Exactly
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Yup, and it shows how far our fanbase as humans have fallen. Toxic
He knows once his contract runs out the only way is down trophyless and on a lot less money, even if a club takes a chance on him. I suspect he will stay until his contract expires next season and maybe like Pogba who knows if there is a loyalty bonus attached to it?
How far with his testimonial?
Loyalty bonus at end of contract is standard practice, I assume.
His bargaining power is on the floor, wife and kids live in the area, no pressure and on near 100k a week.
I would do the same.
Exactly
My only concern is what effect a player not adding value and just picking up a pay cheque have on the dressing room.
I know clubs usually exclude such players but it won't happen here as he has a bit of goodwill. When trying to change the culture of a dressing room, I am not sure you should keep players in such a situation.
I know clubs usually exclude such players but it won't happen here as he has a bit of goodwill. When trying to change the culture of a dressing room, I am not sure you should keep players in such a situation.
I don't think that's the majority. Maybe a few hold him responsible for getting injured (which is madness).
The issue is that we knew back then that he was injury prone and renewing him was a mistake. Which highlights another issue: is our medical staff so incompetent and believed that a player who was injured on average 100 days per year could suddenly be injury free, or our head doctor does not even get asked about it?
Anyway, I think most hold responsible the club not Jones for this situation. The guy was rightfully emotional when he gained his first start after years and it was one of the best moments of this year.
This, absolutely baffling how he is being treated. Still feel so bad how he felt about his 10 year charity match.
Where's the comparison when Pogba wants to leave?
Id have sold him 2 years ago alternatively if he'd sign a deal in the vicinity of Jones' 100k/w I would, then you can sell him later. I guess you can see now why they're not comparable, but maybe if Pogba had been out with a career threatening injury for 18 months you'd be saying how stupid it was that he was given a new contract and that he was "stealing a wage".
"We have some of the highest transfer spends and wage bills in the world" - yes, we do, and that's partly because we continue to extend the contracts of players who aren't good enough or don't contribute enough. Jones is included in that
"He has 229 appearances for the club after joining as a teenager. He consistently gave his all for the club and completely destroyed his body as a result. He played through injuries and pain so often that he had to get his meniscus completely removed and could barely walk without being in pain" - Not sure what your point is here?The club has paid him generously for his service and he wasn't forced to play through pain or injury.
"God forbid we support him for a couple years while he recovers from literally giving his knee to the club." - He's been supported for years through injury. How long we do we have give unconditional support before we acknowledge we're not a charity and enough is enough?
"It’s like crying about Ferguson giving Fletcher a contract and supporting through his illness." - Strawman. It's a completely different situation
Makes me laugh. Everyone pretty much unanimously agrees that the club has been run appallingly in the past 10 years, and part of the reason we're in the mess we are is because we hoard mediocre players, we pay them too much, and we don't sell at the right time. Yet almost every individual player thread contains people defending the respective player against any of these accusations due to personal affection for the player.
It may not be Jones' fault he's injury prone, but that doesn't change the fact it's utterly ridiculous that he has managed to remain at this club for over a decade. Literally every other elite club in Europe would have got rid a very, very long time ago.
Yes Ralf shouldve exluded Lingard, Rashford and Cavani from the first team if he had balls.
"collecting a paycheck" is a cute variation on "stealing a wage". Nice find.
After his recovery he's been training and has made the bench nearly all of our matches.
That's called working. You probably dont go around saying doctors on call are collecting a wage. But you're envious of Jones' job so then it's okay to insult him on the internet I guess.
All fair comment
I can understand why club and Ole wanted to extend Jones' contract but a 4-year contract was probably too long as we're stuck with him now until next summer. He's still one of only 3 players that won the Premier League with United and next summer there may not be one left if he, Cristiano and De Gea leave the club. It's been a terrible decide for us really.
Players are people just like you and me. They are hired and protected by the contract. This is how this world runs and should run. He gets injury issues but it is very unfortunate for him as individual.
When you are sick or in long term health issue so that you are not able to work as efficiently as before, I guess many here will be happy to be fired by your employer. Sign~
When you are sick or in long term health issue so that you are not able to work as efficiently as before, I guess many here will be happy to be fired by your employer. Sign~
Sorry but this is a nonsense. The reality is that we've spent a large amount of money on a player that's been mostly injured. To comment on his injury record negatively doesn't in any way reflect badly on the poster (depending upon how it's done, of course).
Wow, take a breather fella it seems you're getting a little worked up. I didn't say anything about fining Jones for being injured...not sure where you're getting that from? I'm saying he's been injured very, very regularly and hasn't been worth the money we've paid out on him. What's 'honestly just pathetic' is making up arguments I'm not making in order to defend a player that's been mostly injured and, when not, mostly average.For not wanting to be giant cnut perhaps?
Are you seriously saying if you dont get instantly fired after a heart attack/injury (as a result of your job most likely) you're stealing a living?
I get it if you're the employer and just a cnut. Imagine being a poor dude on the internet and buying into that train of thought. It's honestly just pathetic. A win for Murdoch.
This is not even a debate. Extending Phil Jones was not the issue, even if we extended him for 200K a week.
If we'd gather a list of all issues at the club, Phil Jones would be at the bottom of it.
If we'd gather a list of all issues at the club, Phil Jones would be at the bottom of it.
Humanity crisis alive here! Amazing!
Oh no, a human being running all day, in a sport with high injury risk got injured a few times, oh no, what are United doing not getting rid of him?
Why didn't they get rid of Rashford or Pogba?
This forum has turned into fecking football manager FC.
Bordeaux are a mess of a club, probably wise to not go there even on loan.
I disagree. This forum has turned to slave master club.
'A few times'?! Are you sure about that?! Think you may be underplaying it just a little pal: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/phil-jones/verletzungen/spieler/117996
Not sure what your Rashford and Pogba whataboutery has to do with anything, or are you saying because we didn't let other underperforming players go that we should keep Jones around? Not sure your logic is particularly watertight there...
What about selling a player that's on decent wages and mostly injured is 'fecking football manager fc', or is that just something you've seen tossed around on the forum and thought it'd be cool to say?
Son, find something positive in life to enjoy, seriously.
Or, I guess, you could work hard, buy the club and do whatever you want to do with it, you seem to already know what's what.
It does when you see some of the ones I’ve commented on over the past couple of years. I don’t mind constructive criticism but it’s the childish insults wrongly targeting a player when it should be directed at the people doing the contracts
Ha...'son'. You're funny. I've got plenty to take pleasure in, thanks. Buddy, I guess we'll agree to disagree. I just find it odd that you think that it's a smart move to pay a mediocre player a very decent salary to be mostly injured for us but hey, you do you mate.
Yeah, can't argue with this. I think he's a guy that's just been very unlucky with injuries. Any ad hominem attacks are absolutely out of order.
You're saying we could've predicted he'd have a career threatening injury that would leave him out for 18 months? Our medical department couldn't but someone on the internet with the power of hindsight could've.
The more logical expectation for Jones would've been to be the same injury prone player.
Here's his injury record up until his extension (from transfermarkt). It's doesn't look different from Kanes' or Pogba's at all.
| 17/18 | Hamstring Injury | Nov 13, 2017 | Nov 30, 2017 | 17 days | 4 |
| 16/17 | Toe Injury | Mar 20, 2017 | May 4, 2017 | 45 days | 10 |
| 16/17 | Knee Injury | Sep 5, 2016 | Nov 3, 2016 | 59 days | 13 |
| 15/16 | Ankle Injury | Feb 8, 2016 | Apr 4, 2016 | 56 days | 12 |
| 15/16 | Sprained Ankle | Jan 4, 2016 | Feb 3, 2016 | 30 days | 6 |
| 15/16 | Sprained Ankle | Nov 23, 2015 | Dec 10, 2015 | 17 days | 4 |
| 15/16 | Venous occlusion | Aug 6, 2015 | Sep 24, 2015 | 49 days | 10 |
| 14/15 | Ankle Injury | Apr 13, 2015 | Apr 30, 2015 | 17 days | 2 |
| 14/15 | Shinbone injury | Oct 23, 2014 | Dec 11, 2014 | 49 days | 7 |
Here's Pogba's injury record up until last summer when everyone would've seen the wisdom in giving him a new contract on a modest salary rather than letting him leave for free:
| 20/21 | Hamstring Injury | Feb 7, 2021 | Mar 16, 2021 | 37 days | 10 |
| 20/21 | Ankle Injury | Nov 18, 2020 | Dec 1, 2020 | 13 days | 3 |
| 20/21 | Corona virus | Aug 27, 2020 | Sep 11, 2020 | 15 days | - |
| 19/20 | Ankle problems | Dec 27, 2019 | Jun 5, 2020 | 161 days | 19 |
| 19/20 | Ankle problems | Oct 2, 2019 | Dec 20, 2019 | 79 days | 17 |
| 19/20 | Ankle Injury | Sep 1, 2019 | Sep 26, 2019 | 25 days | 4 |
| 19/20 | Back Injury | Aug 2, 2019 | Aug 10, 2019 | 8 days | - |
| 18/19 | Thigh Muscle Strain | Jan 4, 2019 | Jan 12, 2019 | 8 days | 1 |
| 18/19 | Muscle Injury | Nov 8, 2018 | Nov 23, 2018 | 15 days | 1 |
| 17/18 | Thigh muscle rupture | Sep 14, 2017 | Nov 16, 2017 | 63 days | 12 |
| 16/17 | Hamstring Injury | Mar 16, 2017 | Apr 3, 2017 | 18 days | 3 |
| 15/16 | Distortion of the ankle | Oct 8, 2015 | Oct 15, 2015 | 7 days | - |
| 14/15 | Hamstring Injury | Mar 19, 2015 | May 7, 2015 | 49 days | 11 |
Jones' fecking up his knee this badly was unforeseen. A Ligue 1 club showing interest after an injury this bad shows his wages aren't exorbitant. The only thing that's arguable was the contract duration. A mistake on the club's end, sure.
Next you'll tell us Milan shouldn't have given Van Basten a new contract '91 because he had ankle surgery in '88. Robben's injury record was far worse than Jones' and he played 'till 37 and never had to have his meniscus removed.
Mate, you just asked me why one wouldn't say about someone that just had a heart attack that he's stealing a wage.
It's a despicable question. I sincerely hope if you get injured on the job, labor laws will still be place in the country where you live and random cnuts on the internet won't insult you for "stealing a wage" during your recovery.
Comparing Van Basten and Jones' situations is one of the more ridiculous false equivalencies I've seen on the caf. Kudos.
Can you please point me to where I said this?
Only a WUM could read that post and see a Van Basten & Jones comparison rather than a Jones and Pogba comparison.
The Van Basten and robben examples are clearly there to demonstrate how silly it is to discuss contract renewals that happened the past with the power of hindsight.
Absolutely:
You'll probably be pedantic and argue semantics ("collecting a lovely paycheck isn't identical to the "stealing a wage" line)
Ah, so you can't provide me with an example of me saying that someone thats had a heart attack is stealing a living then. If you read up, you'll see that I never even implied that, which must be embarrassing. Despite how you've edited the order of the posts you're quoting, you'll note that you brought up the ridiculous heart attack false equivalent after I said 'um, yes...why wouldn't one?' Thats an embarrassing one for you but just accept you made a mistake and move on buddy. The Van Basten and Robben equivalencies are ridiculous because Phil Jones isn't close to the players that they are, so yes, naturally clubs would be more likely to take calculated gambles on them. Its a dumb 'example'
Ah you went with the gish gallop. Commendable effort.
I didn't edit the posts except for the bolding. That was our only exchange, exactly as written.
My post wasn't about Robben or Van Basten. It was about comparing Jones' injury record up until his contract extension to Pogba's injury record before last summer when most would have thought extending his contract on a modest salary was preferable to letting him leave on a free.
The point about Robben and Van Basten was just too show the unpredictability of a player having a career threatening injury. No comparison was ever made between Robben/Van Basten and Jones. This is your own imagination.
Now let's get back on topic and discuss your thoughts on paid sick leave rather than your imaginative purposeful misinterpretations of my posts.
He has obviously lost football side of motivation, considering he was injury free in last few months and didn't play and is apparently still fine with his position in the team, instead of going somewhere where he might actually play. If we sign another CB this summer and he still decides to stay then you know he is here just for the money and doesn't care one bit about playing football.
Not that he didn't show that in the January when he denied loan transfer anyway.
Ok, so to clear this up (because I agree that saying someone that had a heart attack could be seen as stealing a living is very wrong) you admit i never said that, then?
The Robben and Van Basten examples are bad examples, again, because they're much better players and worth taking a gamble on. I didn't say you were comparing them as players, in fact it's clear you weren't because that would make it an even sillier example. You compared the situations though which, for the reasons I've already highlighted, is dumb. As for getting back on topic, how does discussing my thoughts about paid sick leave do that?
He wont ask to leave but ETH might transfer list him and see if there are any takers.
Saying that if he can stay fit he could be useful, hes not a dreadful player and coached properly he might be very useful as a back up.
I hope he has a swansong
Saying that if he can stay fit he could be useful, hes not a dreadful player and coached properly he might be very useful as a back up.
I hope he has a swansong
The MEN have mentioned a couple of times in recent weeks that he wants out this summer so this might finally be the year. Assuming there's a taker and right deal on the table that is.
He already refused to have one in a very humble manner.
Had a swell of sympathy for him when he left the pitch obviously emotional after having managed a rare appearance.
If he opts to stay rather than to pursue gametime elsewhere then that sympathy will diminish somewhat. His nightmare injury record isn't at all his fault but having made so much money while playing such little football over the years, I would expect him to prioritise actually getting to play football again if he manages to move past those injury issues.
If he opts to stay rather than to pursue gametime elsewhere then that sympathy will diminish somewhat. His nightmare injury record isn't at all his fault but having made so much money while playing such little football over the years, I would expect him to prioritise actually getting to play football again if he manages to move past those injury issues.
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