Ekeke
Full Member
Drogba
Was thinking about him earlier. He went from Padova to 40 or 50 games a season for Juventus in two seasons and replaced Baggio in the process. Although he was injured, Del Piero stepped in and due to his injury and a change of style he never got a look in again.Del Piero scored 3 goals at his Juve full debut, so I m assuming it was huge back then.
Definitely Giggs. Lee Sharpe looked like he was about to lock down the LW position at the age of 20/21, then Giggs blew him out the water. He was fantastic and didn't decline in his mid 20s like some othersGiggs, possibly.
I see what you did there. Roy digging Micah out for claiming to have ‘burst onto the scene’ is now a classic moment in television historyFamously Micah Richards burst onto the scene when he, when he....uhm. Yeah...
Anyway, which players burst onto the scene and what even is bursting onto the scene?
Marcus Rashford - scored 2 goals on his debut and started because everyone else was injured
Mbappe - came alive in the second of the season for Monaco when they had that great squad under Jardim
Wayne Rooney - ended Arsenal's unbeaten run with a worldy at 16 years old and looked a seasoned professional at 18
I remember not only did Arsenal have a Brazilian, they had an Arshavin as wellSlightly different to what the OP meant but maybe Arshavin?
I think not many people outside Russia really knew who he was when he had that good tournament with Russia and looked absolute quality. Signed for Arsenal soon after
First, let's look at who coined the phrase, if you will. Micah Richards. Now let's look at what he actually said.:what even is bursting onto the scene?
Phil Jones had a great game vs Drogba for Blackburn.Hard to burst onto the scene as a non goal scoring player, people probably don't remember if a young CB had a good game as opposed to a striker.
That was a debut goal?Was thinking about him earlier. He went from Padova to 40 or 50 games a season for Juventus in two seasons and replaced Baggio in the process. Although he was injured, Del Piero stepped in and due to his injury and a change of style he never got a look in again.
Also, any excuse to watch this goal.
Don't think so. I remember seeing it on C4 back in the day. Had to had to wait years for it to surface on YouTube to watch it again.That was a debut goal?
I'd say your analysis hasn't taken xG into account which is how we can measure "bursting onto the scene"First, let's look at who coined the phrase, if you will. Micah Richards. Now let's look at what he actually said.:
"Do you not remember my header against Villa"
"I played for England at 18, youngest ever defender to play for England. I would say that's bursting onto the scene"
Looking at the quote in isolation, one could be forgiven for thinking the ''header' against Villa was scored on Richards' debut. However, this was not the case. His debut was a cameo appearance in October 2005. Richards had to wait four months for his next cameo appearance. And now things start to pick up for him. After having to wait four months between two appearances, he received his next opportunity eleven days later, and to his delight, it was his first time being introduced in the starting berth. A week later he plays against Villa in the Fa Cup, and scores a header.
Why did the header against Villa generate the attention that it did?
To understand the narrative which came about, it might be worth briefly discussing Todorov's narrative theory. In 1969, Todorov proposed a theory which he believed was applicable to all films. He believed that all films follow the same narrative pattern going through. These are the Equilibrium, disequilibrium, acknowledgement, solving and again the equilibrium.
The disequilibrium was when Villa went ahead in the 70th minute. To mirror the words of the commentator, "can't believe it, Villa have stolen the lead against Man City. You cannot believe this! But Milan Baros has put Aston Villa in front. In a game which they have barely had a sniff of the goal. And they might have one leg in the quarter final." In the 92nd minute, the score was still 1-0 to Villa, meaning they were on the brink of knocking City out of the competition to enter the quarter finals. In the last second of the game, Richards gets the equaliser. In the post match interview, Micah can hardly believe what just happened on the pitch, and now he's in unfamiliar territory, he swears by mistake which underpins a rawness in the interview, which endears him to the public, as if to say, he's one of us.
A - Being an Fa Cup tie, there was already much at stake. To score an equalizer in the last second of the game provided huge amount of drama.
B. The manner of his goal. By climbing to the top, his header was symbolic. As if to say this is a young player that will climb to the top.
C - One of City's youngest debutants and second start
D - The candid interview where he swore
These things combined, made for a story which would lead to him being praised vociferously.
I played for England at 18, youngest ever defender to play for England. I would say that's bursting onto the scene"
Micahs senior debut at club level was in 05/06. Micah's England debut was in 06/07 which suggests he doesn't necessarily think the phrase needs to be restricted to the first season per se. And through this quote, you see an example of the standard he holds. Standard - something used as a measure, norm, or model in comparative evaluations. Measuring stick is an achievement/accomplishment relative to the position/team/league/competition they're playing in.
So, what makes someone burst onto the scene
A) - They must be vociferously praised (I think the initial point by Richards was that players need to stay grounded. In which case, the phrase is inextricably linked to exposure.)
B) - An accomplishment which sets them apart from players in their position/team/league/competition/age group
C) - Not limited to first season. ''Scene'' suggests visibility, which suggests club and International come into it.
What are the issues with this definition?
The vociferous praise, I'd say. Why? It's predicated on the reception in the media, as opposed to an otherwise good start at any given club. A CB that is defensively astute for a club which.
Give an example of a player which would meet Richard's criteria
One example would be Ansu Fati.
A) After his first start for Barcelona, his stature in the game increased exponentially, as exemplified by the Royal Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) showed interest in him, with Diario AS reporting that the Spanish government had set its sights on granting Fati citizenship with a view to including him in the squad for the 2019 FIFA U-17 World Cup. (Taken from Wikipedia)
B) Youngest offensive player to debut for Barcelona which sets him apart from other attackers, and even offensively orientated midfielders. As according to transfermarkt, only Vincente Martinez (a defender) had an earlier debut for Barcelona
C) Visibility not limited to club football. Spain call up in second season. Ansu Fati became Spain's youngest debutant since 1936 when he took the pitch against Germany,
Finally, let's look at them side by side (Naturally, we have to give leeway to the trajectory of the club. This was before City were competitive.
"Do you not remember my header against Villa. "I played for England at 18, youngest ever defender to play for England. I would say that's bursting onto the scene. " Arguably, a case could be made that Fati also burst onto the scene. Who knows, several years from now he could be a pundit /(or a guest on one of those dramatic shows where they analyse lip reading )something along the lines of Do you not remember when I broke the internet by taking just 5 minutes to score against Inter in the group of death. I played for Spain at 17, youngest ever forward to play for Spain. I would say that's bursting onto the scene.
Owen in 1997/98, yes. Shame about those injuries he had later on, he was amazing back then.Saw the thread title and immediately thought of Owen
Can you expand on this a little?First, let's look at who coined the phrase, if you will. Micah Richards. Now let's look at what he actually said.:
"Do you not remember my header against Villa"
"I played for England at 18, youngest ever defender to play for England. I would say that's bursting onto the scene"
Looking at the quote in isolation, one could be forgiven for thinking the ''header' against Villa was scored on Richards' debut. However, this was not the case. His debut was a cameo appearance in October 2005. Richards had to wait four months for his next cameo appearance. And now things start to pick up for him. After having to wait four months between two appearances, he received his next opportunity eleven days later, and to his delight, it was his first time being introduced in the starting berth. A week later he plays against Villa in the Fa Cup, and scores a header.
Why did the header against Villa generate the attention that it did?
To understand the narrative which came about, it might be worth briefly discussing Todorov's narrative theory. In 1969, Todorov proposed a theory which he believed was applicable to all films. He believed that all films follow the same narrative pattern going through. These are the Equilibrium, disequilibrium, acknowledgement, solving and again the equilibrium.
The disequilibrium was when Villa went ahead in the 70th minute. To mirror the words of the commentator, "can't believe it, Villa have stolen the lead against Man City. You cannot believe this! But Milan Baros has put Aston Villa in front. In a game which they have barely had a sniff of the goal. And they might have one leg in the quarter final." In the 92nd minute, the score was still 1-0 to Villa, meaning they were on the brink of knocking City out of the competition to enter the quarter finals. In the last second of the game, Richards gets the equaliser. In the post match interview, Micah can hardly believe what just happened on the pitch, and now he's in unfamiliar territory, he swears by mistake which underpins a rawness in the interview, which endears him to the public, as if to say, he's one of us.
A - Being an Fa Cup tie, there was already much at stake. To score an equalizer in the last second of the game provided huge amount of drama.
B. The manner of his goal. By climbing to the top, his header was symbolic. As if to say this is a young player that will climb to the top.
C - One of City's youngest debutants and second start
D - The candid interview where he swore
These things combined, made for a story which would lead to him being praised vociferously.
I played for England at 18, youngest ever defender to play for England. I would say that's bursting onto the scene"
Micahs senior debut at club level was in 05/06. Micah's England debut was in 06/07 which suggests he doesn't necessarily think the phrase needs to be restricted to the first season per se. And through this quote, you see an example of the standard he holds. Standard - something used as a measure, norm, or model in comparative evaluations. Measuring stick is an achievement/accomplishment relative to the position/team/league/competition they're playing in.
So, what makes someone burst onto the scene
A) - They must be vociferously praised (I think the initial point by Richards was that players need to stay grounded. In which case, the phrase is inextricably linked to exposure.)
B) - An accomplishment which sets them apart from players in their position/team/league/competition/age group
C) - Not limited to first season. ''Scene'' suggests visibility, which suggests club and International come into it.
What are the issues with this definition?
The vociferous praise, I'd say. Why? It's predicated on the reception in the media, as opposed to an otherwise good start at any given club. A CB that is defensively astute for a club which.
Give an example of a player which would meet Richard's criteria
One example would be Ansu Fati.
A) After his first start for Barcelona, his stature in the game increased exponentially, as exemplified by the Royal Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) showed interest in him, with Diario AS reporting that the Spanish government had set its sights on granting Fati citizenship with a view to including him in the squad for the 2019 FIFA U-17 World Cup. (Taken from Wikipedia)
B) Youngest offensive player to debut for Barcelona which sets him apart from other attackers, and even offensively orientated midfielders. As according to transfermarkt, only Vincente Martinez (a defender) had an earlier debut for Barcelona
C) Visibility not limited to club football. Spain call up in second season. Ansu Fati became Spain's youngest debutant since 1936 when he took the pitch against Germany,
Finally, let's look at them side by side (Naturally, we have to give leeway to the trajectory of the club. This was before City were competitive.
"Do you not remember my header against Villa. "I played for England at 18, youngest ever defender to play for England. I would say that's bursting onto the scene. " Arguably, a case could be made that Fati also burst onto the scene. Who knows, several years from now he could be a pundit /(or a guest on one of those dramatic shows where they analyse lip reading )something along the lines of Do you not remember when I broke the internet by taking just 5 minutes to score against Inter in the group of death. I played for Spain at 17, youngest ever forward to play for Spain. I would say that's bursting onto the scene.