PL's best midfielders

[mwake]

When Lampard, Scholes, Keane, Veria, iniestI, xavi get the ball they look up and see a complete team of great players around them. They are surrounded by intelligent players and technically great players, when Gerrard gets the ball he looked up and had to look at the likes of Traore, biscan, baros, Heskey, Murphy, Downing, Carroll and many many more average footballers he had to share a team with. The fact that he had such a remarkable career surrounded by lesser players is an amazing feat.

Lampard, Scholes, Keane, Veria, iniestI, xavi all played in complete teams, Gerrard achieved relative excellence whilst being handicapped.

 

[mwake]

In a highlights package Gerrard is spectacular. But if I am watching him week in week out he's too adventurous in his play as a CM. Trying ridiculous shots and audacious passes giving up possession needlessly. Would and did my head in especially for England. I've always been more of a Scholes and Lampard type of guy. As a kid Scholes never stood out for me but the more I understood about the game the more I took notice of what he was doing, exceptional footballing brain, hard stumped to find a better English CM in that mould.

I respect your view internet bud but when you mention Gerrard looking good in a highlights package it sounds as if you are trying to make an insult out of a compliment. Gerrards match ratings were constantly in the 8/9/10s that's not indicative of someone who is just a highlights player.

 

[Green_Red]

The problem for me about choosing potential players is that when you list midfielders most of them bar Viera wouldnt have gotten into our 99 midfield. And then, there arent many midfields in Prem history that Keane and Scholes wouldnt have gotten into except for that Arsenal team. Which says a lot really for all the debates.

Top 3 best midfielders in the Prem;

Keane
Viera
Scholes

That doesnt mean Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Silva, De Bruyne, Essien, Makalele dont deserve to be very close but anyone from the second list would be replaced by any from the first 3 in a startig XI.

 

[Sky1981]

Honestly, it's like you're incapable of reading. I said Scholes as the best Technically gifted midfielder in the PL even at 35 years of age. You keep harping on about how he wasn't the best midfielder. I didn't say at 35 he was the best midfielder. I said he was the best Technical midfielder, if you don't know what that term means then I don't know what to tell you. Here, i'll break it down for you again. Technical ability wise he was the best. He could pass a football with a range of passing and consistency that was totally unmatched and his one touch football was above every other midfielder in the league (yes at 35).

I'll say it again in a way that you might be able to understand. Paul Scholes was, even at 35. The absolute best Technically able midfielder in the league and still one of the best centre mids precisely because of his technical ability. The fact that you are unable to name someone better is a pretty damning testimony. Comparing the ability to chest a ball down with being able to play 40 yard perfect passes over the heads of defenders every single time are such ridiculously different skill sets in terms of determining a game that your argument (which you don't even seem to be able to grasp yourself) is distinctly lacking.

I'll say it again, please try and respond to the actual question for the 3rd time because you've avoided the question thrice, which indicates you know there wasn't one. Who was a better Technically gifted centre mid than Paul Scholes, when he came out of retirement at 35?

The term technically gifted is as bogus as its gets. You cant create a sub criteria as you like to claim scholes was the best.

If maradonna comes back from retirement and plays for 6 mths. You cant say he still was a technical dribbling god for what he did 20 years ago. It's what he did on that 6mths that counts.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Chelsea record in Europe with a Lampard midfield and where they reached -
2004 Semi Final -beating Arsenal invincible on the way)
2005 Semi final (beating Barcelona league champs and losing to Liverpool Ghost goal),
2007 Semi final (beat Barcelona the current European champs in the groups then lost to Liverpool in pens),
2008 Final (beating last year finalists Liverpool),
2009 Semi final (robbed by Barcelona who needed referee assistance despite having Xavi Iniesta and Messi on what was one of the most biased embarrassing ref displays in CL history. Chelsea deserved to go through and their midfield more than impressed against the greatest midfield ever)
2012 Winners (beating both Barcelona and Bayern Munich)

to conclude, a Chelsea midfield with Lampard, very rarely did anything of note against Europe's elite.

Liverpool record vs Europe's elite with Gerrard
2005 Winners - (beating previous finalists Juve and Jose Mourinho unstoppable Chelsea en route before the average Steven Gerrard inspired the greatest comeback in history)
2007 finalists (beating current holders Barcelona another scalp of European elite, before losing to a Star studded Milan in a closely contested final
2008 semi finals (defeated by a rampaging Chelsea side)
2009 quarters (smashing Real Madrid 5-0 aggregate before once again succumbing to Chelsea who were now a European Elite)

To conclude, Gerrard did nout against European Elite

At least your conclusion is finally correct. Well done.

Scholes' and Keane must have a crap record in Europe then.

 

[cvb]

Yaya is an interesting one. He was an absolute monster of player and had unbelievable striking technique but you knew if City played two in midfield (particularly in the latter stages of his career) that he just wouldn't bother to cover the spaces. Probably unlucky not to win a POTY award though, his stats were incredible at times.

In my opinion his 2013/14 season at City was the single-best midfield performance the league has ever seen. 20 goals, 9 assists, 40 chances created. Monstrous. I’m not claiming he’s the best PL midfielder ever, but he just dominated the league that season. It was a crime that he was overlooked for POTY.

 

[roonster09]

In my opinion his 2013/14 season at City was the single-best midfield performance the league has ever seen. 20 goals, 9 assists, 40 chances created. Monstrous. I’m not claiming he’s the best PL midfielder ever, but he just dominated the league that season. It was a crime that he was overlooked for POTY.

Lampard in 2009-10, 22 goals, 14 assists. 114 chances created.

 

[iHicksy]

The term technically gifted is as bogus as its gets. You cant create a sub criteria as you like to claim scholes was the best.

If maradonna comes back from retirement and plays for 6 mths. You cant say he still was a technical dribbling god for what he did 20 years ago. It's what he did on that 6mths that counts.

You literally have no point and are seemingly unable to comprehend which abilities are integral to being classed as outstanding in which position. Your "argument" is ridiculous. I'm starting to worry you may be a bit simple. Scholes changed to a deep lying play maker and was widely regarded as the best in that position, even at 35. It's nothing to do with "sub criteria" it's simply that to be one of the best you have fantastic technical ability, and he had more than any other centre mid.

Scholes came back and WAS the best passer in the premier league at 35. Saying Maradonna coming back and playing for 6 months just further backs up my point, since A, during his come back he wouldn't be the best dribbler during that time and B no one is saying Scholes is the best based on how he used to be. It's how he freaking was at 35 - literally at 35 he WAS the best passer of the ball in the league still. Do you understand?

The fact that you've failed to name a better passer of the ball than Scholes when he was 35 just proves you know you're wrong, and hence why you keep talking absolute rubbish.

 

[Sky1981]

You literally have no point and are seemingly unable to comprehend which abilities are integral to being classed as outstanding in which position. Your "argument" is ridiculous. I'm starting to worry you may be a bit simple. Scholes changed to a deep lying play maker and was widely regarded as the best in that position, even at 35. It's nothing to do with "sub criteria" it's simply that to be one of the best you have fantastic technical ability, and he had more than any other centre mid.

Scholes came back and WAS the best passer in the premier league at 35. Saying Maradonna coming back and playing for 6 months just further backs up my point, since A, during his come back he wouldn't be the best dribbler during that time and B no one is saying Scholes is the best based on how he used to be. It's how he freaking was at 35 - literally at 35 he WAS the best passer of the ball in the league still. Do you understand?

The fact that you've failed to name a better passer of the ball than Scholes when he was 35 just proves you know you're wrong, and hence why you keep talking absolute rubbish.

Save with the personal abuse mate. If you dont happen to agree with another poster just agree to disagree. No need to get personal.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

When Lampard, Scholes, Keane, Veria, iniestI, xavi get the ball they look up and see a complete team of great players around them. They are surrounded by intelligent players and technically great players, when Gerrard gets the ball he looked up and had to look at the likes of Traore, biscan, baros, Heskey, Murphy, Downing, Carroll and many many more average footballers he had to share a team with. The fact that he had such a remarkable career surrounded by lesser players is an amazing feat.

Lampard, Scholes, Keane, Veria, iniestI, xavi all played in complete teams, Gerrard achieved relative excellence whilst being handicapped.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but as regards Keane he was just as brilliant for an unexceptional Ireland team as he was for Utd.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Definitely not Steven Gerrard. Even Nigel de Jong was better!

Really though, I always liked Lampard. And Bergkamp.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Definitely not Steven Gerrard. Even Nigel de Jong was better!

Really though, I always liked Lampard. And Bergkamp.

Bergkamp was a great midfielder indeed

 

[MrVolley]

Viera was a beast of a player when on form. Always feared him as much as Henry

 

[tra1nee]

When Lampard, Scholes, Keane, Veria, iniestI, xavi get the ball they look up and see a complete team of great players around them. They are surrounded by intelligent players and technically great players, when Gerrard gets the ball he looked up and had to look at the likes of Traore, biscan, baros, Heskey, Murphy, Downing, Carroll and many many more average footballers he had to share a team with. The fact that he had such a remarkable career surrounded by lesser players is an amazing feat.

Lampard, Scholes, Keane, Veria, iniestI, xavi all played in complete teams, Gerrard achieved relative excellence whilst being handicapped.

yeah but you could also argue gerrards best form was when xabi Alonso was at liverpool
look at the goals he scored the seasons Alonso was playing with him

 

[Pow]

yeah but you could also argue gerrards best form was when xabi Alonso was at liverpool
look at the goals he scored the seasons Alonso was playing with him

When he had that season with torres he wasnt a midfielder.

 

[mwake]

Compared to all the other players touted on this list, Gerrard consistently played in the worst team full stop, that's the point I'm making but his personal individual awards are extremely high in contrast to this. Literally dragged liverpool to success.

 

[Sky1981]

yeah but you could also argue gerrards best form was when xabi Alonso was at liverpool
look at the goals he scored the seasons Alonso was playing with him

Was that the benitez year where he ends up partnering torres upfront? Or as a very attacking AM?

 

[Pow]

Was that the benitez year where he ends up partnering torres upfront? Or as a very attacking AM?

He played the same role rooney did for rvp. I would hardly call that midfield. I can remember loads of instances that season he was playing off torres.

 

[Sky1981]

He played the same role rooney did for rvp. I would hardly call that midfield. I can remember loads of instances that season he was playing off torres.

Yes. I remember that year. He was bordering a shadow striker that year.

Credit where it's due. Gerrard's playstyle means he will work everywhere. He doesnt need to pass it around, when he's on song he can be very direct and effective

 

[mwake]

Problem with Gerrard was that he was the most complete jack of all trades midfieder out of the lot, yes more than Xavi and ineista too. He could dribble better than veira and Keane, head the ball better than Xavi and ineista, press and tackle better than Scholes and Lampard all this and still have excellent passing and shooting skills.

To his detriment, because of his jack of all trades image and the fact he played in average teams some people tend to class him below other greats but it's amazing how Gerrard always seemed to excel in no matter what position you played him in.

 

[Irwin99]

Problem with Gerrard was that he was the most complete jack of all trades midfieder out of the lot, yes more than Xavi and ineista too. He could dribble better than veira and Keane, head the ball better than Xavi and ineista, press and tackle better than Scholes and Lampard all this and still have excellent passing and shooting skills.

To his detriment, because of his jack of all trades image and the fact he played in average teams some people tend to class him below other greats but it's amazing how Gerrard always seemed to excel in no matter what position you played him in.

I think it's more to do with the fact that often his best performances tended to come when he was played somewhere other than central midfield or as the most advanced of a 3. His first half in Istanbul was pretty awful until Rafa tweaked his tactics, his FA cup final heroics came from the right of midfield, his best league campaign came when he played behind Torres. Also, wasn't that the year Rafa subbed him against Everton because he kept leaving his midfield position and leaving gaps all over the place?

Phenomenal attacking midfielder though.

 

[Pow]

I think it's more to do with the fact that often his best performances tended to come when he was played somewhere other than central midfield or as the most advanced of a 3. His first half in Istanbul was pretty awful until Rafa tweaked his tactics, his FA cup final heroics came from the right of midfield, his best league campaign came when he played behind Torres. Also, wasn't that the year Rafa subbed him against Everton because he kept leaving his midfield position and leaving gaps all over the place?

Phenomenal attacking midfielder though.

Didnt he put hamaan on and push gerrard forward out the middle iirc ?

 

[Irwin99]

Didnt he put hamaan on and push gerrard forward out the middle iirc ?

Yes, start of the second half. Gerrard and Alonso were really struggling with Kaka in particular if i remember right. Gerrard played as an advanced midfielder and then as a right back for the rest of the game I think.

He was a versaitle player, a bit like Roy Keane who played pretty much everywhere in his early united career. Just don't think he was in Keane or Vieria's class as a pure central midfielder.

 

[Stacks]

The problem for me about choosing potential players is that when you list midfielders most of them bar Viera wouldnt have gotten into our 99 midfield. And then, there arent many midfields in Prem history that Keane and Scholes wouldnt have gotten into except for that Arsenal team. Which says a lot really for all the debates.

Top 3 best midfielders in the Prem;

Keane
Viera
Scholes

That doesnt mean Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Silva, De Bruyne, Essien, Makalele dont deserve to be very close but anyone from the second list would be replaced by any from the first 3 in a startig XI.

Scholes replcaed neither Gerrard nor Lampard in midfield for England. If Keane and Vieira replace Lampard for Chelsea that makes Essien Keane/Vierira and another defensive midfielder. Which one will make up the 20 goal deficit? I don't think you understand player roles

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Compared to all the other players touted on this list, Gerrard consistently played in the worst team full stop, that's the point I'm making but his personal individual awards are extremely high in contrast to this. Literally dragged liverpool to success.

It's also easier to stand out with less quality around you. If he was in a team that had Ronaldo or Rooney he'd stand out less. Further, I always felt that he was an impact player, one of moments rather than subtley. Someone like Busquets is less likely to be nominated for /win awards and accolades than a second striker.

 

[giorno]

Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't liverpool's best player throughout the knockout stages Luis Garcia? And their MOTM in the final was Dudek?

 

[adexkola]

I know it is inaccurate, but the Jorge Valdano quote comes to mind when thinking of the Chelsea/Liverpool CL clashes of the 2000-2010 period.

No idea whether that is linked to the skillsets of Gerrard and Lampard or the cynicism of Mou and Rafa

 

[Ecstatic]

@Invictus Great post as usual so your post will be my starting point to express my personal views.

Always here to speak about French players: please forget N'golo Kanté, Patrick Vieira and Makélélé are the only one French ambassadors who deserve to be mentioned. Also, I am inclined to consider:

- Bergkamp as a second striker or number 10
- Giggs, Beckham, Pirès: wide midfielders because there are great in a 4-4-2 system while Cristiano is more suited for any form of 4-3-3
- Modric/Fabregas/David Silva as central midfielder or deep-lying playmakers
- Lampard, Gerrard, Yaya Touré as offensive/playmaking box-to-box
- Vieira/Ince as pure defensive box-to-box
- Keane/Scholes/Xabi Alonson as defensive midfielders with playmaking abilities
- Makélélé/Carrick as destroyers

Viera was a beast of a player when on form. Always feared him as much as Henry

Good memories. In 2000, both players were at their prime on the physical level: pace, power and impact on the success on the French victory at the Euro 2000.The 3 best French players were obviously Zidane, Henry and Vieira.

 

[ThierryFabregas]

There's so many different answers with players of different attributes but IMHO I'd vote for Cesc Fabregas because of his control of games, his range of passing, finally his vision, creativity and timing of through balls is the best in PL history imho and I think this video backs this up. Not to mention a goalscorer who had bite in the midfield.


Definitely my favourite and while I might have some bias he's massively underrated

E.g his passing and range of passing and one touch passing was the best in the league, and asked you to name someone who was better at passing than he.

I'd definitely argue Cesc. Because while Scholes had a great range of passing of all ranges, he didn't have Fabregas creativity, vision or timing to create chances from all areas of the pitch.

 

[mwake]

It's also easier to stand out with less quality around you. If he was in a team that had Ronaldo or Rooney he'd stand out less. Further, I always felt that he was an impact player, one of moments rather than subtley. Someone like Busquets is less likely to be nominated for /win awards and accolades than a second striker.

This has been mentioned before that Gerrard was just an impact player. If could be bothered I would copy/paste his ratings that he regularly got form news media. Gerrard constantly got 8/9/10s as ratings, how can you just be an impact player if you are regularly getting high match ratings. I always used to look for match ratings even when Liverpool lost or drew and even thatn Gerrard was generally the stand out player or the player that the other team couldn't keep quiet, this is not symbolic of an impact player. His sensational/Hollywood moments were just the icing on the cake.