'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

sammsky1

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Why aren't the OleOUT crew in here defending Pep's honour?
 

ShoePolish

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Messi was now or never. He has a look of distance and resignation from his team when it doesnt click
Well, he'll still come there next year, IF Ped is still there. But they'll again need a CF, CDM perhaps? LB as neither Mendy nor Zinchenko look convincing, so they are going to need another massive summer. This team got 100 points a season ago, they're probably a de Bruyne injury away from throwing the season away in first half of the season.
 

Maluco

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No need to leave out the cups he won mate. Other clubs would happily include the cups too. Hell, people are still praising Mourinho for winning a League Cup.
That can be included if people wish, but FA Cups, and certainly not League Cups, would have been seen as any real target when he came in. It’s great to win them, but surely they are tokens for a juggernaut like City? They have the actual backing of a small country.

When you spend the money he has, and had the quality he had before he even started spending, domestic cups are a mere consolation.

You don’t get off with League cups after a nearly 600 million NET spend, for me.

The only reason he even won those is because his second string are so vastly superior to any other side in the league.
 

Zen86

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That's the joke.
Another £100m required for the greatest manager ever to be competitive again. Was probably licking his lips at the thought of Messi carrying his team once more.
 

clarkydaz

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Well, he'll still come there next year, IF Ped is still there. But they'll again need a CF, CDM perhaps? LB as neither Mendy nor Zinchenko look convincing, so they are going to need another massive summer. This team got 100 points a season ago, they're probably a de Bruyne injury away from throwing the season away in first half of the season.
true, they would need to buy players for him ontop to play with ( if it did actually happen)
 

cyberman

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Another £100m required for the greatest manager ever to be competitive again. Was probably licking his lips at the thought of Messi carrying his team once more.
100m my balls. He has to replace a lot of what has already been bought and prepare for Fernandinho and Aguero leaving.
For him to overtake Liverpool he might need a 2b spend over his tenure which would be absolutely ridiculous.
 

DoneDaDa

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At this point it's not simply the money they've blown or talent they have it's the setup that needs addressing.
 

Zen86

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That's the joke.
100m my balls. He has to replace a lot of what has already been bought and prepare for Fernandinho and Aguero leaving.
For him to overtake Liverpool he might need a 2b spend over his tenure which would be absolutely ridiculous.
It’s City isn’t it, 100m is the official spend. For every 100m City spend on transfers there’s 2bn in backhanders off the books.
 

SER19

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This guy has spent an eye watering amount. And still is. In his 5th season and getting pummeled at home to Leicester. He's obviously had incredible highs with city too but must be one of the most overrated managers in football
 

Renegade

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Peps coaching causes mental burn out for himself and his teams. He can’t keep that level of intensity long term. I give him 1 more season max before his next sabbatical. I don’t know how anyone can tip them for the league with such confidence. They’re weaker than last season in my opinion. No Sane. No David Silva in the dressing room. Aguero & Fernandinho a year older.
 
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Zen86

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That's the joke.
Peps coaching causes mental burn out for himself and his teams. He can’t kept that level of intensity long term. I give him 1 more season max before his next sabbatical. I don’t know how anyone can top them for the league with such confidence. They’re weaker than last season in my opinion. No Sane. No David Silva in the dressing room. Aguero & Fernandinho a year older.
I like this. Pep is so good, it’s just physically impossible to keep up that level of excellence for longer than a few years. He’s basically coached City’s brains out.
 

Josep Dowling

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The recruitment hasn’t been good enough, simple as that. And this seasons signings have been bizarre to say the least. Ake from a relegated Bournemouth who conceded about 3 goals a week. Sane sold and replaced with Torres, not exactly the same quality.

They will soon have to replace Fernandinho and Aguero. I think they will go for Messi next season which won’t be the answer to their issues.
 

Acheron

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If Messi is really leaving Barcelona next season he then should stay and be given the time to rebuild the team. Having Messi would give him a huge edge but he would still need to address how he defends and try for once to adapt his tactics and set up.
 

AshRK

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He is a fine coach but his image has taken a beating big time. For the first time as a United fan I would say I wouldn't mind him signing a contract extension and continue to regress at city.
 

Fitchett

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I like this. Pep is so good, it’s just physically impossible to keep up that level of excellence for longer than a few years. He’s basically coached City’s brains out.
Agreed. Pep has demanded that his teams perform at such a high level, that it's bound to lead to burn out, both physically and mentally, for him, his players and coaches. The same happened with Mourinho, and I predict (hope) the same will happen with Klopp. Fergie knew how to manage United properly, by pacing a season which was sustainable for himself, players and coaches. We used to win plenty of trophies, but not with record points scores. Fergie was the first to properly use squad rotation, and freshen the squad each summer, to ensure that the squad was up for the challenge each year and dominate in England for 20 years.
 

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It seems like he may be approaching the stage Jose reached during his second stint with Chelsea. Football has moved on and teams are much better at dealing with his style of play.
 

slored1

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I hate Liverpool but Klopp is a much much better manager than Pep and has shown it time and time again. I would argue that even the likes of Zidane and Ancelotti edge him as managers in the past 10 years.
 

Cloud7

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Over the course of his time as a manager Pep has been my favorite manger in world football. It’s been just over a decade now since that year, and that night in Rome.

At some point you do have to wonder if his time at the very top is approaching it’s end. All managers have a finite lifespan at the top, as we all saw with Jose, with Ancelloti, with Vangle, with Wenger etc. One day Pep’s time will come as well.

Is it now? Or is it just that his ideas have run their course at City, as they did during his last season at Barcelona. Their performances now look some distance away from the team that steamrolled the league when he last won it. It will be interesting to see how this season goes for him, and where he is next season. I can’t see City firing him, as who is out there that realistically they can get to follow up on Pep, but whether he chooses to leave and take another sabbatical, who knows?
 

Cheech Wizard

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No, Liverpool signed plenty of shit with Edwards before Klopp arrived. Markovic, Lambert, Balotelli, Iago Aspas, Luis Alberto, Benteke. Or am I wrong? Was that not Edwards?
Edwards was a part of it but not instrumental as now. It was mostly a panel back then, made up of a team of scouts with Rodgers and FSG. The signings post Suarez sale that season were panic buys, Balotelli in particular was because we couldn't sign Sanchez and Rodgers admittedly said "he couldn't turn a player of his quality down". Edwards was promoted to Sporting Director in summer 2016 so was responsible in shifting a lot of them signings out and had more control in transfers in the 16-17 season, which is when it all started to change.
 

2 man midfield

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I don’t think the sky is falling in just yet. He’s certainly not finished.
 

Fox_Chrys

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I think if he gets many more results like this, he will be on shaky ground, of course it would be announced as mutual consent or a resignation, but imagine getting approval for 100s of millions to be spent on defensive players to fix a problem you identified and then it doesn't go away.
 

Rocksy

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He’s become a cheque-book manager and the signings ain’t working. The squad has loads of issues: Only 1 decent defender, a dodgy goalie, Silva gone, Agüero at the end of his career. Klopp has done a much better job than Pep over their time...
 

Samid

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Those shambolic tactics against Lyon was his Jose/Sevilla moment. The demise is well underway. Think he won’t be at City next season after Klopp schools him yet again this season.
 

anant

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Those shambolic tactics against Lyon was his Jose/Sevilla moment. The demise is well underway. Think he won’t be at City next season after Ole schools him yet again this season.
Corrected it for you :)
 

Withnail

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Over the course of his time as a manager Pep has been my favorite manger in world football. It’s been just over a decade now since that year, and that night in Rome.

At some point you do have to wonder if his time at the very top is approaching it’s end. All managers have a finite lifespan at the top, as we all saw with Jose, with Ancelloti, with Vangle, with Wenger etc. One day Pep’s time will come as well.

Is it now? Or is it just that his ideas have run their course at City, as they did during his last season at Barcelona. Their performances now look some distance away from the team that steamrolled the league when he last won it. It will be interesting to see how this season goes for him, and where he is next season. I can’t see City firing him, as who is out there that realistically they can get to follow up on Pep, but whether he chooses to leave and take another sabbatical, who knows?
Those shambolic tactics against Lyon was his Jose/Sevilla moment. The demise is well underway. Think he won’t be at City next season after Klopp schools him yet again this season.
Very interesting article here on managerial shelf life.

The basic premise is that on average managers take around 7–8 years to enter a period where they win the most trophies clustered together, which then lasts another 7–8 years, followed by 11–12 years falling to the periphery, with the occasional burst of brilliance.

It's from June 2018 and at that point Pep showed no signs of stopping but if he finishes this season without a major trophy, which looks likely at this stage, he isn't bucking the trend.

https://medium.com/@databeats/footb...l-phases-and-diminishing-returns-234b41ffe084
 

youngrell

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There's big changes happening at City in terms of players, and they seem to be handling it very badly.

They lost Kompany and looked very poor without him last season, Silva this summer will also be a big miss and Aguero's influence is already diminishing due to injuries/age. These are huge players to be losing, and when the replacements are neither of the same quality or mentality, the only way is down.

It's not too dissimilar to our plight since the end of Rooney, Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic etc.
 

AaronRedDevil

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He’s just buying all the wrong players. Did they even buy a striker? Ageuro is getting on a bit and he was supposed to leave this summer before he decided to stay.
 

Cloud7

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Very interesting article here on managerial shelf life.

The basic premise is that on average managers take around 7–8 years to enter a period where they win the most trophies clustered together, which then lasts another 7–8 years, followed by 11–12 years falling to the periphery, with the occasional burst of brilliance.

It's from June 2018 and at that point Pep showed no signs of stopping but if he finishes this season without a major trophy, which looks likely at this stage, he isn't bucking the trend.

https://medium.com/@databeats/footb...l-phases-and-diminishing-returns-234b41ffe084
It's a bit the same with Mourinho wasn't it? He burst onto the scene in 2004, and was basically untouchable right up until his Madrid stint (I rate his time at Inter as the peak of his career), so that falls into that timeline as well, more or less. There was the last title win at Chelsea but that seemed more like the league being terrible than them being anything outstanding.

It will certainly be interesting to see if this is the season that Pep does indeed begin to fade.

And when I think about things like this it makes it all the more remarkable that Sir Alex managed to stay at the very top for so long. That man really was something else.
 

Stacks

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The premier league has been his biggest challenge yet despite his 2 record breaking seasons. He hasn't been able to perform well in the league and champions league for the 1st time
 

Withnail

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It's a bit the same with Mourinho wasn't it? He burst onto the scene in 2004, and was basically untouchable right up until his Madrid stint (I rate his time at Inter as the peak of his career), so that falls into that timeline as well, more or less. There was the last title win at Chelsea but that seemed more like the league being terrible than them being anything outstanding.

It will certainly be interesting to see if this is the season that Pep does indeed begin to fade.

And when I think about things like this it makes it all the more remarkable that Sir Alex managed to stay at the very top for so long. That man really was something else.
Did you read the article?

Practically all of the big managers fall into this pattern. Fergie's really the only one who had two periods of success, pretty much back to back, although the earlier one was slightly more sucessful so he was able to shoe-horn him into his model.



 

Brwned

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Did you read the article?

Practically all of the big managers fall into this pattern. Fergie's really the only one who had two periods of success, pretty much back to back, although the earlier one was slightly more sucessful so he was able to shoe-horn him into his model.



Looks like it generally fits but disregarding Udo Lattek's 2nd peak, Ernst Happel's first peak, Sir Alex's 2nd peak is a bit iffy! Definitely interesting though.

Guardiola does kind of buck the trend given he didn't have such a long "pre-imperial phase", and it wouldn't surprise me if he didnt have that long a post-imperial phase. He's mentioned multiple times that he burns himself and those around him out, so it wouldn't be surprising if he goes to another team, reaches incredible highs and embarrassing lows once more, then calls it quits.

I'd be delighted if he did that with us starting from next summer, and brought Messi. As long as we got an actual director of football. He clearly needs someone great at choosing his squad additions.
 

diarm

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I see. This "imperial phase" stuff seems way too arbitrary for me, but oh well.
I don't really understand how they've decided who got what Imperial Phase.

Why does Del Bosque have a 13 year phase and Fergie only a 9 year one, when Fergie won more major trophies in his "diminishing returns" phase than Del Bosque did in his entire career? He had a six year gap in the middle of his Imperial Phase without winning any trophy while Fergie never went more than a year. Doesn't make sense to me at all.
 

Withnail

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Looks like it generally fits but disregarding Udo Lattek's 2nd peak, Ernst Happel's first peak, Sir Alex's 2nd peak is a bit iffy! Definitely interesting though.

Guardiola does kind of buck the trend given he didn't have such a long "pre-imperial phase", and it wouldn't surprise me if he didnt have that long a post-imperial phase. He's mentioned multiple times that he burns himself and those around him out, so it wouldn't be surprising if he goes to another team, reaches incredible highs and embarrassing lows once more, then calls it quits.

I'd be delighted if he did that with us starting from next summer, and brought Messi. As long as we got an actual director of football. He clearly needs someone great at choosing his squad additions.
I honestly wouldn't want Pep or an aging Messi. That would just be another poor decision if you ask me. Any future manager/players should be the next big thing rather someone whose powers are likely to be waning.