Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Bastian, Apr 14, 2019.
200m is one top player nowdays. Not enough.
If we spend it the same way as the last few seasons then maintaining mediocrity will be the height of our ambitions and become one of those clubs we used to disdain for their lack of ambition , the club that sets a target of finishing top 4 each season and treats that as success but never really challenging for major honors.
Scary to think that this is where we are right now. And to make it worse Liverpool and City look like they will be fighting it out each season for the title for the next few years as we become one of the also rans.
Every summer seems to be a defining one for us in the transfer and this is no different in that regard. Hopefully Ole can get it right , the consequences as huge as every year that goes by that you are not a challenger the harder it is to get to back to the top.
It depends on who we buy. If we buy a bunch of talented young players like Sancho, Felix etc. Some leeway will be given provided there’s signs of progression early on. Top 4 is the minimum requirement.
Rene Mulensteen was interviewed by his daughter for one of the United dedicated YouTube channels. And he said during the interview that Fergie and the backroom staff used to gauge the strength of our squad in relation to our biggest competitor Arsenal at the time. And if we thought we were one member better off, then we'd be satisfied going into the season.
How many of our players would get into the City/Liverpool lineups after we spend this huge wad of cash if reports are to be believed? That's gonna determine how next season will go, if Fergies formula is to be followed..
De Gea and Pogba currently get in anywhere. Can make an argument for Lindelof to partner Van Dijk or get in at City next to Laporte, though it's not a huge diff. Shaw would get in at City. Herrera would get in at Liverpool (though hes gone anyway). Most of the others would be squad players or promising future starters like Rashford but wouldnt start. Still though, De Gea, Shaw, Lindelof, Pogba are all very good options, while others like Martial, Rashford and Dalot are still young and you'd expect them to improve with better players around them (and because of natural development).
If we go for 4 players and manage to really get it right, something like:
Then you can add that Saul and Koulibaly would get in at most places whe Wan Bissaka have massive potential while being quality now.
That kind of logic never works, have heard that every season, since SAF left we are a top 6 team not even a top 4 one. It’s not about disappointment lowering my expectations it’s reality, I assume you have been expecting a title challenge every year last 6 years, how has that gone?.
You sound like every Liverpool fan for decades, clutching at straws saying next year is our year and doing some maths (which will probably drop off further by end of season) to support it. We can and should be better next season but have to be realistic.
What if Liverpool, City and Spurs also spend £200m, all from a better starting position than us? Or even just £100m.
It simply depends on if we can spend it better than them. Which we won't judging by past transfer windows.
Too much needless pessimism around cafe.
Realistically City can't get much better than they are, Liverpool can get better on paper but realistically they won't be as consistent next season as they are now.
Spurs...... Well they'll spurs it up regardless of who they sign.
Laughable, but you do you do.
£200 million isn't massive money these days, and I would expect the other top teams to also be spending something similar on their squads. So if that was all we were to spend, I wouldn't be expecting anything more than challenging for a top 4 spot again. £200 million assuming we don't lose any key players, would likely just consolidate our position towards the top of the table and give us more stability to push on in future seasons.
In reality we would have to outspend City, by around that amount to shift my expectations from another season of also rans battling for the last few champions league spots and a title challenge. Particularly with our past record with signings not being that great.
Care to expand on that? What is so laughable about not thinking everything is all doom and gloom around here?
Realistic? Sound like Liverpool fans? WTF are you talking about? You don't become great by aiming for top 4. You become great by setting the bar high. We aren't Arsenal. We are Manchester United. And yes, you are lowering your expectations to avoid disappointment. If not, then you wouldn't ask me "how has that gone" when I say I expect a title challenge every year...
I voted title challenge, but it all depends on Ole. I believe the squad would be strong enough.
It's so laughable because we are so far behind City and Liverpool. Can you not see that? Huge amount of average players on big contracts. We haven't challenged for 6 years, so what makes you think one summer is going to turn us into contenders? We are run by incompetent owners and a Chairman who hasn't got a single clue in how to run a football club. He has shown that in the 6 years he has been here but yet some people still defend him. Our problems run far, far deeper that simply just spending 200M+ this summer. If you can't see that then you've got your blinkers on. Same goes for a good few posters on this forum too.
Welll yes and no, it wont buy you a Neymar but you could bring in 4 or 5 high potential players if you do your homework and look for the next Sane or Jesus. £200 million could go a long way to making United a strong team but I don't see it as being enough to bypass Liverpool and City next season.
All this talk of spending £200 million and big name players is all very well and good, however 4th place looks beyond us now and so who will we be able to sign?
Wouldn’t it be better to save some of that money, get rid of our deadwood and promote some of our reserve juniors? Last time we did that we had quite a good season.
Then in a years time if Ole has then got us into fourth or better we could attract the right player to push on, but I just can’t see us attracting top top players if we are not in The Champions League, unless of course a miracle of biblical proportions happen tonight and in the final but I’m not religious so I won’t be wasting my time praying for said miracle, I’ll just be shouting up till the final kick of the ball.
Good post, no Excellent post, we have a few years to wait till we win anything and spending doesn’t work by itself.
Since Ole took over we are 12-2-2 in the EPL. That's good for 38 points or 2.375 points per game. Spread that out over 38 games and we are on course for 90.25 points. Spread that out over what's been played so far (33 games) and that puts us on roughly 78 points, which is only 5 back of CIty and 7 back of Liverpool (who has played one more game). So realistically that puts us 5 points behind the leaders assuming us and City both win the game in hand, and 4 behind Liverpool. That's with the team that we have right now. Add in a couple of signings and hell yeah, we are right there. But I get it. You're tired of being disappointed so you want to lower the excpectations. Well greatness doesn't come from keeping the bar low. Greatness comes from raising the bar, and if you end up falling short, you learn from it and get better the next time. So yeah, I expect us to challenge for the title next year regardless of how much we spend...
Next year is our year, all we need is two signings, that’s Liverpool fans time after time and it’s exactly what you peddling.
Arrogance and delusion holds this club back, we have finished 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd and 4-6th. Six successive seasons of finishing below City, terrible transfers and boring and poor quality football. Yet the expectation should be we compete for the title because of who we are.
That has been the last six years, that is our current reality and you think couple of signings and we are right there. That’s exactly how the club think and is why we are stuck in this cycle. Until there is some sort of recognition we are not good enough and a plan to solve it the most likely outcome is more of the same.
I admire your optimism but it's misguided. This thread on Twitter will offer you a more balanced perspective on why you are wrong.
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Fully agree with this, the club is a mess. But that said under Ole we have clawed us back into top 4 contention and have the best record in pts with Liverpool and City little behind.
Given that we could sign 5 players and have a pre season to prepare for how Ole wants to play who knows? But that would be a miracle.
But the club needs to address the inner problems and structure it for less impact due to our manager merry go around.
Pleased to see that 2/3 of the forum at least have realistic expectations.
how should we know? are we spending it on 30m crap like Fellaini? Or buying good players?
Likely to be the former.
If we aim to play counter attack and just buy better players, I think we'll easily get top 4 but struggle to close the large gap between City/Liverpool and ourselves.
If Ole has something else up his sleeve and we evolve how we play football and start to manage games/control possession a lot better you never know how effective we can be with some key signings
I'm not too worried about Liverpool. If they don't win it this season it will be a serious blow to team moral. They may get through the season with only 1 defeat & still not win the league. Their opposition was without their best player for the majority of the season too. Pep has 2 years left in the PL. If reports are to be believed he is going to be spending at least £200 Mill in the Summer in readiness for a possible transfer ban. The only way i see Liverpool winning the league in the near future is if they are taken over by the Saudi's.
If we spend £200 Mill in the Summer then i would expect us to be within 9 pts of City by the end of next season. If we get the right players & others improve we could mount a challenge seeing as City will again go for the Quad. I don't think Liverpool will win the league this season. The hangover will see them finish between 2nd - 4th next season.
We have to concentrate on building for the next 2 seasons. City will face problems replacing Pep as we had replacing SAF. Klopp is unlikely to be at Liverpool much longer if he can't deliver the title. It's up to us to get our ducks in a row so we are ready to pounce when the opportunity comes.
That sort of transition in style will take a season at the very least. It took Pep a full season and he had a bottomless pit of money to aid him on top of a better squad. We've not done that in years and years - of course, the LVG era doesn't count as that was possession in our defensive third.
Good but depressing thread. Sadly it's why I don't think we will see much change until we have new ownership at the club.
Depends on the manager IMO, Conte came in with a pretty funky system and Chelsea immediately won the league. For the record I don't think we should suddenly aim to become a purely possession based team, I just want to see us do it a lot more than we currently do given our only goal threat is a counter attack currently
I agree that we should be capable of more than one system, but that bit about Conte is very favourable to him. He came in, it didn't really work, went to a back 5 and carried on with what that squad had been accustomed to (and already won the league doing) which is counter attacking football.
If we spend 200m on the right players and get money in for some of the deadwood (and use that to fund too) then I'd expect us to get top 4 next season and maybe challenge for 3rd. It would take at least double that to get any higher though. Don't get me wrong, it could be done cheaper if we have much better scouts and make better deals...but that's not possible with our current setup.
Yet another head-banging example of looking at outcome as oppose to process. I want to see signs of attractive, attacking football and better movement. If I see that then the final position (to a certain extent) is largely immaterial. It’s why I was happy we gave Ole the job because there were (and still are) signs of progress in the way we play football. Yes, we’ve dropped off in recent weeks but there’s a range of reasons for that. Most of which can be worked upon by both Ole in training and the way in which we approach the transfer market this summer.
Top four or title challenge? I’m really not that arsed. Play the right way and the rest will figure itself out. The best example of that is current Liverpool, who are significantly better than the sum of their parts.
top 4 fight only unfortunately. Maybe in 2 seasons with another 200m and better coaching. One can only hope, but a title challenge would be a miracle.
I totally agree with your viewpoint. There are foundations to be laid first and foremost.
This is such a weird thread. I thought people by now would have realized that transfer fees are not expenditure. Its investment unless you pay megabucks for an old player and have to write off his asset value over the term of the contract.
If you dont think that the transfer market will take a nosedive there is almost no risk in investing in young players like De Ligt, De Jong, Varane or whoever. Thats not a cost, their value might probably increase if we could land them.
Our problem is not having money available to invest in players.
Our problem is the wage bill. Nothing else.
A wage bill that is the largest in the PL and cant be increased just like that even if the Glazers would approve it, because of PL-regulations.
Our problem right now is having too many players on high wages that are not performing accordingly. Sanchez is the prime example.
The problem with recruiting players like Varane, De Ligt and others, is not what they will cost in transfer fees. Its what it would do to our wage bill if we did manage to acquire them, since we have old players on too high wages.
And it also means that we are limited in what we can offer new recruits in wages.
One could really argue if De Gea is worth a new contract as well on the wages that are reported. If we grant him that and keep Sanchez around we dont have much room to play with in the transfer market.
And it has nothing to do with the transfer fees themselves, its all about the wage bill.
The club needs to restructure our wage bill this summer to be able to bring in new young players; and that might mean letting players like Matic, Herrera, Lukaku go and not offering De Gea a new contract. As much as that would hurt. Sanchez is obvious of course.
This is a hard question to answer. We have to assume, for example, that each of our competitors in the top six will also invest heavily in the summer to strengthen their squads.
We're really not that far off from City and Liverpool, but we're far enough away that we need 3, maybe 4, genuinely high quality players who are positioned in their respective careers to have a fantastic season in 19/20. That means no Bale, no Sanchez and no Ronaldo. Our new players next season have to be hungry, not satisfied with their paychecks and become our next Sanchez.
I'd say no, 200m in new buys probably doesn't get us there. But there's always a player out there somewhere who's undervalued who comes up with an incredible string of performances over a season. Can we find 1 or 2 such players or are we condemned to paying top prices for new players?
Best realistic scenario for 19/20? 3rd place.
Title challenge is asking one hell of a lot, if we can stay fit and play the more aggressive style we got away with while Ole was new then maybe, but otherwise we will drop too many points to complacency and lethargic performances.
Top 4 is another thing though, I honestly believe that if Liverpool don't win it this season then they are fecked, they are still reliant on city despite losing only 1 game, despite getting several seasons worth of dodgy decisions and ridiculous luck late game. I know you make your own luck but they've had so much go their way its insane and likely can't last. That means 3 out of the top 4 are up for real grabs.
If we can sign 4 first team quality players and play the right way we will be a great side. However playing the right way for a whole season is a big big ask and 4 players to actually improve the squad is a gargantuan task considering our recruitment history. I don't think 200m is enough for 4 top draw players now. Sancho, Wan Bissaka for example would be £50m players without the English player going to EPL tax or the Man United tax added on, plus likely bidding war for both will drive prices higher. Now if we can make the 4 players a £70m average then maybe, especially if we make some money on sales.
Still fitting 4 brand new signings, new manager and new philosophy and hoping to hit the ground running is asking for a lot of things to go perfectly and borders on insane optimism.
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