Phil Neville | Portland Timbers head coach | In sexist row

Still ill

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Phil Neville in 'Phil says something stupid shocker. Moronic tweets, particularly the wife battering one. Does anyone think they reflect the actual nature of this grey, affable non-entity of a man? Does the fact that the public appetite for another twitter-related hanging saddens me more than Phil's asinine comments make me a bad person?
 

DanNistelrooy

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Phil Neville in 'Phil says something stupid shocker. Moronic tweets, particularly the wife battering one. Does anyone think they reflect the actual nature of this grey, affable non-entity of a man? Does the fact that the public appetite for another twitter-related hanging saddens me more than Phil's asinine comments make me a bad person?
Is the wife battering his tweet or from a parody account? Seeing mixed rumours online
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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Phil Neville in 'Phil says something stupid shocker. Moronic tweets, particularly the wife battering one. Does anyone think they reflect the actual nature of this grey, affable non-entity of a man? Does the fact that the public appetite for another twitter-related hanging saddens me more than Phil's asinine comments make me a bad person?
No, most normal people would accept people say things they don't actually mean, or are taken out of context. There's just too many 'professionally offended' people about nowadays, and they are the ones who are given the loudest voice.

Phil is a good guy, and one who I'd trust to do the job professionally, badly maybe, but professionally non the less.
 

RedRom

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Is the wife battering his tweet or from a parody account? Seeing mixed rumours online
It was from a fake account, even Sky Sports News fell for it, and that doesn't help when there is all of the other tweets out there.
 

Still ill

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It was from a fake account, even Sky Sports News fell for it, and that doesn't help when there is all of the other tweets out there.
Well there you go then. That was the only truly offensive one. More twitter bullshit.
 

POF

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Ridiculous appointment, there must be a 1,000+ more qualified for that job than Neville. Wonder if he's ever actually watched them play?
You're right. He has only coached no marks like Rooney, Van Persie, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Giggs, Carrick, Nani, Valencia, Parejo, Mustafi, Feghouli, etc.

How could he possibly teach anything to the great England Woman's football team?
 

RORY65

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You're right. He has only coached no marks like Rooney, Van Persie, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Giggs, Carrick, Nani, Valencia, Parejo, Mustafi, Feghouli, etc.

How could he possibly teach anything to the great England Woman's football team?
He was part of really successful periods at United and Valencia, coaching players is kind of irrelevant if the results of your coaching are terrible. He seems to have got the job because he's an FA man and it seemed a bit toxic after Sampson so no one else wanted it, he has no managerial experience while I've never heard him say anything in all the years he's been on TV that would suggest he's an inspirational leader and speaker or has any nuanced, intelligent ideas about the game.
 

POF

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He was part of really successful periods at United and Valencia, coaching players is kind of irrelevant if the results of your coaching are terrible. He seems to have got the job because he's an FA man and it seemed a bit toxic after Sampson so no one else wanted it, he has no managerial experience while I've never heard him say anything in all the years he's been on TV that would suggest he's an inspirational leader and speaker or has any nuanced, intelligent ideas about the game.
He has coached at 2 top European clubs and spent the majority of his career at the highest level of the game working under the best manager of all time and an array of extremely talented coaches.

With that background, it would almost be impossible to have learned nothing that would help him develop the players in the England Women's football team.
 

The Bloody-Nine

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He has coached at 2 top European clubs and spent the majority of his career at the highest level of the game working under the best manager of all time and an array of extremely talented coaches.

With that background, it would almost be impossible to have learned nothing that would help him develop the players in the England Women's football team.
And both periods were a disaster.
 

POF

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And both periods were a disaster.
But it's all relative. There is an absolute chasm between the respective levels.

I'll put it this way. If you are an England player and cannot glean anything from someone with Neville's experience to improve as a player - be it technical, tactical, developing a winning mentality or just overall levels of professionalism - then there is something very wrong.
 

buchansleftleg

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Only the FA could take a total Fup up and turn it into a bigger crisis and then somehow make that crisis worse.

The Womens' game should actually just break away from the FA - in fact so should the men's game for that matter!

They must have some unique filter system to gather the biggest fupwits in the country, put a blazer on them, stuff their pockets with complimentary tickets for them to sell and shove them into a position of power within the FA.

What is needed is someone to do a Roy Keane in Saipan and actually criticise the FA for what it has become. A money machine that concentrates on sponsorship deals rather than the improvement of the game.
 

TheReligion

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Who really cares about this?

The FA held process with an external recruiter and he was the best man for the job. Others dropped out and the FA had to make a decision.

Some of the rubbish being spouted about him needing experience of the women's game is meaningless. At times it's borderline sexist and you have to wonder if a large portion of people would only have been happy if the job was given to a women.

The appointment will be fine and Neville has more experience at the highest level than the most decorated of female players and coaches. His skills are clearly transferable and to suggest he doesn't know about 'women's problems' should have no baring on selection.
 

The Bloody-Nine

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But it's all relative. There is an absolute chasm between the respective levels.

I'll put it this way. If you are an England player and cannot glean anything from someone with Neville's experience to improve as a player - be it technical, tactical, developing a winning mentality or just overall levels of professionalism - then there is something very wrong.
Or there may be something very wrong with the coach in question. Just because someone has played at a high level for a long period of time, or worked under SAF (and quite a few players meet both criteria), doesn't automatically make them a coach who has something to offer.

To look at it another way, neither SAF or Mourinho played at a high level for a long period of time, yet are two of the best managers ever. Intelligence and common sense are key factors here (as in any job), and Phil hasn't displayed much of either in his public utterances.
 

TheReligion

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Exactly, there is a massive difference between the two levels, what experience has Neville got in women's football?

The England women are ranked #3 in the world ....which way do you think they're going to go?
Why do you need experience in women's football then?
 

montpelier

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Why do you need experience in women's football then?
I'd say...

1 - know the players & what they can & cannot do - your side & theirs, know the environment

2- realise it's not a replication of how the men play - unless one thinks it is, (arguable)

I think there's sexism agendas being run on both sides, yeah. Maybe some of us blokes don't realise that we're doing it (or that can easily be said anyway). And almost undeniably, it feels a lot like the men are making decisions on behalf of the women.

Personally, I always think it's like comparing men's tennis to women's tennis - it's 'almost literally' (:D) a different game that is being played.
 

TheReligion

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Suffice to say experience plays a massive part in just about all aspects of work. Have you never applied for a job?
So again, what particular experience does he need from the women's game to make him a suitable candidate? And why is it different than his experience in the men's game?
 

The Bloody-Nine

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If you have no experience of women's football, how can you pick a squad of the best players? I have no experience of women's football and I couldn't name a single English player, never mind identify the ones who are of international quality.
 

DdeGoat

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If you have no experience of women's football, how can you pick a squad of the best players? I have no experience of women's football and I couldn't name a single English player, never mind identify the ones who are of international quality.
Women's football is not a different sport, is it? Do you think when managers are appointed to jobs at clubs they have an extreme understanding of each and every player in the squad?

I am sure there is support staff and systems already in place for him to identify the kind of players he would like in the team. Surely he also has an idea of the kind of football he wants to play. Now the job is to find players to fit that system or tailor the system to fit the kind of players available. Isn't that what managing is all about? How does it differ in men's and women's football?
 

The Bloody-Nine

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I don't recall saying it's a different sport. I also don't recall saying anything about 'extreme understanding'. Those are your words.
 

Cassidy

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If you have no experience of women's football, how can you pick a squad of the best players? I have no experience of women's football and I couldn't name a single English player, never mind identify the ones who are of international quality.
That would also apply to any manager taking a job at a club in a league or country they haven't played in or managed in too. Its no different. You start watching and start assessing the players.
You also employ assistants who have some of the knowledge
 

The Bloody-Nine

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That would also apply to any manager taking a job at a club in a league or country they haven't played in or managed in too. Its no different. You start watching and start assessing the players.
You also employ assistants who have some of the knowledge
I think it's very different, simply because of the different profiles. Men's football is huge, women's football is far from it. Say for example, Silva coming to Hull. Do you think it was difficult for him to watch some Hull matches and get familiar with the players? How do you do that with women, given that their league football gets a tiny, tiny fraction of the coverage?
 

POF

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Or there may be something very wrong with the coach in question. Just because someone has played at a high level for a long period of time, or worked under SAF (and quite a few players meet both criteria), doesn't automatically make them a coach who has something to offer.

To look at it another way, neither SAF or Mourinho played at a high level for a long period of time, yet are two of the best managers ever. Intelligence and common sense are key factors here (as in any job), and Phil hasn't displayed much of either in his public utterances.
It also doesn't mean they don't. Phil Neville's chosen career post football is a coach. He did his coaching badges while still playing at Everton I believe. He came through the ranks at United and has had an ideal footballing education.

Comparing this to Mourinho and Fergie is completely pointless. This is not the top echelons of professional sport with multi million pounds being the difference between success and failure.

It is a developing sport. Winning isn't everything. Developing the players, increasing the level of professionalism and introducing the methods and habits of an elite club can only enhance the team. Neville couldn't fail to introduce methods of a top club because it will be all he knows.

Even if he is an utterly useless coach, a former player with his profile can only increase the interest around the team and he would most likely be the most technically proficient footballer any of the players would have ever trained with.

I don't want to be patronising but it would be like a recently retired professional footballer offering to coach his local school team. Should they knock him back for the local PE teacher? What does he know about school's football?
 

rocks13

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I think it's very different, simply because of the different profiles. Men's football is huge, women's football is far from it. Say for example, Silva coming to Hull. Do you think it was difficult for him to watch some Hull matches and get familiar with the players? How do you do that with women, given that their league football gets a tiny, tiny fraction of the coverage?
I'm fairly sure that in the 21st century it's possible to get coverage of most international matches and big club games from women's football.
 

Cassidy

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I think it's very different, simply because of the different profiles. Men's football is huge, women's football is far from it. Say for example, Silva coming to Hull. Do you think it was difficult for him to watch some Hull matches and get familiar with the players? How do you do that with women, given that their league football gets a tiny, tiny fraction of the coverage?
Ask the FA for footage. Just because it isn't on TV doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 

Cassidy

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I don't think the vast majority of it is televised. Happy to be corrected as I don't know for certain.
I just said just because it isn't televised doesn't mean there isn't footage.
 

The Bloody-Nine

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It also doesn't mean they don't. Phil Neville's chosen career post football is a coach. He did his coaching badges while still playing at Everton I believe. He came through the ranks at United and has had an ideal footballing education.

Comparing this to Mourinho and Fergie is completely pointless. This is not the top echelons of professional sport with multi million pounds being the difference between success and failure.

It is a developing sport. Winning isn't everything. Developing the players, increasing the level of professionalism and introducing the methods and habits of an elite club can only enhance the team. Neville couldn't fail to introduce methods of a top club because it will be all he knows.

Even if he is an utterly useless coach, a former player with his profile can only increase the interest around the team and he would most likely be the most technically proficient footballer any of the players would have ever trained with.

I don't want to be patronising but it would be like a recently retired professional footballer offering to coach his local school team. Should they knock him back for the local PE teacher? What does he know about school's football?
You could be right, time will tell. I will say, his profile means he hasn't made an ideal first impression, I think we can both agree on that.