Players & managers react to the Super League

Cassidy

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What are you talking about? It did exist. It was under a different name, format but it was still prestigious and players and fans still dreamt of winning it just as much as today.
It didn't always exist, is the point
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Funny, how football was entertaining, before players were paid 100k+ a week, and no that doesn't mean that I think every penny should go to the owners, just that inflated player wages are just as much part of the problem of modern football as some break-away football super league is.
You don’t understand any of the things you’re talking about. Players should arguably be paid more. Not less.
 

Pexbo

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Anyone else really looking forwards to hearing Klopp’s thoughts on this before the game tonight?
I’m far more interested in what he will actually do rather than what he will say. I expect they will be at odds to each other.
 

GazTheLegend

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Anyone else really looking forwards to hearing Klopp’s thoughts on this before the game tonight?
He's always been such a shrinking violet I'm sure he will be Diplomatic
J/k he's going to rinse them he's a football hipster there is no way in hell he's going to be able to hold his feelings back whatever they may be
 

Zehner

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I don't think much of that is realistic to be honest. For example, what can the UEFA do right now, starting today? Ban all players from those 12 clubs for the Euros this summer? There will be an actual chance riots would break out in countries that are heavily affected by this. Players are also under contract so it's not like that can magically switch clubs in the coming weeks in order to comply with what UEFA wants.

Same for the Champions League this season, are UEFA just going to ban Real, City and Chelsea and cancel this years edition right now? They would have to pay a shiteload of sponsorship and tv money back, and then what? They will basically force the clubs to start their Super League for sure after such a decision.

Similar for the FIFA, they want to ban players from playing in Qatar next year? There's already a huge negative public opinion towards that tournament, and a negative public opinion towards FIFA's blatant corruption. Excluding some of the biggest players in the world would only add to that, and most importantly cost them a shiteload of money due to sponsors losing interest or wanting to renegotiate the current contracts.

Most big name players are under contract at their current club as well, why would those clubs want to sell them? Another question would be, what other club would they join? All because the corrupt FIFA and UEFA don't want their clubs starting their own European leagues, someone like Messi should leave Barcelona and join Olympique Lyon?

They have some options though, like you say try to create friction between the new ESL clubs. But more logically it seems like the big clubs have a small advantage in this matter, and UEFA will just give them want they want in the end.
Actually, I'm sure players have all the right to terminate their contract if the clubs see this through. To be honest, I believe it's quite simple. The World Cup and the UEFA are tournaments organized by these associations for members of these associations. With their venture the clubs have deliberately violated the terms they agreed to so both federations have every right to expel them. It's completely self-inflicted and only consequential. It's not vengeance motivated but just the rules. They can't play if they are no members of the association. Period.

Same goes for the UCL. You can't just continue with the semis. They have violated the rules every single club has to stick with. If I were them, I'd throw City, Chelsea and Real out and go with the last team that was beaten by the semi finalist and still is in the association. So it would probably go Dortmund - PSG and Atalanta - Leipzig. Oh and by the way, in their stead I'd also check if I can sue those clubs for compensation in order to pay any compensations those associations have to pay their business partners due to them violating the regulations they agreed on. Though I admit, you could finish this tournament since the clubs are only intending to start the competition next season, not this one.

And yes, that's exactly what Messi should do. Probably PSG instead of Lyon though. In the end the FIFA is an association. It might be worldwide and more less including every football club out there but it still is an association and if you want to play a tournament of them, better play for a club that is a member of said association.

Do any of that and they may as well call it a day. Football is made by the players and using them to assert their own power when their own greed is being complained about is a bit reductive. They've already lost the support of the clubs, but due to local media interests and fears, and the terrible ESL proposals, have come out looking like victims. Enforce those moves and the moment players start to complain, clubs start advertising UEFA corruption as the reason for their break away and the local media start reviewing that, FIFA and UEFA are done. The players are the ones with the fans, if they feel aggrieved, there's no way back. Personally, I feel UEFA were arrogant to even try to enforce the proposed 2024 format without the support of these teams. They could have negotiated during the summer instead of trying to enforce those changes.
UEFA and FIFA might be corrupt but in this case, they are just an executive body, seeing through the consequences that are set in the rules which are binding for all clubs.

It certainly will be interesting to see which players renounce to get 4 times their current salary to play the WC instead.
Yes, this will be interesting. Anyway, I'll be even more interested in whether the calculations of the ESL are on point or not. Those amounts of revenue seem ridiculously high, even for such a league. I mean, if people become bored by the league because the big fixtures lose their magic through routine, it might bite them in the ass. They'll be fighting boredom on the one side and open hostility by large chunks of their former fans on the other side.

This could in fact become really, really ugly depending on how the ultras react to this.
 

kouroux

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I find it quite annoying that people jump on this person or that because they are not 100% morally pure. It's a spectrum. We're pretty much all involved in the capitalist monster, but to varying degrees. And everyone is allowed to have opinions even though they are not on a moral pedestal.

If people call out this attempt to Americanise football, I applaud it. Regardless of who they are. The hypocrisy police can go into overdrive if they want, whilst failing to see the bigger picture here.
This. It's all about the bigger picture for me too, it doesn't matter if the person saying the quotes benefited from the capitalistic system
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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That's a ridiculous stance that people aren't criticizing yet because of their focus on the clubs. What exactly did the players do to be punished. Essentially UEFA are so power hungry that their willing to destroy their international representation to prove a point by scapegoating the players and people are too outraged to see how morally inept that is. Thats like a government saying they'll increase taxes on people working for certain companies if they don't bend to their will.
Ffs. It’s not punishing the players. It’s punishing the Employer.

If your company made cars, and the cars were found to be dangerous, governments would ban the cars. The manufacturer being banned from selling cars would likely see you lose your job.

That’s not the governments fault. It’s the employer.

UEFA and FIFA are rotten to the core. But they’re not banning the players. They’re saying that anyone that works for those 12 companies, cannot play in their ecosystem.

The players will go elsewhere. Rightly so.
 

Revan

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So the Swedish champions don't enter the qualifying rounds for the CL any more? If that is the case, then I agree that is wrong, I didn't know that had happened.
That is not correct. Even the champions of Gilbraltar have a path towards UCL that does not involve winning EL.

They might have more qualifiers to do then before though. But they can qualify for UCL, if they are good enough to beat the teams they'll face in the qualifiers.
 

The Purley King

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That is not correct. Even the champions of Gilbraltar have a path towards UCL that does not involve winning EL.

They might have more qualifiers to do then before though. But they can qualify for UCL, if they are good enough to beat the teams they'll face in the qualifiers.
I thought I was going mad for a minute. SwedishFish talking a load of old pony then........
 

Powderfinger

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Actually, I'm sure players have all the right to terminate their contract if the clubs see this through. To be honest, I believe it's quite simple. The World Cup and the UEFA are tournaments organized by these associations for members of these associations. With their venture the clubs have deliberately violated the terms they agreed to so both federations have every right to expel them. It's completely self-inflicted and only consequential. It's not vengeance motivated but just the rules. They can't play if they are no members of the association. Period.
What terms have they violated? Where is it written into a contract that clubs who participate in UEFA competitions cannot discuss plans for future participation in a non-UEFA sanctioned league?

Ceferin and others at UEFA are throwing every threat around right now because they were blindsided by the announcement and it is effectively an existential threat to them. But there will be a shitstorm of litigation - from clubs, players, and commercial sponsors - if they actually attempt to ban players and clubs from these competitions. I don't think its at all obvious that they are on firm legal ground in doing so.
 

DavelinaJolie

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Cue the people that hate Lineker for daring to speak about social issues now disagreeing with his view on ESL because they don't like him
 

SwedishFish

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It's all he's done all day.
Why don't you go and learn another word?

That is not correct. Even the champions of Gilbraltar have a path towards UCL that does not involve winning EL.

They might have more qualifiers to do then before though. But they can qualify for UCL, if they are good enough to beat the teams they'll face in the qualifiers.
I thought I was going mad for a minute. SwedishFish talking a load of old pony then........

I stand corrected, I thought as the other top 2 teams only play in the Conference League that UCL qualifying wasn't happening as I'd read that somewhere.

Clearly, I was wrong, but it's still been made incredibly difficult compared to what it was.
 

Boavista

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Whatever happens, this power struggle is going to drag on for a while. UEFA/FIFA/FA don't really have a choice but to fight it, and the Super League clubs have stuck their neck out so far they can't just easily accept a few concessions to buy their support for CL reform.

If this uncertainty goes on all summer, I reckon it will substantially affect any transfer from and to SL clubs. Mbappe, Sancho, Haaland et al might want to wait to see how this all plays out before committing to United or Real or whomever.
 

Infra-red

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Seriously unimpressed= we will want a pay rise.
"Hi guys, hope you don't mind but we have signed you all up to a plastic league that will involve you travelling to Europe every midweek while also ensuring you never get to play for your countries ever again. Have a nice day."
 

Drainy

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Louis Figo - 'only to serve self-interested owners, who stopped caring about their fans long ago'

The same guy that left Barcelona to join their arch rivals now talking about caring about fans?
And Sir Alex helped bring us the Glazers with his greed over a fecking horse's spunk
 

nokillingmoths

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Same applies to the Premier League, new competitions come up all the time. The major issue really is the structure of this league and the entry criteria, not a new competition.

The European Cup didn't always exist either, its a stupid argument
This is a mental take.
 

The Purley King

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@Pogue Mahone yes I am. Hopefully he will be the first high profile manager to come out and pour water on this. Praying he does as more might find a voice
He strikes me as someone who may resign on general principle, more so than lots of other managers who are more diplomatic (Ole included).
Would love it if he gives it both barrels.
 

bsCallout

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This is shortsighted, 30 years ago the Champions League didn't exist and kids didn't grow up wanting to win it.
There are better arguments to be made against the ESL without the nostalgic rubbish, because with this argument you would have been opposed to the inception of the Champions League in the first place
The bit about growing up wanting to play SL was about silly but his overall point about playing the same team every week was on the mark.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I’m far more interested in what he will actually do rather than what he will say. I expect they will be at odds to each other.
He's always been such a shrinking violet I'm sure he will be Diplomatic
J/k he's going to rinse them he's a football hipster there is no way in hell he's going to be able to hold his feelings back whatever they may be
@Pogue Mahone yes I am. Hopefully he will be the first high profile manager to come out and pour water on this. Praying he does as more might find a voice
Obviously, I wouldn’t piss on the club that employs him if it was on fire but I do think Klopp is one of the good guys. Plus he seems to be falling out of love with football a bit anyway. With his mum dying and this season going so badly for Liverpool. Just can’t imagine him taking this lying down. Will be watching with interest.
 

siw2007

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I would personally like Southgate to come out and say any England players playing in the ESL will not be considered for international selection, and would be good for other nations to do the same. Would really add fire to this mess!
 

littlepeasoup

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I would personally like Southgate to come out and say any England players playing in the ESL will not be considered for international selection, and would be good for other nations to do the same. Would really add fire to this mess!
Every international manager with a team playing this summer in the Euros must be absolutely fuming.
 

Henrik Larsson

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Actually, I'm sure players have all the right to terminate their contract if the clubs see this through. To be honest, I believe it's quite simple. The World Cup and the UEFA are tournaments organized by these associations for members of these associations. With their venture the clubs have deliberately violated the terms they agreed to so both federations have every right to expel them. It's completely self-inflicted and only consequential. It's not vengeance motivated but just the rules. They can't play if they are no members of the association. Period.

Same goes for the UCL. You can't just continue with the semis. They have violated the rules every single club has to stick with. If I were them, I'd throw City, Chelsea and Real out and go with the last team that was beaten by the semi finalist and still is in the association. So it would probably go Dortmund - PSG and Atalanta - Leipzig. Oh and by the way, in their stead I'd also check if I can sue those clubs for compensation in order to pay any compensations those associations have to pay their business partners due to them violating the regulations they agreed on. Though I admit, you could finish this tournament since the clubs are only intending to start the competition next season, not this one.

And yes, that's exactly what Messi should do. Probably PSG instead of Lyon though. In the end the FIFA is an association. It might be worldwide and more less including every football club out there but it still is an association and if you want to play a tournament of them, better play for a club that is a member of said association.



UEFA and FIFA might be corrupt but in this case, they are just an executive body, seeing through the consequences that are set in the rules which are binding for all clubs.
It's an interesting line of thought! But like I said, I just don't think that's how it's going to work out in reality. You're making some good points from a legal POV, but I could make similar points arguing the contrary. Players under multi milliion euro contracts at various clubs throughout Europe involving all kinds of (sponsorship) constructions is a hard an very complex matter involving all kinds of laws applicable to various specific countries. My guess would be that most players will not simply be allowed to terminate their contract in this matter. And even if they might succeed in terminating, it could be a lengthy process.

Then there's the question, why would they want to have their contracts terminated in the first place? Do they want to leave their clubs? I bet plenty of them wouldn't want to and are actually open to this new SL.

There's the question which other clubs could afford them, other than PSG and maybe Bayern no other European clubs can suddenly magically afford to pay what City, United, Barcelona or Real are paying their players. So where would they realistically go?

Similar about the question who's responsible for the financial damages to the future UEFA Champions League, that's one hell of a lengthy process to exactly decide which club is responsible for what (amount of) damage. Could take half a decade to settle the basics.

I really think that ultimately if UEFA or FIFA doesn't give in, regardless of whether they are right or have some very strong arguments working in favour of them, this all will blow up in their face.
 

VorZakone

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I fully expect Klopp to not comment on this. He'll be instructed beforehand.
 

siw2007

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I am genuinely imagining Southgate sitting in front of a whiteboard with a carefully cultivated squad of England's best players, half of them with their names crossed out, sobbing.
If they do what I suggested. Someone will turn that into a meme in less than a minute!
 

Zehner

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What terms have they violated? Where is it written into a contract that clubs who participate in UEFA competitions cannot discuss plans for future participation in a non-UEFA sanctioned league?

Ceferin and others at UEFA are throwing every threat around right now because they were blindsided by the announcement and it is effectively an existential threat to them. But there will be a shitstorm of litigation - from clubs, players, and commercial sponsors - if they actually attempt to ban players and clubs from these competitions. I don't think its at all obvious that they are on firm legal ground in doing so.
The clubs are forbidden to partake in any football competitions outside of UEFA and FIFA without permission. This is relatively straight forward and also the reason why leagues consider expelling them.


It's an interesting line of thought! But like I said, I just don't think that's how it's going to work out in reality. You're making some good points from a legal POV, but I could make similar points arguing the contrary. Players under multi milliion euro contracts at various clubs throughout Europe involving all kinds of (sponsorship) constructions is a hard an very complex matter involving all kinds of laws applicable to various specific countries. My guess would be that most players will not simply be allowed to terminate their contract in this matter. And even if they might succeed in terminating, it could be a lengthy process.

Then there's the question, why would they want to have their contracts terminated in the first place? Do they want to leave their clubs? I bet plenty of them wouldn't want to and are actually open to this new SL.

There's the question which other clubs could afford them, other than PSG and maybe Bayern no other European clubs can suddenly magically afford to pay what City, United, Barcelona or Real are paying their players. So where would they realistically go?

Similar about the question who's responsible for the financial damages to the future UEFA Champions League, that's one hell of a lengthy process to exactly decide which club is responsible for what (amount of) damage. Could take half a decade to settle the basics.

I really think that ultimately if UEFA or FIFA doesn't give in, regardless of whether they are right or have some very strong arguments working in favour of them, this all will blow up in their face.
Good perspective and I think you're right that it will be a more complicated legal matter than I depicted it. But in general, I think this is very straight forward, too. As I said, I think it's relatively clear that players from clubs not belonging to the UEFA/FIFA framework can't play the WC, EC or CA regarding the regulations. UEFA and FIFA might even argue that they don't even have a choice; they in fact have to exclude them. Now when the player signed his contract it'll be relatively clear that he couldn't expect that this would prevent him from playing the WC/EC/CA and I doubt that the specifically mentioned such a scenario. I also expect that they have some clauses regarding the national teams in there. So I imagine it would be a comparatively clear story. It's like a club signing a player for the first team, rejecting him as unfit and parking him in the second team. Still, he has the contractual right to train with the first team so this situation is a violation of the contract and he can terminate it due to that. Or in other words: When the player signed, it was to be expected that the club remained part of the FIFA/UEFA framework and his decision to abandon this rule would mean that the player misses out on a life goal as well as on an opportunity to strengthen his brand and marketing value at a scale no other competition can offer. I highly, highly doubt clubs would want such charges coming in.
 

0le

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I find it quite annoying that people jump on this person or that because they are not 100% morally pure. It's a spectrum. We're pretty much all involved in the capitalist monster, but to varying degrees. And everyone is allowed to have opinions even though they are not on a moral pedestal.

If people call out this attempt to Americanise football, I applaud it. Regardless of who they are. The hypocrisy police can go into overdrive if they want, whilst failing to see the bigger picture here.
Well said.