Indeed, there was clearly a lot of talent about that side and they had been under-performing massively, and so improving on 2007-08 should've been easy for any decent manager - but to go out and win the treble after having the balls to sell a player who'd been considered comfortably the best in the world just a couple of years before was remarkably impressive.
Pep's spending is insane (£941m and counting at City)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I think most who knew of him did. I remember him being 15/16 and the best thing on Championship manager, I remember Ronaldinho being near e peak of his powers yet devoting a 4-4-2 edition to saying how good Messi would become, a better player than him he inferred, this must have been around 05-06, Messi was only 18 at the time and already the best player in the world was saying there was a better player than him in the same squad, it was the most obvious case of a rare talent, from the very very start of his career.
Bookmakers odds on any game are set by the betting patterns, are they not? Only tells you how much money was on each side.
Well, in this particular case, both sides of the debate can be understood to an extent.
Yeah, Barcelona in 2007/08 were humiliated by Real Madrid and actually finished behind Villarreal in La Liga - so they were very far from being an all-conquering force of nature, that's true.
But look at the players used in the 07/08 semi-finals:
At the Camp Nou: Valdes, Zambrotta, Marquez, Milito, Abidal, Xavi, Toure Yaya, Deco (Henry 77), Messi (Bojan 62), Eto'o, Iniesta.
At Old Trafford: Valdes, Zambrotta, Puyol, Milito, Abidal, Toure Yaya (Gudjohnsen 88), Messi, Xavi, Deco, Iniesta (Henry 60), Eto'o (Bojan 72).
That's a freakishly strong group of players - and that is with Ronaldinho injured. I mean Thierry fecking Henry was only a substitute in both games.
I don't think that's true at all - generally I'd say when discussing the football side of this you'd rarely find anyone who doesn't hold him in high regard. His teams don't sucker punch their ways to wins, if they win they usually have thoroughly deserved it.
On the personal side though, he comes across as a bit of a fruit loop and everyone loves a meltdown whether it's Rafa's facts, Keagan's infamous rant or similar. Throw in the fact he talks a lot about Catalan independence but essentially is employed by Qatar, he extravagant touchline personality and just being very outspoken (which is great for football in general) and lots of people, even from outside the usual football crowd, have pretty strong opinions on him
Such a Basil Fawlty reactionPriceless.
Love the way he looks up at the sky at the end as if he is appealing to god.
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He was scoring Maradona goals in 2007, and everyone in the Barca squad acknowledged that he would soon eclipse Ronaldinho; factor in the spine of the Spain Euro 2008 winning team in Puyol, Xavi and Iniesta, plus Eto’o - who’d won the Champions League before and immediately after Pep, Yaya Toure who went on to dominate the Premier League for 5 years, Thierry Henry etc, it completely dispels the myth that he took over a post-nuclear Barcelona, mirroring the current United or AC Milan predicament. It was a squad prepared to win again in the absence of Rijkaard. He also added Dani Alves, who was already a superstar at Sevilla.
They should have been knocked out by Chelsea in the 2009 semi; they got twatted, but the ref almost caused a riot with his countless dubious decisions.
Also worth noting that this was around the time where Spainish midgets suddenly became supreme athletes, and the Fuentes doping scandal.
Exactly - Klopp’s facilitated relegated Robertson and academy midfielder Alexander-Arnold becoming the most influential fullbacks in Europe, for a combined outlay of £8m. That’s a great coach.
Yep. He should have won the titles he has - the fact he’s not taken Bayern or City anywhere near a Champions League final in the past 8 years is underachievement.
He’ll run away from the fact that Klopp’s eclipsed him, and Rogers and Lampard are playing great football, while developing players and competing at the top of the table with a bunch of kids and no City-esque stockpile of £50m squad players.
He’ll go and win some more inevitable titles elsewhere - I don’t think he’ll fancy Juve now that Conte is turning Inter into legit contenders - so likely back to Bayern or PSG, and his fanboys will continue to proclaim him as a genius, when in reality he’s Roberto Martinez with perpetually better resources.
Now compare this to Peps team a year later. Sold Deco, Zambrotta and Ronaldinho brought in Pique, Alves and Busquets
Xavi was about to be sold for being too small to be a midfielder before Pep convinced him to stay
12 months later his lineup in Rome was Valdez Puyol Yaya Pique Sylvinho - Busquets Xavi Iniesta Henry Messi Etoo.
A year later Henry, Gudjonsen, Sylvinho and Etoo were gone
Peps Barcelona not only won, they played a brand of football that even defeated opponents said they have never seen this type of football ever. They didn't sucker punch opponents to win, they totally dominated and left the best players chasing shadows for 90mins
Bayern played Peps Barca and after the game, The Bayern FO said they wanted a team playing like this in Munich
After the 2011 CL final Fergie said this was the best team he ever faced in his entire career
Kalle, Hoeness and Ferguson are people who have been involved in football for half a century and have seen many matches. They are not ones to be easily impressed
Nobody thought any player would be the goal scoring machine that he became, 90 goals in a season etc. Maybe status wise but feck me nobody could expect that. Ronaldo won the CL in 08 and even then nobody saw how he could kick on ffs!
Even if there were mystic megs about, it kind of kills the idea he had a massive job on when he had Messi and the spine of the Euros winning Spain squad plus the spine of the side that won the CL two seasons ago!
Of course. No one is claiming Pep won the treble with a bunch of nobodies and that his achievement was better than, say, Mourinho achieving the same feat with Inter Milan. It's the idea that Pep was basically irrelevant to Barcelona's success as the players were so good that the achievements were inevitable whoever inherited the team. Anyone who watched Barca under Pep would have to be blind to not see his imprint in the team and the influence he had. Yes, they had immense players, but it was Pep who implemented a system that unleashed their full potential. Even players who despise him like Ibrahimovic do not deny his qualities as a coach. There are a myriad of instances of richly talented squads failing to achieve success commensurate with their abilities. People are welcome to downplay Guardiola's success at Barcelona but it's silly when people try and write out his role altogether.
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So Figo's ex will be selling Mendy and Jesus and buying five new shiny and expensive toys.
So first point....What if he was Figo's ex? Is there a problem with that?
And selling and buying....Isn't that what all clubs do? Should City not be allowed to do the same?
Poor Pep needs 3 quality players in every position.
What’s this ‘Figo’s ex’ shit about?
Figo and Guardiola were in a close relationship, living together.
Sounds like Pep is being ostracized for being bald and living with a guy, welcome to 2020 Redcafe.
He also loves shopping and has a fancy accent.
Not as fancy as the french accent JP.
Er, that’s it?!
Who the feck said it's a problem that he's Figo's ex? Stop getting offended for no particular reason.
Here's an article from Marca regarding Pep's spending. It is as the OP says insane!
8/8/2019
It's at City where he's spent the most. Since arriving in 2016 he's spent more than twice what he did at either Bayern Munich or Barcelona. City's spend in his time is 762.3 million euros, Barcelona's was 341.5 million euros and Bayern's 204.1 million euros.
Man. City 2019/20 --> Rodri Hernandez (70 million euros)
Man. City 2019/20 --> Joao Cancelo (65 million euros)
Man. City 2019/20 --> Zack Steffen (8 million euros)
Man. City 2019/20 --> Angelino (12 million euros)
Man. City 2018/19 --> Riyad Mahrez (67.8 million euros)
Man. City 2018/19 --> Philippe Sandler (2.5 million euros)
Man. City 2018/19 --> Daniel Arzani (0.8 million euros)
Man. City 2018/19 --> Ante Palaversa (6.3 million euros)
Man. City 2018/19 --> Ko Itakura (1.1 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Aymeric Laporte (65 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Benjamin Mendy (57.5 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Kyle Walker (51 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Bernardo Silva (50 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Ederson (40 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Danilo (30 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Douglas Luiz (12 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Jack Harrison (4 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Olarenwaju Kayode (3.8 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Ivan Ilic (2.5 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> John Stones (55.6 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Leroy Sane (50 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Gabriel Jesus (32 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Ilkay Gundogan (27 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Nolito (18 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Claudio Bravo (18 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Marlos Moreno (5.5 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Geronimo Rulli (4.7 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Oleksandr Zinchenko (2 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Pablo Mari (0.2 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Aaron Mooy (free)
Source:
https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2019/08/08/5d4c15b8268e3e99568b45db.html
8/8/2019
It's at City where he's spent the most. Since arriving in 2016 he's spent more than twice what he did at either Bayern Munich or Barcelona. City's spend in his time is 762.3 million euros, Barcelona's was 341.5 million euros and Bayern's 204.1 million euros.
Man. City 2019/20 --> Rodri Hernandez (70 million euros)
Man. City 2019/20 --> Joao Cancelo (65 million euros)
Man. City 2019/20 --> Zack Steffen (8 million euros)
Man. City 2019/20 --> Angelino (12 million euros)
Man. City 2018/19 --> Riyad Mahrez (67.8 million euros)
Man. City 2018/19 --> Philippe Sandler (2.5 million euros)
Man. City 2018/19 --> Daniel Arzani (0.8 million euros)
Man. City 2018/19 --> Ante Palaversa (6.3 million euros)
Man. City 2018/19 --> Ko Itakura (1.1 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Aymeric Laporte (65 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Benjamin Mendy (57.5 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Kyle Walker (51 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Bernardo Silva (50 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Ederson (40 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Danilo (30 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Douglas Luiz (12 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Jack Harrison (4 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Olarenwaju Kayode (3.8 million euros)
Man. City 2017/18 --> Ivan Ilic (2.5 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> John Stones (55.6 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Leroy Sane (50 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Gabriel Jesus (32 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Ilkay Gundogan (27 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Nolito (18 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Claudio Bravo (18 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Marlos Moreno (5.5 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Geronimo Rulli (4.7 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Oleksandr Zinchenko (2 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Pablo Mari (0.2 million euros)
Man. City 2016/17 --> Aaron Mooy (free)
Source:
https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2019/08/08/5d4c15b8268e3e99568b45db.html
Whilst I know in terms of inflation SAF is up there it’s kind of crazy to think that he had a net spend of 711 million in his 27 year tenure which is equal to Guardiolas 4.
Shows how crazy the transfer market has gone.
The Stones and Cancelo money is pretty crazy. He has not really spent the money that well.
The key players are from before his time in general. Sterling, De Bruyne, Aguero, Fernandinho and maybe David Silva.
Ederson and Laporte has been great buys though, but all others have been more hit and miss. Jesus, Mahrez, B Silva and Walker I guess are good buys, but they are not fully convincing.
wow I didn't realise he has gone through that many players
22 points behind after spending £800m in 4 seasons. Genius.
2 titles and dont know how many cups is not bad in 4 seasons.
Poch will be city manager at the start of next season.
Either he'll escape to PSG or Juve next season or they'll spend 300m in summer and he'll win the league again.
Pellegrini or Mancini would have achieved that too with 800m extra to spend, no?
He'll need to make some superb signings to get them back on track.
Not sure he has the fight in him.
You cant possibly know what would've happened. Or you are Dumbstardamus?
It's not like they need to rebuild their entire squad. They've already started making moves by shipping out dross like Angelino, for instance. It's more of a motivational issue.
Also you can’t just buy any player you want. I think a rebuild will be difficult for him. He’ll do next season then leave imo.
800m to spend on just players? I don't think you have to be a genius to guess what might happen.
I smell a sabbatical.
Lets not forget the suspiciously kind and absurd cup draws they’ve been getting in that time.
Our dealings post Ferguson are precisely the proof you need that just spending is not enough.
Isn't United's net spend now bigger than City's since the 'Guardiola' era after the Fernandes deal? So, not sure if this should be the biggest take on it...
He has to rebuild their terrible defense.
If Real Madrid smash them things could turn ugly as the domestic cups wont gloss over this season.
If Real Madrid smash them things could turn ugly as the domestic cups wont gloss over this season.
In fairness, any team would miss their absolutely stand out main defender for 6 months!
Well he spent around 670m pounds no sure where the 800 is coming from unless you go by dollar value. Second Mancini and Pelle did spend a lot they spent in an era where they got Aguero for 30M and Silva for 20M.