Per Simon Stone: Our net spent is more than other European club in the last three years

[hobbers]

He's basically done that though. He's got us from out of the wilderness where we were deathly afraid of any half decent team towards the end of Jose's reign

We weren't actually anywhere near the wilderness though. Or deathly afraid of decent teams. Jose had his obligatory implosion and that led to bad results for 3 months. His time was up, but it didn't mean the squad suddenly plummeted in quality. We finished second with 81 points 6 months before Ole got on the job....

Ole hasn't brought us back to even that point yet.

 

[LoneStar]

I don't understand how a club with finances like this can't hire some competent people who can get value for selling our players. Or a decent scouting department.

 

[Strelok]

It wasn't a myth. Backing can't be measured purely by how much money spent.

Oles wanted certain players and United supplied him with ones he didn't want VDB for example.

If I'm your investor and your business is delivering parcels. Your van broke down and needs replacing.

You tell me you need a new van it's going to cost 20k. So i go out and buy you a ford fiesta that costs 20k.

In this scenario did I back you? Did I supply what you needed? I spent the money on a different vehicle, so I must have backed you, right?

It's been the same for Ole, Jose & lvg. Yes money was spent, but not on the players they wanted & needed. They needed a van but was bought a fiesta instead.

Last summer transfer window we needed a CB, RW and DM. At the end of the summer transfer window we needed a CB, RW and DM.

We ended up with a panic buy Cavani (thankfully it worked out) VDB who Ole didn't want, a backup LB and 2 youngsters in which one went out on loan and one who we couldn't use until the January window and even then wasn't ready for regular first team action.


Yes a lot of money has been spent by United but the managers since Sir Alex weren't getting the players they wanted.

Bang on, til this very moment we still don't know what VDB is good at except back passing.

However if we buy Varane and a quality midfield I'd say Ole has been backed this summer. If he still doesn't deliver some silverware, even minor we should start to look for a replacement.

But before that imo we should put in place a good structure at the top first. A true DOF or a sporting director, a quality one. Then a board full of football people before starting chopping and changing managers. With our current structure changing managers basically means do it all over again. Guess we've had more than enough lesson learnt from LVG and Mourinho.

 

[elmo]

It wasn't a myth. Backing can't be measured purely by how much money spent.

Oles wanted certain players and United supplied him with ones he didn't want VDB for example.

If I'm your investor and your business is delivering parcels. Your van broke down and needs replacing.

You tell me you need a new van it's going to cost 20k. So i go out and buy you a ford fiesta that costs 20k.

In this scenario did I back you? Did I supply what you needed? I spent the money on a different vehicle, so I must have backed you, right?

It's been the same for Ole, Jose & lvg. Yes money was spent, but not on the players they wanted & needed. They needed a van but was bought a fiesta instead.

Last summer transfer window we needed a CB, RW and DM. At the end of the summer transfer window we needed a CB, RW and DM.

We ended up with a panic buy Cavani (thankfully it worked out) VDB who Ole didn't want, a backup LB and 2 youngsters in which one went out on loan and one who we couldn't use until the January window and even then wasn't ready for regular first team action.


Yes a lot of money has been spent by United but the managers since Sir Alex weren't getting the players they wanted.

VDB had a choice to sign for us or not and if Ole was upfront with him about VDB not being in his plans and didn't lie and said he would play a big role in the team, VDB would have most likely rejected the deal.

And giving Ole absolvence of all blame is ridiculous when he has consistently said he has input on players signing and has veto rights.

 

[snk123]

VDB is a quality player. The analogy you used is off because VDB is a top player that if utilized properly could be a great asset to our team.

Based on what exactly? I hope VDB proves me wrong but the fact that some people still believe in the VDB (a slightly better cleverly) hype is another reason why we should have gotten rid this summer. As it stands, he's going to be awful for another year and then we'll end up selling him for 7m.

That, right there is our problem. Not offloading players at the right time.

 

[hobbers]

Yes a lot of money has been spent by United but the managers since Sir Alex weren't getting the players they wanted.

That's clearly not true at all though is it.

Almost every signing we have made under Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Ole has been manager-directed, bar a handful that were effectively scouting department signings - Shaw, Herrera, Fred, VDB and Martial. Mourinho was offered Fred and said yes, that's on him. Ole was offered VdB and said yes, that's on him too. The deals for Shaw and Herrera were in the pipeline before LVG took over but he probably could have vetoed them as well if he wanted. The scouting department really came through for LVG with those two and Martial, they were by miles the best signings under his tenure.

The only signings we have made that were "Woodward signings", or vanity signings, were Mata, Falcao and Sanchez. Sanchez was a ridiculous wage packet but given he was one of the best players in the league for the previous two seasons, I think it's safe to assume bringing him in wasn't against Jose's wishes either. Mata was signed for Moyes' replacement rather than for Moyes himself, he was already doomed by then from the boards point of view.

All the other unsuccessful signings were players the managers asked for. Di Maria, Depay, Rojo, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Darmian - all on LVG. Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Matic, Lukaku, Dalot - all on Mourinho. Dan James - very much an Ole signing. That also goes for signings that the jury is still out for like Bailly, Lindelof and AWB.

 

[elmo]

Based on what exactly? I hope VDB proves me wrong but the fact that some people still believe in the VDB (a slightly better cleverly) hype is another reason why we should have gotten rid this summer. As it stands, he's going to be awful for another year and then we'll end up selling him for 7m.

That, right there is our problem. Not offloading players at the right time.

He was starting for an Ajax team that made it further than we ever did in the CL under Ole.

Ever since Sir Alex left, we've just bought in players without ever playing them to their best and it's why we constantly look like we always need new and better players.

 

[POF]

While I am Ole in and feel like he gets a awful time, you make it sound better by saying European final instead of losing to a average Spainish side called Villarreal and going out of the CL in the group stage too Leipzig

There's context in everything and ups and downs throughout the season but you need to look at the bigger picture. That's how their season finished. 2nd in the EPL and lost a European final on penalties. If you pick out the Villarreal and Leipzig games, you can equally pick out the positive results.

There's always context applied to belittle Ole but not to support him.

United finished above the "best team in EPL history TM" but it doesn't count because Van Dijk got injured.

United had the craziest fixture list of any team in football last season. By extra time in the final they were knackered and players were playing through injuries. Oh and their captain and best centre back was out too. But is there context to that? Nope, they lost to a shit Villarreal team.

People quote how much has been spent under Ole, the net spend. Prior to this summer he's got 3 first team players (Maguire, Bruno, Wan Bissaka) and a free transfer that is way past his best but still first choice striker. That United spent massively over the odds on those players or paid big money for kids to play in the u23s or go on loan doesn't mean Ole should do better.

No context there either.

Ole inherited a squad in turmoil going nowhere and the agreed mandate was to gut the squad, bring in younger players and instill a better culture. Despite average work in the transfer market there has been progress every season no matter how you look at it.

It's a young inconsistent squad and performances will go up and down. The leadership in the squad is still lacking but you can see it building. The progress may not be fast enough for some people but it's clearly there.

 

[Tarrou]

oh great we haven't had a thread shitting on our manager and the club for a while

 

[Ole's screen]

We weren't actually anywhere near the wilderness though. Or deathly afraid of decent teams. Jose had his obligatory implosion and that led to bad results for 3 months. His time was up, but it didn't mean the squad suddenly plummeted in quality. We finished second with 81 points 6 months before Ole got on the job....

Ole hasn't brought us back to even that point yet.

You can't cherry pick 1 season where we did well in the league and forget the seasons around them where we finished 6th and were 9th when he was fired. We were much closer to the 6th best team than the first and yes we were deathly afraid of any big teams. I still dread to think of the Liverpool, City, Chelsea games where we almost refused to even play the ball and didn't even try to attack. In contrast Ole has us playing much more confidently against good teams and more attractive and free scoring football against mid to low table teams.

Also points totals across seasons mean nothing. Our team both of the last two seasons shits all over the 81 point 2nd finishing team. We're much better at playing out from the back, much better at pressing, much more hard working, and much better at creating chances and finishing them.
Both of Ole's seasons I enjoyed the seasons more and I enjoyed the football more too.

 

[hasanejaz88]

I find it stupid to judge a team by including a signing that hasn't even played.

That being said, Ole does need to show a bit more ambition this season considering we have made a massive improvement in the team with Sancho. Not saying a title is compulsory, but challenge for major trophies and at least no nonsense comments to deflect pressure saying titles are overrated.

 

[hobbers]

You can't cherry pick 1 season where we did well in the league and forget the seasons around them where we finished 6th and were 9th when he was fired. We were much closer to the 6th best team than the first and yes we were deathly afraid of any big teams. I still dread to think of the Liverpool, City, Chelsea games where we almost refused to even play the ball and didn't even try to attack. In contrast Ole has us playing much more confidently against good teams and more attractive and free scoring football against mid to low table teams.

Of course you can cherry pick an entire season. Liverpool demolished the league in 19/20 and were sub-top four for most of last season. Are they suddenly a sub-top four side in terms of quality? They imploded due to injuries, we imploded due to Jose pissing everyone off and giving up on the job.

As for not trying to attack... I take it you didn't see our games against Chelsea or Arsenal last season then? 0 goals scored, barely a single clear cut chance created across all 4 games. We weren't exactly sparkling against Liverpool, Spurs or Leicester either.... far worse performances and results against the big sides of either of Jose's non-implosion seasons.

Also points totals across seasons mean nothing. Our team both of the last two seasons shits all over the 81 point 2nd finishing team. We're much better at playing out from the back, much better at pressing, much more hard working, and much better at creating chances and finishing them.

Points totals mean a lot. That's why they're the metric that decides who wins the title.

You can say we're much better at anything you like but that's just one opinion. I wouldn't bet on the stats for ground covered or pressing performance actually showing any improvement. We're better getting bodies forward and creating chances against the weaker sides, but then we're also much worse defensively and abysmal at set pieces.

 

[predator]

We've spent a shit load of money on transfer fees and wages and that's why I find it laughable when our fanbase try and say city / pep are buying everyone out and that we can't compete with the likes of psg, Chelsea and City.


The glazers get a lot of stick but I have thought for a while now that they rightfully should be frustrated at the fact that we have spent an absolute fortune, and have little to show for it, whereas FSG have somehow won the PL and the EC whilst spending alot less.


Before oil money started we were breaking records left right and centre for players and still are.

There seems to be a holier than thou attitude from united fans (on this forum especially).

When we signed the likes of rio, veron, Rooney, I can't even remember who city or Chelsea signed.

 

[Idxomer]

Also points totals across seasons mean nothing. Our team both of the last two seasons shits all over the 81 point 2nd finishing team. We're much better at playing out from the back, much better at pressing, much more hard working, and much better at creating chances and finishing them.
Both of Ole's seasons I enjoyed the seasons more and I enjoyed the football more too

It obviously means something when people claim this is a much better squad and team than the previous one. We may be playing more of the back but it looks to me more of a personnel change than anything else, we aren't really efficient in that aspect and our build-up is very slow. The stats don't support any of these arguments about chance creation, even our possession stats are very similar to the ones under Mourinho.

 

[ivaldo]

If we spend so much, we should be competing for the highest honors and not just Mickey Mouse cup. It is good that we are spending, but it is bad we are not competing at the same level as other clubs who spend so much as well

Correct. We've spent £75m on Sancho and where has that got us? The blokes a fraud.

 

[Lentwood]

I constantly have this argument with a mate of mine who I used to go to OT with.

I'm not interested in defending the Glazers but the idea we haven't spent money is laughable .

It is a FACT that the Glazers cut costs between 2005 and 2010. However, since the PIK loans were rescheduled, we have been amongst the top two or three net spenders in world football for a decade. As we should be, to be fair.

As other posters have pointed out, sometimes it doesn't feel like we spend as much as Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barcelona etc...but because we are so bad at selling players, it's literally the case that every Pound we spend has to be generated by commercial revenue and there's no bottomless pit of cash unfortunately.

 

[11101]

I couldn't care less. We earned that money, we can spend it.

It's time for Ole to show some progress now though. He's had a couple of years to get the players he wants and instill his vision in the club, now its time to start challenging for trophies. This is the last season where we can say its a work in progress.

 

[Polar]

I’m not complaining about his backing, but Liverpool and City showwhat it takes to fight for the PL/CL trophy.

Pep spent £532m his two first seasons. Kloop spent £356m the two seasons before winning PL.

Ole spent £319m, but we also have to take into consideration everyone agree the condition of our squad wasn’t very good.

 

[Adisa]

All this is noise. This is a make or break season for him.

 

[POF]

All this is noise. This is a make or break season for him.

When you're Manchester United manager, every season is make or break. If you're not the best man for the job you won't get to do it any more.

 

[11101]

We've spent a shit load of money on transfer fees and wages and that's why I find it laughable when our fanbase try and say city / pep are buying everyone out and that we can't compete with the likes of psg, Chelsea and City.


The glazers get a lot of stick but I have thought for a while now that they rightfully should be frustrated at the fact that we have spent an absolute fortune, and have little to show for it, whereas FSG have somehow won the PL and the EC whilst spending alot less.


Before oil money started we were breaking records left right and centre for players and still are.

There seems to be a holier than thou attitude from united fans (on this forum especially).

When we signed the likes of rio, veron, Rooney, I can't even remember who city or Chelsea signed.

This one is simple. We earn a certain amount so we can spend a certain amount. If we make 500m we know we can spend 400m on players, but those players need to contribute towards making 500m the next year too. We have to make sure the money keeps coming in. If we have a bad year player recruitment suffers.

For City, PSG and Chelsea it doesn't matter what they make, what they spend, or what value the player brings. Its all just lip service. They're just as happy to consign a player to the scrapheap after a month as they are to make them the face of the club.

It's like running a business as normal but knowing there's a bottomless pit available to bail you out if you get it wrong. It changes everything.

 

[Polar]

All this is noise. This is a make or break season for him.

Agree, but I expect many different opinions what a make or break season is

 

[led_scholes]

If we buy Varane too, people will still find excuses that we need to spend 3 billions more. Truth is this is a make it or break it season for Ole. Even if he is here by the end of the season, i dont think he will be backed for another -it will be his fourth- summer.

 

[Adisa]

When you're Manchester United manager, every season is make or break. If you're not the best man for the job you won't get to do it any more.

And also in terms of excuses. There's no where to hide this season. We have to challenge.
I am tired of the debate about whether he's good enough. It has to end this season.

 

[predator]

This one is simple. We earn a certain amount so we can spend a certain amount. If we make 500m we know we can spend 400m on players, but those players need to contribute towards making 500m the next year too. We have to make sure the money keeps coming in. If we have a bad year player recruitment suffers.

For City, PSG and Chelsea it doesn't matter what they make, what they spend, or what value the player brings. Its all just lip service. They're just as happy to consign a player to the scrapheap after a month as they are to make them the face of the club.

It's like running a business as normal but knowing there's a bottomless pit available to bail you out if you get it wrong. It changes everything.

City were fighting for a place in the Premier league when we signed rio for 30 million, iirc.

I am friends with alot of City fans and never in their wildest dreams would they have expected to be competing with us financially. Even so we are spending more on players, agent fees, wages than them and have nothing to show for it.

Let's just cut the bullshit and admit we have spent a fortune. City, Chelsea and even psg have spent loads but at least they have won things.

Our owners have gave the board money to break the world transfer fee for pogba (who I used to watch at moss Lane a decade ago) and have allowed us to pay alexis sanchez the highest wages on pl history.

Basically we have spent a fortune, just like city, psg and lesser so Madrid and barca yet we haven't been successfull. The glazers are so fecking annoying but they have spent money

 

[crossy1686]

I always find it weird that people use the "he's spent x amount, more than any other manager ever!". It's a sellers market, Solskajer and United don't set player price.

It's like going to buy a house, I'm sure you'd rather have the £6k mortgage your grandparents got but the reality is you're paying over £200k and if you don't, you're going homeless.

 

[Sultan]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I believe we can confirm that it is a myth that Ole has not been back and our board is not providing the resources he needs. This upcoming season, I believe the pressure will be high on Ole. Will it be acceptable if we end this season like last season? Is that enough to keep Ole in charge?

We have what it takes to win a Mickey mouse trophy and compete at the highest level. Will this be the season where United can return back to glory?

It's simple!

If correct and saleable players were purchased by the previous managers/Woodward/scouts then the net spend would not have been so high. So the narrative and cheap shots towards Ole on net spend are unfair and hardly justifiable.

 

[Leftback99]

We've spent £15m more than Villa in that time so we should be slightly better than them.

 

[11101]

City were fighting for a place in the Premier league when we signed rio for 30 million, iirc.

I am friends with alot of City fans and never in their wildest dreams would they have expected to be competing with us financially. Even so we are spending more on players, agent fees, wages than them and have nothing to show for it.

Let's just cut the bullshit and admit we have spent a fortune. City, Chelsea and even psg have spent loads but at least they have won things.

Our owners have gave the board money to break the world transfer fee for pogba (who I used to watch at moss Lane a decade ago) and have allowed us to pay alexis sanchez the highest wages on pl history.

Basically we have spent a fortune, just like city, psg and lesser so Madrid and barca yet we haven't been successfull. The glazers are so fecking annoying but they have spent money

Nobody is saying we don't spend.

What people take issue with is that we generate the money we spend from commercial ventures. City, PSG and Chelsea don't.

You see the difference in how we go about player recruitment. We spend big on big players who we need to replace poor players in important positions all over the pitch. If we get it wrong we have to live with that player.

City spend big on players just because they can, where they often don't need them, and they already have good players in the same positions. Look how many fullbacks and attacking midfielders they have bought recently. If one doesn't work out so what, they buy another in the next window. We can't do that.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Fans can say what they like about the Glazers but the facts are we have practically outspent the entirety of Europe except City and PSG since Fergie retired. We have bought badly, had the wrong managers, mis-managed at board level and grossly underperformed on the pitch.

With the money we have spent we should be competing for the major trophies and winning something. No more excuses. At least there seems to be some direction in the transfer market these days, which we can certainly thank Ole for. Still question marks if he can actually win us trophies on the pitch though.

 

[tomaldinho1]

He is a top quality player, but if Ole doesn't want him or rate him, he's not the right player to buy.

If you back your manager, you give him what he wants. If you give him something else regardless of how good he is then that's not backing your manager, that's forcing a player onto him

Ole convinced him to join.

This whole false narrative is so tiresome now. We know how the club works, we have a transfer committee and Ole has final say. Read the Athletic article on the transfer, look at comments by both Ole and Donny. If you want to live in some world where players who work out are Ole’s choice and those who don’t aren’t, go ahead, but it’s not reality.

 

[Jeppers7]

What a pathetic tweet. What’s the point in that at all, at this moment in time.

 

[dove]

Yea we suck at selling but why does it matter? We still spend a lot of money and that narrative that manager X has not been backed is a complete BS used to justify their failures. Spending money has never been a problem since SAF retired. It's extremely unfortunate seeing talented squads always underperform because of clueless/outdated managers we have. 4 years without a single trophy and only 1 cup final should never ever be accepted here but it somehow is...

 

[Strelok]

If we buy Varane too, people will still find excuses that we need to spend 3 billions more. Truth is this is a make it or break it season for Ole. Even if he is here by the end of the season, i dont think he will be backed for another -it will be his fourth- summer.

Nah unless he drop out of top 4 he'll stay. The club won't sack him just because he doesn't win the title or CL etc. Sacking cost money too. And we'll continue to back him. I don't think we're that ambitious to sack a coach because he doesn't win the league. But I also don't think we're that dumb to stop chasing after spending so much and still going on the right trajectory.

It's not a make or break season or any sort of that dumb shit for Ole, for the fans maybe. For Ole it's just another season, surely he would want to win things, but not something that dramatic.

 

[POF]

And also in terms of excuses. There's no where to hide this season. We have to challenge.
I am tired of the debate about whether he's good enough. It has to end this season.

It won't end. The PE teacher will never be good enough, even if he wins 3 leagues in a row.

You can control process, you can't always control results. If the club thinks Ole is the best man for the job, he'll stay no matter what happens.

How do you define a challenge? How close do they need to be to the top?

The whole "he needs to win a trophy or he's out" stuff is nonsense. In knockout football the margin between success and failure is tiny. If one of the first 10 Villarreal players missed he'd have won a trophy last season.

3 years into a rebuilding project. If Villarreal are crap at penalties Ole is the man for the job. If they're good at them, he's out.

 

[charlenefan]

I don't think some like to remember how bad our team was when Ole got here, arguably the only positions he didn't need to worry about when he got here was GK (though this quickly changed), LW and CF (and he quickly decided Lukaku wasn't for him)

He needed 2 new CB's as the 4 we had were no good (2 always injured plus Smalling and Lindelof the latter who he has had to persist with), he needed a RB as his options there were Valencia and Young, midfield wasn't looking great with Herrera on his way out, Fred struggling and McTominay still on the periphery, Pogba was our only creative player and lastly he needed a right winger

Ole's done great bringing Shaw back from the dead, he's given Fred the opportunity to show his worth, likewise McTominay and he's brought through Greenwood but of the 6 players he needed though we've only just yesterday got him the 4th (Maguire, AWB, Bruno and now Sancho) and so given we can't judge next season because it hasn't started you can say with absolute certainty thus far Ole has been backed 50% of the way. He's been given half the players he needed when he started 2 and a half years ago

Hard to compete against the likes of Liverpool when Klopp says I need a GK, CB and DM and his board goes and gets him all 3 (plus Salah for good measure). Hard to compete with City given they were already streets ahead of us and Pep gets whatever he wants (what was it last summer? 90m worth of CB's on top of Stones and Laporte who were already there?)

If Varane gets over the line and Pogba stays/is replaced adequately only then can you really say Ole's been given 90% of the tools he's asked for (because realistically you're never going to get everything you want)

 

[Siorac]

were 9th when he was fired.

Sacking Mourinho absolutely had to be done but we were 6th at the time, not 9th.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I believe we can confirm that it is a myth that Ole has not been back and our board is not providing the resources he needs. This upcoming season, I believe the pressure will be high on Ole. Will it be acceptable if we end this season like last season? Is that enough to keep Ole in charge?

We have what it takes to win a Mickey mouse trophy and compete at the highest level. Will this be the season where United can return back to glory?

Yes because the board can't sell players for a good price, Ole is to blame for our high net spend.

How quickly people forget that Ole has had to do a rebuild.

Also we had years of under investment until 2013, followed by years of mismanagement, so are playing catchup if we want to compete.

 

[GaryLifo]

I think Ole will still be in his job as long a we get top four and he keeps developing the behind the scenes cultural stuff where he's been encouraging the bringing back of specific people as backroom staff who have experienced United under Ferguson.

The youth side of things has been massively improved after nearly going to the dogs under LVG and Jose. I think the long term plan is to try and produce a significant number of first team players from within, as is our tradition.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I believe we can confirm that it is a myth that Ole has not been back and our board is not providing the resources he needs. This upcoming season, I believe the pressure will be high on Ole. Will it be acceptable if we end this season like last season? Is that enough to keep Ole in charge?

We have what it takes to win a Mickey mouse trophy and compete at the highest level. Will this be the season where United can return back to glory?

Also I notice he tweets this before City have splurged the cash on Kane or Grealish. I wonder if he will revise this afterwards...

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I think we can guess which has been attending the City journalist PR events. Sportswashing enabler.