Pochettino watch | PSG Manager (18 month contract)

VP89

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Tbf we were a much poorer side and had a managerial change midway through the season, context plays a part too. We were incredibly lucky but Ole definitely deserves some praise for getting a result there.

This was the team that was put out that day:



Our subs were: Dalot, Rojo, Romero, Garner, Chong, Greenwood, Gomes :lol:
]
Ole had to win by two goals away and did it with a starting midfield of Pereira, Fred, McT and Young. Two completely unproven youngsters in Chong and Greenwood came on as subs. PSG didn't have over 30 shots on the night either, they had 12. It's not the same at all.
Both fair points - worth also noting the Bayern side yesterday is comfortably better than the PSG side we faced.
 
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kouroux

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It looks like you need a judge of the Supreme Court :D

In 2020/2021, Poch and Tuchel are both disappointing at the domestic level for the reasons you know:
- key players injured or tested positive
- players like Neymar/Draxler/Mbappe.. who don't like to defend against small teams
- Thiago Silva left :mad: and not replaced
- quality of the squad on the decline

'Still too early to assess the value of Poch' I would say
There is nothing to judge tbh, all I said is "so far". Pochettino will have an impact on them at some point, it just hasn't happened yet
 

TheGame

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It was a very good result from a poor performance saved by individual quality and poor finishing by the opposition. I don't care about PSG or Poch, but let's not pretend the result had much to do with tactics or "patterns of play". Sometimes the better team doesn't win, it's nothing new.
Exactly this.
 

VP89

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I'm sorry but this is nonsense, how can 30 shots be an arbitrary figure? It means the team were exposed again and again and the poor finishing saved. Against us in 2019, the stats were:
Shots
PSG 12 - 4 United

Shots on target
PSG 4 - 4 United

PSG had alot of possession against us but we were no where near outplayed to the extend PSG were yesterday. The reaction is different because the matches were different. There was no game plan from PSG aside to give the ball to Neymar and Mbappe. There was no effective set up to counter attack, the midfield kept getting exposed. However you do need luck and it was Bayern's fault for not scoring. If they get through in the second leg, it would be an amazing achievement.
I'm looking at XG here more, and Bayern's XG was just over 4 goals. As I said before it's more the context of how the result of getting 3 away goals was better, and even if they had let in 4 on the day it's a good result with 90 minutes left in Paris.
For us, we were chasing that game so it's a different approach. Also our approach was no different, by the way, we weren't trying to pull PSG apart with any intricate patterns of play. We would try and hit on the counter with Rashford/Lukaku and that's pretty much all (not that I blame Ole for that because I accept he had a far weaker side).
Whilst wholly accepting Ole had a weaker side to what Poch has, it's also worth noting this Bayern side is a much tougher opposition than the PSG side we played.
 

romufc

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If that was United the story would have been "class Mbappe saves Ole".

Complete robbery of a result but, you do also need some luck to win things. The tie is not over though. Bayern can put 5 or 6 past PSG the way they looked.
If it was Ole getting that result, you would see all the Ole out crowd on here saying how he cannot manage and relies on individual brilliance, how can a team play like that.

PSG have even bigger talents than United and played that way. The lesson here is, play to your strengths. PSG are a big threat on the counter with their pace, similar to United, so it would be naive for a manager not to use that to their advantage.
 

Massive Spanner

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If it was Ole getting that result, you would see all the Ole out crowd on here saying how he cannot manage and relies on individual brilliance, how can a team play like that.

PSG have even bigger talents than United and played that way. The lesson here is, play to your strengths. PSG are a big threat on the counter with their pace, similar to United, so it would be naive for a manager not to use that to their advantage.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/post-match-vs-paris-st-germain.458316/

Look at everyone in there shitting all over Ole! Oh wait, no they're not.
 

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We were better than PSG that game and deserve the win. Its not the right comparison.
It's the right comparison because any comparison like that is a good one, regardless of how we played or how they played. Can anyone actually find a thread where loads of people shit on Ole after a great win against a top team? If anything all I'm seeing in here is people shitting on Poch!
 

saivet

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I think the context of the game is important, as PSG went up a goal early and scored a second within half an hour. They were getting peppered and they got lucky, but the fact they went 2-0 up at least provided them with an incentive not to take too many risks. I don't think PSG can afford to play like that in the 2nd leg but they did score 2 good goals and had a few other opportunities/tight offside calls too.
 

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We easily won that game, wrong comparison, if Poch put in that performance v Bayern last night then he would rightly be the messiah and not just a naughty boy. :D
it's not my point though. I've never seen people be critical of Ole on here when we beat a top team, it doesn't happen, except for maybe a select few idiots who suck all the joy out of all life.

If anything this thread seems to be more full of people wanting to criticise Poch after his side got a great win. I wonder why?
 

Ecstatic

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There is nothing to judge tbh, all I said is "so far". Pochettino will have an impact on them at some point, it just hasn't happened yet
A football forum is all about people judging people.
 
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Halftrack

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Good result, a classic smash-and-grab. Hard to criticise him for getting an away win against Bayern, but it's hardly a came you can hold up as a tactical masterclass. They rode their luck, but even good teams need to do that on occasion.
 

MU655

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I'm sorry but this is nonsense, how can 30 shots be an arbitrary figure? It means the team were exposed again and again and the poor finishing saved them. Against us in 2019, the stats were:
Shots
PSG 12 - 4 United

Shots on target
PSG 4 - 4 United

PSG had alot of possession against us but that was expected considering our line up but we were no where near outplayed to the extend PSG were yesterday. The reaction is different because the matches were different. There was no game plan from PSG aside to give the ball to Neymar and Mbappe. There was no effective set up to counter attack, the midfield kept getting exposed. However you do need luck and it was Bayern's fault for not scoring. If they get through in the second leg, it would be an amazing achievement.
If it wasn't for PSG's defence in 2019, we wouldnt have won. That game plan only worked because they gifted us three goals.

Kimpembe handball. The defender passing it straight to Lukaku to run in and score. Buffon messing up. We didn't actually create anything ourselves in that game.

We may have defended better. Not surprising with a 9-man defence, but our attacking was actually non-existent.
 

Berbasbullet

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it's not my point though. I've never seen people be critical of Ole on here when we beat a top team, it doesn't happen, except for maybe a select few idiots who suck all the joy out of all life.

If anything this thread seems to be more full of people wanting to criticise Poch after his side got a great win. I wonder why?
The point people are making is that the narrative after we win a hard game where we have been counter attacking you hear the usual platitudes like “individual skill has bailed ole out” (as you have conceded in your post there are idiots who killjoy) , and then posters are now in a rush to talk about how amazing Poch was tonight.

Just for the record I think Poch deserves credit for the result.
 

thepolice123

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It's the right comparison because any comparison like that is a good one, regardless of how we played or how they played. Can anyone actually find a thread where loads of people shit on Ole after a great win against a top team? If anything all I'm seeing in here is people shitting on Poch!
Why would Ole get shit on if we deserve the win? :confused:

People are criticising Poch because it was a pretty poor performance and PSG didn't deserve the win. You have compare performances in itself, just because he got the win doesn't mean he is free from it.

The last time we did a smash and grab like that against Brighton, Ole got utterly destroyed here.
 

Phil Osophy

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I don't think defending deep and playing counter-attack is a bad thing per se if it's the occasional set-up and not a weekly thing. Nothing shameful about it against Bayern.

But the point of defending that way is precisely protecting your box so you don't concede many clear chances, trying to surprise at the break. If you are a red carpet anyway and concede 31 shots (4.14 xG) and barely cross midfield with 6 attempts (1.54 xG) then you don't need a bit of luck but a miracle, which is what happened yesterday.

If it's more the players or the manager, difficult to know. But it's the second CL game in a row where they look like a broken toy in the hands of the opposition. That second game against Barcelona was very poor, it could have ended in accident and yesterday got even worse.

Honestly and with all due respect to the man, I'm not sure if PSG made the right call with Pochettino, regardless of the ball going in or not. Better than Ole and whatever people want, but he couldn't be farther from being the aggressive winner that teams like PSG are looking for to win the CL desperately. Pochettino has been excellent at developing players and building his own basis patiently at Spurs, without much pressure around. But when he had a proper team to aim for something they were melting under pressure in key days with very unconvincing displays, with the rare occasional exception.

When I see this PSG team they look the same bottlers again, always at the brink of a mess. They got away with it against Barcelona, but if Lewandowski is there and the tendency of the game remains the same, I can't see how these guys are going through, and then they have to beat a pair of teams more. The fact of not leading their league is laughable by the way, like the guy is allergic to trophies.

Honestly I don't know how a PSG team desperate to win the CL by the quickest route avoids a good tactician like Allegri for example, and hires a minimum goals achiever like Pochettino. Difficult to understand.
 

TheGame

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If it wasn't for PSG's defence in 2019, we wouldnt have won. That game plan only worked because they gifted us three goals.

Kimpembe handball. The defender passing it straight to Lukaku to run in and score. Buffon messing up. We didn't actually create anything ourselves in that game.

We may have defended better. Not surprising with a 9-man defence, but our attacking was actually non-existent.
I don't remember PSG creating much either aside from the chances they took. They goals yesterday were also due to defensive mistakes - Neuer, Boateng. We were more compact and allowed them to have the ball but they really didn't do much with it. Yesterday, Bayern were carving PSG open all over the place.
 

romufc

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You could pick any game where we've beaten a top team and he always gets praised for it. That's my point.
Yes, on the occasion he gets praised but the recurring theme even when he gets praised is that he has no style of play, patterns of play and relies on individual brilliance, even in the big games.

Those who criticise him of that, wanted Poch, who served exactly Ole tactics yesterday.
 

Massive Spanner

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Why would Ole get shit on if we deserve the win? :confused:

People are criticising Poch because it was a pretty poor performance and PSG didn't deserve the win. You have compare performances in itself, just because he got the win doesn't mean he is free from it.

The last time we did a smash and grab like that against Brighton, Ole got utterly destroyed here.
Of course he did, because it's Brighton, not Bayern.
 

Massive Spanner

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Yes, on the occasion he gets praised but the recurring theme even when he gets praised is that he has no style of play, patterns of play and relies on individual brilliance, even in the big games.
I'm still waiting for someone to find me a post match thread against a top team where that's been the majority consensus.
 

tomaldinho1

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it's not my point though. I've never seen people be critical of Ole on here when we beat a top team, it doesn't happen, except for maybe a select few idiots who suck all the joy out of all life.

If anything this thread seems to be more full of people wanting to criticise Poch after his side got a great win. I wonder why?
Exactly this - no reasonable poster critiqued the performance against PSG (both games this year) because even though we won one and lost one, the setup was good and we were able to clearly put our game plan into action. I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp for people.

Criticise Pochettino when there's something to criticise him for - not when they've just beaten Bayern away from home with three away goals in a knock out game.
 

MU655

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I don't remember PSG creating much either aside from the chances they took. They goals yesterday were also due to defensive mistakes - Neuer, Boateng. We were more compact and allowed them to have the ball but they really didn't do much with it. Yesterday, Bayern were carving PSG open all over the place.
But they didn't really need to. And I think that made them lackadaisical. They already had the 2-0 advantage, so they would have gone through if not for those defender's mistakes.

A major difference is that that was a second leg that PSG should have comfortable seen out, and would have, if their defenders didn't decide they wanted to make it a challenge.

The PSG v Munich one was the first leg. Munich didn't have a cushion and they threw everything at PSG, which I don't feel PSG ever did to us. They thought the tie was won. I think they would have won easily if they had the same mentality in their match against us.

There was certainly a difference in mentality from Munich yesterday and when PSG played against us. PSG had more of that in the first leg with a second string midfield, where they beat us comfortably. The second leg was poor application from them.
 
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It's laughable how Poch fans are trying to praise the kind thing they used to repeatedly bash a Mourinho let alone Ole for on here. Poch was lucky Bayern had a really poor night in terms of finishing. Let him repeat this nonsense at home. He will go out.


This was literally the same daylight robbery Ole and United pulled off at Brighton earlier this season in the league. It's never possible to positive spin such obvious robbery.
 

thepolice123

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Of course he did, because it's Brighton, not Bayern.
A poor performance is still a poor performance, regardless of the opposition. Just because he delivered the result doesn't mean he is free from criticism.

How about you find me a game where Ole got an underserved win against a big team and got praised for it.
 

anant

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Ofcourse, it's a massive achievement for them and Poch on beating PSG. But if we're being being completely honest, the game was won because of Bayern's wastefulness in front of goal rather than tactics.

I don't mind teams sitting back and ceding territory. Hell, this was something that was expected of them as PSG and it didn't come as a shock that PSG were relying on Mbappe's pace and Neymar's creativity. However, the thing is his side were never in control.

There are two types of games - One like what we had at Etihad vs City this year (the 2-0 win) and what we had at Etihad last year in LC Semis. Two games similar result but vastly different levels of control. We gave up a lot of the territory and allowed them to stay in our half.

However, in the win this time, we were always/mostly in control. They were trying to break us down, but we did well to close the lanes. Henderson didn't have a lot to do, and no one can say it was a lucky win. In te LC win over City last year, I don't think we were ever in control. We were incredibly lucky to score, were absolutely dominated and had Dave not made a few worldies and City not fluffed a few shots, the scoreline could have been embarrassing. I don't think Ole deserved any credit for tactics that day, just like I don't think Poch put up some tactical masterclass yesterday. Great win with a clear plan, but on the defensive side, the plan failed miserably and they were lucky to get the win
 

Smores

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A poor performance is still a poor performance, regardless of the opposition. Just because he delivered the result doesn't mean he is free from criticism.

How about you find me a game where Ole got an underserved win against a big team and got praised for it.
I think you've got lost in your own circles of arguing here. A poor performance against a poor team like Brighton obviously deserves ctiticism :lol:

The point MS was making is that people shouldn't be playing the 'they'd all moan at Ole' card when it's clearly bollocks. That's as draining as the moaners and is just moaning for the sake of it.

Results are all that matter against big teams in the CL. No manager gets criticised for a win in those games. This idea that the caf would moan about patterns of play in those circumstances is just dumb, we've got a very obvious style of play in those games.
 

antk

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I don't think defending deep and playing counter-attack is a bad thing per se if it's the occasional set-up and not a weekly thing. Nothing shameful about it against Bayern.

But the point of defending that way is precisely protecting your box so you don't concede many clear chances, trying to surprise at the break. If you are a red carpet anyway and concede 31 shots (4.14 xG) and barely cross midfield with 6 attempts (1.54 xG) then you don't need a bit of luck but a miracle, which is what happened yesterday.

If it's more the players or the manager, difficult to know. But it's the second CL game in a row where they look like a broken toy in the hands of the opposition. That second game against Barcelona was very poor, it could have ended in accident and yesterday got even worse.

Honestly and with all due respect to the man, I'm not sure if PSG made the right call with Pochettino, regardless of the ball going in or not. Better than Ole and whatever people want, but he couldn't be farther from being the aggressive winner that teams like PSG are looking for to win the CL desperately. Pochettino has been excellent at developing players and building his own basis patiently at Spurs, without much pressure around. But when he had a proper team to aim for something they were melting under pressure in key days with very unconvincing displays, with the rare occasional exception.

When I see this PSG team they look the same bottlers again, always at the brink of a mess. They got away with it against Barcelona, but if Lewandowski is there and the tendency of the game remains the same, I can't see how these guys are going through, and then they have to beat a pair of teams more. The fact of not leading their league is laughable by the way, like the guy is allergic to trophies.

Honestly I don't know how a PSG team desperate to win the CL by the quickest route avoids a good tactician like Allegri for example, and hires a minimum goals achiever like Pochettino. Difficult to understand.
Regarding the bolded - despite a shaky display in the return leg, they still won the tie 5-2. That's not "getting away with it".

They definitely got away with it yesterday though, and even with big players missing I'm sure they could have been a lot more solid at the back with a different structure, especially after losing Marquinhos at 0-2. Dagba and Bakker were absolutely, very obviously out of their league and should have been helped more with a different setup, and it's a small miracle that no goal came from their sides.

Not convinced by Poch's PSG at all this far, but the return leg can look a lot different if they get back Verratti, Paredes, and their semi-decent LB/RB. Lewandowski was sorely missing at the end of Bayern's actions, but I don't think there would have been half as many with a competent midfield in front of the defense.
 

thepolice123

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I think you've got lost in your own circles of arguing here. A poor performance against a poor team like Brighton obviously deserves ctiticism :lol:

The point MS was making is that people shouldn't be playing the 'they'd all moan at Ole' card when it's clearly bollocks. That's as draining as the moaners and is just moaning for the sake of it.

Results are all that matter against big teams in the CL. No manager gets criticised for a win in those games. This idea that the caf would moan about patterns of play in those circumstances is just dumb, we've got a very obvious style of play in those games.
My point is that if you a deliver a poor performance it is only normal that you will receive criticism. Let's call a spade a spade. Just because its against Bayern he is absolved of it? It wasn't even your run-of-the-mill bad game, it was utter domination 31 shots at goal type of spanking. Not to mention they have one of the most expensive squads ever assembled.

People moan about Ole's style of football all the time. Over here we have a thread that has 77 pages of moaning that has been ongoing for months. Can you say with 100% certainty that there wouldn't be any if we played like what PSG did yesterday?
 

united_99

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So Ole ... eh no ...what I really want to know:

PSG fans tell me how bad the injuries are to your better players who were / got injured yesterday?

It would be so typical of PSG IF they progress only to play City without two or three of Neymar/Mbappe/Marquinhos/Veratti/Di Maria.
 

He'sRaldo

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Let's be honest, the main reason Poch is getting slated for winning away against last season's sextuple winners is because he's been pitted against Ole, the poor guy.

In any case, if we take Ole out of the equation that's a great win for PSG which puts them in a good position for the home leg.
 

Halftrack

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He's doesn't even make a decent effort to troll anymore.
Was he always trolling? I feel like he's a genuine Poch fan who just reslised that he could rile people up by going ott with the praise.

Regardless, yeah his recent efforts have been lacking. That one looks like someone parodying a ca. 2018 Amadaeus post rather than the real deal.
 

Cassidy

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Bayern had like 31 shots so they hardly defended well. Got lucky not to concede at least 5 and scored with a brilliant striker, and a mistake from the keeper. It was a very poor game by the manager but got away with it.
Tends to happen when a team is setup to defend and counter away from home. I agree they didn't defend that well, but you don't score 3 away from home just by luck. The counter worked