Physicality - Do we need to raise the level?

Yik

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
732
Not gonna write an essay here but thought it was worth laying out the case for why increased physicality (strength and speed) is going to be the key for success for the Premier League next season. I was at the Brentford game and it was noticeable how much more physically dominant they were, especially as the game wore on. Ditto for the Leeds game.

Now there's an argument to say that a) That 3 week break basically reset our team's match sharpness and as such its only natural to expect we'd look off the pace and b) despite Brentford's physical edge, they clearly lacked a cutting edge and by the end of the game were just resorting to spamming crosses - so by no means should we aim to model ourselves on Brentford.

Having said that, and again with the benefit of watching the players live, its clear as day a big chunk of our team is just not quick and/or strong as the Premier League now requires you to be. With all the talk of the new manager/Carrick staying, it seems obvious the biggest hurdle to any success next season is us not improving the physical level of the team. Of course not everyone in the team needs to be a speed demon or power player, but as a layman, I'd say at the very least the backline and the midfield need proper athletes in there to compete.

I actually think this makes our task slightly easier, as the likes of Brentford and Brighton have proven you don't need to spend hundreds of millions to buy Premier League ready athletic players. We already have players like Bruno and Cunha that can create goals and opportunities even against the top teams, we just need to complement them with hard running/strong players that would allow us not to be bullied by the likes of Brentford.
 
Of that staring 11 - who do you think we need to change to be more physical?

Shaw - definitely.
Casemiro - his replacement.
 
Yik said:
I actually think this makes our task slightly easier, as the likes of Brentford and Brighton have proven you don't need to spend hundreds of millions to buy Premier League ready athletic players.
Click to expand...
The problem with this approach, is that you end up with Brentford and Brighton level players. The hard task is finding players that are both at the requisite physical level, while also being at the required level of footballing ability to play in a team that wants to challenge for the the most prestigious honours.

That said, I do agree with you that we're lacking physicality in our team. Hopefully something we can address with our summer business!

To @ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg I think both of those should be replaced by players with better physical abilities. Probably right back as well, and one of our wingers (Dorgu could fill one of these, probably, though).
 
Nothing I disagree with here, and I’ll add that our central striker needs to be physically stronger than what we’ve seen. Šeško needs to do better in this regard, among a couple other things like headers and quickness to shoot. I think he becomes a 20+ goals player if he does this.

Will also add that crisp and precise passing at speed is still lacking, at least in a consistent way. Do that, and all these teams of athletes will be doing nothing but chasing shadows.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Of that staring 11 - who do you think we need to change to be more physical?

Shaw - definitely.
Casemiro - his replacement.
Click to expand...
Shaw for sure. Think he'll be okay with limited game time in the PL and CL but we need a replacement for sure. Whether thats Dorgu I dont know.

Obviously the replacements for Case and Ugarte need to be elite athletes.

Based on the Brentford game I also think we need to seriously think about a VDV style monster CB. Harry's good in the backs to wall type jobs but against the Brentfords everytime he gets pulled out of position its a nightmare as he isnt mobile.

Dalot/Mazrouai are probably serviceable.

Sesko despite being a unit doesn't actually throw his weight about as he should and neither does Zirkzee. Nor is he particularly agile or quick off the first few yards. We definitely need someone similar to Thiago/Kroupi to add to the frontline
 
In certain positions, absolutely.

CM obviously being the glaring issue (and the one we're most likely to address this summer) but relying on players like Maguire and Martinez also poses obvious problems at CB if you want to play with a higher defensive line.

Generally I think the need for physicality is something the club are aware of though, with The Athletic reporting relatively early on that raising the level of physicality in the squad was something the likes of Wilcox were keen to do.
 
Yes. Physicality and endurance, speed and stamina all come into play. I’ve said this a lot and I love Casemiro but both Amorim and Carrick have been careful not to demand too much of him, and the way we set up really benefits him. A bit like how Roy Keane has a really good final full season with us as we were in a 4-3-3. Having said that it does come with some drawbacks.

It’s all up in the air at the moment as we don’t know who is going to be manager but if Iraola were chosen I could probably see a few players struggling (Shaw, Martinez, Maguire, possibly Cunha) . If Carrick stays it’s probably not an issue.
 
I think we need to improve physically/athletically.

It's not that individual players (bar one or two) are so far off it that it is unacceptable. I think it is more a case of us having so many starters that don't excel physically to the point that it becomes a weakness.

Amad isn't much of a physical specimen. Mbeumo has been really sluggish physically for months. Mainoo has improved in this respect but can get bypassed. Shaw looks old. Yoro can be a bit weak.

I don't think they are major issues in isolation, but when you put it all together into the same starting 11 I believe it does become a weakness.
 
Physicality, plus maybe creativity outside Bruno's genius is a must, absolutely.
 
Jed I. Knight said:
The problem with this approach, is that you end up with Brentford and Brighton level players. The hard task is finding players that are both at the requisite physical level, while also being at the required level of footballing ability to play in a team that wants to challenge for the the most prestigious honours.

That said, I do agree with you that we're lacking physicality in our team. Hopefully something we can address with our summer business!

To @ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg I think both of those should be replaced by players with better physical abilities. Probably right back as well, and one of our wingers (Dorgu could fill one of these, probably, though).
Click to expand...
Its an interesting thought experiment. If you added Bruno, Cunha and Case(my picks for our top performing outfielders) I reckon Brentford would be top 3 maybe even a cheeky league push. I mean you're obviously right by my point is simply we have elite attackers and creators we just need some bruisers and pace merchants to manage our games in the PL better.
 
I think we already started to address this last summer with the ins and outs we seen, and I imagine it will continue this summer. We do need to find a balance between technical level and physical level though, with the scales tipping towards improved technical ability for me.
 
GDaly95 said:
I think we need to improve physically/athletically.

It's not that individual players (bar one or two) are so far off it that it is unacceptable. I think it is more a case of us having so many starters that don't excel physically to the point that it becomes a weakness.

Amad isn't much of a physical specimen. Mbeumo has been really sluggish physically for months. Mainoo has improved in this respect but can get bypassed. Shaw looks old. Yoro can be a bit weak.

I don't think they are major issues in isolation, but when you put it all together into the same starting 11 I believe it does become a weakness.
Click to expand...
Absolutely this!

Mbuemo has been the big disappointment. Especially given hes ex Brentford so his physicality was probably a big reason we brought him in in the first place. Hoping he bounces back on that front as at his best he's almost Tevez like but as hes not blessed with great height or blistering pace I reckon his physical sharpness is quite a tricky thing to get right. As someone shaped like Mbeumo I can sympathise!
 
Florida Man said:
Imagine if we can pick some of the ripe fruits of PSG’s or Bayern’s midfields.
Click to expand...
Oh yes. A flawless summer, maybe two, with added players that are willing to impose their relentless style on every opponent. Not impossible, but we have to spend smart, and then maybe add academy's swift lads like JJ, and Chido who already looks alomost finished, physical article.
 
Dorgu seems like our only real physical specimen. The timing of his injury was so unfortunate as he was really picking up great form.
Sesko has all the makings to become a physical dominating striker but he lacks that raw natural pace and physicality that Dorgu has
 
Irwin99 said:
Yes. Physicality and endurance, speed and stamina all come into play. I’ve said this a lot and I love Casemiro but both Amorim and Carrick have been careful not to demand too much of him, and the way we set up really benefits him. A bit like how Roy Keane has a really good final full season with us as we were in a 4-3-3. Having said that it does come with some drawbacks.

It’s all up in the air at the moment as we don’t know who is going to be manager but if Iraola were chosen I could probably see a few players struggling (Shaw, Martinez, Maguire, possibly Cunha) . If Carrick stays it’s probably not an issue.
Click to expand...
Maguire actually isnt one I'd say is physically lacking because he's so dominant aerially, offers a good outlet at corners and despite his lack of pace, his experience allows him to (usually) not get caught out too often. Plus he's been a key player in some of our matches where we've gone in with a low or mid block.
 
If physicality means also injury resistance, we have some decisions to make in that department, too.
 
Physicality is not the be all, end all, but what you need is some kind of elite baseline; perhaps you’re not a strong team, but you may be mobile, fast and technically superb and very hard to catch or out manoeuvre. When you’re middling at everything, you have no natural advantage, and that’s more our problem:

- we’re not strong
- we’re not fast
- we’re not agile
- we’re not technical
- we’re not particularly tall
- we’re not indefatigable pressing machines

So some of these need to be upped/maxxed out and suddenly you carry threat that needs tonnes of preparation to contend with in its own right.
 
It’s an absolute must. The triangle of CBs and DM and at least one full back need to be physically and athletically gifted.

Dalot is the only person we have in our back four or DM that has both those qualities but he isn’t good enough. Martinez is aggressive but is slow, De Ligt is strong and actually has decent pace over a longer distance but that initial burst and change of direction is lacking. Casemiro as great as he is, cannot close spaces down. Shaw’s recovery pace for a fullback is nonexistent now.

One of the reasons Arsenal are top of the league is because they dominate their 1v1 duels in those areas, particularly Rice, Gabriel and Saliba. We’ve seen far too often Yoro, Shaw, Maguire, Mainoo or Martinez lose key duels that have led to goals or chances

This isn’t anything new either. Our 08 team had Brown and Vidic for physicality and Rio and Evra for speed and as a collective usually shut out duels.
 
Not at the expense of technical skills. If you could easily get top physical and technical players, everyone would be doing it, so the answer isn't just to get players who are both. On average our technical skills throughout the squad are already below where I want them to be and I'd say they're more important, so if we prioritise physicality over it we're gonna keep ending up not being able to play technical football to the level where I want us to be.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Of that staring 11 - who do you think we need to change to be more physical?

Shaw - definitely.
Casemiro - his replacement.
Click to expand...

Casemiro is so good at football too. If he was just a brute I don't think he'd have made it here over the last few years. Look at fellaini, one of the strongest most determined players we've signed. Terrible on the ball, great in the air. Meh. I liked him because he gave everything but we are looking for a unicorn here this summer
 
We either need to be physically very strong or technically elite. We are neither at the moment, and I am not sure the players we are looking for also fall into these two criteria so it has to mean that we change our tactics and populate the midfiekd with more players!
 
Ali Dia said:
Casemiro is so good at football too. If he was just a brute I don't think he'd have made it here over the last few years. Look at fellaini, one of the strongest most determined players we've signed. Terrible on the ball, great in the air. Meh. I liked him because he gave everything but we are looking for a unicorn here this summer
Click to expand...

It’s not a comment on Casimero, but that his replacement needs to someone who adds physicality to the team.
 
We definitely need pace, endurance and physicality in CM.

We also need a winger who has electric pace and is good in 1v1 situations.

Both the above would progress the team massively.
 
I feel like the final table really doesn't support physicality being that important in the premier league.
Arsenal i think have the league won with more technical quality up front. I think their focus on physicality has basically sabotaged them. Newcastle are doing shit, desperate lack of technical quality there
City, Liverpool and Us have probably had the hardest time with the physicallity of the league and we still wind up winning more often that not despite being bullied pretty regularly.
Outrunning, outmuscling, outworking the opposition is fine until your playing a european campaign and trying to do it with 50% more games than the rest of the league. Most teams wont care if they dont control the midfield against teams like us. They'll be worried by technical players who can find gaps in the 10 man bus parked in their box.

Watching the champions league in recent weeks it just feels like a desperately stupid plan to lean further into physicality. The league needs technical quality.
 
Ali Dia said:
Casemiro is so good at football too. If he was just a brute I don't think he'd have made it here over the last few years. Look at fellaini, one of the strongest most determined players we've signed. Terrible on the ball, great in the air. Meh. I liked him because he gave everything but we are looking for a unicorn here this summer
Click to expand...
Casemiro is an outstanding player and very good technically but I think if you put him in that game we saw recently of Bayern vs PSG he gets wrecked like he did against Liverpool a few years back. When people say we need physicality it’s not just strength in tackles but endurance and powerful running.
 
Have to say if we had shorter players like Vitinha and Joao Gomes, as exceptional as they are, referees would allow opponents to rough them up and give them nothing. Then you'd have Neville backing them up with, 'he's got to be stronger there', or 'it's very soft' while some bruising giant manhandles them.

We need some creativity as this season we'd be nowhere without Bruno and Cunha, but the emphasis has to be on physicality based on what we've seen from refs. They don't give us anything and in particular players like Amad who elsewhere would be winning free kicks and penalties much more frequently.
 
LDUred said:
Have to say if we had shorter players like Vitinha and Joao Gomes, as exceptional as they are, referees would allow opponents to rough them up and give them nothing. Then you'd have Neville backing them up with, 'he's got to be stronger there', or 'it's very soft' while some bruising giant manhandles them.

We need some creativity as this season we'd be nowhere without Bruno and Cunha, but the emphasis has to be on physicality based on what we've seen from refs. They don't give us anything and in particular players like Amad who elsewhere would be winning free kicks and penalties much more frequently.
Click to expand...
Casemiro is too big a loss to not address our physicality. But it cant be our sole focus.
Even the physically dominant players we had when successful could play. Casemiro can play.
 
Last summer there was doom posting because we didnt sign a physical midfielder. We went from 15th to 3rd despite changing manager mid way throguh the season and seeing it out with a temporary manager

I'm not saying having a couple of more physical players wouldnt help in some positions, as long as they arent just physical players and have other abilites too. But it hasnt been the issue its been made out to be in the last couple of years.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.