Plea to the board... don't use taxpayers money to furlough staff like Liverpool

[Anustart89]

Your post is an idiot

Hmmm, I'll allow it..

 

[LVGSdive]

If Man Utd do it and then go on to sign Jadon Sancho for what will be presumably a British transfer record there will be a public outrage and rightly so. How can any club not pay their staff and then drop 50-60 million on a couple of players few months later. That 50-60 million would probably cover most of lower end payed staff for decades. It's not right. This goes beyond football.

Well right now there's uncertainty regarding when football is going to restart. Which means that football clubs are losing their usual revenue streams, while maintaining high operating costs that are dependent on those revenue streams.

Therefore, if a club then goes and spends a significant amount on a transfer, they now have those revenue streams in place and the player is seen as an asset.

 

[LVGSdive]

Sickening from all the Prem clubs utilising the furlough scheme. I will be genuinely and quite deeply upset if Utd follow suit.

What if next season doesn't start in August and clubs continue to lose out on tens-hundreds of millions of pounds. Would you be upset if other clubs then Furloughed their staff?

 

[cyril C]

How many members of staff are we looking at here for clubs like Spurs and Liverpool seeing this as worthwhile exercise?

If it's 500 or so then they are basically saying they can't afford £250,000 per week, so potentially £3 million is over the three months this has been system has been setup for, which is alot of money, but an utter PR disaster whichever way you look at it.

If the club won't pay it then all the top players/manger would have to do is take a 10 % hit max to cover this, or the club could just slightly reduce their transfer budget for a summer window that either won't happen, or will likely be greatly affected by this, so the players costs will be greatly reduced. Or of course they could just cover it from the profits they make. Whichever way, unless all clubs do this, then they'll be a stigma attached for the ones that have that will likely cost alot more than any saving long term.

For the flak, and bad feeling they will get for doing this I just don't see it as worthwhile at all, and I hope United steer well clear.

A non-Brit here so need to understand the number clearly. I read from BBC that Government will be paying up to GBP 900 per month for furlough staff?

I will post my comment separately so as not to confuse.

 

[cyril C]

IMO, Man Utd should honour all pay, including staff, part time staff, as well as players wages. WHY should it withhold payment just because there is no gate money for a month or 2?

If we are asked to surrender TV money for the remaining 1/3 of season, that is a separate discussion and all clubs would probably need to review their financial situation for coming season. But we are not at the moment, with only revenue short on gate ticket which is what 2.5m per game, 6-7 games = 15m from March - May. I believe we have that cash in the bank so live through it. Don't even trouble the government, there are many small business that need it more.

In fact, IMO, Utd should pay its due sooner, and allow receivable to come in say 4 weeks later, just be a good citizen. If every large company, or successful business, spend more time screwing the country, instead of giving it back, this is the end.

Whether players or directors should donate part of their salary to charity, is their own business, not an enforced deal.

 

[Nights]

Scenario 1 is what Liverpool are going for. A transfer ban should be placed for any clubs taking advantage of this. That would be fair for all clubs involved.

Agreed. It would be a farce to see Liverpool rely on taxpayers to pay their staff and then they splurge millions of pounds on agents and players in the summer transfer window.

 

[cyril C]

What if next season doesn't start in August and clubs continue to lose out on tens-hundreds of millions of pounds. Would you be upset if other clubs then Furloughed their staff?

What Clubs need to do in July, is different to what clubs are doing in April. Only the British government can afford to pay all their staff at 100% with no revenue coming in for more than 3 months. As a profitable and "senior" club, we should at least do our bit for 1-2 months until the situation is clear.

If 2019 season is cancelled, TV money clawing back, 6-7 home games cancelled, I am sure even MU need to do something drastic. Just not now.

 

[OrcaFat]

What if next season doesn't start in August and clubs continue to lose out on tens-hundreds of millions of pounds. Would you be upset if other clubs then Furloughed their staff?

There may come a time when that option comes into the equation but not at the first sniff of “free” money.

No-one wants people to lose their jobs but I do not want my tax to pay Liverpool staff wages unless there is no other option to keep those guys in work. If it means poor LFC can’t buy new players for a while, boo frickin hoo.

And yes I would hold Utd to the same standard.

 

[LVGSdive]

What Clubs need to do in July, is different to what clubs are doing in April. Only the British government can afford to pay all their staff at 100% with no revenue coming in for more than 3 months. As a profitable and "senior" club, we should at least do our bit for 1-2 months until the situation is clear.

If 2019 season is cancelled, TV money clawing back, 6-7 home games cancelled, I am sure even MU need to do something drastic. Just not now.

Football clubs are businesses though and currently the situation is very unclear in the short term and long term for them.

There's no guarantee that when/if things are returned to normal, that football clubs will generate the same revenue as prior to the crisis.

People are going to have less disposable income and be smarter about how they spend their money after this. This would have a knock on effect to everything related to football; lower attendances (or lower ticket prices) , less gambling (bookies spend a lot of money advertising/sponsoring football), less Sky/BT Sport subscriptions (I've cancelled my now TV since there's no live sport) which would result in lower TV deals when the new rights come up, less merchandise sold and so on and so forth.

Football clubs have to look at the short term and long term implications of this, obviously most people won't take this sort of thing into account.

 

[OrcaFat]

Football clubs are businesses though and currently the situation is very unclear in the short term and long term for them.

There's no guarantee that when/if things are returned to normal, that football clubs will generate the same revenue as prior to the crisis.

People are going to have less disposable income and be smarter about how they spend their money after this. This would have a knock on effect to everything related to football; lower attendances (or lower ticket prices) , less gambling (bookies spend a lot of money advertising/sponsoring football), less Sky/BT Sport subscriptions (I've cancelled my now TV since there's no live sport) which would result in lower TV deals when the new rights come up, less merchandise sold and so on and so forth.

Football clubs have to look at the short term and long term implications of this, obviously most people won't take this sort of thing into account.

Most people with a brain in their head will certainly take all that into account. I do and it doesn’t change my view about what clubs are doing now.

 

[Born2Lose]

It's funny how the lowest paid staff at a football club don't come into the equation when people excuse themselves streaming games for free.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Rich people and companies with huge profits are greedy cnuts? Colour me amazed.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Can someone explain to me why it makes a difference to you that companies lay off workers that can not actually work during this pandemic so they can be paid by the state, versus being paid by yourseason ticket money. Either way, they are being paid out of your pocket.

Im seeing a lot of hate towards Liverpool and Tottenham for taking these actions, but the argumen that tax payer money should not be used is a little bit comical.

Firstly, The British state is not going to go bankrupt. There is no shortage of public funds available to combat this epidemic. Secondly, you and all other fans are paying the bill regardless of what account it comes from.

Thirdly: Nearly ever club in the UK do NOT pay shareholder dividends. The saving does not go to "some billionaires pocket". It literally remains in the club. The only club that DO pay dividends is Manchester United, and we are paying all staff and players in full throughout the year.

Public opinion is so passionate and short sighted sometimes I wonder how many actually takes time to consider the sense of their argument.

For the record: ive always been on the side that wants the players to take paycuts to keep the backroom staff in employment. But i also very much underrstand the reason for laying off staff in a time like this. Feelings don't pay the bills.

Edit: There are a lot of people upset that players are not furloughed with staff, or have been the first ones to take a paycut. The simple reason to this is that the PFA adviced the players NOT to take paycuts. There are legal questions to weed out first, primarily if there are potential breaches of contract and if that allows the players to break his contract with the club. This HAS to be ironed out before the club can say "You take paycuts".

I was hoping someone in here would have this opinion too.

 

[hubbuh]

It's funny how the lowest paid staff at a football club don't come into the equation when people excuse themselves streaming games for free.

Wha?

 

[anant]

What Pool and Spurs have done isn't illegal or anything, but is just plain wrong and unethical! And it's not just their brand image that will take a hit, it's also going to impact how their employees - players, coaching and non-coaching staff view them as. If their employers can't show any loyalty, then why should they. The groundsman, security, and all the other staff can just resign 1 day before a crucial game and not a single soul will blame them. These are established clubs, with billionaires as their owners, have recorded profit and can easily pay the staff, if they decide the executives will take a pay cut - something even WBA have done!

If a Chmapionship team or even the smaller teams in PL do this - like Bournemouth, etc. people wouldn't create such a fuss, because of their stature. Pool and Spurs doing this has basically given license to every club across the nation to furlough their staff and that is a dangerous precedent to set in these times

 

[OrcaFat]

I was hoping someone in here would have this opinion too.

If, say, LFC furlough staff, the salaries are then paid from taxation, which I pay (and so do people who don’t even like football). If LFC don’t furlough staff, the salaries are paid by the club (which has not a penny from my pocket) - the club will have to pay from money it has already generated (and yes they might have to be more prudent in future, like all of us).

Utd has some money from my pocket (and most Utd fans) given willingly by us, the fans, in exchange for enjoyment etc, and I rather they spend that money on staff salaries than take money out of all tax payers’ pockets, money which could be better spent elsewhere.

That is the (rather frickin obvious) difference.

 

[AlwaysRed66]

I can see the after effects of this disaster finishing top level football in this country as we know it. The economic aftermath is going to be deadly destroying peoples finances, & last thing people will want to do is spend their falling income on inflated football prices. Even people who can pay will turn against paying subscriptions to SKY/BT. The effects of which will seriously damage PL. That is without what the government, backed by an angry populace are likely to do or want. There is even talk of salary cap, which I have always been against, being implemented, which will finish them as powers in the world. The positive thing is Man Utd should be least effected, particularly if we can get rid of the Glazer leeches & avoid salary cap. We should be in strong position.

When/if this does happen, I am sure everyone can say thank you to parasites such as Levy, Ashley, Liverpool venture capitalists, & all the dense greedy footballers.

 

[tomaldinho1]

What Pool and Spurs have done isn't illegal or anything, but is just plain wrong and unethical! And it's not just their brand image that will take a hit, it's also going to impact how their employees - players, coaching and non-coaching staff view them as. If their employers can't show any loyalty, then why should they. The groundsman, security, and all the other staff can just resign 1 day before a crucial game and not a single soul will blame them. These are established clubs, with billionaires as their owners, have recorded profit and can easily pay the staff, if they decide the executives will take a pay cut - something even WBA have done!

If a Chmapionship team or even the smaller teams in PL do this - like Bournemouth, etc. people wouldn't create such a fuss, because of their stature. Pool and Spurs doing this has basically given license to every club across the nation to furlough their staff and that is a dangerous precedent to set in these times

Exactly, it's allowed but it is unquestionably immoral. In fairness to Pool at least, their fans do seem to be giving the club a lot of shit for it.

For big businesses, the government should be the one assessing whether they need financial aid or not - not giving free reign to businesses to apply. If you give a business owner the choice to save 80% on salaries or not to, guess which they'll choose? Liverpool and Spurs are probably the two clubs that bang on about 'net spend' and profits the most out of the whole PL and yet they're sucking a monumental amount of money out of the pot which is designed to keep SMEs afloat.

 

[red thru&thru]

I can see the after effects of this disaster finishing top level football in this country as we know it. The economic aftermath is going to be deadly destroying peoples finances, & last thing people will want to do is spend their falling income on inflated football prices. Even people who can pay will turn against paying subscriptions to SKY/BT. The effects of which will seriously damage PL. That is without what the government, backed by an angry populace are likely to do or want. There is even talk of salary cap, which I have always been against, being implemented, which will finish them as powers in the world. The positive thing is Man Utd should be least effected, particularly if we can get rid of the Glazer leeches & avoid salary cap. We should be in strong position.

When/if this does happen, I am sure everyone can say thank you to parasites such as Levy, Ashley, Liverpool venture capitalists, & all the dense greedy footballers.

Glazer leeches? They have done the right thing so far, give credit where credit is due...and people on here will tell you, I'm no Glazer fan.

 

[sp_107]

We are second biggest spenders in last 7 years (It's not their fault if we signed wrong players as they never involved or forced managers to buy certain players)
They returned money to away fans who booked the tickets to Austria, may be not much but every little helps in these difficult situations.
Now they are paying money to staff on time.
Recently news came out that they are planning stadium rennovation.

May not be the best but not worse for sure.

 

[clarkydaz]

We are second biggest spenders in last 7 years (It's not their fault if we signed wrong players as they never involved or forced managers to buy certain players)
They returned money to away fans who booked the tickets to Austria, may be not much but every little helps in these difficult situations.
Now they are paying money to staff on time.
Recently news came out that they are planning stadium rennovation.

May not be the best but not worse for sure.

Really, could you elaborate on this?

 

[sp_107]

Really, could you elaborate on this?

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/manchester-united-old-trafford-carrinngton-review-ed-woodward

 

[LVGSdive]

Most people with a brain in their head will certainly take all that into account. I do and it doesn’t change my view about what clubs are doing now.

You also don't own or operate a Premier League football club. Businesses with a declining income have to cut costs.

 

[red thru&thru]

All comes down to how a club have managed their accounts. A company like Microsoft have $1bn in cash reserves, for unforeseen situations.

United clearly have not mismanaged their accounts as half as people will like you to believe.

 

[tenpoless]

Don't worry We have loads of money.

And if you think We're gonna do the same thing as Liverpool, think again, We didn't mind paying for Phil Jones contract renewal, Sanchez's wages when He plays in Italy, signing Schneiderlin and Fellaini, the list goes on and on. We're very generous when it comes into money and We're not going to stop anytime soon. Even without pandemic around, We threw money at everyone. Why do you think in such an urgent situation We wouldn't pay the staffs wages?

Money for him, for her, for them, for you, for everyone! Do We need more money? new 20 sponsorship deals incoming. And then We spend most of it in 3 years, for the past it version of Lewandowski. Repeat the cycle (minus covid19).

 

[imamuppet]

Can see who the idiots and sociopaths are !

 

[cyril C]

Football clubs are businesses though and currently the situation is very unclear in the short term and long term for them.

There's no guarantee that when/if things are returned to normal, that football clubs will generate the same revenue as prior to the crisis.

People are going to have less disposable income and be smarter about how they spend their money after this. This would have a knock on effect to everything related to football; lower attendances (or lower ticket prices) , less gambling (bookies spend a lot of money advertising/sponsoring football), less Sky/BT Sport subscriptions (I've cancelled my now TV since there's no live sport) which would result in lower TV deals when the new rights come up, less merchandise sold and so on and so forth.

Football clubs have to look at the short term and long term implications of this, obviously most people won't take this sort of thing into account.

I don't know exactly how much you guys are getting from government, according to BBC every person can only get GBP 900 per month. Let's say it is 1K per month, assuming 200 low wage staff are furlough. so 200K a month, let's say for 3 months = 600K.

So a Club like MU will survive LONGER because we have just saved 600K? This is 2 weeks of Sanchez warming our bench. In fact, is Sanchez supposed to receive 1m LOYALTY bonus upon his return?

If we can furlough Sanchez then you have my vote...

 

[Charles Miller]

At any country is the same thing: you see much more outrage when public money is used to help workers with their wages, than when its used to feed banks with trillions. I have an opinion about this kind of mentality, but i'll not post here or they will ban me.

 

[Hughie77]

Question is, how will Liverpool fans paint themselves as the victims here?

Agree . How they will try to put some spin on it, but how? It's a typical pool thing they would do, they have never had class. And fans have long memories , this won't be forgotten. They are leaving those walk alone arnt they!

It's going to save them reportedly just £1 million , disgraceful, I wonder if it's to pay the staff in Boston Red Sox!

 

[Hughie77]

I don't know exactly how much you guys are getting from government, according to BBC every person can only get GBP 900 per month. Let's say it is 1K per month, assuming 200 low wage staff are furlough. so 200K a month, let's say for 3 months = 600K.

So a Club like MU will survive LONGER because we have just saved 600K? This is 2 weeks of Sanchez warming our bench. In fact, is Sanchez supposed to receive 1m LOYALTY bonus upon his return?

If we can furlough Sanchez then you have my vote...

I'm hoping to get 80% of my wage? I've been off now for the 3rd week coming up. I get paid monthly so I'm due on 26th April? How much I don't know I've worked it out, I'm out of pocket by around £400. .. if I get £900 , it will be enough to get me through , until I can get back to work. Life's unfair we have to deal with it, that's if there a job to even go back to?

 

[swedishgloryhunter]

I've seen the same greed in Sweden. Volvo got the same treatment from the government where they payed a big amount of the salary of the employes and then Volvo went out and payed out millions to shareholders.
This kind of behaviour will damage reputation but people will forget, just like people forget everything else.

 

[Gasolin]

I'm glad to hear United is doing the right thing, and hope that also changes how players and neutral fans sees the club. And hopefully, they also see what Liverpool is not at this time, a classy club. If brands perception and image could stay that way for a while, it would be fantastic. I'm sure the sports side will follow.

 

[OrcaFat]

You also don't own or operate a Premier League football club. Businesses with a declining income have to cut costs.

How come some clubs are furloughing as fast as they can and some not? There is a choice.

Pure business sensibility will tend to the decision that makes most money (or minimises decline in capital etc) and will not give a toss about the moral component. That’s just good business innit? Well that’s what I have a problem with - LFC and the other c*^ts can stick their sensible business decisions up their arses.

 

[Snuffkin]

Well done man utd for seeing the bigger picture. Liverpool don't deserve the league title after their shabbyness.

 

[cyril C]

I'm hoping to get 80% of my wage? I've been off now for the 3rd week coming up. I get paid monthly so I'm due on 26th April? How much I don't know I've worked it out, I'm out of pocket by around £400. .. if I get £900 , it will be enough to get me through , until I can get back to work. Life's unfair we have to deal with it, that's if there a job to even go back to?

The purpose of such a scheme, is for small business to survive, such that they can return to operation when business activities resume in 2-3 months time. Hope all will work out but most important of all, all stay healthy.

 

[LVGSdive]

How come some clubs are furloughing as fast as they can and some not? There is a choice.

Every club has different incomes and expenditures. In addition to having different plans in place.

 

[tenpoless]

but please, Woodward, if you do nothing else positive in your time at the club, do not look at these clubs and think we should do the same.

Ed Woodward : "I hear you my son"

 

[OrcaFat]

Every club has different incomes and expenditures. In addition to having different plans in place.

Pretty sure it has eff all to do with that. It’s mainly down to business ethics. You may have noticed LFC have backtracked. You still think LFC “needed” to cut costs?

 

[Rozay]

What’s our business got to do with Alison Plea?