A tad over reacting there, unless you can provide some stats or proof? I don't think his mistake leads to more goals than other backup CB's for clubs like City or Chelsea for instance. But sure prove me wrong
Phil Jones Future | Reports: Observing United academy sessions
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
No chance. He is unsellable. We are stuck with him.
Has there been a player who stayed with us for 10 years, but never asked got a testimonial.
This guy is a definition of stealing a living. Should have been sold/released years ago but now we are 100% stuck with him after extending the contract.
Since he is here, let's hope he stays injury free and can actually have a run of games. Would be nice to have another option to play well when Maguire/Lindelof can't play
Have you got any stats to back that theory up?
Who would be the Phil Jones for city or Chelsea over the last 10 seasons? These clubs usually get rid of their Jones's after 3 seasons.
Stones who I think is worse. Not sure who they got in Chelsea. Zouma maybe? Christensen?
Still cant believe we gave him a new contract, beyond logic.
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal
And I said think. Based on premier league stats, Im not quite off either.
The problem is he is not that good enough even when fit. He is still very clumsy and is prone to rash challenges (chelsea fa cup final, against Sheffield recently he was awful). We should never have offered him an extension.
Still we won most games with Jones and Lindelöf at the start of Oles time here. It was the managerial bounce and not due to Jones.
It shows he can do the job when fit and ready to get a run of games though.
I think people overrate squad players. Although both Bailly and Jones struggle with fitness a lot. Even Tuanzebe too.
It shows he can do the job when fit and ready to get a run of games though.
I think people overrate squad players. Although both Bailly and Jones struggle with fitness a lot. Even Tuanzebe too.
Mangala, Fernando, David Luiz, an ageing Ivanovic comes to mind. And they were booted out real fast. I can not for the life of me understand why we are so slow with booting out underperforming players. Or that we renew their contracts.
We need hardworking, gifted players who are a tier below world class. But some players in our squad are stealing a living.
The likes of Anderson, Fellaini, Captain Ashley young, Phil Jones, Marcos Rojo, Jesse Lingard.
I actually admire Johny Evans, Welbeck, Cleverley, Schneiderlin and others who would rather move to other mid table clubs and get game time instead of being contented in our club playing 10-15 matches in a year spending the rest of the season in the injury table.
He probably shouldn't still be here this long on, but I think people overdo the whole "how bad" he is routine.
He's a perfectly solid mid table type of player, who can put a decent 10 games in a season.
The main problems are that he can't stay fit longer than 4-5 games in a row, and generally unless we have an injury crisis, wouldn't get the chance to play that many in a row anyway - meaning he's rusty when recalled, and it's a whole ugly cycle.
His place in the squad should probably go to a youth teamer in fairness.
He's a perfectly solid mid table type of player, who can put a decent 10 games in a season.
The main problems are that he can't stay fit longer than 4-5 games in a row, and generally unless we have an injury crisis, wouldn't get the chance to play that many in a row anyway - meaning he's rusty when recalled, and it's a whole ugly cycle.
His place in the squad should probably go to a youth teamer in fairness.
And according to those stats what constitutes an error leading to a goal. Because in Phil Jones case over the last 10 years it's definitely not 1.
I think it is being beaten 1vs1, poor pass/clearance to opponent that leads to goal. Own goals count on their own. He got two league own goals and I think a few more in the cup.
The glue factory? Avon testing? Cannibals dining monthly? Surely someone will takre him.
I was there for a cracker own goal of his v Tottenham at Wembley.
Great game, 1-0 down before I'd barely sat down, then Jonesy lamping one oafishly into his own net on 28mins.
Still can't believe we extended his contract to protect an asset no one wants.
We have Bailly Jones and Axel. All have been very much injured. Axel is the best prospect. Bailly and Jones both got new contracts.
Bailly is worth the most and should be sold ASAP and replaced with someone who can boot Jones out
Bailly is worth the most and should be sold ASAP and replaced with someone who can boot Jones out
It was the game that caused Mourinho to drop Pogba too right?
It was at a point I had stopped to care much that season for the league.
City had already secured the title and we only fighted to keep top 4.
Did Jones get dropped for Bailly and Smalling after that game or did he get injured again?
I think i've blotted the other details out, but I think you're right on Pogba as a massive cheer went up over a sub - must have been him.
Only saving grace was I live 20mins from Wembley, as otherwise it was a right old waste of a trip.
Only London trip worse was when we were 3-0 down to Arsenal about 20mins in and looked like we could be in for an all time thumping. Right in their crowd too, dreadful.
Cheers i imagined it was a very narrow definition along those lines, if it doesn't include own goals and penalties conceded. Then its probably not going to include things that are harder to quantify like losing an opponent on a corner, being caught out of position, charging out into midfield and leaving a gap behind you, not closing down an opponent quickly enough who scores form long range. etc.
I'm sure the stat is useful on some level but it's hardly evidence that Phil Jones is a good defender.
Smalling got much better once Sir Alex left. Unfair to lump him in with Jones.
I still think there is a player in Bailly that can be turned into a diamond, Ole was using him very clever before the lockdown and I expect him to do similar once we are back this week.
Personally think someone constantly injured needs time to build back up, in the past he would be thrust back into the team and injured within a couple of games. Ole was giving him minutes in games and then playing him in games that he felt he could handle. Lets not forget his display at Chelsea, he was out of this world and could still be the long term partner for Maguire.
It’s 2020, anything can seemingly happen this year so if we’re ever going to get a cash offer for Phil Jones then this insane year is the one it’ll happen in.
Agreed.. He used to be v good and has natural talent. But his lack of attendance and the fact we can’t rely on him or even understand what his role in defence is after all this time unfortunate. His posture worries me as well. He does not instill confidence. I mean, this is Manchester United..: nobody said punish him, just let him go for crying out loud. What a waste of money
Okay.
Almost fell off my chair when I opened this thread and saw some posters advocating for him to stay
I say every summer this is the year we finally get rid but every year without fail he’s still there at the end of the transfer window. 
Maybe this year...
Maybe this year...
You're using video of him already considered as poor defender. When a player keep getting injured since they were young, they won't learn from experience result in poor development as a player. Positioning & awareness are something you can improve through experience & learning process.
Completely agree with this post. It's revisionism to say that Jones wasn't an extremely talented defender when United signed him.
He was rough around the edges and his positional play was suspect but the same is true for most young players.
The issue for Jones is that he never got a run in the team long enough to improve in these areas. Injuries have had a huge impact on his career and completely curtailed his development.
Even over the last few seasons, Jones has had some spells where he's managed a successive run of games and the improvement is incredible. He had a great run of form next to Rojo and Bailly at different times. Not long before the last world cup he was considered England's first choice centre back.
There's a good player in there but he just can't stay fit. He's in the unfortunate position of needing a run of games to get himself match fit and being too injury prone to get a run of games.
It's a shame for him because he seems to be a good guy with a really good attitude.
That's what I want to say, Jones is now a poor defender. It may seem shocking to you but there are many who still think he's a quality defender when he's fit. Whether he could improve his positioning and awareness if he had stayed injury free is hypothetical. What I care is that he is now a terrible defender who keeps making stupid, costly and avoidable mistakes.
Do you watch United regularly? The guy is a 1-2 big mistake per game. Even some of his injuries are down to him over committing himself. As said he is like a 17 year old stuck in an injury ravaged body of a 28 year old. It's sad
This is how I feel.
He's been here for 9 fecking years and it was clear as day after at least 3 or 4 years he wasn't good enough.
Huge indictment of the club that such a donkey is close to a testimonial here, we've been so poorly ran in the last 10 years.
I wouldn't trust him to make the tea tbh.
There are not many people who still think that way. Most people only think that he has potential to be a very good quality defender when he was young and can become a very good defender if injury doesn't stall his development. Positioning & awareness are not attribute you can achieve & improve through talent, they are attribute related through learning process & experience so it's not really hypothetical.
People have different aptitudes regarding learning and understanding math, languages, painting etc, would not the same be true for positioning and awareness on the pitch? A player that is 20 and has played 15 games in the EPL can have a better awareness and positional understanding compared to a 200+ games player at the age of 30.
He is still a quality defender when fit. As shown with our higher win ratios with him in the side in the past.
Maybe not anymore as he has been struggling the few minutes he got this season apart from the Tranmere game.
Still we have better win ratio with Jones than Maguire under Ole since he played during the honeymoon period.
His injury record is so bad that noone wants him really. So he is stuck on our bench now when fit. Or rather stuck in the treatment room.
Maybe not anymore as he has been struggling the few minutes he got this season apart from the Tranmere game.
Still we have better win ratio with Jones than Maguire under Ole since he played during the honeymoon period.
His injury record is so bad that noone wants him really. So he is stuck on our bench now when fit. Or rather stuck in the treatment room.
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The differential is depending on two things, first is whether they like it or no. If you like math & languages then it'll help them to learn and have understanding on them.
Second is that how quick you can pick them up. Some people can pick up everything quickly, some people don't. That doesn't mean people who don't pick up quickly can't learn & have understanding on it. At the end of the day both positioning and awareness are something you gain & improve from experience & learning process.
He plays like someone who's brain hasn't adjusted to physical regression caused by injuries. He sprints back at a pace beyond which he can control himself.