Players of the past: Juan Veron

I’ve mentioned this before, but I recall one of Carragher’s arguments in the “Gerrard vs Lampard vs Scholes” debate was, “If Scholes was that good, why did Sir Alex buy Veron?”. That somehow diminished Scholes ability.

He just so happened to forget we sold Veron to Chelsea....
 
simplyared said:
Never worked with him and Beckham in the same line-up. Noticed when Beckham wasn't on the field he could dominate the play.
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At the time the logic of buying him was largely built around squad depth. We already had an embarrassment of riches but I think SAF was looking at one team for the Prem and one for the CL (with obvious player overlap).
 
devilish said:
The second date with my wife was spent in an internet cafe as news about us signing Veron flooded the media. I couldn't believe we were signing such a high profile player. Unfortunately for him he was up against the most productive AM of his era ie Paul Scholes. In my opinion no one, not even Zidane, was as constantly good as Paul Scholes
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Fergie played Scholes as second striker for a lot of that season. It was 4-5-1 when everyone was fit.

I agree as a neutral Veron was a massive signing at the time as Serie A was still a great league in 2001 and premier league tended to get more players from Italy who were in their 30s and wanted to experience England before retiring.

Veron was 26 and the beating heart of brilliant Parma and Lazio teams in that era.

Box to box action certainly didn't suit him and he also picked up an injury as he was then poor/unfit for Argentina in the 2002 World Cup.

Probably lack of English also contributed. Fergie said in his last book all Veron would say to him would be "Morning, Mister" first thing in the morning and that would be it.

It was a signing to try to get more CLs as there was a feeling after 1999 that Man. United's 4-4-2 was getting exposed more by elite CL teams so Veron signing was to counter that but shot yourselves in the foot selling Stam at the same time and replacing him with Blanc way past his best.
 
dcrompton said:
I said it at the time and I stick by that we signed the wrong player from Lazio. Should have signed Nedved, who went to Juventus,instead. Veron could only play centre-mid so broke the Keane-Scholes axis and didn’t really offer much flexibility, whereas Nedved could have covered any of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs or played as a 10 behind RVN.
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Would have loved Nedved. He was a favourite of mine.
 
Lay said:
Had moments of pure class. I'm sure he was player of the month in his first month here?
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Might have. He absolutely ran the show in our third or fourth match, a 4-1 win over Everton. Also scored a few good goals early on.

But, the defending was all over the place and the team chemistry was all wrong. And about three months or four months into the season, Fergie chucked out the 4-5-1, put Solskjaer upfront with Ruud and the team started flying playing the way it was used to. Veron was never going to find himself a real place there.
 
CallyRed said:
I’ve mentioned this before, but I recall one of Carragher’s arguments in the “Gerrard vs Lampard vs Scholes” debate was, “If Scholes was that good, why did Sir Alex buy Veron?”. That somehow diminished Scholes ability.

He just so happened to forget we sold Veron to Chelsea....
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I'm glad I never heard that argument from him, but now I've seen it it's still annoying.

Thought it was famous that Ferguson wanted to move away from a basic 442 to a 3-man midfield to help compete in the Champions League. Ignorance, forgetfulness, or a selective memory to make a point, I guess, from Carragher. Mind you he maintains that Gerrard won the 2005 CL on his own, forgetting Hamann's introduction at half-time to add some stability to midfield, the other goalscorers, and Dudek's wonder save from Shevchenko and his penalty saves.
 
FootballHQ said:
Fergie played Scholes as second striker for a lot of that season. It was 4-5-1 when everyone was fit.

I agree as a neutral Veron was a massive signing at the time as Serie A was still a great league in 2001 and premier league tended to get more players from Italy who were in their 30s and wanted to experience England before retiring.

Veron was 26 and the beating heart of brilliant Parma and Lazio teams in that era.

Box to box action certainly didn't suit him and he also picked up an injury as he was then poor/unfit for Argentina in the 2002 World Cup.

Probably lack of English also contributed. Fergie said in his last book all Veron would say to him would be "Morning, Mister" first thing in the morning and that would be it.

It was a signing to try to get more CLs as there was a feeling after 1999 that Man. United's 4-4-2 was getting exposed more by elite CL teams so Veron signing was to counter that but shot yourselves in the foot selling Stam at the same time and replacing him with Blanc way past his best.
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First of all let's be clear. Hindsight is a great thing and I was full muppet mode on this deal. Yet looking back as an adult person, the seeds of failure were there

a- JSV didn't come to Manchester because he wanted to. He came to Manchester because the passport scandal risked to derail his career with a possible chance of him ending in prison. That's not the kind of motivation you want a new signing to have

b- JSV skillset and character was poorly suited for that squad. Don't take me wrong JSV was a professional but he was a typical Serie A regista of the time. Someone like him had never tackled in his life. On the other hand United had an ageing Roy Keane who was still WC but was starting to need a bit of help + a Paul Scholes who was cementing his career in a deeper role. JSV signing was a kick on the teeth to both. When one consider the huge influence those two had on that close knit squad then JSV was always going to struggle.

Such big mistake taught us that

a- we need to bring players in that are properly motivated
b- there is little patience with big fee signings. They must be able to hit the ground running.
c- we need to bring players in that fit the system rather expect the system to fit them

SAF learned a huge lesson with JSV. Its a shame that all those lessons were forgotten the moment he left United
 
Didnt work out at the time for him in England, probably the right player at the wrong time in the wrong team. Remember he started really well then faded badly, and had some good games in slower paced Champions League games.

Really disappointing signing overall, for a lot of money at the time. Think if he was playing now I think he'd be one of the stars in this league in a slower more possession based game
 
I thought he was OK. He was just not the right fit and we did not have the patience.
 
Amir said:
Might have. He absolutely ran the show in our third or fourth match, a 4-1 win over Everton. Also scored a few good goals early on.
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He was ridiculously good in that Everton game - genuinely one of our most exciting individual performances for me. Check out the below:



Veron is my favourite United flop. Gutted it didn't work out as he was a magnificent player.

Could've been very different if he came in around 2007, when the Premier League (and United) were starting to adapt a more of a traditionally continental style.
 
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Right player, wrong time. I’d have given y left nut for Veron post 2013. Today he’d walk into our team and be our best player. As someone said before he’d have worked in that United team really well if our wide options had been Rooney and Ronaldo cutting in, but he wasn’t suited to what became a 4-4-1-1 with him in the team. It broke up the awesome foursome.

An absolutely sensational player that just was a square peg in a round hole. Still had some amazing games for us. Don’t view him as a flop, at all. He just failed to meet the lofty expectations but he was never bad.
 
simonhch said:
One of the top three assists I have ever seen for United. Just ridiculous.

Cantona for Irwin.
Veron for RVN
Berbatov for Ronaldo
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He was gone just a couple of weeks later. He was like the modern day Di Maria signing. Started well then faded, think Veron's issues were more due to injury rather than not wanting to be here anymore toward the end. He barely featured for Chelsea if i remember correctly
 
It was no coincidence his best games were in Europe where the game was slower. A bit puzzled by comments about how good he'd be now. He couldn't adapt to the pace of the league 24 years ago, always wanted too long on the ball and could be easily bullied. The game has got even quicker, and the vast majority of teams are pressing maniacs. He'd likely struggle even more.
 
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