Pogba - Manchester united open talks for an extension

JPRouve

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I think he's definitely in that top 25, but the latter half like

De Bruyne
Aguero
Mahrez
Sterling
Alexander-Arnold
Salah
Mane
Van Dijk
Robertson
Alisson
Kane
Son
Vardy
Fernandes
Kante
Hazard

Then you got players like

Pogba
Aubameyang
Grealish
And unless I'm crazy that's the best players in the league. If I say that Grealish is one of the best players in the league no one finds it outrageous?
 

Mourinhonista

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He has been one of the best players in the league, he wasn't incredible for Juventus, he was good but not incredible and he roughly plays at a similar level for France than he does for United, he just has less responsibilities and expectations for France.
First season yes, but apart from that i'd take several midfielders over him and that's not even talking about the pricetag. He should've been a gamechanger, but there's always been a mistake in Pogba. As aformentioned, in my eyes he should've been like KdB, but he's been nothing like that.
 

JPRouve

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First season yes, but apart from that i'd take several midfielders over him and that's not even talking about the pricetag. He should've been a gamechanger, but there's always been a mistake in Pogba. As aformentioned, in my eyes he should've been like KdB, but he's been nothing like that.
You give him the first season? Okay what if I tell you that he was in the EL team of the year in 2017/2018 and he had one of his best season at United alongside Matic and the following season he is in the 18/19 PFA team of the year.
 

Bastian

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And unless I'm crazy that's the best players in the league. If I say that Grealish is one of the best players in the league no one finds it outrageous?
No, I'm agreeing with you mate. And when he's on form, he's a top 5 player in the league, easily. His bottom level is pretty low for a top player, but his output is there for all to see. He's been our best outfield player pre-Bruno during his time here, overall. And let's be honest, we've had a very mismatched team for ages, so every good player can potentially look much better, Bruno and Cavani included. Most of us were just hoping for more, and hoping that he'd work as an all-around midfielder, which he isn't as has numerous times said as much himself.

I would not be surprised in the slightest if he looks a much better player in another team next season, if that's how it goes.
 

Pogue Mahone

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What do you understand by one of the best? You don't consider that he has been in the top 25?
Usually when you think of the “best players in the league” you think about players regularly making the PFA team of the year. Pogba’s been at United for five seasons. He made that line-up once and the Guardian called it a shock inclusion.
 

Brexit_Brigade

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That Guardian piece is a complete farce. Say nothing about Pogba's performances except that "Manchester United [had a disappointing season]" and Pogba "featured during their dip in form under Solskjaer".

Never mind that he racked up a whole bunch of goals and assists over the season and was the catalyst in the run that got Solskjaer the job, eh lads? It was a completely fair inclusion.
 

JPRouve

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Usually when you think of the “best players in the league” you think about players regularly making the PFA team of the year. Pogba’s been at United for five seasons. He made that line-up once and the Guardian called it a shock inclusion.
So for example Alisson isn't one of the best players in the league? Nor has Vardy since 2016?
 

Pogue Mahone

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That Guardian piece is a complete farce. Say nothing about Pogba's performances except that "Manchester United [had a disappointing season]" and Pogba "featured during their dip in form under Solskjaer".

Never mind that he racked up a whole bunch of goals and assists over the season and was the catalyst in the run that got Solskjaer the job, eh lads? It was a completely fair inclusion.
That season kind of summed up his United career (albeit featuring a level of productivity he’s rarely managed since). Posting in his performances until Mourinho got sacked. Then Ole seemed to light a fire under him and it looked like he had finally clicked and was becoming the monster Yaya Toure-esque dominant figure we’d hoped for when he signed. Only to end up crashing back down to earth with all the usual arguments about how he was being used, what his best position is and who else we needed to sign to finally get him performing consistently.

I often wonder if his biggest flaw is an inability to stay properly motivated over the course of a whole season. He can keep it up for a dozen games or so but after that he just seems to lose interest and focus. Amateur psychology at its finest but looking back on his career it’s hard not to see it that way.
 
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Marwood

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Pogba has given us around his best. It basically comes down to people still overrating him and also retrospectively underrating his actual performances.
There've been too many periods of time with him underperforming for us to feel we've had something like his best.

Even the season he got in PFA team of the year. It wasn't really a full season of quality. Was more a short spell of games that got him in there.

But what I like now is that the management seem to have a realistic expectation of him. He's not a guaranteed starter regardless of form like he once was. He's going to have to perform to get a spot.

Sometimes, big names, clubs do whatever it takes. Like Rooney's last contract. Completely untethered to performance.

I don't think that's the case with Pogba like it might have bern two years ago. So hopefully we're in a strong position to make a decent contract offer and if refused, agree to move on.
 
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Brexit_Brigade

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I don't necessarily disagree that Pogba would have made more than one Team of the Season if he'd been the sort of player we thought we were signing, but I also don't agree with using that award as a barometer for "best in the league", simply because top players will always miss out in every position. Aguero has only made two of them over a decade at City, just as an extreme example.

That season kind of summed up his United career (albeit featuring a level of productivity he’s rarely managed since). Posting in his performances until Mourinho got sacked. Then Ole seemed to light a fire under him and it looked like he had finally clicked and was becoming the monster Yaya Toure-esque dominant figure we’d hoped for when he signed. Only to end up crashing back down to earth with all the usual arguments about how he was being used, what his best position is and who else we needed to sign to finally get him performing consistently.

I often wonder if his biggest flaw is an inability to stay properly motivated over the course of a whole season. He can keep it up for a dozen games or so but after that he just seems to lose interest and focus. Amateur psychology at its finest but looking back on his career it’s hard not to see it that way.
Also don't disagree with all of this, though I think he was decent until Mourinho's sacking despite the drama - played a pivotal role in that Newcastle comeback that kept the cnut in the job another two months.

Definitely shite in the run-in along with everyone else, but he was good enough for a long enough stretch to be one of the best midfielders that season. And these teams are usually weighted towards goalscoring anyway - Dele Alli has made it in as a "midfielder" twice - so he was always going to get in. The article didn't even bother pointing out how Pogba's season had gone individually.
 

JPRouve

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Allison has been but it’s harder to fit keepers in that team than midfielders. Not sure if Vardy fits the bill. Anyway this is as pointless as arguing about “world class” so I’m happy to concede.
You don't need to fit them in a team, you chose to even though it makes no common sense. There is +500 players in the PL if someone that is in the top 5% isn't one of the best than the conversation is indeed pointless.
 

JPRouve

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There've been too many periods of time with him underperforming for us to feel we've had something like his best.

Even the season he got in PFA team of the year. It wasn't really a full season of quality. Was more a short spell of games that got him in there.

But what I like now is that the management seem to have a realistic expectation of him. He's not a guaranteed starter regardless of form like he once was. He's going to have to perform to get a spot.

Sometimes, big names, clubs do whatever it takes. Like Rooney's last contract. Completely untethered to performance.

I don't think that's the case with Pogba like it might have bern two years ago. So hopefully we're in a strong position to make a decent contract offer and if refused, agree to move on.
Players have ups and downs, at the exception of a handful of great players, your normal top players alternate between lows and highs during the length of a season.
 

HerbT

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That Guardian piece is a complete farce. Say nothing about Pogba's performances except that "Manchester United [had a disappointing season]" and Pogba "featured during their dip in form under Solskjaer".

Never mind that he racked up a whole bunch of goals and assists over the season and was the catalyst in the run that got Solskjaer the job, eh lads? It was a completely fair inclusion.
If you don’t count penalty goals then his whole bunch of goals look like a lot less than a whole bunch. . so I agree with the Guardian, I was shocked when he got included because he’d been underwhelming all season except from the spot.
Having said that, I’m a City fan and we don’t have a single player who can reliably score penalties - maybe they should have a penalty scorer of the season?
Hands up, he is good at penalties . .
 

Pogue Mahone

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You don't need to fit them in a team, you chose to even though it makes no common sense. There is +500 players in the PL if someone that is in the top 5% isn't one of the best than the conversation is indeed pointless.
And getting everyone to agree on the “best” 25 players out of 500+ is utterly pointless. Hence I’m out.
 

Marwood

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Players have ups and downs, at the exception of a handful of great players, your normal top players alternate between lows and highs during the length of a season.
They don't really, the best players, once they reach prime years, flutter around the same level. There'll only be small movements in form. De Bruyne for example never puts in a three month spell of such poor form it has fans questioning what's going on.

What we've seen from Pogba is longer periods of objectively poor performances. With shorter bursts of exceptional form.

That's just not normal for a top player.

But like I say, we seem to know that now. So should he stay I think Ole knows he needs options, to not bank on Pogba. That should also be reflected in contract talks.
 

Brexit_Brigade

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because he’d been underwhelming all season
No, not all season. He was also the standout performer over a 12-game stretch (nearly a third of the season) in the middle in which the team picked up 32 out of 36 points.

You can make the point about penalties inflating his goals tally (which is why I said he also had plenty of assists) without resorting to hyperbole.
 

JPRouve

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And getting everyone to agree on the “best” 25 players out of 500+ is utterly pointless. Hence I’m out.
You don't have to agree on the best 25, no one asked you to do that. And it's a bit strange to argue against a best 25 by bringing up a best 11 to then say that no one will agree on a best 25.
 

VidaRed

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We need pogba to do this. What we get instead is short side ways passes to the full backs :mad:

 
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jesperjaap

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I think people over rate his performances at Juventus and to a degree for France. As someone mentions maybe we exepct too much from him. He is an undoubtedly talented player and has done a lot of good things in a United shirt.

The simple facts are though he hasnt consistently been a world class player for us, he hasnt consistently excelled in a central midfield role and though things have been mis-interpreted he hasnt, especially with his agent exaclt done himself any favours within the press in showing loyalty.

Whether he would be better with better players alongside him in midfield....well who wouldnt be?

It just seems absurd to me that it looks like we are desperate to tie him down to a new deal to save face from losing our record transfer on a free transfer, when a new contract would cost pretty much what we actually paid for him anyway in terms of a transfer fee.

I dont see how anybody can justify how a £400k a week new contract is a good economic or football decision, we are talking £80-100m and a player in his early thirties that could be almost impossible to sell at the end of it as well.

I hope we hold off from this contract offer during the Euros, he has a fabulous tournament and a huge club comes in for him as I still think our side longer term is better off for many reasons without so many of the problems and decisions needed having him football wise and budget wise even though our first eleven is better with in it at the moment for sure....I just think our side could be better with the money saved on that contract and a fee coming for him reinvested to a better balance in our side than we currently have....if we spend well we are selling a player with occasional marquee performances and moment, occasional really poor performances but generally just decent to good performances to buy two quality plauers or one marquee one
 

el3mel

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What do you understand by one of the best? You don't consider that he has been in the top 25?
Extending the list to top 25 just to shoe horn him among the best just says it all really. I can say that X is one of the best players in the league because he can make the top 50 list. Pointless.

United didn't invest such money for us to be desperate to put him among the best by extending the list so that it contains him.
 

redshaw

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That season kind of summed up his United career (albeit featuring a level of productivity he’s rarely managed since). Posting in his performances until Mourinho got sacked. Then Ole seemed to light a fire under him and it looked like he had finally clicked and was becoming the monster Yaya Toure-esque dominant figure we’d hoped for when he signed. Only to end up crashing back down to earth with all the usual arguments about how he was being used, what his best position is and who else we needed to sign to finally get him performing consistently.

I often wonder if his biggest flaw is an inability to stay properly motivated over the course of a whole season. He can keep it up for a dozen games or so but after that he just seems to lose interest and focus. Amateur psychology at its finest but looking back on his career it’s hard not to see it that way.
I remember that run well in the early days of Ole's reign we had a 4-3-3 with Matic playing very well, like new lease of life and Herrera playing very well too. Pogba was brilliant, linking up with Martial, the passing and movement was really good. With injuries to these players the run ended. Matic went back to being slow, Herrera didn't look good against Wolves in his first game back and there was his contract thing coming to ahead.

Probably Pogba's best form was in the 433 we played briefly with two quality players alongside playing well, trouble was this is clouded by Ole's new manager bounce. We're now playing him on the left to see some of the best of him, it's closer to where he likes but still not his best position which probably is in a 433. We spent 90m and 5 years misusing him or not getting fit replacements for Matic/Herrera. I remember Jose talking about Paul stepping up in maturity to play a main midfield role when signing him but it's not worked out well, just because he has the attributes doesn't mean he can do it for long periods like 40 games or we see the best of him.

His future is a bit of an odd one, it'd be nice to see him stay and have some quality available but he's not ousting Bruno, I'd prefer a fresh Rashford from the left, he's devastating from there when fit and a huge threat on the counter. Centre midfield, maybe with a solid player behind him, Pogba won't be this commanding midfielder that Jose seemed to envision and some of the fans expected. Is Pogba ok with featuring sometimes across 3 positions from the left to centre midfield, maybe he signs with a view to the club accepting a reasonable offer when the pandemic is over but I don't think he's worth the touted wages. With Allegri back at Juve I would've thought it would good to go back.
 

smi11ie

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If Ole is going to stick with the double pivot, which he will do, then what is the point of keeping Pogba? Physically he is perfect for one of those CM roles but he is too careless to make it work. Such a shame
 

sullydnl

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He's very talented but to justify a big contract he would need to offer more over the coming years than he has in his United career thus far. And in order for him to do that management would need to have a clear vision of how he fits into the team, which isn't particularly obvious atm. I hope the club know what they're doing.
 

Murray3007

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pretty obvious its the exact same scenario as De Gea, hes been touted all over Europe and no one is willing to pay a transfer fee, agent fee and the high wages he is on. so him and his agent are now willing to discuss a future with United, be better letting him leave on a free next summer if we cant shift him this year, hes going to be looking at 400/500k a week in wages, as soon as that is signed then all the players will be wanting new contracts, imagine the kind of wages Bruno could demand if we give pogba those kind of wages. would be putting some kind gag order in the contract about that fat rat of an agent mouthing off about the club.
 

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He is a good player but not good enough for anyone, other than Utd, to pay a transfer fee for him. Why would you want to pay a player 400k a week when nobody else actually wants him? If Utd cant shift him this summer they should let his contract run down and say bye bye next year. The guy has been an absolute poison chalice for Utd since graduating from their academy.
 

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Just sell him for 50m or so and add another 20-30m and get ourselves a proper player ...

honestly how can we pay someone so much money who contributes so little......for that sort of money I would expect a Modric, xavi, Iniesta etc type performance every week..
 

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Just sell him for 50m or so and add another 20-30m and get ourselves a proper player ...

honestly how can we pay someone so much money who contributes so little......for that sort of money I would expect a Modric, xavi, Iniesta etc type performance every week..
Well probably give him a raise
 

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If Ole is going to stick with the double pivot, which he will do, then what is the point of keeping Pogba? Physically he is perfect for one of those CM roles but he is too careless to make it work. Such a shame
This. I just dont see where he fits in here. Hes the worlds best paid utility player already. Giving him a raise when Scott McTominay is regularly keeping him out of the team just seems crazy.
 

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Everytime I read news like this, I picture a United official opening the stoppers to the glass entry door to the office like a retail worker. Pogba and his agent waiting patiently out on the sidewalk then walk their way in.

What's the point of making such public announcements?
 

VP89

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He has been one of the best players in the league, he wasn't incredible for Juventus, he was good but not incredible and he roughly plays at a similar level for France than he does for United, he just has less responsibilities and expectations for France.
If I were to look at Pogbas overall tenure with us, I wouldn't think he's remotely close to being one of the best players in the league. There are so many players who have been better for less money and wages and less disruption.
 

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Realistically, how much would we get for him this summer if we sold him - £40m? 28 years old with 1 year left.

Would it be worth keeping him and letting him go for free next summer if no new contract can be agreed?

Does selling him for less than half of what we paid look any better than letting him leave at the end of his contract? Probably not. Either way the club has screwed up.
 

largelyworried

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We need pogba to do this. What we get instead is short side ways passes to the full backs :mad:

In this era of high pressing, Scholes' long passes would be so devastating. Even just in those clips, you remember how good he was at just putting the ball into an empty section of the pitch for a teammate to run on to, even if it was 60 yards away.
 

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I don't dislike pogba at all, he's very talented.

His time here has been underwhelming overall for me though and given the stature he holds in the squad and the media too often his presence has been a negative distraction if not a negative influence too

I think it'd be best for all parties if we moved on but if there's no takers I guess you have to protect such a valuable asset. We need to be careful with what we offer wage wise though
 

Crustanoid

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We are utter idiots if we pay him £400k. He does not warrant it, simple as. If that means losing him so be it. We would actually save even if we lose a transfer fee. Same logic which lumbered us with Jones for 5 years. I honestly despair at our recruitment/retention policies. We are run by complete imbeciles
 

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He will renew his contract on better terms, and we will still be discussing what his best position is, won't we?
 

Jeppers7

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Usually when you think of the “best players in the league” you think about players regularly making the PFA team of the year. Pogba’s been at United for five seasons. He made that line-up once and the Guardian called it a shock inclusion.
Stay strong....Always reach for that negative angle :wenger:
 

Jeppers7

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They don't really, the best players, once they reach prime years, flutter around the same level. There'll only be small movements in form. De Bruyne for example never puts in a three month spell of such poor form it has fans questioning what's going on.

What we've seen from Pogba is longer periods of objectively poor performances. With shorter bursts of exceptional form.

That's just not normal for a top player.

But like I say, we seem to know that now. So should he stay I think Ole knows he needs options, to not bank on Pogba. That should also be reflected in contract talks.
Do you rate Bruno as a top player? Also De Bruyne? My friends who are city fans say he has periods of poor form where he’s just really quiet throughout most seasons but when he’s good he’s obviously great. The only player I’ve ever seen at United maintain his highest level for three seasons in a row was Keane. Every other player has had periods of ‘form’.