Pogba and Bruno as midfield pair, 6 and 8

dal

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Scholes had superior technique and footballing brain. He was always on his A game aswell, Bruno possibly could the problem is Pogba.

I don’t see Pogba as a player who could do that role as he’s not nimble enough for a 8/10 and doesn’t have the decision making of a 6. Strangely and this might sound counter intuitive but I think VDB could do that with Bruno.
 

Oranges038

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This is FIFA shit. Sure lets just forget about how they actually play in the real world and line up like this.
De Gea
Maguire Varane Lindelof
Pogba - Bruno
Sancho
Greenwood - Cavani - Ronaldo -Rashford
 

RedAlert27

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Pogba should have no defensive responsibilities whatsoever. He can't tackle, gets brushed off the ball too easily in possession, terrible decision making, takes too much time to release the ball. He's just an all round clumsy player with the ability to play a quality long ball once every so often. And also the ability to lose possession in our own half leading to a goal.

It's difficult to fit him in and Bruno in the same team as they're both CAM along with Mata Lingard and Van De Beek. He should never be seen on the left either.
 

Green_Red

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This is FIFA shit. Sure lets just forget about how they actually play in the real world and line up like this.
De Gea
Maguire Varane Lindelof
Pogba - Bruno
Sancho
Greenwood - Cavani - Ronaldo -Rashford
What is the lineup? Why are people hell bent on playing 3 midfielders? We don't need to, we have two capable midfielders that with some discipline (from the manager) could play the midfield.
 

Oranges038

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What is the lineup? Why are people hell bent on playing 3 midfielders? We don't need to, we have two capable midfielders that with some discipline (from the manager) could play the midfield.
That is my line up - it would probably work on FIFA. No reason it shouldn't work in real life.

You have to play 3 midfielders now, it's the way the game has gone. Utd basically are playing with 2 in Fred and McT and get overrun every game.
 

Grande

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I strongly believe that Bruno is in the same situation than someone like Kroos or Scholes were years ago. He is a CM and he is wasted higher on the pitch, the stats look good but the contribution to team play is subpar while his overall abilities are wasted.
I very much disagree with this. As I understand Bruno, he is not technically supersound, in stark contrast to Scholes and Kroos. He has the unusual combination of constantly looking for the key hole to the box, never being aftaid to try anything to get it open, and his vision, skill set, temperament and focus is fully attuned to that. Which is why he is De Bruyne level effective in exactly that role for Sporting and United, but as effectiveas one of many contributeors in a very disciplin oriented Portugal.

He is very much a fighter, but not very disciplined. Scholes and Kroos are able to be incredibly disciplined, to the extent that you could see it holding them back in a no 10 typerole they would otherwise be suited to. There is no holding Bruno back, or rather, that makes him half the player immediately. He will never be able to keep a passing accuracy of 88% regularily, or know when to press and when to block lanes and keep structure, crucial abilities for a no 8 role (talking about roles, not positions, De Bruyne example in extremis). It’s not as ifhe’s new to that role, he’s just not particularily suited to it.

All this is of course just an opinion.
 

ToToMarshall

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Am I seriously seeing someone suggest playing Pogba as a holding-midfielder?? The suggestion that you play both of them as 8s is insane enough given the lack of a good DM at the club, but you want to try and fix that by playing a guy with, and I don’t think this is an exaggeration, exactly zero-spatial awareness defensively, as the guy who is supposed to scan the pitch and put out fires.

You’ve seen 2 of the best of this generation play that kind of role in Kanté and Fernandinho do that job and see the kind of work they get through, and you want Pogba to have a go at that???
 

Grande

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Scholes started off as a forward, surely they can be coached into those positions? I would say they are two of our most intelligent players, couldn't they be coached for those positions?
You write as if any player can be taught any role - to a league winning level of quality. That is not so. A top class forward or no 10 can sometimes adapt to a different kind of role and play it to a world class level, but it is the exception (Scholes) and far from the rule Rooney), and in the few cases where it works, it is because the players special attributes can be as easily expressed in the new role, and his weak or mediocre qualities are not much asked for.

Scholes had a weakness when it came to speed and another in muscle power, but this was as much a problem in a winger role or no 10 or striker role. He had a talent for discipline and positional understanding that helped him complement that weakness in midfield, particularily when he had a partner with equal positional awareness (Carrick) who didn’t force him to cover much space fast. He had a strength of quick brain and overview that worked as nicely in midfield, and a precision of touch and pass and a discipline of focus that allowed him to escape pressure 98 % of the time through quick passing.

Pogba has played in midfield two’s for a considerable part of ten years, and he still is caught out of defensive position many times every single game. It’s not lack of motivation, it is just a weakness that doesn’t go away with teaching. He loses the ball more than once every single game in dangerous positions, like he did for the last goal we shipped. Of course he hates that and desperately would want to be able not to fo it. He just can’t seem to learn it. He has the technique, but probably not the quickness of mind and overview. Countless times he slows play after coaches have stress that we need to up our passing tempo, and it doesn’t go away. He’s 28, it’s a weakness, you can’t give him a role that demands him being able to be a metronome, or where vulnerability to press is critical, or defensive positional awareness at highest level is a bare minimum - like any kind of a 6 role.

Similarily for Bruno, but that’s covered in a post to jprouve just above this one.

sense of positioning, quickness of mind, tendency of responsibility and focus are partly talent, partly trainable. You can’t coach someone to become world class at a skill if it is just not there in the mid twenties.
 

Noc-Z

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Pogba doesn't have the traits to play in our midfield. He doesn't have the engine or the drive. He plays slow, lethargic and clumsily - he is cumbersome. I don't see how he can have a place in any top midfield in the Premier League. Of course every now and again he will haver a special moment, a killer pass or whatever. But Overall, not good enough and doesn't fit here. Maybe he looks good for France and when he was at Juve but that doesn't translate over to the Premier League where it's far more intense. Bruno, obviously a quality player, but he needs discipline and structure, maybe that will come with a competent manager/coach.
 

JJ12

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I’d play a midfield 3 bringing Bruno closer to the midfielders. Fred/McT/Matic with Pogba and Bruno. Rather than Bruno being a 10.

Give Sancho more playmaking opportunities in the final 3rd.
 

bosnian_red

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Really? How has everyone not realized that there can be an absolute max of 4 out of Pogba, Bruno, Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood, Ronaldo, Cavani or any of the other attackers on the pitch at any one time. Absolute max. And you're suggesting to play 6 of them together after we are horrendously unbalanced with 5 of them. Hell, with Ole, we're unbalanced with 4 of them.

Conte could make a 3 man midfield with Pogba and Bruno ahead of a single DM work, with the caveat that he'd need 3 CB's behind them and only a front 2 ahead.

I don't know why there's this massive blindside to an actual holding midfielder who just stays in that position and plugs gaps on here. Everyone always wanting a box to box energetic player, or a playmaker who isn't very good defensively. You need the holding mid. Arguably as important of a position as any on the pitch, especially for a big team trying to be attacking.
 

flappyjay

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4 4 2 is actually the formation I am thinking when I made the suggestion. It would give us some more defensive approach, allowing the midfielders and wingers to compact the midfield, make us a little less easy to play through. Defensive solidness needs to be our default starting point from now on. It would also allow us to leave Ronaldo to do his thing somewhat, whilst Rashford, Pogba, Bruno, Sancho focus more on protecting the back 4 in the defensive phases. After that they can break with counter attacks. We need to go back to the basics.
A france style 4 4 2 actually wouldn't look like what you are suggesting. The midfield 4 would be Fred at lm, Pogba cm, McTominay cm rm Sancho/Greenwood/Rashy cf Bruno st Ronaldo/Cavani.

AWB Lindelof Varane Shaw.

Fred Pogba McTominay Greenwood

Bruno Ronaldo

McTominay and Fred play the Rabiot and Kante roles. Bruno the Griezmann role with Greenwood/Rashford /Sancho fighting for the Mbappe role.
 

Abraxas

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I think we should go the exact opposite way to this.

Fred, Matic, McTominay. Or Fred, Matic, VDB.

It's uninspiring, it doesn't look sexy on paper, but it's our best opportunity to get a foothold. Select your form 3 attackers. We should have enough to create a few opportunities and options on the bench to change the game, but most crucially, we may actually threaten to defend the odd counter.
 

Flexdegea

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No, he’s not always involved because he’s always out of position. Pogba would be more productive in Bruno’s role. He understands football better.
I actually don't know if you are being serious or not here
 

Spaghetti

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I actually don't know if you are being serious or not here
You think Bruno has a good footballing brain?

Under decent managers with a plan and a tactic, Pogba smashes it for France. Bruno is a sub for Portugal, mostly because he can’t follow instructions or play as part of a team.
 

SungSam7

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Why does Ole not play Pogba and Bruno in midfield?

Pogba can be the 6 (DM with license to get forward) and Bruno can be the 8. Why is this not an option he has tried yet? It solves the issues about getting them into the team and also makes space in the front 3 or 4 for Rashford, Ronaldo/Cavani/Greenwood, Greenwood/Sancho.

Comparing boths attributes to our previous successful midfields of Keane / Scholes, and Scholes / Carrick, what is it that Pogba / Bruno are lacking for this to be an option?
Bruno isnt the problem here other than his need to press which we should be doing! But as a unit. Pogba is a waste of time and would rather see Fred play as DM over him for the rest of the season and get a proper one in the summer.

Why should Pogba get his 100th chance to play for the club? He should be benched till he leaves, absolute black mark on this club. Shows up willing to play once every 15 games then he relaxes again. Waster.
 

RuudTom83

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Try Pogba as a Keeper for a few games?...or better still do a kind of lottery scenario 30 mins before kick-off to decide the players and positions!
 

FriedClams

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OP I’ll never be one to criticize someone for putting their thoughts out there, open to criticism, so fair play to you.

In my opinion, there’s just not anywhere close to enough defensive discipline In either player, and effectively we would be forced to adopt a “we will score more than you policy”.

There is perception by some that Bruno can be quite good defensively, but his pressing at times is actually rather amateurish. He rarely recovers the ball, doesn’t win 50/50s, and is more likely to give away a foul than win the ball cleanly in a tackle. I have lost count of the amount of times he seems confused that a foul is given against him, because he went through the back of a player to get the ball. Also, he can’t win headers in the middle of the park, and since he and Pogba like the ball at their feet, they’d be waiting to try and trap the ball and the other teams midfielders would win the ball every single time.

The only way these two might work together is if they both play as an 8 and we have peak Beckenbaeur/Rijkaard alongside them.
 

He'sRaldo

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Bruno isnt the problem here other than his need to press which we should be doing!
We've underachieved in Bruno's time here, so to exempt him from a role tweak is nonsense. The season Pogba topped our goal and assist stats, we came 6th; I see no difference between that and what Bruno is doing now. Is that the sort of team we want to be building?

OP's proposal is flawed, but the idea that Bruno is untouchable even more so. He's needed more in midfield than as a striker, so he should either properly join the midfield, or be in direct competition with Greenwood, Rashford and Ronaldo.
 

passing-wind

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It could potentially work under a better coaching staff. Under Ole you've got no chance.
 

Ali Dia

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Defensive positional awareness. Willingness to track opponents. Consistently accurate and quick short passing. Press resistance.
All the essentials. Why are people still missing this… they could see miles away that Ole wasn’t a good enough manager even when we were doing quite well. Why can’t people see that Pogba isn’t a consistent enough midfielder to play any other role apart from the exact role that Bruno took over from him. Anywhere else and his flaws are brutally exposed. If he has a bad game it usually costs us. players half as hyped and twice as hardworking are getting the whole midfield to themselves vs Pogba. He’s literally a gift from god for the opposition in way too many games. That’s why the distinctly average McT plays instead of him so often.
 

telstar96

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I think that positions in football are a lot more nuanced than simply saying a player can/cannot play in a specific position.

Pogba's skills, for example, aren't fully utilised in a two-man midfield. I think we've seen enough evidence to see that he lacks concentration, he isn't press resistant as he loses the ball frequently on the half turn and has shown to be a defensive liability. People usually point to France as evidence he can play in a 2. However, France were able to facilitate Pogba's weakness by playing Matuidi on the left side of midfield, playing somewhat between a CM and LM, along with Kante playing at the base of midfield. United have failed to replicate this, as with Rashford playing on the left and Greenwood on the right, the midfield will naturally have to take on more defensive responsibility, hence why Pogba would not be suitable for this type of role, at least in the context of our team. We could (in theory) play him and Bruno there, but then we'd have to change the dynamic of the team. That's why when constructing a team, you have to consider the strengths and weakness of all the players and how they'll synergise on the pitch.
 

RooneyLegend

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We might as well try it, nothing else is working. Pogba holding Bruno as the 8. Let em have it!
 

He'sRaldo

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Pogba's skills, for example, aren't fully utilised in a two-man midfield. I think we've seen enough evidence to see that he lacks concentration, he isn't press resistant as he loses the ball frequently on the half turn and has shown to be a defensive liability. People usually point to France as evidence he can play in a 2. However, France were able to facilitate Pogba's weakness by playing Matuidi on the left side of midfield, playing somewhat between a CM and LM, along with Kante playing at the base of midfield. United have failed to replicate this, as with Rashford playing on the left and Greenwood on the right, the midfield will naturally have to take on more defensive responsibility, hence why Pogba would not be suitable for this type of role, at least in the context of our team.
The bolded isn't strange or even based on Pogba's weaknesses. Basically every 4-2-3-1 besides Ole's sets up with at least 1 supporting player of the 3.

Players like Eriksen, Willian, Lingard, Di Maria, and Matuidi all played the supporting role. We, on the other hand, are playing 2 selfish strikers on the wings, a poacher up top, and a shadow striker in AM. If all of Rashford, Bruno, and Greenwood are trying to play striker and no one is supporting the 2 midfielders, I fail to see how it's the midfielders' fault.

We have one of the most imbalanced lineups I've seen, of course we'll be overrun each match, something that not even Fred + McTominay's workrate can compensate for. And for all of Dan James', Mata's, or Lingard's flaws, at least they helped us maintain the balance in our beloved 4-2-3-1.
 
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telstar96

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We have one of the most imbalanced lineups I've seen
Yes, that's so true. In our system now, most midfielders would struggle to play in a two. McFred often end up having to cover one touchline to another between the two of them which is just impossible for anyone to do.

And for all of Dan James', Mata's, or Lingard's flaws, at least they helped us maintain the balance in our beloved 4-2-3-1.
Despite Dan James being a pretty average player, I think his tactical importance was completely overlooked by fans. Having a winger who'd held the width on the right, compensated for AWB's lack of attacking threat on that side of the pitch. If only we had looked to build on this, rather than forcing a striker in Greenwood to play out wide, we'd have so much more balance in the team.
 

Hammondo

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You think Bruno has a good footballing brain?

Under decent managers with a plan and a tactic, Pogba smashes it for France. Bruno is a sub for Portugal, mostly because he can’t follow instructions or play as part of a team.
He really does not smash it though. France often do not dominate in the midfield vs weaker opponents and often struggle vs strong ones.