Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch

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moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
The game this past Saturday is the first one I've intentionally not watched in a very long time, I'll be sitting with my shitty stream tomorrow tea time, I wish it was easier to dip out like you mate, as I'm completely deflated by the Ole situation and another boring manager on the horizon.
Ah Jose helped wean me off.
 

OverratedOpinion

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He didn't work with the budget of a midtable team. If you look at how they got the low net spend you will realize that there are no starters outside of Walker, they essentially sold deadwood for good money.
I think the point is that what we saw is that his "ceiling" is to overachieve. If someone overachieved with Man Utd given our level of investment then we would be a dominant force.

Therefore his ceiling should not be such a worry.
 

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Brendan also managed 84 points and over a 100 goals with Liverpool.

You can achieve a lot if you have one of the 2-3 strikers in the world in the form of his life. Still it didn't translate to anything tangible for Pochettino
Tbf we’ve got Ronaldo and we’re 7th. Poch was about more than just pumping it up to Harry Kane.
 

Dominos

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Yeah fair points there

I don’t necessarily agree with everything you wrote but I was being a bit harsh

What about his time at PSG? He hasn’t exactly impressed there has he? Are people not worried he might not have that big club mentality in him?
It's not great, so I think it's reasonable to have concerns. But then again, last year was a sample size of half a season.

And now a few months into this season where results have been good but performances have been underwhelming, it's not great but it's not a disaster. Ultimately how do we judge if he has a big club mentality at PSG, he's going to walk the league title, is that enough? Obviously not, because the circumstances are favourable. So he has to win the champions league. Go ask Pep how easy it is to win the champions league with his 10 year drought despite managing the best squads.. It's a bit of a thankless task being at PSG which is probably why he wants out.
 

crossy1686

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We have seen Poch at work and probably seen his ceiling, I am up for taking a chance on a up and coming manager. Ajax isn't a small club and Ten Hag has excelled in the CL. Nothing suggests he couldn't make the step.
We've seen what he can achieve with a top 6 team, small budget and a world class CF, he's deserved a role at a bigger club and now he's won a trophy, will win the league and who know's what will happen in the CL for PSG this year, they'll be in the semi's no doubt at least.

Ten Hag has a way to go yet before he should be considered for any job at United. His CL exploits with Ajax are great and all but I don't see how that helps United win the PL, which as we know, is a totally different kettle of fish.
 

Zlatan 7

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I don’t get why people glorify net spend, he spent a decent amount at Spurs and had one of the top strikers in the world for free.

obviously I’ll support him but going to be disappointed when we go for poch, can’t see him doing anything special to be honest.
 

OverratedOpinion

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Same, I'm not totally against it but the risk vs reward is just too big on him for him to be considered first choice.

Barcelona, Madrid, Chelsea, Juventus, Bayern, Tottenham, Newcastle, Inter and Roma (to name a few) have all replaced their managers in the last 12 months and not a single one of them were linked with Ten Hag, but apparently we HAVE to get him? Something really doesn't add up when you think about it.
I am really not trying to insult anyone but I wonder if the outcry is influenced a bit by football hipsterism.

Maybe that is just me as I always wonder that with us English fans looking at Dutch football which is unquestionably stylish. My number one choice is Roberto Mancini though so maybe I am totally wrong as I have seen very few cries for him.
 

macheda14

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We have seen Poch at work and probably seen his ceiling, I am up for taking a chance on a up and coming manager. Ajax isn't a small club and Ten Hag has excelled in the CL. Nothing suggests he couldn't make the step.
Poch’s ceiling was getting a side with a limited budget relatively close to the prem and very close to the CL. He’d now have a better squad to build from and a much bigger transfer budget. Performances dropped when after 5 years of having pretty much the same starting 11 and a thin squad they were mentally and physically drained. He wasn’t able to replace players when they had dropped off (admittedly we don’t do that too well here either). He’s also younger than Ten Hag, so I don’t know why we’ve seen his ceiling. Some managers do actually grow and get better - see David Moyes (he’s now a far better manager than he was I’d say even at Everton).

I do want Ten Hag personally, but the biggest criticisms levelled against him have been that he isn’t a great communicator and he’s quite softly spoken - he commands respect purely through his methods. One issue that has now come out post Ole being sacked is him being a bit of a soft touch and not ruthless enough. Tbh I think that wouldn’t actually be an issue, but it could be.

Poch and ETH are probably the two front runners come summer and I think each of them will have their pros and their cons. If the choice was Poch soon or ETH in the summer I think I’d take Poch now.
 

Caesar2290

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Poch is basically our late stage Arsene Wenger. Competing but never trully challenging. We're going to win the perenial Top4 cup though. Glazers will be happy though.

Kind of ironic seeing that people have switched from proven winner Conte to perenial challenger Poch.
 

Dominos

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Kane, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertonghen & eventually Son weren't midtable players though.
Does he get any credit for promoting them, developing them or signing them?

Teams at the upper end of the league have some good players. Of course. The teams who win league titles and champions leagues tend to have very good players all over the field and very good players as back up on the bench. Spurs didn't have the resources to achieve that sort of elite club quality. And then you have to consider how much of the perception of the quality of his players was down to him squeezing every ounce of quality out of them, we've seen with Lampard and Ole how easy it is for a manager to make their squad look a lot worse than it is, and you have managers who can do the opposite.

I think the point is that what we saw is that his "ceiling" is to overachieve. If someone overachieved with Man Utd given our level of investment then we would be a dominant force.

Therefore his ceiling should not be such a worry.
Very nicely put.
 

Waynne

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I hope so. He's was the manager that was supposed to be here after Ole interim period.
I would take Poch but he has to bring his own staff in. I don't want Phelan, McKenna or Carrick anywhere near this team. They're not the best in class.
Allow Poch to bring in the best people he can and then I'll be over the moon happy.
 

crossy1686

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I am really not trying to insult anyone but I wonder if the outcry is influenced a bit by football hipsterism.

Maybe that is just me as I always wonder that with us English fans looking at Dutch football which is unquestionably stylish. My number one choice is Roberto Mancini though so maybe I am totally wrong as I have seen very few cries for him.
Possibly, I very much doubt there's many United fans who have watched more than a handful of Ajax games outside the CL in the last 2 years so any opinions on what Ten Hag is like as a manager is either from snippets on YouTube or second hand information from somewhere. We saw this when Jardim won the league with Monaco and did well in the CL, we've also seen it with Nagelsmann recently, and even Pochettino at one point, now it's Ten Hag's turn.

Mine too, I wanted Mancini after the Euro exploits but getting him out of Italy, which is his dream job, will be impossible.
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
Poch is basically our late stage Arsene Wenger. Competing but never trully challenging. We're going to win the perenial Top4 cup though. Glazers will be happy though.

Kind of ironic seeing that people have switched from proven winner Conte to perenial challenger Poch.
Let's see what Conte does with perennially useless Spurs. It will be interesting.
 

Infestissumam

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Kind of ironic seeing that people have switched from proven winner Conte to perenial challenger Poch.
well the Conte boat has sailed thanks to our dithering, so people move on. What do you suggest instead? Continuing to fawn over Conte doesn't help.
 

OverratedOpinion

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Poch is basically our late stage Arsene Wenger. Competing but never trully challenging. We're going to win the perenial Top4 cup though. Glazers will be happy though.

Kind of ironic seeing that people have switched from proven winner Conte to perenial challenger Poch.
He spent most of his career at Spurs and Southampton ffs

He has literally had 6 months of his career where he did not win something that he should have. Other than that he has drastically overachieved and is on course to win the title with over 100 points this season.
 

Caesar2290

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well the Conte boat has sailed thanks to our dithering, so people move on. What do you suggest instead? Continuing to fawn over Conte doesn't help.
My point is how about instead of appointing the first manager that is available, wait till the end of the season before making a decision. A lot more managers might be on the market then.

Say someone like Ten Hag gets to the CL final, but we wouldn't be able to get him because we have proven challenger Poch.

For once I wish the club would delay the instant gratification and actually take it's time before making a decision.
 

crossy1686

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Poch is basically our late stage Arsene Wenger. Competing but never trully challenging. We're going to win the perenial Top4 cup though. Glazers will be happy though.

Kind of ironic seeing that people have switched from proven winner Conte to perenial challenger Poch.
He hasn't managed a big club in England and I'm sure Spurs would love to be consistent top 4 team, feck, we should be happy with that after the 8 years of yo-yoing we've had between 6th and 2nd. Hard to compete when your budget is lower than 5 teams ahead of you and your chairman refuses to back you.
 

Sviken

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Poch is basically our late stage Arsene Wenger. Competing but never trully challenging. We're going to win the perenial Top4 cup though. Glazers will be happy though.

Kind of ironic seeing that people have switched from proven winner Conte to perenial challenger Poch.
I wanted Conte too, but you seriously think Conte is gonna win the league or the CL with fecking Spurs? At best he would get them top 4. Why are people dismissing Poch's achievements so much? You guys are acting like he was in charge of Bayern Munich
 

crossy1686

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My point is how about instead of appointing the first manager that is available, wait till the end of the season before making a decision. A lot more managers might be on the market then.

Say someone like Ten Hag gets to the CL final, but we wouldn't be able to get him because we have proven challenger Poch.

For once I wish the club would delay the instant gratification and actually take it's time before making a decision.
There's some absolutely mental overrating of Ten Hag in here this week.

There's also nothing to suggest getting to a CL final means he'd be any good in the PL.
 

Caesar2290

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He spent most of his career at Spurs and Southampton ffs

He has literally had 6 months of his career where he did not win something that he should have. Other than that he has drastically overachieved and is on course to win the title with over 100 points this season.
We can make the same argument for late stage Wenger. And looking at how Arsenal turned out there is merit to it. Also let's not forget that unlike Poch, Wenger actually kept Arsenal in TOP 4 and won the occasional cup.

Poch's record is similar to Ole. Always chokes when in striking distance of a trophy.

People like Martinez, Redknap and Arteta have proven that you don't have to be SAF or Pep to win trophies.
 

Infestissumam

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My point is how about instead of appointing the first manager that is available, wait till the end of the season before making a decision. A lot more managers might be on the market then.

Say someone like Ten Hag gets to the CL final, but we wouldn't be able to get him because we have proven challenger Poch.

For once I wish the club would delay the instant gratification and actually take it's time before making a decision.
like Poch did?

Seriously, it's crazy to me how much stock people are putting into Ten Hag while simultaneously dismissing Poch. Both would be great options IMO.
 

Cloud7

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Did something happen? The thread jumped over 20 pages since I last looked at it a couple hours ago
 

Devil may care

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I am really not trying to insult anyone but I wonder if the outcry is influenced a bit by football hipsterism.

Maybe that is just me as I always wonder that with us English fans looking at Dutch football which is unquestionably stylish. My number one choice is Roberto Mancini though so maybe I am totally wrong as I have seen very few cries for him.
What is hipsterism? This seems to be a term used to downplay managers who play front foot, attack centric football where you don't retreat to the fetal position when playing good opposition, a strange defense for chickenshit managers who can't go toe to toe with well drilled attacking units so resort to 9 back and counter attacking like a minnow.
 

Caesar2290

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like Poch did?

Seriously, it's crazy to me how much stock people are putting into Ten Hag while simultaneously dismissing Poch. Both would be great options IMO.
Exactly. But unlike Poch his football is actually attacking. Ten Hag take the Guardiola approach and dominates teams like Juventus, Real, Dortmund, etc

Poch is more pragmatic. More functioning Ole ball. And after 3 years of Ole I'm looking for a full philosofical change in our team.

There is a reason half the CAF want Ten Hag.

It's not about beating teams, it's how you do it that wins the hearts of neutrals. And for people who supported SAF's United, this should be a mantra.
 

Idxomer

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I have my doubts about him but his time at Spurs has been undoubtedly underrated around here for obvious reasons.

Finished in the top 4 comfortably after his 1st season and got 70+ points in 4 out of his 5 seasons.

Reached a CL final after beating Dortmund, City, and Ajax and he didn't have Kane against the last two.

Finished ahead of Klopp and Pep in the same season, I think the only other one to do that is Conte.

Topped a CL group that had Real Madrid and Dortmund.

Developed a lot of players during his stint.

He did that without spending anywhere near as much as his rivals.
 

crossy1686

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Exactly. But unlike Poch his football is actually attacking. Ten Hag take the Guardiola approach and dominates teams like Juventus, Real, Dortmund, etc

Poch is more pragmatic. More functioning Ole ball. And after 3 years of Ole I'm looking for a full philosofical change in our team.

There is a reason half the CAF want Ten Hag.

It's not about beating teams, it's how you do it that wins the hearts of neutrals. And for people who supported SAF's United, this should be a mantra.
After reading this it's clear you haven't watched Pochettino at Southampton or Spurs, and you definitely haven't watched Ten Hag.
 

Infestissumam

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Exactly. But unlike Poch his football is actually attacking. Ten Hag take the Guardiola approach and dominates teams like Juventus, Real, Dortmund, etc

Poch is more pragmatic. More functioning Ole ball. And after 3 years of Ole I'm looking for a full philosofical change in our team.

There is a reason half the CAF want Ten Hag.

It's not about beating teams, it's how you do it that wins the hearts of neutrals. And for people who supported SAF's United, this should be a mantra.
agree to disagree then. I remember Pochs Spurs team to be a good pressing team that certainly didn't produce bland football.
 

Devil may care

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There's some absolutely mental overrating of Ten Hag in here this week.

There's also nothing to suggest getting to a CL final means he'd be any good in the PL.
I don't get this weird dick measuring contest between 2 coaches who have done feck all in a top league, like the Poch brigade trying to big up his top 4 finishes with Spurs and failed CL runs, or Ten Hag fanboys pointing to meaningless Dutch league titles and failed CL runs. To me there'snothing that points definitivelyto either of them being more likely to win a big trophy with United, but at least with Ten Hag we'llbe good to watch while trying.

What is Poch's football like? Does he have "patterns of play"?
No, think Mourinho with more pressing in the final 3rd, kinda like early Simeone at Atletico before he ditched the pressing.
 

Caesar2290

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Meanwhile, Ten Hag is managing in a league closer to the Scottish PL than the English PL but he has the minerals to win us a title?
Dig me out a quote like this one by Poch.

Winning is all about mentality. And our team and supporters have become mentally weak. It's time to change that. Ole has shown that no matter the money you throw at the team, you still need the mentality to cross the line into winning trophies.

United DNA is about winning and winning with style. Not this pragmatic bogus we've been pedled for the last years because we had incompetent or unambitios managers in charge.
 

MileStolar

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My point is how about instead of appointing the first manager that is available, wait till the end of the season before making a decision. A lot more managers might be on the market then.

Say someone like Ten Hag gets to the CL final, but we wouldn't be able to get him because we have proven challenger Poch.

For once I wish the club would delay the instant gratification and actually take it's time before making a decision.
I'm hyped about Ten Hag because of the café myself, but that bolded part is an IF so big that it's ridiculous really, I mean there could be more chance Poch coming here and getting us to CL final than Ajax reaching it... and I don't even believe Poch would come here mid season.
 

OverratedOpinion

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We can make the same argument for late stage Wenger. And looking at how Arsenal turned out there is merit to it. Also let's not forget that unlike Poch, Wenger actually kept Arsenal in TOP 4 and won the occasional cup.

Poch's record is similar to Ole. Always chokes when in striking distance of a trophy.

People like Martinez, Redknap and Arteta have proven that you don't have to be SAF or Pep to win trophies.
Do you want Rodgers? Should we beg Van Gaal to come back? They have won the FA Cup.

You judge someone for the entire quality of their work. Pochettino for my money has proven that he can move clubs to higher in the league and further in competitions than they would be otherwise. For a club that has underperformed comparatively with our level of investment that sounds very exciting.

I personally don't want someone to have a reign like Jose's where they win a League Cup but put us in a position that we will never develop enough to challenge for the major honours that Man Utd should be challenging for. I think based on what I have seen Pochettino has the ability to build us to a position that we do that again. The fact that he didn't win a carling cup along the way at Spurs or Southampton does not make me doubt that.

He has had 1 job in his career where the club was competitive in the transfer market compared to the rest of the league and he is on track to win the league by a record points total. If I am proved wrong then I am proved wrong but I think he is an absolutely excellent coach who is not at the tail end of his working career and it would be the first time we have been able to say that since Sir Alex retired.
 
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