Players & managers react to the Super League

RedStarUnited

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No. You’re wrong. Again. The “exact same thing” in France would be PSG changing the Ligue Un rules so they can never be relegated. Which, obviously, hasn’t happened.
I am wrong yet you are saying rules have been changed. No one has changed any rules in any competition. The SL is a new competition with new rules. The premier league and CL rules are untouched, the SL teams have just decided to opt out of the CL.

If anything, for all intents and purposes, PSG broke the financial fair play rules and have covered it up.

In the end, We wont agree on this so let's leave it.
 

bsCallout

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Congratulations, you've learned a new word and now you want to apply it to everything.


That's not how the real world works. If you enable something and it backlashes against you it's ridiculous to act dignified and appalled. You knew all along what type of monster that you were feeding and NOW of all times you want to act shocked when it's already too late.

Yes, please let the fans of the oil machine draw a line in the sand when the opportunity to win the real Champions League is evaporating before their very eyes by the same owners they've been praising for years.

You can't have it both ways.
It's not about learning a new word. It's about the fact that so many of you can't help but demonstrate it with pathetic arguements.
 

SwedishFish

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You claimed that the wild card places would be designed for the clubs mentioned that are a doubt for top four, without reading the article and understanding only two places are available and are based on European history that the clubs we're discussing don't possess. You can stand by it, but you're wrong, simple as that really. To get into the Champions League you need to reach a certain position in your league, this won't be the case for the founders of the super league.
European History do you actually know what it means? Because I'm not sure you do.

Let me explain it very carefully for you so you don't misinterpret or skewer my words to fit your agenda again.



Here is a picture of UEFAs club coeffecient. Can you tell me, what club outside of the top 4 that would benefit from this?

If it would finish say City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea this year which is looking increasingly likely.

That's right, Arsenal and Tottenham.

So I'm not wrong when I'm saying its basically a closed up shop because the teams that lose the chance to qualify are teams from lesser nations.

Swedish teams can't qualify anymore for instance.

"The wild cards will be reserved for clubs with the highest Uefa co-efficient - points used to rank clubs based on past European success - who have not qualified for the competition through their league position."

"There has been opposition to the plans, in particular from the European Leagues organisation, who said it would create a "de facto closed shop"."

Just to make it very extra crystal clear for you these are quotes from the article mentioned.

I suggest you go and do some reading on your own.
 

SwedishFish

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It's not about learning a new word. It's about the fact that so many of you can't help but demonstrate it with pathetic arguements.
You really have nothing to put up here except your argument which is essentially "everyone can change their mind" and whilst that might be true in theory the way it plays out in real life is very different.

Perhaps change your tune or start coming up with better arguments to counter the "pathetic" ones.
 

Dec9003

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European History do you actually know what it means? Because I'm not sure you do.

Let me explain it very carefully for you so you don't misinterpret or skewer my words to fit your agenda again.



Here is a picture of UEFAs club coeffecient. Can you tell me, what club outside of the top 4 that would benefit from this?

If it would finish say City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea this year which is looking increasingly likely.

That's right, Arsenal and Tottenham.

So I'm not wrong when I'm saying its basically a closed up shop because the teams that lose the chance to qualify are teams from lesser nations.

Swedish teams can't qualify anymore for instance.

"The wild cards will be reserved for clubs with the highest Uefa co-efficient - points used to rank clubs based on past European success - who have not qualified for the competition through their league position."

"There has been opposition to the plans, in particular from the European Leagues organisation, who said it would create a "de facto closed shop"."

Just to make it very extra crystal clear for you these are quotes from the article mentioned.

I suggest you go and do some reading on your own.
Are the giant gaps between your sentences meant to represent the gaps in your thinking? For a start, Dortmund are above Tottenham in the rankings and aren't guaranteed a Champions league spot in their league, so right away you're wrong. Secondly, as I actually read the article I know these changes aren't finalised, are up for discussion and wouldn't be taking place until 2024. Thirdly, your hypothetical league table currently isn't based in reality, since neither Chelsea or Liverpool are in the top four. It also proves what I've said, that in order to get these places you need to finish in the top four or hope that you get a place in the wild card which isn't guaranteed. As opposed to the Super league in which all of the founding teams will be in the competition every year forever regardless of league performance. The Champions League isnt and wouldn't be a closed up shop, certainly not in the way the Super League will be.
 

tjb

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I don't think much of that is realistic to be honest. For example, what can the UEFA do right now, starting today? Ban all players from those 12 clubs for the Euros this summer? There will be an actual chance riots would break out in countries that are heavily affected by this. Players are also under contract so it's not like that can magically switch clubs in the coming weeks in order to comply with what UEFA wants.

Same for the Champions League this season, are UEFA just going to ban Real, City and Chelsea and cancel this years edition right now? They would have to pay a shiteload of sponsorship and tv money back, and then what? They will basically force the clubs to start their Super League for sure after such a decision.

Similar for the FIFA, they want to ban players from playing in Qatar next year? There's already a huge negative public opinion towards that tournament, and a negative public opinion towards FIFA's blatant corruption. Excluding some of the biggest players in the world would only add to that, and most importantly cost them a shiteload of money due to sponsors losing interest or wanting to renegotiate the current contracts.

Most big name players are under contract at their current club as well, why would those clubs want to sell them? Another question would be, what other club would they join? All because the corrupt FIFA and UEFA don't want their clubs starting their own European leagues, someone like Messi should leave Barcelona and join Olympique Lyon?

They have some options though, like you say try to create friction between the new ESL clubs. But more logically it seems like the big clubs have a small advantage in this matter, and UEFA will just give them want they want in the end.
TBH unless they negotiate on how the champions league will work and come up with a more liberal forum for communication between the administrators(FIFA/UEFA) and clubs, UEFA is dead regardless of what happens. All the big clubs will have to do is use their media personnel to expose UEFA's corruption and their grievances, this and in addition to time will shift public negativity from the clubs to UEFA/FIFA.
 

bsCallout

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You really have nothing to put up here except your argument which is essentially "everyone can change their mind" and whilst that might be true in theory the way it plays out in real life is very different.

Perhaps change your tune or start coming up with better arguments to counter the "pathetic" ones.
Because there is no arguement to be had with someone using logical fallacies.

People accept your point, yes Man City and PSG are bad. Done bad things. But your ridiculous points against fans or players are just that: ridiculous. They don't need breaking down any more than I already have.
 

GatoLoco

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Also, consider the fact that the players might be excluded from WC, EC and CA. Messi, Ronaldo, Mbappe and Neymar can currently choose their clubs. For the first two it'll be their last shot at WC glory.
It certainly will be interesting to see which players renounce to get 4 times their current salary to play the WC instead.
 

dannyrhinos89

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I think those waiting for players to speak out will be waiting a very long time, the ones involved won’t even care as the new wages they can potentially earn from this would be astronomical.
 

Eriku

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Congratulations, you've learned a new word and now you want to apply it to everything.


That's not how the real world works. If you enable something and it backlashes against you it's ridiculous to act dignified and appalled. You knew all along what type of monster that you were feeding and NOW of all times you want to act shocked when it's already too late.

Yes, please let the fans of the oil machine draw a line in the sand when the opportunity to win the real Champions League is evaporating before their very eyes by the same owners they've been praising for years.

You can't have it both ways.
I bet you blame Einstein for Hiroshima and Nagasaki too.
 

GatoLoco

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I think those waiting for players to speak out will be waiting a very long time, the ones involved won’t even care as the new wages they can potentially earn from this would be astronomical.
Most of them are probably looking at which yacht, sports car or mansion they buy next at the moment.
 

tjb

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Most of them are probably looking at which yacht, sports car or mansion they buy next at the moment.
They would deserve the yacht too. How exactly are the players to blame, would you leave your own job because your company decided to takeover another company?
 

Someone

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Really unfair to expect the players to speak up against their employers. It's a tough one.
 

Cassidy

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Jack Grealish just RT'd this.
This is shortsighted, 30 years ago the Champions League didn't exist and kids didn't grow up wanting to win it.
There are better arguments to be made against the ESL without the nostalgic rubbish, because with this argument you would have been opposed to the inception of the Champions League in the first place
 

Tom Cato

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You really haven't got a clue have you since you make up complete lies to suit your own agenda.

Never did I claim such a thing. I said that Champions League already is pretty much a closed-up shop and I stand by that.
The Champions League have several rounds of qualifiers for leagues without direct qualifications.

The fixed slots in the contest rely on qualification in the domestic league.

That is the difference that defines the contest as we know it.
 

Stocar

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They would deserve the yacht too.
I think fans should also raise funds for players, just in case there's a possibility of them missing out on their week's wage during this horrible confusion. We also must think how the players will be affected psychologically and show them we care for them in these hard times.
 

Cassidy

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European History do you actually know what it means? Because I'm not sure you do.

Let me explain it very carefully for you so you don't misinterpret or skewer my words to fit your agenda again.



Here is a picture of UEFAs club coeffecient. Can you tell me, what club outside of the top 4 that would benefit from this?

If it would finish say City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea this year which is looking increasingly likely.

That's right, Arsenal and Tottenham.

So I'm not wrong when I'm saying its basically a closed up shop because the teams that lose the chance to qualify are teams from lesser nations.

Swedish teams can't qualify anymore for instance.

"The wild cards will be reserved for clubs with the highest Uefa co-efficient - points used to rank clubs based on past European success - who have not qualified for the competition through their league position."

"There has been opposition to the plans, in particular from the European Leagues organisation, who said it would create a "de facto closed shop"."

Just to make it very extra crystal clear for you these are quotes from the article mentioned.

I suggest you go and do some reading on your own.
I've been saying this about the new UCL which is why UEFAs faux outrage is pretty stupid but everyone is falling for it
 

SwedishFish

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Are the giant gaps between your sentences meant to represent the gaps in your thinking? For a start, Dortmund are above Tottenham in the rankings and aren't guaranteed a Champions league spot in their league, so right away you're wrong. Secondly, as I actually read the article I know these changes aren't finalised, are up for discussion and wouldn't be taking place until 2024. Thirdly, your hypothetical league table currently isn't based in reality, since neither Chelsea or Liverpool are in the top four. It also proves what I've said, that in order to get these places you need to finish in the top four or hope that you get a place in the wild card which ins't guaranteed. As opposed to the Super league in which all of the founding teams will be in the competition every year forver regardless of league performance. The Champions League isnt and wouldn't be a closed up shop, certainly not in the way the Super League will be.
It's not guaranteed sure, but if you look at the current state of the Premier League end table and how its finished the last 5 years bar the season Leicester won the league the picture becomes clearer of who would get those spots pretty much every year. There is a big reason why the wild card places has been put in there.

Champions League is 100 percent a closed-up shop. Why can up to 7 teams from England play in it and no team from Sweden for example?

It's ridiculous, no matter how you twist it the Champions League is also a super league in itself where there is no interest in having international competition and more focus on getting big teams from the big leagues all piled into one. No matter if they finish 10th or 1st and whilst it might not ring true to Tottenham every season, more often than not it will.

Yes, it's due to take place in 2024, I know this. I know it's not tomorrow but that is because that is the earliest possible date to make these changes. All the ECA clubs agreed on the changes.

There are minor differences in both of them but the Champions League 2024 plan is massively making reaching the Champions League from a smaller nation impossible and is guaranteed to make it less competitive.

I'm not in favour of the super league, I'm just largely indifferent about it because I think we'll see pretty much the same teams year in year out anyway if we go with UEFA's new plan.
 

SwedishFish

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The Champions League have several rounds of qualifiers for leagues without direct qualifications.

The fixed slots in the contest rely on qualification in the domestic league.

That is the difference that defines the contest as we know it.
Several rounds and yet the Champion of the Swedish League isn't allowed to qualify. Fair?
 

Tom Cato

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This is shortsighted, 30 years ago the Champions League didn't exist and kids didn't grow up wanting to win it.
There are better arguments to be made against the ESL without the nostalgic rubbish, because with this argument you would have been opposed to the inception of the Champions League in the first place
You're right.

The contest under its current name is only 29 years old. Shame on Özil
 

Cassidy

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You're right.

The contest under its current name is only 29 years old. Shame on Özil
Same applies to the Premier League, new competitions come up all the time. The major issue really is the structure of this league and the entry criteria, not a new competition.

The European Cup didn't always exist either, its a stupid argument
 

flappyjay

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I think those waiting for players to speak out will be waiting a very long time, the ones involved won’t even care as the new wages they can potentially earn from this would be astronomical.
Definitely their agents are probably in their ear right now.
 

tjb

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I think fans should also raise funds for players, just in case there's a possibility of them missing out on their week's wage during this horrible confusion. We also must think how the players will be affected psychologically and show them we care for them in these hard times.
As sarcastic as that was, we are the ones who pay to watch these players, who train and stay fit to perform for our entertainment. We're the ones who want our clubs to sign players. So why come and start acting like they've done something wrong by generating part of the money they bring in?
 

flappyjay

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Same applies to the Premier League, new competitions come up all the time. The major issue really is the structure of this league and the entry criteria, not a new competition.

The European Cup didn't always exist either, its a stupid argument
Thats the issue for me too. I would love it if it was qualification based and all it did was take power from Uefa. Unfortunately it's just a money grab.
 

Tom Cato

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Same applies to the Premier League, new competitions come up all the time. The major issue really is the structure of this league and the entry criteria, not a new competition.

The European Cup didn't always exist either, its a stupid argument
That is the ONLY thing everyone are furious about. It's the basis for this entire discussion.

The European cup has been around since 1955. Not forever but for a very big part of the game's professional existence.
 

Cassidy

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That is the ONLY thing everyone are furious about. It's the basis for this entire discussion.

The European cup has been around since 1955. Not forever but for a very big part of the game's professional existence.
Hence why I said what Ozil said was irrelevant if you bothered to read, he didn't mention it
 

SwedishFish

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They would qualify if they beat their opponents. Which is the point.
No they wouldn't. They've closed up shop.

Malmö FF was in the Champions League group stage twice in the 2010s and now there isn't even a direct route of qualifying because that has been made exclusive to the top tier of Europe's leagues.

In favour of having more teams from the bigger leagues in an increasingly closed competition.

This "everyone has an opportunity" bollocks is right out of UEFA's playbook. That certainly isn't the truth these days and they've stacked the odds against it happening in a massive way.
 

Paxi

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This is shortsighted, 30 years ago the Champions League didn't exist and kids didn't grow up wanting to win it.
There are better arguments to be made against the ESL without the nostalgic rubbish, because with this argument you would have been opposed to the inception of the Champions League in the first place
What are you talking about? It did exist. It was under a different name, format but it was still prestigious and players and fans still dreamt of winning it just as much as today.
 

Stocar

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As sarcastic as that was, we are the ones who pay to watch these players, who train and stay fit to perform for our entertainment. We're the ones who want our clubs to sign players. So why come and start acting like they've done something wrong by generating part of the money they bring in?
They're just ordinary people with some sport skills that allowed them to gain ridiculous wealth as protagonists in the decadent money making spectacle. My point is no one should care. In fact, players involved will probably be thrilled if it means more money on the table.
 

SwedishFish

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No - several qualifying rounds and the Swedish champions aren't good enough to make the group stages. Big difference.
Well they did twice in the 2010s but it's not possible anymore. The top spot is now guaranteed qualifying rounds for the Europa League. The only route to get there is to win the Europa League.

They've made the competition to favor the big leagues. Is that so difficult to comprehend?
 

Hoof The Ball

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I'm amazed at how many people are unable to grasp the concept of their being levels to everything, it's like saying some guy breaking into a museum and stealing millions worth of art is the same as someone who runs a sex trafficking ring, both are crimes but not all crimes are equal.
You've recently watched somewhat trending Netflix four-part docu-series, haven't you? :D
 

The Purley King

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Well they did twice in the 2010s but it's not possible anymore. The top spot is now guaranteed qualifying rounds for the Europa League. The only route to get there is to win the Europa League.

They've made the competition to favor the big leagues. Is that so difficult to comprehend?
So the Swedish champions don't enter the qualifying rounds for the CL any more? If that is the case, then I agree that is wrong, I didn't know that had happened.