Plan For Curb On Foreigners

[ega04cmd]

http://www.football365.com/story/0,1...653113,00.html

What you reckon? It will suck if they implement it without restricting Chelsea, becuase they'll just buy all the English talent. At the moment we're ok but if it comes in then Chelsea will challenge us for every English player we're interested in

 

[Fred the bin dipper]

wont happen under EU law. G14 wont stand for it anyway

 

[Guvnorgaz]

They tried it before, the 4 foreigners rule and it was overruled by the courts

 

[Small Paul]

link doesnt work.

Could you imagine arsenal with a foreigner rule!

 

[Bearded but no genius]

link doesnt work.

Could you imagine arsenal with a foreigner rule!

They have one.

They're only allowed 3 Englishmen maximum.

 

[Namliam]

Very much doubt such a rule could ever be implemented.

 

[Liverpool_FC Bollocks]

Does this stretch to the fans?

 

[Clueless]

Would rather have a rule that restricts how much the clubs can use on wages compared to income.

 

[Bearded but no genius]

Does this stretch to the fans?

"Hello, I'm Billy Bollocks, and I am a BNP member. You can call me 'bollocks'."

 

[teague]

The article says:
"The two organisations, who signed an agreement to work closer together today, propose the implementation of a six plus five system, whereby six members of a side must be homegrown."

They would be restricting based on players being homegrown rather than nationality. This is similar to the exisiting UEFA rules for euro competitions and does not fall foul of EU law.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4233353.stm

The definition of homegrown is that the player must have spent at least three years in that country between the age of 15 and 21. So players like Rossi, Ronaldo and Fabregas would actually count as homegrown.

It would encourage clubs to poach the best youngsters from around the globe at even younger ages. It would hurt English clubs quite a lot because the tight work permit rules would mean we could not have a load of "homegrown" Brazillians and Africans.

 

[marcus agrippa]

"Hello, I'm Billy Bollocks, and I am a BNP member. You can call me 'bollocks'."

 

[teague]

Here is a link to the story:
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_1653113,00.html

 

[ega04cmd]

Would rather have a rule that restricts how much the clubs can use on wages compared to income.

yeah, that would suit us down to the ground! it's true though, that's the only way to stop clubs going bankrupt or being bankrolled unfairly. say a 70% max of turnover on wages. that would be fine, the biggest clubs would be able to pull the best players. and chelsea would be fecked, because they're a small club with no history :-)

 

[RedCanuck]

Must be election time for Uefa and Fifa. They will try this nonsense and have it overturned by the courts since its probably illegal. Loved bladders' quote:

"They should leave football in peace and learn to respect the character of the game. Football is more than capable of organising itself," said Blatter.

What a twat. There has never been a greater need for a voice for the clubs than when these idiots start trying to 'fix' the game. Come on G-14!

 

[Liverpool_FC Bollocks]

You thought that was funny?

 

[Small Paul]

You thought that was funny?

I did too

 

[ralphie88]

The plan looks in contravention of EU Law to me - prima facie it contravenes at least Articles 81, 82 (anti-competitive practices) and 39 (freedom of movement).

The football authorities are trying to dress it up as being non-nationality specific but EU law looks at effect, not intention, and the effect will be to limit non-national EU players (which is illegal under Art 39).

The only way it might survive is if the Commission considers it to be a genuine employee/employer agreement (ie with the involvement of FIFPro), which would get some protection under EU rules on collective agreements.

Also worth remembering that even if the Commission agrees with the rule, that doesn't necessarily make it legal - the European Court of Justice (which came up with the Bosman and Kolpak decisions) could still declare it illegal.

 

[CnutOfAllCnuts]

The article says:
"The two organisations, who signed an agreement to work closer together today, propose the implementation of a six plus five system, whereby six members of a side must be homegrown."

They would be restricting based on players being homegrown rather than nationality. This is similar to the exisiting UEFA rules for euro competitions and does not fall foul of EU law.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4233353.stm

The definition of homegrown is that the player must have spent at least three years in that country between the age of 15 and 21. So players like Rossi, Ronaldo and Fabregas would actually count as homegrown.

It would encourage clubs to poach the best youngsters from around the globe at even younger ages. It would hurt English clubs quite a lot because the tight work permit rules would mean we could not have a load of "homegrown" Brazillians and Africans.

It's a move in the right direction. I would also like to see a minimum number of nationals in each squad.

 

[Bearded but no genius]

The plan looks in contravention of EU Law to me - prima facie it contravenes at least Articles 81, 82 (anti-competitive practices) and 39 (freedom of movement).

The football authorities are trying to dress it up as being non-nationality specific but EU law looks at effect, not intention, and the effect will be to limit non-national EU players (which is illegal under Art 39).

The only way it might survive is if the Commission considers it to be a genuine employee/employer agreement (ie with the involvement of FIFPro), which would get some protection under EU rules on collective agreements.

Also worth remembering that even if the Commission agrees with the rule, that doesn't necessarily make it legal - the European Court of Justice (which came up with the Bosman and Kolpak decisions) could still declare it illegal.

There's no way the ECJ will allow this to stand.

 

[Donaldo]

They have one.

They're only allowed 3 Englishmen maximum.

I fail to see how that could possibly bother you...

 

[ralphie88]

There's no way the ECJ will allow this to stand.

They might pull it off if they can get it through the collective agreement route. But the trouble is FIFPro is hardly a democratic worker's association.

 

[RedCanuck]

They might pull it off if they can get it through the collective agreement route. But the trouble is FIFPro is hardly a democratic worker's association.

The fact that Fifa recognise FIFPro makes me suspect on their origins and mandate

 

[Bearded but no genius]

I fail to see how that could possibly bother you...

I support an English football club because I enjoy the English mentality to the game, and a club with an Anglo-centric base of players.

It is my heritage, and I enjoy how they play the game.

You used to support the self-same club.

 

[vardamir1]

I support an English football club because I enjoy the English mentality to the game, and a club with an Anglo-centric base of players.

It is my heritage, and I enjoy how they play the game.

You used to support the self-same club.

well most of us didn't decide to support a club, they were born into it. However, I am glad I support my club, because of its multinational base of players and a refusal to build the team around players from just one nationality, i.e. to put passports before sporting excellence.

It is now our heritage and we are immensely proud of that.

 

[Bearded but no genius]

well most of us didn't decide to support a club, they were born into it. However, I am glad I support my club, because of its multinational base of players and a refusal to build the team around players from just one nationality, i.e. to put passports before sporting excellence.

It is now our heritage and we are immensely proud of that.

I'm glad you're happy.

I didn't have a choice in terms of being forced to 'decide' to support a club, due to accidents of nationality. I did however support the very first club I saw.

Unlike Donado, who is a foreigner complaining about me also being a foreigner, and who used to support Manchester United, yet loves to call me plastic.

 

[RedCanuck]

well most of us didn't decide to support a club, they were born into it. However, I am glad I support my club, because of its multinational base of players and a refusal to build the team around players from just one nationality, i.e. to put passports before sporting excellence.

It is now our heritage and we are immensely proud of that.

What are you an Arsenal fan? Sounds like an unlikely rationalization that.

 

[ralphie88]

The fact that Fifa recognise FIFPro makes me suspect on their origins and mandate

Very true.

And if the Commission recognise FIFPro then something's ultra fishy.

If you think about it, there's no reason the Commission and FIFA shouldn't be the best of buddies. They both have mutual interests. Bribes and whores.

 

[Donaldo]

Unlike Donado, who is a foreigner complaining about me also being a foreigner, and who used to support Manchester United, yet loves to call me plastic.

I'm not complaining...just wondering how Arsenal having foreign players could possibly affect you, you being a Yank and all.

 

[vardamir1]

What are you an Arsenal fan? Sounds like an unlikely rationalization that.

why is it an unlikley rationalisation?

what's wrong with judging people on merit and not on nationality?

 

[topper]

I support an English football club because I enjoy the English mentality to the game, and a club with an Anglo-centric base of players.

It is my heritage, and I enjoy how they play the game.

You used to support the self-same club.

ah one of the prawn sarnie brigade I take it

 

[RedCanuck]

why is it an unlikley rationalisation?

Because its a load of crap. Claiming that flooding your team with cheap foreign players under the guise that 'It is now our heritage and we are immensely proud of that' is a dreadful indictment of Wenger and Arsenal.

what's wrong with judging people on merit and not on nationality?

Nothing in and of itself. However Arsenal compete in the English league and represent that league in Europe. Given its current constitution, Arsenal could as well play in Malta, Prague or the Outer Hebrides and be just as representative of the EPL as it is currently.

 

[vardamir1]

Because its a load of crap. Claiming that flooding your team with cheap foreign players under the guise that 'It is now our heritage and we are immensely proud of that' is a dreadful indictment of Wenger and Arsenal.

why is it so? I believe in multiculturalism and I am proud that the club I support now does so also. I believe in picking a team on merit, not on passport, and it is fantastic for me that the club follows that principle also. Hopefully it will still be part of our heritage 10, 15, 50 years down the line?

Nothing in and of itself. However Arsenal compete in the English league and represent that league in Europe. Given its current constitution, Arsenal could as well play in Malta, Prague or the Outer Hebrides and be just as representative of the EPL as it is currently.

What defines the club is its fans and the matchgoing supporters in particular. Last time I looked they were mostly english. Therefore Arsenal is an English club. Who plays for us is immaterial. Picking a team on the basis of their passports goes against the Arsenal way.

 

[Classy Cannon]

I reckon a team should be picked on ability. If English players want to play in the prem then they will have to train harder to become good enough.

 

[Jaxson]

Id like to see them get it past the EU, it completely shits all over EU employment laws where every EU citizen has the right to work in the EU.

 

[vardamir1]

what always stumpts xenophobes is the following question: which foreigner at arsenal would you like to see replaced by a British player; which British player and why?

 

[noodlehair]

How about instead, they get rid of their silly rule which pevents teams from signing up homegrown academy players, unless they already live within an hour and a half of the teams training ground.

 

[Liverpool_FC Bollocks]

Why do Arse fans always play the xenophobe card?

It's not xenophobic to want to see British players playing for a British club. To not have one in the whole squad is a disgrace.

If anyone is xenophobic it's Wenger. He has overlooked many good British, instead opting for mediocre foreigners.

Maybe he should feck of somewhere else if he doesn't like the standard of players in this country.

 

[vardamir1]

I repeat again, which players at arsenal are mediocre, and which british players should be replacing them?

and advocating picking a team on passports and not on merit is xenophobic, sorry

 

[RedCanuck]

I repeat again, which players at arsenal are mediocre, and which british players should be replacing them?

and advocating picking a team on passports and not on merit is xenophobic, sorry

It's hardly xenophobic. Arsenal don't develop players, they poach them from other (foreign) clubs.

 

[Tribec]

If this rule ever becomes footballing law, then you can bet your life the current 90 minute rule in England will be scrapped. It currently inhibits clubs, but add the proposed new rule and it would kill clubs. Expect the clubs to tell the FA to take which rule they want and then forget the other.