Portuguese Football 2018/19

maniak

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COme on, Sporting will not close. The max that would happen would be a club rename/rebrand. Fiorentina and Parma changed their names a bit, but their fans remained loyal.
I was giving an hypothetical scenario, of course none of the 3 will ever disappear.

If they did, people wuldn't just say "feck it, I'll start reading books instead." They would follow other teams and football would go on.
 

André Dominguez

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I was giving an hypothetical scenario, of course none of the 3 will ever disappear.

If they did, people wuldn't just say "feck it, I'll start reading books instead." They would follow other teams and football would go on.
Follow other teams would be some rich VIP starting a club with a name 99% similar, like Sporting Club Portugal 1906 or something. Fiorentina changed it's name but people assume the titles of the "former" club.
 

SportingCP96

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So you think that without almost a century of history behind it, fans from Faro, Setúbal, Lisboa and Porto would magically start supporting a team from Braga or Guimarães instead of their own cities?

Would you start supporting Braga or Guimarães or a team close to where you live?
close to where I live bur that is the minority people want to be fans of winning teams especially young kids. So imagine Braga and VSC get invested in and start winning year after year every kid will become a fan and as will their kids and so on and so forth. In the end you will have 2. or 3 teams dominating and having a monopoly over the rest just as it is now. That is how thus sport is.
 

maniak

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Follow other teams would be some rich VIP starting a club with a name 99% similar, like Sporting Club Portugal 1906 or something. Fiorentina changed it's name but people assume the titles of the "former" club.
That's not what I'm talking about though. I'm not talking about a bankruptcy scenario. I am saying, imagine for a second these 3 teams stopped existing, with no renaming or follow up club.

My argument is that people would start following clubs more diversely, probably their city's clubs and portuguese football as whole would be more interesting and healthy.
 

SportingCP96

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I was giving an hypothetical scenario, of course none of the 3 will ever disappear.

If they did, people wuldn't just say "feck it, I'll start reading books instead." They would follow other teams and football would go on.
The point being made which we are digressing from is that without the big 3 the league would be no more the smaller teams would lose revenue and attendances as well they provide for them the same way Rangers and Celtic do for the smaller clubs.
 

maniak

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close to where I live bur that is the minority people want to be fans of winning teams especially young kids. So imagine Braga and VSC get invested in and start winning year after year every kid will become a fan and as will their kids and so on and so forth. In the end you will have 2. or 3 teams dominating and having a monopoly over the rest just as it is now. That is how thus sport is.
I don't know why you assume that. In Spain, France, England, Italy, Germany, etc. millions of fans follow teams that never win.
 

SportingCP96

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That's not what I'm talking about though. I'm not talking about a bankruptcy scenario. I am saying, imagine for a second these 3 teams stopped existing, with no renaming or follow up club.

My argument is that people would start following clubs more diversely, probably their city's clubs and portuguese football as whole would be more interesting and healthy.
I understand your point and within time my point is that 2 or 3 clubs would gain a monopoly over the rest their world be rich people who would invest in clubs and make them bigger in essence we would have a new big 3 or 2 within due time.
 

SportingCP96

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I don't know why you assume that. In Spain, France, England, Italy, Germany, etc. millions of fans follow teams that never win.
You just named the top 4 leagues in the world who have A LOT of more money then the Portuguese league does or better yet the country in general. You can not use that as a comparison. If Liverpool was to be relegated it would have no affect on the league sam thing in Germany where a club like Hamburg was related with little to no affect on the league.

We are talking about Portugal and our league just as the Scottish and the Dutch depend on there top clubs or Turkey as well.
 

maniak

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The point being made which we are digressing from is that without the big 3 the league would be no more the smaller teams would lose revenue and attendances as well they provide for them the same way Rangers and Celtic do for the smaller clubs.
So without those 3 teams the other clubs would just close doors and the league would fold. 10 million people would simply lose interest in the most popular activity in the country?

10 million consumers would not follow other teams and spend their money on them?

I know this is all crazy scenarios, but you keep telling me that things that exist in several countries could never happen here. I don't know why except maybe lack of imagination on your part.
 

maniak

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I understand your point and within time my point is that 2 or 3 clubs would gain a monopoly over the rest their world be rich people who would invest in clubs and make them bigger in essence we would have a new big 3 or 2 within due time.
So what happens in all top league countries, where mid-table teams have many fans and healthy finances (for their level) couldn't happen here? Is it something genetic?

Sure, teams like Braga, Vitória, Boavista, Belenenses would be on top, all leagues have teams on top, but football as a whole would benefit a lot and the league would more exciting, competitive and teams across the country would have a lot more fans.
 

SportingCP96

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So without those 3 teams the other clubs would just close doors and the league would fold. 10 million people would simply lose interest in the most popular activity in the country?

10 million consumers would not follow other teams and spend their money on them?

I know this is all crazy scenarios, but you keep telling me that things that exist in several countries could never happen here. I don't know why except maybe lack of imagination on your part.
By just simple fact. Let me put it this way Bar the Big 3 in Portugal and VSC the attendances for the other clubs is CRAP and that is with the BIG 3 in the league if they were to be relegated the league would suffer the average attendances of the league would plummit and we would be a low level league just how other leagues like the danish or norweigen with all due respect. We benefit from having 3 of the biggest clubs in the world.
 

maniak

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You just named the top 4 leagues in the world who have A LOT of more money then the Portuguese league does or better yet the country in general. You can not use that as a comparison. If Liverpool was to be relegated it would have no affect on the league sam thing in Germany where a club like Hamburg was related with little to no affect on the league.

We are talking about Portugal and our league just as the Scottish and the Dutch depend on there top clubs or Turkey as well.
I wasn't talking about money, I was talking about teams in those countries actually have fans. People DO follow teams that don't win, something you said couldn't happen and people would flock to Braga or Vitória.

10 million fans would ALL become Braga and Vitória fans, they would spread across dozens of teams.
 

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So what happens in all top league countries, where mid-table teams have many fans and healthy finances (for their level) couldn't happen here? Is it something genetic?

Sure, teams like Braga, Vitória, Boavista, Belenenses would be on top, all leagues have teams on top, but football as a whole would benefit a lot and the league would more exciting, competitive and teams across the country would have a lot more fans.
OR the same thing would happen. You said " why would people support other clubs instead of clubs in their city" well the same can be applied right now what would the difference be? People support FCP, SLB and SCP because they win and are big clubs. If they did not exist other clubs would take its place and the same would happen they would be fans of the top teams.

Do you think every United fan in this forum is from Manchester or even grew up their ? absolutely not
 

maniak

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By just simple fact. Let me put it this way Bar the Big 3 in Portugal and VSC the attendances for the other clubs is CRAP and that is with the BIG 3 in the league if they were to be relegated the league would suffer the average attendances of the league would plummit and we would be a low level league just how other leagues like the danish or norweigen with all due respect. We benefit from having 3 of the biggest clubs in the world.
You seem to think the fans of those 3 teams would disappear with them. No, they would still be real people who love football and would follow football supporting and watching a different team.
 

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I wasn't talking about money, I was talking about teams in those countries actually have fans. People DO follow teams that don't win, something you said couldn't happen and people would flock to Braga or Vitória.

10 million fans would ALL become Braga and Vitória fans, they would spread across dozens of teams.
Why does it not happen now then? what is the difference
 

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You seem to think the fans of those 3 teams would disappear with them. No, they would still be real people who love football and would follow football supporting and watching a different team.
My friend I never said that. I said that within time it would be regulated again. So if within time lets say Braga and VSC became the top 2 clubs in Portugal for decades there fan base would increase substantially. It is no different then wha is happening currently.
 

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You seem to think the fans of those 3 teams would disappear with them. No, they would still be real people who love football and would follow football supporting and watching a different team.
Also believe me I would love for every game in Portugal to be sold out crowds but that simply does not happen.
 

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OR the same thing would happen. You said " why would people support other clubs instead of clubs in their city" well the same can be applied right now what would the difference be? People support FCP, SLB and SCP because they win and are big clubs. If they did not exist other clubs would take its place and the same would happen they would be fans of the top teams.

Do you think every United fan in this forum is from Manchester or even grew up their ? absolutely not
I have already mentioned history. We have had a century of political abuse of football, centralization of power, clubs being used for politics and regional grievances. We can't hide from that. If we were starting from scratch, in a free society without those historical factors, people would be much more open to support a variety of clubs.

It's insane to suggest that in 10-15 years Braga and Vitória would share 10 million fans as it happens today with the big 3. Insane, I refuse to believe you believe that.
 

maniak

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My friend I never said that. I said that within time it would be regulated again. So if within time lets say Braga and VSC became the top 2 clubs in Portugal for decades there fan base would increase substantially. It is no different then wha is happening currently.
Why doesn't that happen in other countries? Why isn't everyone in England a supporter of the big 6? Why does Brighton or Huddersfield have fans?
 

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I have already mentioned history. We have had a century of political abuse of football, centralization of power, clubs being used for politics and regional grievances. We can't hide from that. If we were starting from scratch, in a free society without those historical factors, people would be much more open to support a variety of clubs.

It's insane to suggest that in 10-15 years Braga and Vitória would share 10 million fans as it happens today with the big 3. Insane, I refuse to believe you believe that.
Of course not all but a majority yes. Lets just agree to disagree. The same way you think it is insane for me to believe that ( and listen I dont think you are 100% wrong ) I also think it is naive to say the league would be better off without the big 3. But like I said agree to disagree I enjoy having these discussions;)
 

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Of course not all but a majority yes. Lets just agree to disagree. The same way you think it is insane for me to believe that ( and listen I dont think you are 100% wrong ) I also think it is naive to say the league would be better off without the big 3. But like I said agree to disagree I enjoy having these discussions;)
Not better in terms of quality, but more competitive and fun at the stadiums for people who put football above winning.

I would love to see these discussions on TV and, crazy idea, maybe once in a while we could see an Académica, Braga or Vitória fan talking about their teams on TV.
 

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Where are you from? Do you support your local team? Why? There's your answer.
I live in the states now and like the Red Bulls here and in Portugal my family and I are from Lisbon many of which are Benfica fans but I chose Sporting as they were the first team I saw growing up and thats how it began.
 

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Not better in terms of quality, but more competitive and fun at the stadiums for people who put football above winning.

I would love to see these discussions on TV and, crazy idea, maybe once in a while we could see an Académica, Braga or Vitória fan talking about their teams on TV.
That would not bring views for the same reason no one would watch my reality tv show over the kardashians.
 

maniak

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That would not bring views for the same reason no one would watch my reality tv show over the kardashians.
Some programs have panels of 4 or 5 people, let the big 3 have their muppets there and rotate fans from other clubs.

I live in the states now and like the Red Bulls here and in Portugal my family and I are from Lisbon many of which are Benfica fans but I chose Sporting as they were the first team I saw growing up and thats how it began.
Fair enough, next time you meet a sportinguista from Braga or Coimbra ask him why he supports Sporting. When you realize how silly his justification seems, you'll have your answer.
 

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Some programs have panels of 4 or 5 people, let the big 3 have their muppets there and rotate fans from other clubs.



Fair enough, next time you meet a sportinguista from Braga or Coimbra ask him why he supports Sporting. When you realize how silly his justification seems, you'll have your answer.
‘Because my father supported Sporting’.

It’s not silly, it’s how it is everywhere. The distribution of fans in Portugal has been this way for generations.

Teams like Braga and Guimarães keep having a lot of fans because of it, other teams fail to connect with their cities.
 

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‘Because my father supported Sporting’.

It’s not silly, it’s how it is everywhere. The distribution of fans in Portugal has been this way for generations.

Teams like Braga and Guimarães keep having a lot of fans because of it, other teams fail to connect with their cities.
I think it's silly. You like football and you choose to support a team you don't get to watch just because your father did it? Why not actually enjoy the sport supporting a team you can watch and actually cheer for in the stadium.

As for the old "oh there' s nothing we can do, it's always been like this..."

In 1990 the team with the worst attendances in the league of 20 teams was União with an average of more than 3k fans and basically half the league averaged more than 10k fans in home matches (Beira-Mar 12k people on home matches, just think about that), so if you think this is the way it has always been, you don't know our football history. The recent (last 10-15 years) TV deals where the big 3 simply refuse to do the same England or Germany do worsened the situation to the point we are now, where all the profit is funneled to the same clubs instead of the deals actually benefiting football as it should.
 

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I think it's silly. You like football and you choose to support a team you don't get to watch just because your father did it? Why not actually enjoy the sport supporting a team you can watch and actually cheer for in the stadium.

As for the old "oh there' s nothing we can do, it's always been like this..."

In 1990 the team with the worst attendances in the league of 20 teams was União with an average of more than 3k fans and basically half the league averaged more than 10k fans in home matches (Beira-Mar 12k people on home matches, just think about that), so if you think this is the way it has always been, you don't know our football history. The recent (last 10-15 years) TV deals where the big 3 simply refuse to do the same England or Germany do worsened the situation to the point we are now, where all the profit is funneled to the same clubs instead of the deals actually benefiting football as it should.
Beira-Mar were the same as Guimarães or Braga, even after they went down they had loads of fans. More matches on TV = less people on the stadiums, it has nothing to do with the TV money and it was like that for a long time. Go and take a look at the history of literally every single league of our size in Europe, it’s the exact same.

Of course people are going to support the club of their family, what are you on about? That’s how it is everywhere. I live in the north of Portugal, I support Sporting and I always have since I can remember. There wasn’t any decision to be made, my grandfather supported Sporting, my father and uncles support Sporting so I support Sporting. I go to Alvalade as often as I can and there are loads of away matches close by. We live in a small country, Lisbon is 4-5 hours away and a train ride is just 10 Euros.

Can you imagine being born in Coimbra, supporting Académica, moving to Braga, having a kid and then making the kid support Braga because it’s his local club? That’s not how it works. Anywhere.

Instead of blaming the evil big clubs for not wanting to kill themselves in order to improve others, maybe these clubs should take some responsibility for their terrible management over the years and for failing to make a connection with the people of their city. Guimarães and Braga pulled it off. Chaves always have plenty of fans, I go to Vila Real matches and it’s always full in the distrital.

England and Germany don’t get loads of people in the stadiums because of the TV deals. It’s cultural.
 

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Beira-Mar were the same as Guimarães or Braga, even after they went down they had loads of fans. More matches on TV = less people on the stadiums, it has nothing to do with the TV money and it was like that for a long time. Go and take a look at the history of literally every single league of our size in Europe, it’s the exact same. We live in a small country, Lisbon is 4-5 hours away and a train ride is just 10 Euros.

Of course people are going to support the club of their family, what are you on about? That’s how it is everywhere. I live in the north of Portugal, I support Sporting and I always have since I can remember. There wasn’t any decision to be made, my grandfather supported Sporting, my father and uncles support Sporting so I support Sporting. I go to Alvalade as often as I can and there are loads of away matches close by.

Can you imagine being born in Coimbra, supporting Académica, moving to Braga, having a kid and then making the kid support Braga because it’s his local club? That’s not how it works. Anywhere.

Instead of blaming the evil big clubs for not wanting to kill themselves in order to improve others, maybe these clubs should take some responsibility for their terrible management over the years and for failing to make a connection with the people of their city. Guimarães and Braga pulled it off. Chaves always have plenty of fans, I go to Vila Real matches and it’s always full in the distrital.

England and Germany don’t get loads of people in the stadiums because of the TV deals.
No one will ever convince me that supporting a team just because they win often instead of supporting the team that represents your land and your community is not a stupid thing to do. And if a portuguese supported Germany instead of Portugal you would obviously recognize how silly it would be.

And if you think that the widening gap in TV money isn't to blame for the shitshow league we have today, you live in la la land, sorry mate, but if a club gets 100 times more tv money, something is wrong and blaming the presidents of small teams who have to live on peanuts is just disrespectful and wrong. As for the clubs killing themselves, go ask United, Liverpool and Arsenal fans if they don't think a better and more competitive league was better for them long term.

Portuguese fans have a "big fish in small pond" mentality. That's why we have a shit league and we will continue having a shit league.

I will continue to root for turmoil in the big 3 and for them to lose all european matches. If people tell me - as this whole conversation started - that that's oh so bad for portuguese football, I'll keep telling them to feck off and start grasping reality.
 

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No one will ever convince me that supporting a team just because they win often instead of supporting the team that represents your land and your community is not a stupid thing to do. And if a portuguese supported Germany instead of Portugal you would obviously recognize how silly it would be.

And if you think that the widening gap in TV money isn't to blame for the shitshow league we have today, you live in la la land, sorry mate, but if a club gets 100 times more tv money, something is wrong and blaming the presidents of small teams who have to live on peanuts is just disrespectful and wrong. As for the clubs killing themselves, go ask United, Liverpool and Arsenal fans if they don't think a better and more competitive league was better for them long term.

Portuguese fans have a "big fish in small pond" mentality. That's why we have a shit league and we will continue having a shit league.

I will continue to root for turmoil in the big 3 and for them to lose all european matches. If people tell me - as this whole conversation started - that that's oh so bad for portuguese football, I'll keep telling them to feck off and start grasping reality.
Ok, I couldn’t care less who you root for.

Portugal isn’t England or Germany. We’re not going to get anywhere near the same regardless of the TV deal. They get loads of money due to publicity and the size of the league, of course United and Arsenal don’t care about that deal.

It’s not the same in Portugal. Can you give me an example of a League our size doing a TV deal like that?
 

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Ok, I couldn’t care less who you root for.

Portugal isn’t England or Germany. We’re not going to get anywhere near the same regardless of the TV deal. They get loads of money due to publicity and the size of the league, of course United and Arsenal don’t care about that deal.

It’s not the same in Portugal. Can you give me an example of a League our size doing a TV deal like that?
As long as you don't give me the old patronizing bs that "oh but the big 3 winning is so important for our football" we're cool.

I don't want to get near England or Germany, I want to have a fair and competitive league and a collective deal is fundamental for that.

Most countries do collective deals, we are the exception: France, Belgium, Greece, Turkey, Russia, Romania, Denmark, Poland, Switzerland... all have collective deals. I repeat, we are the exception, all studies show that a collective deal benefits the league as a whole, even the top clubs get a little bump in a 3-4 period. It's the big fish in small pond mentality...
 

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No one will ever convince me that supporting a team just because they win often instead of supporting the team that represents your land and your community is not a stupid thing to do. And if a portuguese supported Germany instead of Portugal you would obviously recognize how silly it would be.

And if you think that the widening gap in TV money isn't to blame for the shitshow league we have today, you live in la la land, sorry mate, but if a club gets 100 times more tv money, something is wrong and blaming the presidents of small teams who have to live on peanuts is just disrespectful and wrong. As for the clubs killing themselves, go ask United, Liverpool and Arsenal fans if they don't think a better and more competitive league was better for them long term.

Portuguese fans have a "big fish in small pond" mentality. That's why we have a shit league and we will continue having a shit league.

I will continue to root for turmoil in the big 3 and for them to lose all european matches. If people tell me - as this whole conversation started - that that's oh so bad for portuguese football, I'll keep telling them to feck off and start grasping reality.
I support Sporting because my father supported Sporting and my son never went to Portugal and supports the club more than I ever did, that goes from father to son.
 

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Benfica continue a good start to their season with a convincing 2-0 win in a tough away game.

Sporting win 2-1 both goals coming from our captain ( and former United winger) Nani who made the difference also a good cameo from youngster jovan Cabral 2 games 2 assists. We have won 2 games out of 2 but our midfield is shockingly bad as are our left and right back. Incredible how we have not signed a left back , right back ,cdm or a striker by this point in the window.

Next week is the first Lisbon derby Of the season Benfica vs Sporting I expect Benfica to absolutely steam roll Sporting sadly. But it’s football so who knows what can happen.
 

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Benfica continue a good start to their season with a convincing 2-0 win in a tough away game.

Sporting win 2-1 both goals coming from our captain ( and former United winger) Nani who made the difference also a good cameo from youngster jovan Cabral 2 games 2 assists. We have won 2 games out of 2 but our midfield is shockingly bad as are our left and right back. Incredible how we have not signed a left back , right back ,cdm or a striker by this point in the window.

Next week is the first Lisbon derby Of the season Benfica vs Sporting I expect Benfica to absolutely steam roll Sporting sadly. But it’s football so who knows what can happen.
Didn't get to see Benficas second half today, saw a good bit of you guys though, Nani is a league apart.
 

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We’re crap and Peseiro pisses me off. 2 defensive midfielders and Acuña as winger vs Setúbal at home...

6 points from 6 and I’m already convinced we have no chance.
 

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We’re crap and Peseiro pisses me off. 2 defensive midfielders and Acuña as winger vs Setúbal at home...

6 points from 6 and I’m already convinced we have no chance.
How out of his depth did Ristovski look?
 

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Didn't get to see Benficas second half today, saw a good bit of you guys though, Nani is a league apart.
Nani still is not fully fit but when he is Him and Bruno Fernandes are the best players in our team. Nani can unlock a defense with a moment of magic and that is what we need upfront against these stubborn relegation teams.