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Pogba Future
- Thread starter wolvored
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Re Translated into he can't be bothered again.
Hope he puts this to bed by signing a new deal, pretty good chance that'll happen if we get CL. If not, this is going to get so much more tedious.
Like I said would happen
Off the top of my head;
Costa at Chelsea
Modric at Spurs
Suarez at Pool
RvP at Arsenal
Kante at both Leicester and Chelsea
I remember these players standing out as being superior to their teammates, nobody had to go and dig out statistical proof that they were better, we watched them every week and saw it.
Paul seems to be rather fond of excuses for being woefully inconsistent for a player in his bracket.
Tweet won't load for, what does it say? Thanks
Strangely the thought of him leaving excites me.
Me too. If we can get 150m, they can have him. I just hope we reinvest the money and then some.
Still don't think we have played him in a position where he would be most effective. I don't think he has much of an idea defensively, so for me, to play him further forward where he can slip passes through for the strikers, have a shot himself, play little 1-2s etc would be ideal, in a possible diamond formation. To my knowledge we havent tried this, so I would be interested to see if it did work? We would need a solid midfield three to anchor the centre of the pitch, so it enables both full backs to push forward at will, which should give us width. I think Pogba will leave United sometime in the next two seasons.
Yeah, I think the circus of him isn't fully offset by his performances. Especially when he serves up some proper dross. He doesn't seem to fit the team mentality Ole is looking to create. If we get serious wonga as well, I'd be excited to see how we spend it.
Like we did when replacing Ronaldo?
He's not without his baggage and he's far from a player you build your team around but he's still our best player and loosing him isn't something that should excite in our current state
He's a beautiful player but he does have a price in my mind. Same with any player in the current side.
I mean, I know he's our best player - I've recently argued that. The fact he's our best player and is allowed to serve up insipid performances in pretty much the last 5 games, at a critical juncture of our season, says more about the rest of the team.
Ronaldo situation is obviously different, we just decided to rest on our laurels, where we have no laurels whatsoever now!
Thing is if we want to become a title winning and CL challenging team, we have to have such depth that even if Pogba has a really off day, we can afford to leave him on bench. Which meaning we have to recruit higher quality players in midfield.
Costa wasnt world class and had Hazard, Terry et al.
Modric wasnt even close to the player he became at Real and again arguably wasnt world class when he left Spurs. Wasnt Bale still there at the time too?
Suarez had Ste G.
RvP the list is fecking long the WC players he played with at Arsenal during his time there.
Kante wasnt world class at Leicester, why the feck did you think Chelsea got him so easily. Again he played with Hazard in the team.
Your making different arguments, you talking about being inconsistent (in an inconsistent team) or showing you are World class playing with other world class players which was my original point. Trust me one of them is a lot easier to do than the other.....
You can't just offer a swap deal for someone like Varane that's a ridiculous offer. Pogba has an abundance of commercial value, he's also someone who can attract other top class players to the club when we are in clear need of quality.
If we had a footballing identity like when Sir Alex was at the helm, then losing Pogba would be viable because you can integrate others into a system or get different types of players to diversify the midfield position.
The problem we have is we don't play well as a team, the football is lethargic and disjointed so losing Pogba when we are so reliant on his intuitive contribution would be catastrophic. Looking at what Klopp has done with Coutinho, because he has a philosophy he's used the same system, implemented a different player (Mane) but with effective coaching he's become better than Coutinho when he was at Lpool.
Conclusively, they have become a better team overall, the same cannot be said for us. We need to bring balance to the midfield and have players that naturally compliment each other, if we had one quality player either side of Pogba he will have more space to exploit because the opposition cannot overcompensate marking him.
You mark Pogba and Herrera / Matic become passengers. Yet we've got people on her willing to give up an organ for Ander to stay. It's not a coincidence we have struggled in games due to Pogba loss of form, we are too reliant on his influence.
What a good post.
Thanks
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...united-barcelona-pogba?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Classic Barca putting their oar in
Classic Barca putting their oar in
With respect, if you're trying to claim the Steven Gerrard that Suarez played with was world class, and didn't think Modric or Kante were worthy of being in that class, then I think we fundamentally disagree on the defenition of World class. Costa was a poor example though, I'll give you that.
I just don't remember those players I mentioned needing to be excused for putting in 5/10 performances regularly - as if they were above having to put a shift in.
It's not about the desire or will. There were times under Ole when he just ran himself into the ground(under Jose as well, but the atmosphere was so toxic that nobody could talk about it), it's about the pressure.
I've noticed that most of his awesome games are the ones when we start on the right foot. It's more of a mentality than a desire issue. If his teammates have an off day, he seems to get frustrated in a strange way and just buries his head into the ground. It's more motivational and I don't think it's in the bad sense.
I know I look like I'm defending him too much here, but man, just look around him, there's a bit of garbage and it's hard to stay mentally strong each game, try to perform and carry your team.(carry his team up to a point, it's not like he's messi and we are barcelona)
Not saying you said it at the time, you probably didn't
I find it very interesting how when Mourinho was here, the narrative was, "Oh we should be doing much better! We have the players!" and now it's, "Look at the shit Pogba has to play with! We're not good enough"
That's bollocks considering his worst games come against the supposed weaker opponents.
Pogba gets off the hook too easily from the fans, he's paid like a world star player, it's bloody time he starts playing like one consistently instead of doing it for 2 months every damn season.
Huh? I’m struggling to think of any world class players he was playing alongside when he was their star man. Let alone a fecking long list..
Or both statements are correct, we should have done better under Mourinho and we need better players to reach the top of football.
No, you can't change it now man.
It was said (probably you didn't, I can't remember) that we should be challenging at the very least when Mourinho was here. This was a majority of people on here and now, our players aren't good enough and it's their fault Pogba isn't arsed and inconsistent?
The narrative has certainly changed. Why that is, I don't know
I was called a Mourinho lover and that I should f**k off and support him because I said the players weren't good enough. Now he's right?
I changed nothing, so I stand by what I say. Both statements are true we should have done better under Mourinho and we need better players to reach the top, also we actually did better since Mourinho left. You are the one changing the narrative because most people said that both the players and the manager where responsible while you were claiming that it was only the players and you are seemingly still doing.
So you think it's now Solskjaer and the players?
Btw, utter bullshit! Most people did not say it was both Mourinho and the players
To be completely honest, most narratives under Jose were completely pointless.(that doesn't mean the above are) The place was so toxic that only the negative aspects of the player's abilities were visible.
On Pogba, I'm not prepared to call him another "Nani" yet. Nani played in a team that won a lot of stuff and was still inconsistent.
Until Paul does the above I'm not judging. I think people confuse him too much with the catalyst of making the team win a lot of stuff. He's no Messi or Cristiano. A team doesn't win stuff or play good stuff based on the performances of a single player, but that player being an active social media person and earning a lot of money usually makes him the scapegoat.
Paul is not an issue nor a success at the moment, nothing is definitive. What's certain is the lack of quality in certain key positions on the field that makes the team look and play bad football.
I just hope people will be able to see the situation from the neutral corner than the crazy united fan one. On his good day Paul's level is Barca/Real as opposed to Smalling, YOung, Matic and Herrera who, let's be honest, are everton/arsenal players.
In a simple phrase, here's what gets on my nerves. When a team plays good, everybody is alright, everybody gets the merits. When the team plays badly it's more of Pogba's fault on this forum and it's a bit disgusting. (We can replace Pogba with any other player in the squad. I was doing the same mistake with Lukaku a few months ago)
Both bolded statements have an element of truth in them but Jose's presence around the place didn't excuse the following facts:
- we had Tony and Young as main RB's (look at City's)
- we have no natural RM (look at, dunno, every fecking one in the league?)
- we have one of the slowest players in the league at CDM
- we have Ander at RM, playing along Matic and offering absolutely nothing when attacking (you just can't have two players that don't do anything on the attacking phase and hope Pogba or Rash or Martial will suddenly come up with something)
- we have only one decent and modern CB
- we have no "natural" goal scorer in our team
Should Joses's team fight for top 4 considering that Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal were doing it, yes, of course, the lineup was decent enough for top4. Should the lineup compete for titles with any manager at the helm? Hell no and this is something that fans should see with their own eyes.
Ole came in and raised the place, woke up a few of the players and make them push forward, almost forced them to do so. It worked for a while and now teams found us out. The lack of quality around the place will start to be more and more obvious again.
In simple English, people that want Pogba gone are absolutely out of their minds. Let's remove our best player from the team just because he doesn't perform each game to godly levels of impeccable football. It's a bit of a rant, sorry, but some common sense wouldn't do harm around here.
What is "it"? We have had lots of injuries in March and lost our momentum, there is nothing special happening.
Point taken and Ste G was on the downward spiral but still a massive influence. I make a distinction between the Jose Pogba and the Ole Pogba. In the same way we make the distinction between the teams under the those managers too. When we were winning, theres was none of the rhetoric about Pogba but said it before, the vultures would start circling again when we lost a couple of games. Hes been poor since not playing at PSG but in fairness aside from Shaw, who hasnt? He is not culpable for the whole teams loss of form....
Good post
Pogba cannot leave, we need to make him sign a new contract and work it out with him. Losing him is going to hurt future signings more and more as it will put us into a weird position of being a temporary club.
We need him, and Ole needs to remind him that he's a Manchester United boy. France Football can go f*** themselves.
We need him, and Ole needs to remind him that he's a Manchester United boy. France Football can go f*** themselves.
Brill post and I agree but when you endear yourself to fans like Herrera has, they will focus on what he can do, and less on what he cant. Yet can you imagine if Pogba was going to PSG if we didnt give him what he wanted? Theres a lot of hypocrisy purely because his personality was never palatable for some fans and this I believe has influenced some peoples judgement.
Anyway its not like we havent been here before, CR, Becks and RVN was sold to Real and careers continue to flourish, Im in no doubt that when Pogs is at Real, we will see how high is ceiling is and the inconsistency will be less obvious when he is playing with equally as good players.
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Fair point about nobody being on his back when we were winning, he was absolutely purring, and when Pogba plays well for any team, that team has a high chance of winning. Full disclosure I've always been a huge fan of him. I was the guy in the pub saying it was all Mourinho's fault and on team Pogba when he was getting boo'd at OT, but there's something about Pogba when he's not playing well thats really starting to irritate me. He's one of these players that's either a 9/10 or a 4 or 5, and he very rarely seems to drag himself into a game having started poorly, it's like he just writes it off and goes into experimental mode.
He's far from the only one of course, and I do judge him by higher standards because he is capable of playing at a higher level than any other player at the club.
It was all Mourinho's fault.
I think thats a bit of a reflection on modern world class footballers tbh. Seen many players like Neymar look terrible in games and play like they arent interested but the difference is those performances arent has obvious because he is surrounded by world class players. Pogba plays bad its not like thats going to be masked by the other midfielders. Equally its not like anyone else is going to offer any creativity to the forwards either. Not hard to work out if you stop Pogba, thats 70% of our creativity gone too.
For balance I must say theres an immaturity about Pogba's game at times and I think when hes being constantly marked, its easy to get into his head. Ive always thought we need some leadership in the team as hes def more of a follower than a leader. This plays a big part in his inconsistency as hes taken up the mantel of leader more on the basis of his ability. France team have some big personalities as well as quality so the burden isnt the same....
100% agree about leadership, from what you hear Pogba is a really decent lad but yeah, doesn't come across as the most mature on the pitch and that's something we desperately miss at times, Wolves probably being a good example. That game was there for us and we allowed the momentum to change through idling about.
Though Mourinho was gone so therefore no need to bring him up?