Pochettino watch | PSG Manager

Chesterlestreet

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Most good-to-great managers peaked before 50.
Productive time spent at work earlier today:

Key: Age at first appointment as first team manager/head coach (assistant doesn't count, youth team manager doesn't count, but I count Barca B/Real Madrid Castilla and the like) - age when the manager won his first league title - age when the manager won his first (major) European trophy

(Obviously there are names missing from this list - these are just the ones that came to mind immediately).


Ancelotti: 36 - 44 - 43
Sacchi: 26 - 42 - 43 *
Herrera: 34 - 40 - 54
Michels: 32 - 38 - 43
Guttmann: 34 - 40 - 62
Heynckes: 34 - 44 - 53
Paisley: 55 - 57 - 57 **
Busby: 36 - 43 - 59
Shankly: 36 - 51 - 60
Stein: 32 - 44 - 45
Clough: 30 - 37 - 44
Pep: 36 - 38 - 38
Klopp: 34 - 44 - 52
Tuchel: 34 - 46 - 48
Rocco: 35 - 50 - 51
Zidane: 40 - 45 - 44
Trapattoni: 35 - 38 - 38
LVG: 40 - 43 - 44
Cruyff: 38 - 44 - 40
Happel: 37 - 46 - 45
Lattek: 35 - 37 - 39
Lobanovskyi: 30 - 35 - 36
Del Bosque: 37 - 51 - 50
Hitzfeld: 34 - 41 - 48
Mourinho 37 - 40 - 40

And...

SAF: 33 - 39 - 42

(I'm aware that these numbers look like body measurements for women - I consider this a bonus).

* Atypical trajectory (had no playing career to speak of and didn't start out as an assistant either).

** Atypical trajectory (spent decades as an assistant).
 

MattofManchester

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I just don't see him as one of those managers who can be right up there at the top of the game.

I think he's a good to great manager, but fits in well at clubs like Arsenal and Spurs, where he's tasked with building a squad and pushing them to CL places.

I don't think the likes of Bayern, Madrid, Manchester United, giants of the game that demand and require consistent success are places he will succeed.

I don't know, I just don't see it with him.
Nor do I understand our club's obsession with him.
 

TMDaines

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PSG sacking him before the end of the year feels somewhat inevitable now, especially if he has irritated the management and burnt his bridges there. Maybe he will still be our long-term manager, but he surely won't be at United before the summer.
 

Nou_Camp99

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I think consistently is the key point. Pep has won 13 times against him. His record against the big 6 in England is a concern.
Look at the teams he's had though. Pep has the best squad and first 11 in the country.

Swap Pep and Poch around as managers in those jobs and Pep wouldn't have won a single PL title. Circumstances are key.
 

Cassidy

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No other manager in the world has to deal with stars like their front 3. Pep and klopp for example both have teams built around how they like to play football without massive egos
Pep dealt with Aguero not wanted to press when he first got there just fine
 

Cassidy

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You’re not going to get Neymar and Messi to change their game - no matter who you are.
You dont need them to change their game. You need them to trust and believe in your methods
 

Matt851

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Pep dealt with Aguero not wanted to press when he first got there just fine
Its a different scenario. Aguero may not have done quite as much off the ball as pep wanted but he was never as lazy as the psg front three. There was also only of him, think you can work around one player not running as much as others but not three
 

Amadaeus

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Seems like we are waiting it out for Pochettino, which is great news. Ralf ragnick will help our United players get use to the intense high pressing game poch was known to modernize in the premier league before he takes charge in the summer.

Even though lots of pundit are defending Pochettino and even saying he should leave psg now, I find it admirable that Pochettino wants to stay and see if he can somehow make things work when you have only 7 players defending. That would be an impossible feat. I remember when a lot of fans on here kept saying that how can a manager struggle with having a front three of Neymar, Messi and Mbappe. Seems like it was another amadaeus moment as they underestimated the value of hardwork Over individual brilliance.
 

Relevated

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Keep watching from the outside, Poch. Go home and listen to sad love poetry today. Put on a heart crushing love song and let the tears flow.
 

luke511

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To slog it out until the end of the season with an interim, and still pick Pochettino over Ten Hag would be disappointing to say the least.
 

Cassidy

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Its a different scenario. Aguero may not have done quite as much off the ball as pep wanted but he was never as lazy as the psg front three. There was also only of him, think you can work around one player not running as much as others but not three
Pep didnt work around him. He dropped him
 

NasirTimothy

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Productive time spent at work earlier today:

Key: Age at first appointment as first team manager/head coach (assistant doesn't count, youth team manager doesn't count, but I count Barca B/Real Madrid Castilla and the like) - age when the manager won his first league title - age when the manager won his first (major) European trophy

(Obviously there are names missing from this list - these are just the ones that came to mind immediately).


Ancelotti: 36 - 44 - 43
Sacchi: 26 - 42 - 43 *
Herrera: 34 - 40 - 54
Michels: 32 - 38 - 43
Guttmann: 34 - 40 - 62
Heynckes: 34 - 44 - 53
Paisley: 55 - 57 - 57 **
Busby: 36 - 43 - 59
Shankly: 36 - 51 - 60
Stein: 32 - 44 - 45
Clough: 30 - 37 - 44
Pep: 36 - 38 - 38
Klopp: 34 - 44 - 52
Tuchel: 34 - 46 - 48
Rocco: 35 - 50 - 51
Zidane: 40 - 45 - 44
Trapattoni: 35 - 38 - 38
LVG: 40 - 43 - 44
Cruyff: 38 - 44 - 40
Happel: 37 - 46 - 45
Lattek: 35 - 37 - 39
Lobanovskyi: 30 - 35 - 36
Del Bosque: 37 - 51 - 50
Hitzfeld: 34 - 41 - 48
Mourinho 37 - 40 - 40

And...

SAF: 33 - 39 - 42

(I'm aware that these numbers look like body measurements for women - I consider this a bonus).

* Atypical trajectory (had no playing career to speak of and didn't start out as an assistant either).

** Atypical trajectory (spent decades as an assistant).
A fascinating read. But when a manager wins their first title/European trophy and when they peak are not necessarily the same thing. I certainly don’t thing Alex Ferguson’s peak was at 39 or 42.

Edit: read your other post before that. I think there are examples of managers other than Fergie who had their best years after 50. Again, the time when they first have success is not necessarily their peak.

What was the point of this anyway? Trying to establish that Ole was unlikely to suddenly became a world beating manager after 50? On that I agree. I don’t think great managers necessarily ‘peak’ before 50 but they definitely show way more aptitude in their 30s and 40s than Ole has up to this point.
 
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BorisManUtd

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Then we sack the interim right away. :angel:
:lol:

Now with Rangnick becoming our interim, I wonder if Pochettino is still favourite or we may go for ten Hag. Some reports today suggested that ten Hag has become our number 1 target. Interesting days and months ahead. At least it looks like we're trying to do things more wisely.
 

Adisa

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I don't understand the notion Rangnick makes ETH more likely. Their football couldn't be more different. The only thing they have in common is high press.
Pochettino is more similar to Ralf than ETH is.
 
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Chesterlestreet

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A fascinating read. But when a manager wins their first title/European trophy and when they peak are not necessarily the same thing. I certainly don’t thing Alex Ferguson’s peak was at 39 or 42.
Very true - this was actually (originally) in response to another post, so it lacks a bit of context.

However, I think you could argue that most (great) managers had their peak somewhere around the point where they first started winning major trophies.

There are clearly exceptions, though. Fergie is an outlier in most ways. Firstly, yes - his peak wasn't the Aberdeen years (clearly not). If he had what could be defined as a more or less "standard" peak, the latter would be at least 15 years after his European success with Aberdeen.

And secondly - he never really went off the boil. He remained a top class manager until the day he retired (which is extremely rare).

Ideally, to make a list that is closer to nailing down peak, one could include a bracket for "last major trophy won" (but even that wouldn't really do it - as peak really is something less than 100% tangible).
 

Pexbo

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Seems like we are waiting it out for Pochettino, which is great news. Ralf ragnick will help our United players get use to the intense high pressing game poch was known to modernize in the premier league before he takes charge in the summer.

Even though lots of pundit are defending Pochettino and even saying he should leave psg now, I find it admirable that Pochettino wants to stay and see if he can somehow make things work when you have only 7 players defending. That would be an impossible feat. I remember when a lot of fans on here kept saying that how can a manager struggle with having a front three of Neymar, Messi and Mbappe. Seems like it was another amadaeus moment as they underestimated the value of hardwork Over individual brilliance.
Your wumming is incredibly tired and boring now.
 

NasirTimothy

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Very true - this was actually (originally) in response to another post, so it lacks a bit of context.

However, I think you could argue that most (great) managers had their peak somewhere around the point where they first started winning major trophies.

There are clearly exceptions, though. Fergie is an outlier in most ways. Firstly, yes - his peak wasn't the Aberdeen years (clearly not). If he had what could be defined as a more or less "standard" peak, the latter would be at least 15 years after his European success with Aberdeen.

And secondly - he never really went off the boil. He remained a top class manager until the day he retired (which is extremely rare).

Ideally, to make a list that is closer to nailing down peak, one could include a bracket for "last major trophy won" (but even that wouldn't really do it - as peak really is something less than 100% tangible).
Edited my earlier post as I have now read more of the context. It’s hard to determine what ‘peak’ means with managers but I think you are absolutely right in terms of your overarching point.
 

LoneStar

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If Ragnick will sort of be a pseudo DoF for the next 2 years, surely it means that a Poch to United is now more unlikely. Doesn’t Poch not like to work under DoFs, or am I making this up?
 

Van Piorsing

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If Ragnick will sort of be a pseudo DoF for the next 2 years, surely it means that a Poch to United is now more unlikely. Doesn’t Poch not like to work under DoFs, or am I making this up?
Could be that plus in summer there can be new candidates arising. Let's see what Poch can conjure up with PSG to the end of the season.
 

JPRouve

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A fascinating read. But when a manager wins their first title/European trophy and when they peak are not necessarily the same thing. I certainly don’t thing Alex Ferguson’s peak was at 39 or 42.

Edit: read your other post before that. I think there are examples of managers other than Fergie who had their best years after 50. Again, the time when they first have success is not necessarily their peak.

What was the point of this anyway? Trying to establish that Ole was unlikely to suddenly became a world beating manager after 50? On that I agree. I don’t think great managers necessarily ‘peak’ before 50 but they definitely show way more aptitude in their 30s and 40s than Ole has up to this point.
The point was that managers tend to peak during, more or less, their first decade at high level and that the ones that do not are outliers. Outside of the peak talks, managers evolve the most during their early years, someone that doesn't adapt and chance his ways in his first decade is unlikely to do it later, managers that are adaptive show that quality early, they don't suddenly out of nowhere change.
 

Dan_F

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I don't understand the notion Rangnick makes ETH more likely. Their football couldn't be more different. The only thing they have in common is high press.
Pochettino is more similar to Ralf than ETH is.
Yeah I think people have put 2+2 together and come out with 5, forgetting the whole side of the game that involves having possession of the ball.
 

TheGame

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Seems like we are waiting it out for Pochettino, which is great news. Ralf ragnick will help our United players get use to the intense high pressing game poch was known to modernize in the premier league before he takes charge in the summer.

Even though lots of pundit are defending Pochettino and even saying he should leave psg now, I find it admirable that Pochettino wants to stay and see if he can somehow make things work when you have only 7 players defending. That would be an impossible feat. I remember when a lot of fans on here kept saying that how can a manager struggle with having a front three of Neymar, Messi and Mbappe. Seems like it was another amadaeus moment as they underestimated the value of hardwork Over individual brilliance.
You are nothing short of a parody. :lol:
 

charlenefan

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Well at least now when Poch does arrive he'll have a league title to his name :angel:
 

ti vu

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Has anyone been able to analyze what type of manager he is? Is he progressive enough or what? I don’t want another manager that thinks AWB is enough for our RB position.
Someone mentioned seeing Poch as new Wenger. I agree with that. Poch is not the pioneer, torch carrier in any of category. His team can be progressive, but never reached the formidable level of Pep possession ball, or Klopp's counter pressing plan. He at the end of his Spurs time could be more pragmatic, but again doesn't show the level of mastery level of adaptiveness Tuchel show. Since being the progressive category, his team is not as good in the conventional pragmatic type of football.

So if you look at Wenger, you can see similarity: a good coach who with the right environment and condition (competition quality or lack of, player quality, luck of draw ...) can mingle among the best. However, never being able to be the absolute best, which in turn he prefers to lower achievement expectation, rather pushing himself and his team raise and adapt to face the new challenge head on. As the competitiveness kept being raised, his level of achievement would become not good enough.
 

MUFC OK

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Yes, sadly I think the rumors are too strong for Poch. I don't think we'll get him before the summer unless he's sacked from PSG.

But Ten Haag I feel we're going to regret not going for him, he'll definitely move on to a big club in the summer. He's just too good.
We might get him, big John Murtough is here.
 

slored1

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Bringing Spurs to the CL final with Alli, Winks, Dier, Sanchez, Davies etc. might be the greatest managerial achievement of all time. Spurs lost to a 5th placed team in Slovenian division today with all of these playing.
 

432JuanMata

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Bringing Spurs to the CL final with Alli, Winks, Dier, Sanchez, Davies etc. might be the greatest managerial achievement of all time. Spurs lost to a 5th placed team in Slovenian division today with all of these playing.
Since he left Spurs it has only made his achievements there seem much better. He didn’t win trophies but getting Spurs top 4 consistently and a CL final was incredible.
He did so well there that people said Spurs had a top 3/4 team yet they didn’t
 

caid

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Bringing Spurs to the CL final with Alli, Winks, Dier, Sanchez, Davies etc. might be the greatest managerial achievement of all time. Spurs lost to a 5th placed team in Slovenian division today with all of these playing.
how about winning it with djimi traore, Riise, Kewell, Baros and Dudek.
They didn't play that well getting to the final, they choked and were terrible in the final and were crap in the league most of the season. Its not much of an achievement.
 
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Ramshock

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Really?

I mean they beat them in this very group stage in Paris. He beat City in the quarter finals with Spurs too famously, then beat Ten Hag in the semi finals before ironically losing to Klopp in the final.

Poch has beaten all the top managers at some point. He's a good coach.
Sorry I meant regularly been competitive with them.
 

OverratedOpinion

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This does not really show anything.

I am not sure what happened next but the player on the ball is in loads of space with a teammate moving towards him with loads of options to switch the play where City would be outnumbered at the back.

Football moves so fast that screenshots are a bit useless. A bit like a famous image of Iniesta playing for Spain where it looked like he was alone against 7 or 8 defenders. 2 seconds after the picture he played it to a full back on the overlap.

Not defending Pochettino, this just doesn't show much of anything.
 

lloyd2wayne

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Name me 1 successful top team who've had all their front line with big egos who don't work hard. Just name me one.

The names you've listed are stars but they is a mixture of hardworking players among them something that isn't currently the case with PSG. I for one would love to see which manager get that front 3 to try and work hard together. Aside from Neymar, I don't see it happening.
And you don’t think they work hard because the manager makes them to. Are you saying they pick and choose what match day to work hard in. World class managers get the best out of players no matter what ego they have.

I mean managers have gotten the best out of players like Pogba, Zlatan, Ronaldo , Neymar, Messi etc bigger egos than Mbappe
 

Amadaeus

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Imagine losing 2-1 away to city after beating them 2-0 at home and being criticised ?
:lol: People rate Pochettino highly. He is in one of the top three managers in football that is why people expected him to go to Manchester city and win, which is not an easy feat for any manager.

Now they are expecting him to win the Champions League with only 7 players defending and the amount of ego he has to deal with. This is the type of criticism tops managers get. I feel that his time at psg will only make him stronger as we have seen with tuchel and emery.

I mean look at United expectations we had under Ole. People on here often lower our standards just to satisfy Ole :lol:
 

Dominos

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:lol:

There was another point in the 1st half where PSG won the ball back on the edge of their own box, the front 3 had stayed up front so you'd think at least one of them would show for an outball, but they just stood there huddled together and the ball was played in the left channel where there wasn't a soul in sight.

I would usually be questioning the manager but you can just tell this is the antithesis of how Poch wants his teams to play football. I suppose you have to question his ability to gain authority in a dressing room of big stars but I don't think he'd be the only manager who would be having this exact same problem.
 

JPB

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Please remove the "soon United Manager" from the thread title. If anyone from the club checks this site, they might actually think we want this bum as our manager. Add it to Ten Hag's thread title if you want though.