I still feel too many want to force him into the starting eleven, no matter what. Maybe start making progress in dropping him first ? Make him work for becoming a regular starter again.
Pogba on the right of a front 3
- Thread starter RayK47
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Pogba's best position is the bench.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elq_RxDO0oc&t=7s&ab_channel=SkySportsFootball
Listen to Fletcher in the first 2-3 mins, not much seems to have changed since then.
"We played him a lot more higher up the pitch and in advanced areas and attacking areas, whether that be central, right or left or wide, and we felt he was the one who would go and win us games really. Combination with the fact that we felt he has a little bit of ill discipline in the middle of the park as a more of a normal central midfielder".
"We didn't feel he was disciplined enough for the reserve team to be playing in there [central midfield] so to then jump to be playing in the first team in an important game, people could see why, so i think he sees himself as a central midfielder but we see him more as an attacking midfielder who could get in areas and be a match winner".
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Pogba's level of performance doesn't justify us building a system around him or dropping other players to accommodate him out of position.
He has 3 ways to get himself into the team. The first is to demonstrate that he's a better option than Bruno in the CAM position. The second is to demonstrate he has the defensive nous to play in a 2 behind a CAM. The third is to demonstrate that getting him on the pitch is worth breaking a system for.
Arguably he has the talent to do any of those things, whether he has the drive is another thing.
He has 3 ways to get himself into the team. The first is to demonstrate that he's a better option than Bruno in the CAM position. The second is to demonstrate he has the defensive nous to play in a 2 behind a CAM. The third is to demonstrate that getting him on the pitch is worth breaking a system for.
Arguably he has the talent to do any of those things, whether he has the drive is another thing.
Yes, attacking mid, right whing, left wing. Basically anywhere other then a double pivot. Not only are we waisting his attacking abilities there, but he is also dreadful at doing the basic defensive tasks that are required in this position.
Out of all of Ole's flaws, his stubbornness on playing Pogba at the double pivot is by far the worst one for me.
Out of all of Ole's flaws, his stubbornness on playing Pogba at the double pivot is by far the worst one for me.
Could be interesting to see something like this, especially in big matches. Would be much more solid defensively than a front three of Greenwood, Rashford, and Martial with Pogba as an #8. We'd also have lots of options off the bench with Van de Beek, Rashford, and Cavani capable of changing the game. If Pogba isn't clearly better than VDB in that role, then so be it and drop him.
--------------------GK---------------------
----------------Defense--------------
-----------Fred---------Matic---------
------------Bruno---------------------
-----------------------------------Pogba
--Greenwood----Martial
--------------------GK---------------------
----------------Defense--------------
-----------Fred---------Matic---------
------------Bruno---------------------
-----------------------------------Pogba
--Greenwood----Martial
He's best position is a super sub. I don't hear people talk about it much but he gets tired easily
No?
Yes! Another thread on how to accomodate a player who has in no way deserved a team to be built around him. When did a team successfully play a player of Pogba’s ilk on the right? He isn’t fast, not agile, isn’t left footed, not that great a dribbler. I’d say play him from the bench. This thread is just further evidence that he is not consistent enough to nail down a position.
As an idea that's right up there with playing Mata as a left centre-back because he's left-footed, just no.
The problem with Pogba is not the position he plays, people need to understand this.
The issue is Pogba's style of play, he can play right, left, CM, CAM, ST, RB, LB his workrate and game awareness will still be an issue.
He can play Right but never mark the LB, will still cause us issues. Him not wanting to let go the ball will still slow play down.
The issue is Pogba's style of play, he can play right, left, CM, CAM, ST, RB, LB his workrate and game awareness will still be an issue.
He can play Right but never mark the LB, will still cause us issues. Him not wanting to let go the ball will still slow play down.
This. We don't need a left attacker, we need a right one and Pogba could fill this role. He is our best 1v1 dribbler and I think he could be a very good winger.
..............Martial
Rashford.....Bruno....Pogba
.........Fred....McT
This does leave out VDB but with our congested schedule he probably has start 1 our out 3 matches anyway to keep players fresh. Give this a try OLE!
Play him closer to goal. We lose his passing range bit nothing else. He gets the ball deep and tries too much and we are not setup well enough to properly build from the back.
Pogba is actually really good around the box with flicks and 1 2s. I think it's obvious he would rather play as a forward.
Pogba is actually really good around the box with flicks and 1 2s. I think it's obvious he would rather play as a forward.
Great... and if he fail as a winger, we'll try him as false 9. Seriously, Paul needs to simply climb to certain consistency level and that will be end of problems.
If he won't play in the upcoming matches there also should be no problems.
If he won't play in the upcoming matches there also should be no problems.
The only place for Pogba is right out of the front door.
I can almost see it from the point of view of substituting directly for Mata's role of the last few games. Still think he slows the game down too much though, and would get caught out far more under pressure. He's neither the workrate nor nous to play there in anything resembling a conventional manner or like Mata does.
I'd much rather see Bruno or VdB tried there. Better yet, those two and Rashford interchanging would generate options for the kind of attacking play we're good at across the width of the pitch. With Martial, Greenwood, Cavani (if he can regain a semblence of prior level), we're more than stacked enough in the forward positions to consider or resort to playing PP there. IMO.
If it happens tomorrow I'll bow to your genius.
I'd much rather see Bruno or VdB tried there. Better yet, those two and Rashford interchanging would generate options for the kind of attacking play we're good at across the width of the pitch. With Martial, Greenwood, Cavani (if he can regain a semblence of prior level), we're more than stacked enough in the forward positions to consider or resort to playing PP there. IMO.
If it happens tomorrow I'll bow to your genius.
If we can work on Wan-Bissaka's crossing, or bring Laird through quicker, I'd like to see us give the diamond a proper go. Van de Beek works hard enough that he and one of Matic, Fred or McTominay give us enough defensively against lower and midtable sides - then against the bigger fish we can bring in another of the more diciplined options and use Pogba off the bench later on.
De Gea
AWB Lindelof Maguire Telles
DM
-- VdB ---------- Pogba
Bruno
-- Mata -------------- Rashford
De Gea
AWB Lindelof Maguire Telles
DM
-- VdB ---------- Pogba
Bruno
-- Mata -------------- Rashford
I'd love to see him playing there for Real Madrid.
Ok, i've got some major issues with the whole logic of this thread and in particular this post. Your trying to justify something that makes no sense and will never work.
- create more chances as he focus more on attacking. / Alternatively, he wont create chances as he will be out of position or wont read the game well enough, because he IS NOT A WIDE FORWARD
- get in the box more to score which he is good at actually in the air and ground. / Alternatively, he'll be the creator so whys he in the box? could come in from left wing crosses but again he doesnt read the game well
- dribble more past defenders. / Alternatively, he wont. When does he ever dribble past players currently? he's supposed to drive the team forward with his dribbling, pace and power. If he cant do that centrally, what makes you think he's going to do it in a position he's never played before?
- use his pace well when we do quick counter. For a CM, he's very pacy and fast which we're not using enough. / This is a joke now? What pace? if he has pace he doesnt use it at all, nor for the last 3 seasons
- free-r for him to carry the ball forward which he is good at and we're not using as he had to be discipline and passing in deeper area. / He doesnt dribble now, why will he become good at something he's crap at from a different position?
- press high initiative. Let's not forget Pogba in 18/19 is really good at high pressing under Ole, this is when he's given the free license to attack with 2 CDMs behind him. / He's literally the most inept defensive midfielder we have, He's outplayed and outworked in EVERY midfield dual. his pressing is non existent and opposition walk past him without trying, ludicrous to even suggest winning possession is a skill he has
- VDB - more chances to play VDB and try him at CDM if we had to. I think he's more natural there than Pogba and at least have better defensive skills. No doubt VDB can give better balance performance at CDM than Pogba. / Agree. Donny needs to play more. He looks like a competent technical midfielder, he should play instead of pogba
- Mason & James - competition to Greenwood and James to start picking up their slacks. They especially James performance wise have been very disappointing. / James is a LW. Both are young and developing. i'd play both ahead of pogba in a wide forward position
- Bruno - help Bruno creating stuffs higher up with 1-2 passes and movements, basically how Mata help ease Bruno at higher positions. Having another playmaker who can get on the same wavelength as Bruno helps him tremendously especially since his form now is not consistent yet. / Bruno is fine, he's a cut above anything we have. Pogba is not on his wavelength, he's not as good
- Defense - our fragile defense will have better protections at the back with either two of McT, Fred, Matic and VDB supporting them. / Not true, we've played fred/mctom and still look shaky at CB. issue is, our cbs are crap and error prone. until we sign better cb's this issue will remain.
Conclusion.
Stop making up reasons to include Pogba. He;s not a RW and never will be. Simple as that
He's a central midfield player with flaws.
Sick of the notion that we should change formation or change his position to get the best out of him. Why should we? Cant he just work harder and put more effort in? He's got all the talent in the world but never shows it. Pogba;s issue is himself. He thinks he's world class without putting the graft in. He's all hype no substance and us fans need to stop making excuses for him.
Let's try and shoehorn him into any position on the pitch and pray to God it'll work because Pogba must play right ?
Yeah we should drop him to the reserves until madrid miraculously decides to pony up 150m for him
Bruno shouldn't be playing through the middle. Too wasteful. Make him a wingfielder on the left hand side. Martial as ST and Rashford on the right interchanging with Bruno.
Play VDB through the middle with Pogba. Matic holding.
Galaxy brain tactics.
Play VDB through the middle with Pogba. Matic holding.
Galaxy brain tactics.
Pogba is too good to be true, it is outrageous how we keep misusing him.
How many athletic midfielders of African descent with great technique play in attacking midfield in the PL?
None. Pogba must play deeper, box to box like Yaya Toure and Vieira.
Either that or as a striker. He can be like Drogba.
Get him off that no man's land.
How many athletic midfielders of African descent with great technique play in attacking midfield in the PL?
None. Pogba must play deeper, box to box like Yaya Toure and Vieira.
Either that or as a striker. He can be like Drogba.
Get him off that no man's land.
Pogba should play on the RM before James does, but same can be said for Bruno...If not Mason then Pogba/Bruno > James
Can we not put him on the right of three seats on a plane to turin?
Good god how do people come up with these ideas. This is not FIFA.
He's basically never played it this role in his whole career.
I'd like us to try something like this:
Code:
DM (Fred/McT/Matič)
VDB Pogba Bruno
Greenwood/Cavani Martial/RashfordA bit more wide... All the way wider aaaandd into the bench.
It would be great to see Pogba, Fernandes and van de Beek in the same starting XI. Maybe 4-1-3-2 would work best to accommodate them?
More attacking width from the full backs, with Matic/McTominay dropping in as a 3rd centre back when defending.
De Gea/Henderson
Wan Bissaka/Williams---Lindelof/Bailly---Maguire/Tuanzebe---Telles/Shaw
Matic/McTominay
van de Beek/Mata---Fernandes/Fred---Pogba/James
Cavani/Greenwood Rashford/Martial
More attacking width from the full backs, with Matic/McTominay dropping in as a 3rd centre back when defending.
De Gea/Henderson
Wan Bissaka/Williams---Lindelof/Bailly---Maguire/Tuanzebe---Telles/Shaw
Matic/McTominay
van de Beek/Mata---Fernandes/Fred---Pogba/James
Cavani/Greenwood Rashford/Martial
Yeah we're basically in the situation of how do we use him while we have him that makes best use of his qualities, hides his deficiencies, etc. Rashford and Martial for me start whenever they're fit (unless being rested), with Martial through the middle and Rashford coming from the left. The right wing and however we set up our midfield 3 is open, with only Bruno being a guarantee for any of those 4. Pogba as part of the deeper 2 doesn't work IMO, but also you don't want to push Bruno back. Pogba isn't much of a winger, definitely not on the right, but Bruno could be a right sided attacking midfielder IMO. Definitely not the best use of him, but I'd bet he'd be more suited to it than Pogba would be. Pogba doesn't have the stamina to play on the wing. That'd leave Pogba to be the 10, which he's probably better as than he is as an 8 but still not a natural or as effective as Bruno there. He's just not worth the head ache.
His defensive IQ is shocking for a natural CM. He's a liability playing from deep as he keeps losing the ball. I rather see him LW or RW as opposed to a two man midfield with Bruno ahead.
Ddg
Defence
McT Fred Pogba
Bruno
Greenwood Rashford
the only way he fits is if we go without wingers and pack the middle. He’s not displacing Bruno and he shouldn’t get in ahead of Fred or McTerminator until he’s absolutely gagging to play and work his ass off for the team. As things stand bringing him on for the long ball over the top when teams are tired or chasing a goal is the best way to use him.
Defence
McT Fred Pogba
Bruno
Greenwood Rashford
the only way he fits is if we go without wingers and pack the middle. He’s not displacing Bruno and he shouldn’t get in ahead of Fred or McTerminator until he’s absolutely gagging to play and work his ass off for the team. As things stand bringing him on for the long ball over the top when teams are tired or chasing a goal is the best way to use him.
If you don't like Pogba, you don't like football.
Go watch golf or something.
Go watch golf or something.
This made me laugh.
He's a liability wherever you play him. Nice luxury player to bring on when you're 3-0 up though.
So you're comparing teenage Pogba to the Pogba who has been a #8 on a world cup winning side? Great logic....
I completely agree. Seems to play with a bit of a chip on his shoulder when he comes off the bench as well. I prefer him as an impact player coming off the bench...
I dont even see him playing as a CM in a 4231. He plays a position of a CDM and the difference can be seen on our team structure and defensive capabilities when he is one of the players guarding such an area.
I dont care what he did for France. National teams dont press the same level and have the tactics of clubs team especially the type of football seen in the PL.
I dont think we would be that excited to buy him if he only played like he did for france even if he was successful. I remember we bought Pogba for the way he played for Juventus - a player that has the freedom to go forward and attack and is guarded by other players.
I saw this type of Pogba in the second half vs Newcastle and it was much better than the liability he puts on our team when playing so deep.
I dont care what he did for France. National teams dont press the same level and have the tactics of clubs team especially the type of football seen in the PL.
I dont think we would be that excited to buy him if he only played like he did for france even if he was successful. I remember we bought Pogba for the way he played for Juventus - a player that has the freedom to go forward and attack and is guarded by other players.
I saw this type of Pogba in the second half vs Newcastle and it was much better than the liability he puts on our team when playing so deep.
The difference is when the opponents are tired he's better. He plays cm every game but loses the midfield battle against everyone.
Is double pivot CM? It feels more CDM for me. Second half the double pivot was non existent and Mctomminay was doing all the defensive work by himself.