Players should have no power in this way, and anyone causing problems should be benched and sold.
Player Power
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Sad case but clubs need to change can't have players running the show. Play the game get well paid and if things go wrong it fails only on the managers head.
I think if the majority of the players believe in Jose tactics and methods then its easy. They will back Jose move to remove his "second captaincy" and they will also support him if Pogba is still a nucaince and hes dtopped.
See the problem is if they don't believe in Joses tactics and methods.... well you already have a problem. For instance the club could sell Pogba, but the problem isn't gone, because the remaining players don't believe even if they didn't speak public-ally. Some will even be aggrieved at selling the player in that case, and it can cause further issues later.
So the key first is that the manager needs to do good work and convince the players of their vision, if they have the majority convinced, its all good. You then simply get rid of the bad eggs.
There is no way in hell that players downed tools in 2nd LvG season and they had perfect opportunity in december/january to do so, when cnuts started showing up with JM scarfs on OT, it would be easy way out for players, majority of fans wouldnt say a word to them. Compare that situation with Chelsea when they sacked JM, fans for few games had a go at players, calling them snakes what not.
You have 20 odd players in the squad and now they have come up with there own way of playing football that sure seems a bigger recipe for failure. If the players played there heart out and still failed then the axe shall fall on Jose head anyway why push your own agenda.
I already responded to that question multiple times, as long as I don't know what is going on between Pogba and Mourinho, as long as I don't know if it's personal or strictly professional I can't pick a side on that particular topic. Then based on the team performances and the fact that Pogba is by far our best outfield player, you have to wonder if it's actually Pogba vs Mourinho and not most players vs Mourinho and in that case Mourinho is a failing manager.
And important thing, Mourinho potentially failing doesn't mean that he is bad, people sometimes don't have the correct answers at the correct time in the correct circumstances. Sometimes it's just best to move on and try with different people in a different environment.
Now if Pogba is wrong, if Pogba is somehow the problem then sell him, one isolated player isn't really important.
If this was Bayern the players would have already started their own training sessions and coming up with their own tactics.
But he was brought in with that glittering CV two years ago. We're past the 'benefit of the doubt' stage here.
I think that thees days players have a lot of power at clubs and although I am not Jose' greatest fan, I think the manager should be more important. Although I think the manager should have more power than the players, I think that he should have enough respect for the players to not constantly 'throw them under the bus'.
I think that there should be a mutual respect between player and manager and this should involve the player being able to go to the managers office and being able to tell the manager what is on his mind, without feeling that whatever he says about anything is going to be used by the manager in the press against him, when things are going wrong for the manager.
As long as it is handled in a respectful way, I have no problem with players airing their views to the manager privately. I think that neither player or manager should air their views about certain situations in the press as this brings negative publicity to the club. Which we do not need.
Also I think some agents have have too much influence over players. Agents may say that they only have their players interests at heart. When it actually seems that some agents may be trying to poison the mind of the players, just so so they can line their own pockets with cash. Which is saddening.
I think that there should be a mutual respect between player and manager and this should involve the player being able to go to the managers office and being able to tell the manager what is on his mind, without feeling that whatever he says about anything is going to be used by the manager in the press against him, when things are going wrong for the manager.
As long as it is handled in a respectful way, I have no problem with players airing their views to the manager privately. I think that neither player or manager should air their views about certain situations in the press as this brings negative publicity to the club. Which we do not need.
Also I think some agents have have too much influence over players. Agents may say that they only have their players interests at heart. When it actually seems that some agents may be trying to poison the mind of the players, just so so they can line their own pockets with cash. Which is saddening.
I have no idea why someone would pet a snake and then complain that it hisses and bites.
Did people really think Mourinho was going to change his personality because its Man Utd?
Did people really think Mourinho was going to change his personality because its Man Utd?
Lol I never said Jose is devoid of any blame. Go read my initial post again. I was saying that since this thread is about player power, I'm not going to discuss about Jose's antics. Of course Jose has a lot to answer for but that's for another thread. Basically my point is player power is toxic and it should never be accepted in any club.
Context is important here.
Ya, in a general simplification, player power is bad. But then what if the influences by the player is good? Let's say the ones at the top who have the more power is not doing their job or pulling the club (or company) into a direction where it is diverting away from the very core ideas the club is built on? Should all the employees, the players shut their mouth and continue playing silently? Or should they take some risk, talk hints about it and exert some pressure, in hope that there will be changes in the right direction? Again it's context. The heads/leaders.. the ones at top are still human (we know how we can be) and not always right. If the heads are doing their job and care enough to re-check themselves, then there's no need for player power. We can even extend this argument to Fans power i.e. the pressure and demands made by us supporters.
Player power can both be a good functional source or a bad one, depends.
Ya, in a general simplification, player power is bad. But then what if the influences by the player is good? Let's say the ones at the top who have the more power is not doing their job or pulling the club (or company) into a direction where it is diverting away from the very core ideas the club is built on? Should all the employees, the players shut their mouth and continue playing silently? Or should they take some risk, talk hints about it and exert some pressure, in hope that there will be changes in the right direction? Again it's context. The heads/leaders.. the ones at top are still human (we know how we can be) and not always right. If the heads are doing their job and care enough to re-check themselves, then there's no need for player power. We can even extend this argument to Fans power i.e. the pressure and demands made by us supporters.
Player power can both be a good functional source or a bad one, depends.
Maybe if we had some sort of semblance of a system the players wouldn't be supposedly running the show? My god look at all the other top teams, even teams like chelsea and arsenal have managed to implement cohesive, TANGIBLE systems in less time than mou has been here. 3 years in and I still have no idea how we are supposed to be set up, or who will be playing week to week. Yet somehow it is all the players' fault for having too much "power". Amazing that it doesn't seem to be the case with literally any of the other top teams (and i hesitate to include United as a top team right now considering we are squarely midtable)
Talking about player power I only remember this old classic game:
Mourinho system is fairly simple. Not some sophisticated total football. It worries me if our players cant play the way jose wanted.
I doubt smailing and the old boys would be of use to pep. They'd be ruthlessly shown out of the door on day 1
He may very well walk away, shaw can say I proved him wrong move on and he goes onto become an even better player. It’s just terrifying the vision he’s got for the team is very slow, very tall and ageing players. The way we going forget a top 4, we could be fighting a relegation battle here, when 19 other teams can beat this what I call is not a team, but an chaotic set of individuals where the manager fights it’s best players, and has faith in pretty average players to try and get him out of a asteroid size hole, and he keeps digging deeper. Big clubs act fast, this club does not act like a big club
Jose mourinho’s chaotic behaviour last season is all coming back to bite him this season. What do people say when managers build a team, they reap the fruits of their labour, Jose mourinho is reaping what he sowed last season. His in-house fighting with players over last season finally has come back to haunt him, players don’t forget and a fair few have not forgotten with too many bridges burnt
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will find out in a few minutes if they down tools tonight.
What you're suggesting is buying robots, or slaves where the master can do as say what he likes and they must obey completely and give it their all in fear of repercussions.
what the hell have our players done to Jose apart from being a bit shit and not being coached properly? What single player out there can you point out who doesn't try when on the pitch. How come 'player power' only gets mentioned when the manager is shite? People have just invented this shit out of nothing as there's nothing else to defend Jose withWell this is what we all expected from Jose, instead he spent money on even worse players
I am saying they are being paid to do a job, huge amounts of money. If they stop trying their wages should be cut, and if they don't do their job they should be sold. The club is more important than the players, they are adults so we should treat them like adults.
I don't agree. Jose was never given the option to do that. No manager can replace their entire squad regardless of how bad the squad is if they are not promised the money to replace them. In this case, if Smalling is the best among the bunch of average players, Jose has to keep and replace others but keep playing Smalling. With Smalling and some of these players' wages, there's no way to go get top quality players who will also require big wages in addition to big transfer fees. Rebuilding a squad takes time if we are not able to throw money at it. It has to be a step by step process. If the board stops backing the rebuild, you get a squad that is not here nor there. This is what we're seeing on the pitch now. We would be in a different place if we got one of the midfielders that we were linked with, a couple of the wingers we were linked with, and defenders we were linked with.
If you think Bailly and Lindelof were brought in to replace Smalling and Jones, you should then look at what other clubs around us competing for the league have spent and are spending on their defensive additions. I see them as futures as backups to who we have and as options for us to play a different setup for different types of opponents.
We need to stop saying Jose spent money on this or that. It should be clear by now who makes the transfer calls. It is Ed. The only player that I can call a definite Jose signing is Zlatan. It was a needed signing although some might argue he's towards his latter stages of his career. He brought intensity, goals, winning mentality, and leadership to the team when we needed it badly.
Edit: Forgot about Matic. That is definitely a Jose signing.
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I doubt even Jose can think up these excuses you guys make up every dayThe laugh is on you
These are not excuses, just trying to call it like it is and try to inject some objectivity into these threads.I bet if we hadn't signed Matic from Chelsea you would have denied him too as he's been pretty underwhelming. Then poor Jose would have spent 3 seasons having signed only one player for himself out of 10.The laugh is on you
I actually feel that Matic has been very helpful for us. He may not have played his best football so far but have been on fire during parts of the season when our other midfield decides to pitch in as well.
It seems rudimentary to compare mourinho and Ferguson in this way. I think Fergie actually managed player power to where it was never a player plus 5 teammates vs the manager as it is now. He also really only gave older players like Keane in 05/06 Beckham 03 the "hairdryer" treatment. Ronaldo told him point blank I want to play for Madrid and Fergie just asked him for one more year. Hardly shutting down player power that. Mourinho as a person doesn't connect in the same way and thats why the team looks like it could give a shit if we win or lose. The manager simply HAS to go.
I don't agree with player power. The Manager is the boss. End of Story. in this case however, the Manager has managed to alienate most of his squad. The buck stops with the Manager. manager must go!
Stop deluding yourself, in Jose's first summer he stated that he has given his 4 targets to Woody, beginning of the season he smugly stated that he was specifically happy with that he had gotten 3 of his targets. Beginning of second season he was equally sounding smug when asked about he has always won the title in his second season. Halfway unto the season when all that changed he decided we were crap all along. But yeah keep talking that shite about none of the players he bought being his.
You know, I can also tell you to stop deluding yourself but I won't.
Not a problem just isolated to MUFC. This explains what is wrong with football.
When Danny Simpson first went on loan to Newcastle, the changing rooms at the training ground got robbed while training was on. At that point Danny had played a handful of first team games. I forget the actual list of items he lost but it was obscene for a bloke who had literally done about 20 days of actual employment. It's something like: 20k watch, 1k jeans, 5k jewellery, keys to 700k Aston Martin etc
Football is ruined. TV and sky have ruined it in addition to social media.
Dude, after we signed Zlatan, Bailly and Mkhi Jose himself said he had gotten 3 of the 4 his targets had been signed and the 4th one was being worked on. This is when we were still trying to sign Pogba. This actually happened, yet you sit there talking nonsense
According to my own experiences in the workplace and literature I have read (I'm doing an MA on leadership), this is not at all how humans operate, either individually or as a collective. Ideas like leadership, company culture, and employee engagement are not just buzzwords, they mean something in relation to how people respond to the situation they find themselves in. Effective leadership can bring out the best in a team, while ineffective or destructive leadership can bring out the worst. Whether you are paid £10/hr or £1,000/hr, I can well understand how people may be unable to produce their best work if they lose faith in the values, vision or methods set out by their superiors.
75 % of this forum were on Pogba's side against Mourinho. That says everything about players power in todays football and who gave them that power.
Or the fact people (rightly) see Pogba having a better impact going forward for Man Utd than Jose Mourinho.
You proved my point