I don’t have a ‘delusional obsession with Jones,’ in fact I’m saying we should sell him, but he is our best CB on his day and if he can get fit somewhere else he could do well.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 25
- Clean sheets
- 15
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 3
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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It's a shame about jones because I love his passion, determination and fight. I do think he's almost old-fashioned like in his dedication and loyalty to the club. But his injury situation is worse than most meaning he just can't be relied on to form any consistency within the defence. It's just too disruptive to have him out for longer periods than he's in, so to speak.
The amount of times I've read "if he can stay fit" since we signed Jones is literally in the hundreds. It's all anyone ever says about him. "If he can stay fit" will forever be repeated. How many times does he need to get injured before people realise he is never going to stay fit?
This.
Every time he's out, I often wonder if he is actually that injury prone, or if he is less willing to play through pain than others. It seems hard to imagine a player could be injured as consistently as he is. Especially as it's often not recurring injuries, but different pulls and strains every time. With guys like Hargreaves, he had one messed up knee that wrecked his career. It's hard to fathom how almost every part of Phil Jones is so susceptible to a pull or a tear. He's had just about every injury it's possible for a footballer to have without breaking a leg.
So he's only played in 65% of the league matches, and (due to no appearances elsewhere) ~45% of all matches this season. Smalling as a comparison has played over 80% of our matches.
Hardly looking like a centre-back that Mourinho will depend on, nevermind what happened in the seasons before.
Hardly looking like a centre-back that Mourinho will depend on, nevermind what happened in the seasons before.
we pay probably 50k/week to Jones, who is available for 40-50% of games, or you can sign someone like maguire for a bit more than 70k/week and have him as an option for more than 60-70% of games.
Sell him.
Transfermarkt:
Out with hamstring injury for both Sevilla games.
Out with hamstring injury for Basel Away.
CSKA home -out of squad - he was actually injured, he wasn't in the squad for about entire month before that game, and he wasn't in the squad five days later against City at Old Trafford.
Benfica home - out of squad: we only had Lindelof on the bench in that game, so I doubt Moueinho wouldn't have Jones on the bench in important game, but anyway, both reasons really explain a lot about Jones
Benfica away - on the bench; probably fit for this game since he played before that, and in the game after he was subbed off for injury during the game
CSKA away - not in the squad; probably rested
Basel home - suspended
So, he's missed more than half of games(most important games) because he was injured.
I would have had Smalling at the top of the list to sell, but now, I think he should stay and we should sell Jones. Good player when fit, but hardly ever fit.
Jones is never fit. He has to go now, it's ridiculous.
TIL Phil Jones made 41 appearances in his debut season with United and hasn't matched that since. Also made his most PL appearances in that season as well. (2011-12)
So his league appearance (bread and butter stuff) history with United looks like this:
2011-12: 76% of league matches
2012-13: 45%..
2013-14: 68%..
2014-15: 58%..
2015-16: 26%..
2016-17: 47%..
2017-18: 65% (55% if he doesn't appear again in the league before the end).
I wouldn't like to think he's on a lot of money with that sort of contribution. I mean it's not the worst record you'll see but hardly suggests this is a player that should be part of United's spine going forward.
So his league appearance (bread and butter stuff) history with United looks like this:
2011-12: 76% of league matches
2012-13: 45%..
2013-14: 68%..
2014-15: 58%..
2015-16: 26%..
2016-17: 47%..
2017-18: 65% (55% if he doesn't appear again in the league before the end).
I wouldn't like to think he's on a lot of money with that sort of contribution. I mean it's not the worst record you'll see but hardly suggests this is a player that should be part of United's spine going forward.
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Even Van Persie only managed two seasons though where he was fully fit for all season. His last one at Arsenal and his first one at Utd, his last two seasons here he was injured a fair bit. Not sure how he's done since he left Utd though so maybe you're right.
You simply cannot plan for a season with someone like Jones in the mix.
I honestly don't understand where the hype on Jones comes from. If he'd shown incredible heights previously (such as what Smalling did a few seasons ago under LVG), I could understand it. But he never has.
I would say that this season before he got injured was arguably the best he's ever done for us, other than maybe his first season. Yet even now, in arguably his best ever season, he really wasn't that good. At the halfway point of the season he had maybe, just maybe, edged out as being our best defender of the season so far. The fact that it was arguable in a season where Rojo was injured for the majority, Bailly was bouncing between inconsistency and injury, Lindelof starting terrible and Smalling starting the season slowly as well (but then being the one who was challenging, then overtaking, Jones as our best), that's not exactly a sign of the player that some people seem to believe he is.
If we are talking each defender at their best, both Smalling and Bailly have shown significantly higher ceilings. If we are talking consistency...even when fit Jones isn't particularly consistent, and when including injuries he's got to be our worst.
I like the guy, but it's time to call an end to his time with us. Hopefully somebody like an Everton, Leicester or Newcastle will take a punt on him.
I would say that this season before he got injured was arguably the best he's ever done for us, other than maybe his first season. Yet even now, in arguably his best ever season, he really wasn't that good. At the halfway point of the season he had maybe, just maybe, edged out as being our best defender of the season so far. The fact that it was arguable in a season where Rojo was injured for the majority, Bailly was bouncing between inconsistency and injury, Lindelof starting terrible and Smalling starting the season slowly as well (but then being the one who was challenging, then overtaking, Jones as our best), that's not exactly a sign of the player that some people seem to believe he is.
If we are talking each defender at their best, both Smalling and Bailly have shown significantly higher ceilings. If we are talking consistency...even when fit Jones isn't particularly consistent, and when including injuries he's got to be our worst.
I like the guy, but it's time to call an end to his time with us. Hopefully somebody like an Everton, Leicester or Newcastle will take a punt on him.
Sell him or loan him like Wilshere to Bournemouth, buy a top defender
High time for him to leave United. It isn't working and hasn't been for a good while.
Think we'll cut ties in the summer and go for Alderwireld.
Hes done, he needs to go.
He is a player that will never be availble no matter where he is.
He is a player that will never be availble no matter where he is.
When does his contract run out?
PL clean sheets with Jones playing 60+ mins = 13 in 20 matches
Without Jones = 3 in 12 matches
Without Jones = 3 in 12 matches
Exactly. Big difference if its a freak injury but with Jones you expect him to be injured most of the time and can't factor that in to the planning. Time to move on.
What's the win % out of interest.
Stared 21 but in 1 game he played just 22 mins, so 20 games - 12 wins, 3 losses, 5 draws.
Also Jones missed 11 games in which we won 10 and lost 1.
This 11 includes Arsenal away, Watford away, City Home, Chelsea home, Liverpool home, City away.
That own goal against Spurs killed my faith in Jones.
As far as I'm concerned, we must hold on to Bailly, Rojo, Smalling and Lindelof. Jones and Blind can leave (should be sold). No need to get Aldeweireld, Tuanzebe will be a season more mature a player next season.
As far as I'm concerned, we must hold on to Bailly, Rojo, Smalling and Lindelof. Jones and Blind can leave (should be sold). No need to get Aldeweireld, Tuanzebe will be a season more mature a player next season.
Was fuming at the time. Fecked up a bog standard clearance. He killed us that day.
Cheers!
Ideally, he should be a player we have no problems getting £30m for. England regular an still only 25.
Doubt we'd get anywhere near that.
Doubt we'd get anywhere near that.
I think he's gone.
He plays really well when he's fit, but he has just never had a season of full fitness, and for his sake and ours something has to change. He might do well with a different medical team maybe, or he's just a perennial sick-note.
Either way I don't see Jose building a team that will be able to compete in all competitions with a player who's fit for approximately 50% of all available matches.
He plays really well when he's fit, but he has just never had a season of full fitness, and for his sake and ours something has to change. He might do well with a different medical team maybe, or he's just a perennial sick-note.
Either way I don't see Jose building a team that will be able to compete in all competitions with a player who's fit for approximately 50% of all available matches.
Worth remembering in that 3 losses:
- he was at fault for one of the Stoke goals;
- lost a header to Kane in the first 10 seconds after which they scored and scored an own goal;
- I can't blame the Morata goal on him because I remember it was a header and can't bother to watch it again, but fairly sure he scored an own goal that was ruled out for a foul that didn't even exist.
I rated him highly, after this season I lost a lot of faith in him.
Yeah, I rated him too and for me he was very good for half a season and then he was poor and injured.
Won't be making same mistake again. Also only today I saw our record without him in the team. 10 wins in 11 games is amazing considering we played Arsenal away, City home and away, Liverpool and Chelsea at home.
It's a shame, but if we do plan on bringing another CB, Jones should be first out of the door.
Wonderful. Time to say goodbye
If we are planning to bring, it should be someone who goes straight into first team, not someone who might or might not like Lindelof.
Hopefully we have plans for Tuanzebe too who looked good for first team almost everytime he played and he was played out of position every game. He has all the attributes and should get some first team games.
You should. His 'defending' in the minute that let up to Chelsea scoring is hilarious.
http://www.footballorgin.com/epl-chelsea-vs-manchester-united-full-match-replay/3/
18:30. Misreads the flight of the cross and then slips, giving Hazard a free shot from the penalty spot.
19:00. Ball falls to him in the box. Simple pass to Matic is available. Instead he boots it straight into the air so Chelsea regain the ball in our half and keep the pressure on.
19:30. Positions himself in no mans land for no reason so Smalling is left 2v1 and Chelsea score.
Worth noting that he received virtually no blame for this goal. Smalling was criticised a lot (as is usually the case when he is unable to cover for the clownish play of our other defenders).
This I agree with totally.
Sadly when he plays with Bailly it doesn´t look much better.
Bailly is just all over the place all the time. But Jones is done for me should be sold this summer with Rojo and bringing in a new top class CB.
Plus Smalling is the only CB in our squad that wins headers..
Bournemouth 0:2 Man Utd
Did well today on most occasions.
His passing has badly regressed and I am not sure why. Seems to have lost all his confidence in playing forward. I can understand it with Smalling, he is technically limited but Jones is a good footballer with actual ability on the ball who at times in his days at FB and even in midfield looked quite classy. Last 2/3 years that has vanished and it is one of the reasons why he and Smalling generally do not work well together.
Some great last ditch tackles. Proper fighter. Too bad he can't stay fit.
All the talent in the world, the exact right mentality, can't stay fit obviously. Think we'll keep him unless a really high offer comes in which seems unlikely given his injury history, which is fine by me.
Was he limping towards the end or did I imagine it? 
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