Pickford's tackle on VVD: What should be the punishment?

RedSky

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Stil lnot sure why this is being singled out. It was a terrible challenge that should result in a 3 game ban. Don't know how/why it wasn't a red in game, but then again I don't understand a lot about VAR.
Probably because you're an Everton fan. If a goalkeeper did this to one of your players like DLC you'd be wanting blood and I think the majority of football fans want answers because VAR is fecked this season with zero consistency and this incident has led to a serious injury. Guarantee he won't get a ban though, he's an England International, this will get swept under the carpet.

I just hope the guy in charge of VAR in your game is black listed, he had a shocker which is frankly unforgivable.
 

DixieDean

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Probably because you're an Everton fan. If a goalkeeper did this to one of your players like DLC you'd be wanting blood and I think the majority of football fans want answers because VAR is fecked this season with zero consistency and this incident has led to a serious injury. Guarantee he won't get a ban though, he's an England International, this will get swept under the carpet.

I just hope the guy in charge of VAR in your game is black listed, he had a shocker which is frankly unforgivable.
VAR is shit. My point is it's a bad challenge, we've seen them in football since year dot. It should be a red card. I've seen worse go unpunished, though. I suspect if this was the other way around the media light would not be shining so brightly on this.
 
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Probably because you're an Everton fan. If a goalkeeper did this to one of your players like DLC you'd be wanting blood and I think the majority of football fans want answers because VAR is fecked this season with zero consistency and this incident has led to a serious injury. Guarantee he won't get a ban though, he's an England International, this will get swept under the carpet.

I just hope the guy in charge of VAR in your game is black listed, he had a shocker which is frankly unforgivable.
This forum has a bloody chip On it’s shoulder when it comes to being English.

Rio Ferdinand and various Rooney bans come to mind. English players don’t get preferential treatment.
 

FizzyWomack

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I must say in my defence I didn't actually see the tackle. I did make a post in here tongue in cheek saying Pickford should be knighted. Obviously the mods didn't like that. And I hold my hands up that was silly of me. I dont like Van Dijk but I dont want to see him hurt, he's probably a nice lad.

Upon viewing the tackle its a nasty one but I dont think Pickford meant to cause an injury, he just made a lunge for the ball and Van Dijk came out worse.

These things happen in football, they are playing for their careers, Pickford made a split second decision to go for the ball in that way and it didn't end well for Van Dijk.

Do I think he meant it? No. Do I think he should have been sent off? Yes.
 
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RedSky

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This forum has a bloody chip On it’s shoulder when it comes to being English.

Rio Ferdinand and various Rooney bans come to mind. English players don’t get preferential treatment.
Thats because Rio played for us and we're used as a shining example to everyone else. ;)
 

SilentWitness

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Probably because you're an Everton fan. If a goalkeeper did this to one of your players like DLC you'd be wanting blood and I think the majority of football fans want answers because VAR is fecked this season with zero consistency and this incident has led to a serious injury. Guarantee he won't get a ban though, he's an England International, this will get swept under the carpet.

I just hope the guy in charge of VAR in your game is black listed, he had a shocker which is frankly unforgivable.
I don’t think anyone would disagree that it should have been a red and ban.

I think the issue is that by bringing it up again after the match when both the ref and VAR looked at it is adding another inconsistency to those inconsistencies which is being highlighted due to Liverpool complaining and the large media attention that this incident is getting.

It seems unfair to pull this one up as a ban (even though it definitely should have been) when we are 5 games into a season with VAR issues in other games, not to mention the hundreds of issues last season with it.
 

UncleBob

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VAR is shit. My point is it's a bad challenge, we've seen them in football since year dot. It should be a red card. I've seen worse go unpunished, though. I suspect if this was the other way around the media light would not be shining so brightly on this.
Bizarre excuse.

Pickfords challenge is serious foul play, it's pure luck that he doesn't snap his leg like a twig the way he goes in. Coote is useless as a referee and Michael Oliver is as helpless as ever
 

RedSky

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I don’t think anyone would disagree that it should have been a red and ban.

I think the issue is that by bringing it up again after the match when both the ref and VAR looked at it is adding another inconsistency to those inconsistencies which is being highlighted due to Liverpool complaining and the large media attention that this incident is getting.

It seems unfair to pull this one up as a ban (even though it definitely should have been) when we are 5 games into a season with VAR issues in other games, not to mention the hundreds of issues last season with it.
We dont know if VAR did or didnt look at it, some sources say they did, some say they didnt. During the game the commentary crew I was watching (Lee Dixon) were told VAR only looked at the offside, Talksport confirmed this. They probably need to make an official statement one way or another.
 

SilentWitness

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We dont know if VAR did or didnt look at it, some sources say they did, some say they didnt. During the game the commentary crew I was watching (Lee Dixon) were told VAR only looked at the offside, Talksport confirmed this. They probably need to make an official statement one way or another.
But that seems daft in itself if VAR did or didn’t look at it because in the offside VAR replays when it plays on we saw that they would have seen the challenge. :lol:
 

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Well actually, i would say its neither. The root problem is that the refs are seen as infallible, so once a decision has been made in the game its done and dusted and not open for further action. No doubt Oliver and Tierney made the wrong call there, but if it was possible to overturn their call there are retrospectively punish Pickford i think people would be a lot happier.

Now of course wrong and decisive calls in matches cant be undone and its not like the match is going to be replayed, but if the FA could admit their refs made mistakes once in a while it would be a lot more palatable for the rest of us. For example the Martial/Lamela incident feels bloody unfair because what Martial did was no worse than what Lamela did. The difference is that the latter managed to con the ref by acting like a cnut. Now the sending off is in the past, but really, either Martial should have his ban lifted or Lamela should have faced similar sanctions

The whole thing is so incredibly daft. In any other walk of life, blatantly wrong decisions can be overturned, but not in the EPL because apparently the refs never makes mistakes there
Agree with you.
There is no accountability for officials which is bizarre. I don't know in what profession you're not held accountable?
I don't know if this is supposed to be some sick part of PL entertainment to give the media talking points so they get the clicks?
I'm also shocked that the clubs have not all protested about this, especially when stupid decisions affects them:confused:
 

RedSky

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But that seems daft in itself if VAR did or didn’t look at it because in the offside VAR replays when it plays on we saw that they would have seen the challenge. :lol:
The fact they didnt clear it up immediately tells me they fecked up. My guess is they focussed on ensuring the rules were followed for offside to the letter and simply forgot that Pickford challenged him. They probably won't know Van Dijk was badly injured as they're concentrating on the replays. For the red card to be missed it implies that Oliver didn't ask for it to be reviewed and VAR didnt check it. It's a double failure ultimately. Challenges like that have to be punished with VAR otherwise whats the fecking point?
 

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It looks so bad from the stills that I can't bring myself to watch the video :nervous:

Hope he recovers quickly.
Video doesn’t look quite as bad (nothing shocking like Shaw/Valencia/Eduardo’s injuries).
 

calodo2003

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I don’t think anyone would disagree that it should have been a red and ban.

I think the issue is that by bringing it up again after the match when both the ref and VAR looked at it is adding another inconsistency to those inconsistencies which is being highlighted due to Liverpool complaining and the large media attention that this incident is getting.

It seems unfair to pull this one up as a ban (even though it definitely should have been) when we are 5 games into a season with VAR issues in other games, not to mention the hundreds of issues last season with it.
You make good points, but at some point instances like this, if they continue to happen, need to be dealt with retroactively even with the current use of VAR. It will be unfair whenever it happens, but at some point a precedent needs to be set. A horrific play like this would ultimately be less unfair to retro punish due to its shock value. A line in the sand might have to be drawn sometime & some set of fans will take umbrage to it, but it will need to happen.
 

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He should have been sent off, VAR got it wrong. He should be banned for 3 games, then move on. Bans aren’t given out based on the length of the injury received.
 

DixieDean

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Bizarre excuse.

Pickfords challenge is serious foul play, it's pure luck that he doesn't snap his leg like a twig the way he goes in. Coote is useless as a referee and Michael Oliver is as helpless as ever
I'm not using it as a 'bizarre excuse'. There is no excuse. It was a red card. I've said it 3 times, now.

The reason I brought up past bad tackles was to highlight how they come and go without much fuss compared to this. It happened to the golden boys, so we'll probably get a VAR rule change out of it.
 

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Do extra punishment happen for a foul after the game is done and the Referee made a decision already to not punish the keeper?

Sure the tackle was worse- but if the FA are making decisions after the game & decisions have been made then I dont see why Martial getting banned for 3 games by Lamela's play acting shouldn't be looked at by the FA either.
 

amolbhatia50k

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“He’s clumsy, he didn’t mean it. There’s no intent.”

If you throw your full weight in a flying scissors tackle at literal knee height, it doesn’t matter what your excuse is; that is not football. That should be completely outlawed from the game and severe punishment meted out for anyone executing it.

I bet the reactions wouldn’t be the same if VVD was slumped with a double fracture for the exact same incident.
You mean the reactions which include United fans calling to change the rules? Yeah I think this incident is getting plenty of exposure.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I'm not using it as a 'bizarre excuse'. There is no excuse. It was a red card. I've said it 3 times, now.

The reason I brought up past bad tackles was to highlight how they come and go without much fuss compared to this. It happened to the golden boys, so we'll probably get a VAR rule change out of it.
No you're supposed to pray for VVD and offer up Pickford for a public stoning. Anything less is unacceptable on raw.. I mean redcafe.
 

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You mean the reactions which include United fans calling to change the rules? Yeah I think this incident is getting plenty of exposure.
No, there’s clearly indifference and whataboutism in full effect that wouldn’t be there if that ‘tackle’ had left him with an Eduardo or Cisse..
 

youmeletsfly

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I don't find it that bad, he stretched his legs and VVD was in an awkward position.
 

amolbhatia50k

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No, there’s clearly indifference and whataboutism in full effect that wouldn’t be there if that ‘tackle’ had left him with an Eduardo or Cisse..
There's plenty of drama queen behaviour happening because it's Liverpool and apparently "not that bad a guy" VVD.

You used the world assault :lol:
 

DixieDean

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No, there’s clearly indifference and whataboutism in full effect that wouldn’t be there if that ‘tackle’ had left him with an Eduardo or Cisse..
It was terrible and clear red. I think everyone, not blind would say that.
 

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The fact they didnt clear it up immediately tells me they fecked up. My guess is they focussed on ensuring the rules were followed for offside to the letter and simply forgot that Pickford challenged him. They probably won't know Van Dijk was badly injured as they're concentrating on the replays. For the red card to be missed it implies that Oliver didn't ask for it to be reviewed and VAR didnt check it. It's a double failure ultimately. Challenges like that have to be punished with VAR otherwise whats the fecking point?
It's odd if they watched the replay for the offside umpteen times, but no-one actually thought that tackle was pretty ropey.
It's an odd tackle though- he doesn't go through him with his studs, more the force of his body weight hurtling into him that does the damage.
 

SilentWitness

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The fact they didnt clear it up immediately tells me they fecked up. My guess is they focussed on ensuring the rules were followed for offside to the letter and simply forgot that Pickford challenged him. They probably won't know Van Dijk was badly injured as they're concentrating on the replays. For the red card to be missed it implies that Oliver didn't ask for it to be reviewed and VAR didnt check it. It's a double failure ultimately. Challenges like that have to be punished with VAR otherwise whats the fecking point?
yeah, it’s so bizarre. The clear and obvious error rule doesn’t make sense and it’s an outrage that they didn’t sort these issues out properly during the summer after the farce last year.
 

SilentWitness

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You make good points, but at some point instances like this, if they continue to happen, need to be dealt with retroactively even with the current use of VAR. It will be unfair whenever it happens, but at some point a precedent needs to be set. A horrific play like this would ultimately be less unfair to retro punish due to its shock value. A line in the sand might have to be drawn sometime & some set of fans will take umbrage to it, but it will need to happen.
I agree in principle. Thats where my bias comes in though, I don’t want to be the club that has to take the hit to sort it all out, even though it will help In the long term.
 

calodo2003

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I agree in principle. Thats where my bias comes in though, I don’t want to be the club that has to take the hit to sort it all out, even though it will help In the long term.
Totally hear you. I can see the confliction. Hopefully we don’t have too many instances of this egregious magnitude going forward.
 

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Straight red violent conduct so 3 game ban,
 

bondsname

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Just saw the tackle and my god that was fecking awful from Pickford, he should definitely get banned for that. Liverpool shouldn't even have to ask for a punishment, awful, awful tackle.

So as I understand it, if I'm offside I can just say feck it and punch the nearest player on the nose without any consequences? The refs in the prem are a fecking joke.
 

izec

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Now, nothing obviously. They did see it, but decided to not give a red. Now that the injury might be severe, they want punishment. Didn't do the job in the first place, and VAR was there as well. Just apply the rules and common sense during the game. Where are the consequences of the feck up from everyone involved. Don't bail them out
 

The United Irishman

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Think there's a bit of an overreaction here to be honest. Was a terrible tackle and really should have been punished at the time with a red etc etc but it was clumsy rather than malicious imo. Just panicked, as he's prone to do.

I know that's no comfort to Pool or VVD but talk of retrospective 8 game bans etc is daft imo.
Exactly as it will come back to haunt them once a Liverpool player injures someone. They suddenly go quiet when the shoe is on the other foot. I'm sure they are annoyed that one of their best players is out injured but it happens in football all the time. They should move on with their lives.
 

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Exactly. He's got form for this exact challenge. Odd how nobody has called for him to be burned at the stake previously . . .

VAR is shit. My point is it's a bad challenge, we've seen them in football since year dot. It should be a red card. I've seen worse go unpunished, though. I suspect if this was the other way around the media light would not be shining so brightly on this.
It wouldn't even have made it on a highlights show if it was the other way around.

This forum has a bloody chip On it’s shoulder when it comes to being English.

Rio Ferdinand and various Rooney bans come to mind. English players don’t get preferential treatment.
That's because they played for United. Don't you remember Shearer booting Neil Lennon in the head and getting away with it?

Trial by media has a huge impact on these retrospective bans. An England international media darling gets less negative press.

For United players, the media will look for any excuse for a controversy. It sells papers/generates clicks.
 

Morty_

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People who argues that there should be no punishment for this, in theory, doesnt that mean players can intentionally try to injure each other as long as a call is made for something else just prior?

Im not at all saying Pickford did this on purpose btw, just that if you want no punishment for this, players can actually start abusing the system.
 
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Pickford needs an extended ban for that challenge, no question.

The FA would be setting a dangerous precident by ignoring it.