Is that man you?
Philip Schofield
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
So if you were married to a man you would happily stay married to that man and never have sex or be intimate with anyone other than that man, even if you were actually attracted to women? And you think it would be reasonable for other people to expect you to do that?
Also, when did 60 randomly become the age at which sex stops? I mean many married couples in their 40s and 50s don't have sex either, so maybe we should judge those who do for wanting sex too?
Strange, strange opinion.
That it’s not uncommon. It’s not newsworthy aside from the fact it’s philip schofield
Says horse choker
So why the bit about him being 'full on camp'?
Was the point more that you noticed it once it was pointed out or what?
I suppose my point is that you wouldn’t have known at all that he was gay, he came across very straight always talking about his wife and kids.
Complete character change
No, you think I'm criticizing him for wanting to leave his wife and seek another relationship. I'm not and said in my first post on the subject that's not what I'm doing. What I am criticizing is that he is being lauded and heavily supported, for doing something that is disappointing. That's not the same as criticizing him, as it's something that happens all the time. It's very common for someone to want to leave a long term relationship. However, I don't think it's something that should be celebrated, as it's an incredible damaging process for those involved. In this case, it seems that because Schofield's reason for wanting to find someone else is same sex attraction, that is more acceptable than a man leaving his middle aged wife for being attracted to other women. I'm criticizing the reaction to the news, not that Schofield wants to leave his wife, as sadly these things happen.
So by coming out he became more like himself instead of having to hide who he was? Strange.
Why are you trying to make an issue out of an innocuous statement?
He isn't being lauded for saying he wants to leave his wife and have sex with other people. He is being lauded for something entirely separate. If it does come out that his sole motivation is precisely what you assume it to be, then he will get some criticism, while also recognising the nuances in the situation. The people who are giving him support have not made the same assumptions about his motivations or next actions, primarily because they don't feel compelled to project, they're content to just listen. So you're making a judgment about how people respond to a situation that few people perceive to the case, which is exactly a strawman argument but not far from it.
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Because it struck me as an odd detail that nobody needed to know about unless you were making a point of it.
Would you have even typed the comment in the first place if you didn't wanna add in that he's now fully camp?
'A trainer at work came out as gay, left his wife and kids for a man he met at work, it's not uncommon' would've been your point if you didn't want to point out that he's now 'fully camp'.
Red Issue have done one of their tweets again
Wow, talk about adding 2+2 and getting 300.
The only point that I was making was that this individual did a complete flip from appearing completely straight to not just being gay, but a camp gay. A complete character change. That’s not an anti gay statement, its just a fact so stop trying to make something out of nothing.
Jesus
People are so thin skinned nowadays.
This thread would have been golden 15 years ago.
I'm not saying he's being lauded for saying he wants to leave his wife. I'm saying he's being lauded for the reason he's leaving his wife and in doing so it's taking the attention away from the other side of the issue.
His wife has already said today that they will stay married until he finds a new relationship. But I'm not suggesting he should receive criticism for this as you say he might, as I recognize these things happen. But likewise, I don't think he should be getting the support fanfare either, as ultimately, regardless of his sexuality, he is leaving a woman in middle age, who now has to contend with fear of the possibility of growing old alone and how vulnerable and frightened etc she might be. The reason we don't get excited when a man leaves his wife for a younger model, isn't because people can't empathize with him, but because they can also empathize with the wife he's left and the difficult situation he's caused for her. There are many reasons and circumstances in which to show empathy, compassion and support for people coming as gay, but a situation like this really isn't one. I just can't agree with the "good for Phil" attitude, as he leaves his wife to go looking for another relationship. As I've repeatedly said, I'm not going to criticize him for it, as I'm aware that it happens all the time, but I'm not going to laud "brave" Phil either.
But again, you have made an assumption that he wants to leave his wife simply because he wants to sleep with other men. You outlined it in your first post.
"Isn't the only reason for coming out, as the age of 57, after many years of marriage and having 2 children, is that you plan to act on it?"
The answer to this is no, that is not the only reason someone would come out in that scenario. If that is the only reason in this scenario, he will be criticised for it, as many people are for leaving their wife simply to satisfy their primal urges, and nothing else.
who needs evidence eh? Anonymous figures on youtube with dramatic music and childish graphic do the job much betterWell I’m sold, what compelling evidence.
Glad you find casual homophobia funny.
People are so thin skinned nowadays.
This thread would have been golden 15 years ago.
But he's come out as gay and his wife has apparently said they wont divorce until he is in another relationship. Am I really making assumptions? It does sound like he's leaving his wife to be in a relationship with a man.But again, you have made an assumption that he wants to leave his wife simply because he wants to sleep with other men. You outlined it in your first post.
"Isn't the only reason for coming out, as the age of 57, after many years of marriage and having 2 children, is that you plan to act on it?"
The answer to this is no, that is not the only reason someone would come out in that scenario. If that is the only reason in this scenario, he will be criticised for it, as many people are for leaving their wife simply to satisfy their primal urges, and nothing else.
I think the fact he's come out as gay has caused people to instantly assume the orthodox response of showing support for an oppressed group and as a result not paid attention to the greater issue.
I'm not saying he's a weasel or scumbag etc, for leaving his wife. But I'm not just going to jump on the support bandwagon without considering the negative impacts of his decision.
Yes, it is an assumption. It's an assumption you're comfortable with, and it's not entirely without reason. On the other hand, a lot of people aren't comfortable with that assumption. So your decision to not offer support is not simply because you share a different viewpoint on what is and isn't acceptable in marriage among people with different sexual orientations, it's also because your assessment of the situation is different. If it had come out that he's leaving his wife because he has been cheating on her with another man and they're going to run off together, and the driving motivation of that was the same motivation as older men satisfying their sexual needs with younger women, then the way this would have been portrayed in the media, and understood by many people, would be different. That's what makes it in many situations a strawman argument. How you assess the situation and how other people assess the situation are different, because they're not assessing the same situation. The situation you're assessing is fictional, as we know it. If it becomes fact, then you can assess other people's responses and take the moral highground, and complain about how society gives gay men a free pass.
I don’t need a sermon about decency and equality from someone I don’t know on the Caf
I’m more than comfortable with my moral compass and was merely pointing to the fact that we’re getting to the point where a gentle piss take is no longer permissible
If you want to get your knickers in a twist then all power to you
Aren't you being a bit naive here? Why has he come out as gay if he wasn't planning a pursuing gay relationships? Has there ever been a case when a person has publicly announced they are gay, but aren't intending to act on it? What would be the point?
You made a point on a discussion thread. We're discussing that point.
I asked you about what point you were trying to make.
You've changed the point you were trying to make from 'it's not uncommon, it's just because it's Phillip Schofield' to 'you wouldn't have known he was gay' to seemingly understanding that a man previously hiding himself could finally be himself once he came out and are now presenting 'appearing completely straight (what does that mean?) to 'not just being gay, but a camp gay' as 'it's just a fact (it's an opinion mate, yours, how could it possibly be factual?)'.
I'm not saying you're making an anti-gay statement, I'm just trying to understand the point you were making. Your own words both in the initial comment and under questioning made it something rather than nothing.
If you can't make a point then be clear about it when you've been asked about it then I suggest you don't make the point to begin with otherwise why point out that some bloke you knew/know could never possibly have been known to be gay and now he's gay, he's a 'camp gay'? It merits a question or two at least surely?
Who defines it as a gentle piss take?
Glad that you're comfortable with your moral compass but what of those that aren't or might not be comfortable with your moral compass?
It's telling in a thread about homosexuality that so many are having 'a gentle piss take'. Enlightening really.
I'll bet it's generally those same people who can't/won't understand it from Schofield's perspective, or from anyone else's but their own but will also whine and moan about not being able to say what they please.
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The reason people stay in the closet is because of what homosexuality means in society, and the effects of that. The literal definition is exclusively about sexual preferences, but it means a lot more than that, for all sorts of reasons. The sexual orientation of a straight person is not an important part of their identity because it isn't threatened, but for the majority of people who aren't straight, it is an important part of that identity. And so there are all sorts of reasons for coming out in society. My uncle came out to his mother when he was in his 40s. She practically disowned him, primarily for religious reasons. He's since gone on to have 0 boyfriends since then, and yet he believes that was one of the most important decisions in his life, for a myriad of reasons. Unfortunately you can't reduce the complexity of the situation to the simple desire for sexual acts.
I'm sure there is truth in that, but not all circumstances are the same. Schofield has come out in public, not private. I think it's naive to believe anything other than he has done so as he can now start a new chapter in his life as a gay man and do so in the public eye.
Agreed, not all situations are the same. Like I said your assumption is not unfounded. Personally I assume he came out because someone was going to expose him, as that's seemed to be most common drivers of people in the media doing at this stage. That could be because he was caught cheating, it could be because he was overheard discussing it given he mentioned he has been discussing it with Holly and others for a long time, etc. That idea has been publicly refuted so I might be completely wrong, you might be completely right, who knows. They're just assumptions, based on very little evidence.
All I'm saying is that I do not subscribe to the notion that there is only one possible reason for it, and I'm not alone in that. So when you're comparing your assessment to other people's assessments, when you take into account that those assessments are based on fundamentally different assumptions, it then becomes clear that your entire argument has a critical flaw. As more information comes out, maybe that will disappear, or maybe it will be locked in place. I don't particularly care much either way.
I'm so glad your time is over.
If the things that have been posted on twitter and elsewhere today and yesterday are true , i would imagine his career could be over . This seemed odd to me that he needed to publically come out as being gay suddenly , as he did the other day . It often happens statements are made by famous people before the press publish their own spin on it . Phil seems to have being having bits and bobs of bad publicity since the end of last year and i wonder if this was the tabloids putting pressure on him in one way or another.
it has been widely reported over the last 24 hours that phil has known a lad since the boy was around 15 . This same lad then became phils 'Gopher " at this morning .
same lad ( now in 20s has tiff with phil and is then sacked /pressured into moving on ) . It is alledged that phil has had a sexual relationship with this lad for around 7 yrs , with the knowledge of many at this morning .
Ask yourselves this : if you were in a position of trust and responsibilty , would you engage in a sexual relationship with a person you had known since they were a child ?
mods please delete this post if you think it infringes guidelines , but as all i have posted is widely available i hope it could add to the discussion.
In my opinion , the above would far more explain phil deciding that now is the time to come out rather than him just coming to terms with it as he said on this morning .
Also in the sun on sunday today , he alludes to the fact he knew he was gay before he was even married . Nothing courageous in what hes doing now , smacks of self preservation to me
it has been widely reported over the last 24 hours that phil has known a lad since the boy was around 15 . This same lad then became phils 'Gopher " at this morning .
same lad ( now in 20s has tiff with phil and is then sacked /pressured into moving on ) . It is alledged that phil has had a sexual relationship with this lad for around 7 yrs , with the knowledge of many at this morning .
Ask yourselves this : if you were in a position of trust and responsibilty , would you engage in a sexual relationship with a person you had known since they were a child ?
mods please delete this post if you think it infringes guidelines , but as all i have posted is widely available i hope it could add to the discussion.
In my opinion , the above would far more explain phil deciding that now is the time to come out rather than him just coming to terms with it as he said on this morning .
Also in the sun on sunday today , he alludes to the fact he knew he was gay before he was even married . Nothing courageous in what hes doing now , smacks of self preservation to me
Thanks. I will. Enjoy acting like an ignorant 12 year old.
Feck me. He's after the trannies now.
Definitely puts a different spin on it if any of that is true. Not really sure what the rules are about speculating though so I'll bite my tongue for now.
In that hypothetical scenario you painted though it absolutely amounts to a breach of trust. I mean it's pretty much the definition of grooming.
This always amazes me. If we’re going to obliterate homophobia, let’s do it right.
I’m not saying that the link is true, verified, and I don’t speak to it....
But..... If Jack Nicholson Fcuks 18+ year old teenagers..... 51 year old gay guys can.
Note that in BOTH of those examples I think I’d object to to a 30 year age gap between anyone enjoying each other’s bodies, even more so if it’s the first time.......... there’s absolutely the potential for exploitation.
But let’s be even handed. Straight Men routinely lust after young women. Gay men lust after young men. Gay women lust after young women.
I imagine that the percentage that do, is probably in line with any combination of gender, sexuality, whatever.
Age of consent should apply to all sexual orientations. But if he's groomed someone from a position of trust then there are problems. Age gaps when everything is consensual are a non-issue for me.
Careful, if you make jokes like that, the lynch mob will be after you!Feck me. He's after the trannies now.
I think both are weird, tbh, irrespective of preference.