I can't find any links but i do remember us being linked with Baines when he was at Wigan. Though i don't know if there was anything of substance in it or it was just tabloid bullshit.
Peter Schmeichel: United regret we didn't give David Moyes more time
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
Yeah mate i'm just making it up.
Yeah but Keane wanted to/wants to deck everybody
At no time before, during or after his spell at Old Trafford did Moyes look like a United-level manager. That does not mean he is a clown but I don’t understand why the issue of “more time for Moyes” is even worthy of debate.
He hasn't helped himself with some of his comments since he left admittedly, but I can understand his bitterness, and we've reached Déjà vu so i'm outta here....
I'm not sure i do to be honest. He was given a shot and blew it, sadly for managers thats how football is these days.
Tbf Sunderland was a mulligan but I've heard from inside the Sociedad camp that players were not happy about his training and general communication. Whatever he did at Everton must have involved good communication and relationship with players which he hasn't managed at other clubs.
Not the greatest link/source but we'd agreed a £6m fee with NewCastle United for Mikaël Silvestre and had lined up Baines as his replacement, but at the 11th hour Silvestre decided to stay so the Baines transfer was put on the back-burner, and when he later moved to Everton United refused to match the transfer fee, something SAF later admitted was a mistake.
https://wigan.vitalfootball.co.uk/baines-to-old-trafford/
Clearly.
Clearly my arse, just because you can't remember it doesn't mean it didn't happen, you do know that don't you ?
Can’t erase that unfortunately, it was the game that ended up costing the league title
That was 8% of their premier league goals scored that season in that one match. In 05/06 his Everton side scored 34 pl goals, that is beyond shit. He should have never been in contention for the job, he had nothing going for him
Apart from the backing of probably the greatest Manager the game has ever seen.
ps. They scored 10 of those 34 goals in March, not a lot of people know that....
It wasn't his mistake to make. Someone else hired Moyes.
I saw the discussion, and Pete withstood a constant flow of agenda driven drivel from the mouth of Keys and dealt it quite well. Keys was ranting like a senile old fart about the new and terrible generation of football and how they get rid of his favourite managers like Jose and how sad that is, and it was a little pathetic to be honest. So yeah, he dealt with all of that stuff well and answered pretty intelligently.
However I complete disagree with this comments that A) All Ole had to do was SMILE which is absurd and a rhetoric that has somehow caught wind, and B) that Moyes should have been given more time.
However I complete disagree with this comments that A) All Ole had to do was SMILE which is absurd and a rhetoric that has somehow caught wind, and B) that Moyes should have been given more time.
There was no other choice. He had managed to upset the senior players in the squad and once that happens you hit the point of no return. You either replace everyone and buy a new squad or the manager goes. It’s usually the manager goes which is why Mourinho is a genius at getting sacked because when he knows times up he’ll pick public fights with a Casillas, Hazard and Pogba knowing that he’d be the gone.
I remember too we were heavily linked with Baines during his time at Wigan and Everton.....he was very very good for 2-3 years.
I lived in Munich for few months and at this time Bayern Munich were very interested in Baines too (Former Director of Football Christian Nerlinger was at the Etihad to watch him) therefore my Bayern Munich fans friends have asked me about him.
Just my opinion but maybe Baines was always happy to be at a club like Everton....not so much pressure and he would play nearly every game (Ben Foster says "Hello").
Moyes was surely not the boards or Ferguson's 1st/2nd/3rd choice but he had his part in that decision.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/22453802
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...97/United-wanted-Guardiola-and-not-Moyes.html
I know his role in advising, but other people were in charge of United and made the decision to do it.
If anyone should have gotten more time I think it should be LVG. Not saying I enjoyed that spell either, but rather LVG than Moyes.
His football was worse than Moyes though. Better results but so dull. I remember falling asleep midway through most of the matches.
Yes of course! But he was probably the person with the most football/coaching knowledge during that decision therefore he should have seen that Moyes was never good for Manchester United or any top club.
I read stories after he left he wasn't too popular at Everton either with a lot of the players, certainly not with the club staff who thought he was aloof and generally unhelpful. They called his office the bunker or something, he moved it as far away from everyone else as he could to be unapproachable.
But as i said whether thats true or not he did well there, but just can't replicate it. I don't know if the United job broke him, football has passed his method by or the Everton was a perfect storm. Could be a combination of all 3.
I can believe that. At Sociedad that's the exact same thing I've heard. Not to take away from his Everton side but it's going to be hard seeing him replicate that anywhere now as he just wouldn't get the time that he apparently needs to function.
I think the British media wanted a great white hope and Moyes was the best available (given Redknapp was pushing 60 at the time). Moyes did a solid job at Everton but nothing to suggest he was destined for greatness.
Lucky he wasn’t sacked at the beginning of that season 1 goal and 7 defeats in the first 8 games.
Out of interest why do you think he deserved more time?
I read similar rumours out of United after his sacking and read the Sociedad one too. So clearly he's not a people person.
Yeah the protection he was given by the media during his time at United and since has been unreal.
I don't believe any of those stories about Guardiola being 1st choice. Ferguson never came out with that stuff until after the Moyes project went tits up, the great man was no doubt a bit embarrassed and it was an attempt to save face.
When Ferguson recalled in his book how he met and had lunch with Pep in New York in late 2012 and asked him to keep him informed of his career move he also said at that time he hadn't even made the decision to retire yet so he couldn't have been offering him the United job.
It says as much in the article he's just spinning the incident differently than he did in his book.
I genuinely believe Moyes was Fergusons 1st choice from the beginning.
Sociedad thing isn't even a rumour. A player of his told me this shortly after his sack. There was just nothing going on with him, you couldn't talk to him and his training was slow, outdated and miserable. No one liked him there.
You heard it first hand mate fair enough, all i had heard was stuff in the media. I heard the club were not happy with him either apparently frustrated that he made little effort beyond one lesson per week to learn Spanish. Preferring to spend his time wandering around the town most nights and eating in restaurants, basically treating it like a paid holiday.
Why in the name of feck would you highlighting a season that happened 8(eight) (1,2,3,4,5.6,7....8)years before David Moyes became the Manchester United Manager ? Don't answer that because I know your reason.
And just for your info of those 7 defeats, one was against United at home, and there were defeats at Arsenal, City and Tottenham. How many points/wins would you expect Everton to get in those same fixtures in any given season, Again no answer needed.
And as for why he deserved more time, because anybody with more than their fair share of braincells knew that whoever replaced the great man SAF they were always on a hiding to nothing and it was almost certainly gonna go tits up to start with, history tells us that will happen, as apposed to being a smooth transition....
To be fair mate pretty much no one expected a smooth transition, the general consensus on here and elsewhere was that there would be a drop off in performance and results. No one expected to be winning the league for 2-3 years at least.
In the short term in the first season post Fergie the majority would have been happy enough with 4th and maybe a decent cup run. I don't think its unreasonable to expect a manager who kept Everton in and around 5th-8th for a decade to be able to take over the runaway champions and at least keep them in the top 4.
What actually happened though was way below everyones including the Club's minimum expectations. We dropped down the table like a stone, did nothing in the cups, failed to even qualify for any sort of european competition and only won two league games against the top 10 sides other than ourselves in the country. All the while playing a brand of football that most didn't enjoy watching.
Come one mate there isn't a club on planet earth who would have given any manager more time after that performance. Fact is its probably only United that would have given him as long as they did, Chelsea, Real etc. would have sacked him before Xmas and given him no chance at all to turn it around. So in reality he did get more time.
Can someone please make a list and thread with all the records Moyes,LvG and Mourinho destroyed. It will take time. Thank you
As i've said previously if he'd been given a 3 year contract and it was written in said contract that top four was the bare-minimum than fair enough, sack him, but because we gave him a 6 year contract it suggested the club felt, despite being reigning Champions, we needed a major overhaul of the squad, certainly the defence anyway(5 years on we still do) and would cut him some slack in his first year at least if we missed out on top four.
And i'd like to think we have a bit more class than Real Madrid and Chelsea, well let's be honest most clubs do. And why sack him before Xmas, we were still on course for the magical top four finish, and as we got to the semi-finals of the League Cup, and were 10 minutes kamikaze defending(@ Bayern)away from getting to the semi-final of the Champions League(both obviously after Xmas)suggests it was the right thing to give him more time.
But it was in his contract though mate, thats why he was sacked within 48 hours of top 4 becoming mathematically impossible. They put that into his contract for a reason because regardless of contract length thats the minimum standard that is and should be expected of a Man Utd manager with the players and resources at their disposal. Van Gaal got the boot for the same reason, he failed to secure CL qualification.
We weren't really on course for a top 4 spot at all though, we'd already lost 5 games had 31 points and were on course for a 60+ point season. We finished with 64 points Arsenal came 4th that year with 79 points so we were way off.
And lets be honest we were never in that tie vs Bayern either. We embarrassed ourselves in the home leg by playing like a non league side with 10 men behind the ball to scrape a draw. It wasn't a case of kamikaze defending in the away leg as much as it was Bayern conceding a wonder goal and deciding they were going to pick us apart. Which they could have done at any point in that game. We were lucky to even be playing in the quarter finals, we did our best to get knocked out by fecking Olympiakos in the round before.
We sacked Jose before Xmas this year, do you think United lack class now?
Lets not also not forget we hired Ferguson after sacking a manager before Xmas. So we're not too classy to do it we never have been.
History has shown that sacking underperforming managers mid-season can be the right decision.
Chelsea sacked Villas Boas mid season and won the Champions League and FA Cup.
Real sacked Benitez mid season and won the Champions League.
Sacking Mourinho is looking like a good decision so far, had we pulled the trigger on Moyes earlier we might have been able to rescue something from that season as well.
Read back on the posts made back when Moyes came here. The idea we'd slide outside the top four wasn't being taken into consideration. I predicted we'd finish a modest 3rd and probably came across as one of the most negative people around. I'd suspect Fergie and co shared similar expectations in that a year of rebuilding would encompass a disappointing 3rd or 4th placed finish. Not finishing behind Everton and getting demolished regularly at home by our rivals.
Real Madrid and Chelsea may lack class but in recent years they've been...well, winning stuff. More often than us, anyway. And for all our class, Fergie was regularly ruthless with players, selling them on or dropping them when it was clear they weren't good enough anymore. One of his primary virtues as a manager was his lack of sentimentality in spite of all he achieved, the fact he tended not to play favourites and rejigged the squad when necessary. The board should take a similar view of managers if they want us to succeed. Abject failures shouldn't be afforded more time than necessary out of some bizarre notion that it's classy to give them longer not to do their job properly.
Yeah we sacked Mourinho before Xmas, but it was his third season not his first, and he was trying to get sacked anyway, and we were 19th in the League when Big Ron in his fifth season got sacked, and we'd just been humiliated at Southampton in the League Cup.
I couldn't give a flying fart what Royal Madrid and Chelsea do, or don't do mate, they just don't register.
Yes if we'd sacked David Moyes earlier we may have been able to rescue something from that season, but conversely it may have got worse, a lot worse.
I won't read back thanks, i'll take your word for it, but maybe United finishing outside the top four should have been taken into consideration because it should have been bloody obvious that the new Manager(whoever he was)had a major rebuild on his hands, christ 5 years on we still haven't adequately replaced any of Rio, Vida and Evra who were all ready for the Travellers yard and of no use whatsoever to the new Manager and needed replacing asap, and the less said about the midfield and upfront the better. We basically needed a new team.
Yep i'm sure the Board hoped things would go smoothly but the fact they gave Moyes a six year contract suggests they knew there would be bumps ahead but they were placing their confidence in him to erm Manage the situation and get us back on track.
And Yes SAF could be ruthless, but I don't recall him ever giving a player a 5/6 year contract, then binning them off 7 months later.
Stupid argument. If someone is bad doesn't matter how much time you give them, it's sunk cost. Moyes has shown he isn't up to par not only with his stint with us but two other EPL teams.
We are lucky to have been decisive in getting rid of him quickly. Not the right choice in the first place. Our goal should always be to pick someone who aligns with our culture & knows how to play attacking football. Sadly it has taken us 6 yrs to execute on that. Which is the real travesty. Neither Bobby/SAF camp or the Woodward camp had it right which is why we need a DOF so we don't do stupid stuff like what we've seen the last 6 yrs
We are lucky to have been decisive in getting rid of him quickly. Not the right choice in the first place. Our goal should always be to pick someone who aligns with our culture & knows how to play attacking football. Sadly it has taken us 6 yrs to execute on that. Which is the real travesty. Neither Bobby/SAF camp or the Woodward camp had it right which is why we need a DOF so we don't do stupid stuff like what we've seen the last 6 yrs
Moyes had no absolutely winner's mentality and lost the dressing room. Motherfecker was reading self help books on a plane with the team so that should tell you all you need to know. I don't know anyone could see how he need more time in any fashion. He was lucky to get hired in the first place and even luckier he was given time for 4th to be mathematically impossible. It was clear as day he was shit much longer before April.
Quite funny that the same logic didn't apply to Moyes. He left everton after 11 years and his former team finished above us after we forcefully took their best player. Everton had their best finish in 5 years that season and a points total higher than Moyes ever achieved with them.
Everyone would admit that it's an impossible task to replace Ferguson but you don't go from 1st to 7th, alienate most of your senior players and break some of the worst records at the club in the process. That's not acceptable for one of the biggest clubs in the world. 6 years contract or not.
Did he feck alienate most of the senior players, some, and we all know who they were started taking liberties, and undermined the Manager, as if he he didn't have enough on his plate.