[Massive Spanner]

Not really. There was absolutely nothing as clear for Arsenal as the McTominay chance, or the penalty United should have had.

They had 2 chances you'd expect a player to put away 6 or 7 times out of 10. We had 1 that you'd expect a player to put away 9 times out of 10. You also can never rely on penalties, and that's assuming our player would've even put it away.

it's a lazy argument. We weren't good enough to win that game at all. A draw was pretty much a fair result in the end. Two diabolical teams playing out a diabolical match, with two bits of quality for the goals.

How many more times are we going to hear "on another day we could've" this season? It's the exact same excuse we used to use under previous managers too. We have a team that is absolutely shocking at scoring goals, and has been for around 20 games on the trot now. So yeah, on another day we could've scored 3, sadly that day happens around once every 17 games.

 

[Buster15]

Very, very poor quality game. Mindless running around with no plan or cohesion. Haven't got a clue what we're trying to do.

Your point about no plan or cohesion is the key issue.
We don't play as a proper team should because we don't train as a team.
No link up play.
No first time passing at speed.
No running off the ball.
No real quality.
And, more importantly no improvement.
We all know that we have too many very average players. And I include Pogba in that. Can't remember the last time he played well for us.

 

[tony54]

This is part of the issue I have with OgS. I do not expect a Jose type meltdown, that’s counter productive & not his style but less than 2 months ago we sell 2 attackers & he’s preaching how it’s the class of 92 all over again. A few horrendous performances later & apparently the players we want weren’t available in the Summer but we’ll go for them again in the notoriously more difficult January window.

It’s a fine line to walk & you don’t want to undermine your squad but when the fans are expecting top4 to be greeted by this product because OgS was talking lofty, only to then be told a few games in - actually the squad I was happy with isn’t the squad I wanted; we have every right to be a little . . . aggrieved.

Woodward is inept, we all know this but OgS is complicit by now partaking in the charade.

If OgS has anything about him he’d leave if circumstances are as bad as most assume. If I have Fellaini & Herrera leave with no replacement over 2 windows then I have to leave. He won’t leave of course, it’s his dream job but by not doing the ‘right thing’ [imo] I have to judge him as I do the rest of the regime.

I agree with everything you say and the embolden sums it up nicely.
Ogs would show great character if he were to leave, not many would criticize him for working in an painfully inept environment, unless he is indeed complicit in getting rid and thinking there was no need for replacements in midfield and centre forward.
In fact him resigning would highlight how bad the owners and CEO are.

 

[Sultan]

I agree with everything you say and the embolden sums it up nicely.
Ogs would show great character if he were to leave, not many would criticize him for working in an painfully inept environment, unless he is indeed complicit in getting rid and thinking there was no need for replacements in midfield and centre forward.
In fact him resigning would highlight how bad the owners and CEO are.

No football manager in the world would ever say no to purchasing players.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I agree with everything you say and the embolden sums it up nicely.
Ogs would show great character if he were to leave, not many would criticize him for working in an painfully inept environment, unless he is indeed complicit in getting rid and thinking there was no need for replacements in midfield and centre forward.
In fact him resigning would highlight how bad the owners and CEO are.

Why would he not want replacement players? It's got Woodward's fingerprints all over it. Profit. Profit. Profit.

 

[Bouncer001]

Lingard offers absolutely zero in the middle of the park. This is poor selection by Ole. I can't get my head around Andreas wide and Lingard central. Lindelof is getting found out again this season, he is not good enough. Rashford was awful, he can't be relied upon as our main striker.

Tactically I think the transition is too slow at times and the play not direct enough. We gave arsenal too much time to get back into shape. Nullifies the pace in the team.

 

[POF]

They had 2 chances you'd expect a player to put away 6 or 7 times out of 10. We had 1 that you'd expect a player to put away 9 times out of 10. You also can never rely on penalties, and that's assuming our player would've even put it away.

it's a lazy argument. We weren't good enough to win that game at all. A draw was pretty much a fair result in the end. Two diabolical teams playing out a diabolical match, with two bits of quality for the goals.

How many more times are we going to hear "on another day we could've" this season? It's the exact same excuse we used to use under previous managers too. We have a team that is absolutely shocking at scoring goals, and has been for around 20 games on the trot now. So yeah, on another day we could've scored 3, sadly that day happens around once every 17 games.

What 2 chances were they? Toreira's awkward volley and the kid's chance that was blocked? Both half chances at best and nowhere near as clear as McTominay's or the 2 United missed at West Ham. Put it this way, if a United forward had scored either I'd have been shocked.

I'm not making any argument. In the same post I even said how poor United's attacking options are and how they're now in the position of looking on enviously at West Ham's attacking talent.

This United team has been left massively short of attacking talent and is being built off the defence. A few wins in a row, a bit of positive momentum could make a huge difference, especially with such young players. I am just lamenting that the breaks they need to build that momentum aren't going their way.

 

[Massive Spanner]

What 2 chances were they? Toreira's awkward volley and the kid's chance that was blocked? Both half chances at best and nowhere near as clear as McTominay's or the 2 United missed at West Ham. Put it this way, if a United forward had scored either I'd have been shocked.

I'm not making any argument. In the same post I even said how poor United's attacking options are and how they're now in the position of looking on enviously at West Ham's attacking talent.

This United team has been left massively short of attacking talent and is being built off the defence. A few wins in a row, a bit of positive momentum could make a huge difference, especially with such young players. I am just lamenting that the breaks they need to build that momentum aren't going their way.

Yeah the one Lindelof blocked was a clear goalscoring opportunity, and a striker would've probably buried the half volley.

Also, our goal was a deflection from outside the box! That's what it actually took for us to score.

I just don't see the argument. We've scored more than once in 1 of the last 17 games, what other day could we have possibly won that 3-0? A day when our players miraculously start scoring triple the amount of goals they've been managing so far?

We won't get a break or build momentum because we won't start scoring more goals any time soon. This isn't some unlucky spell or something that can be fixed with a game or two of better luck or whatever, this is what we are as a team, a team that can barely score 1 goal in a game, let alone 3.

 

[freddie the red]

Rashford has one goal from open play in 18 games.
Pereira hasn't scored in 15 games.
Lingard hasn't scored in 21 games.
Pogba hasn't scored from open play in 25 games.


I wonder why we cant win though?

5#i7, that's a sobering stat :-(

 

[Thisistheone]

The worst Utd Arsenal game I've ever seen in terms of quality.

Fans were laughing at how bad it was, Roy Keane basically called it garbage & you felt he was holding back a bit.

 

[Volumiza]

Rashford has one goal from open play in 18 games.
Pereira hasn't scored in 15 games.
Lingard hasn't scored in 21 games.
Pogba hasn't scored from open play in 25 games.

Wow, just wow!

 

[StrettyEnder07]

Proper lack of quality last night, we give the ball away an alarming amount of times, so toothless up front.

McTominay is by far and away our best midfielder, sooner Pogba is fecked off and replaced the better.

Lingard, Pereira, Rashford, Young, Lindelof were dreadful

James, Maguire, McTominay all had good games, McTominay my MOTM.

What is the handball rule exactly, you see goals being chalked off because the ball literally touches someones hand, that last night was blatant handball and VAR say its not, what the feck are the rules these days because I am baffled.

All in all very poor, whether Ole gets sacked or not to be honest is pretty irrelevant at the moment as not sure what more can be done with this squad, the lack of quality is alarming, whoever is in charge needs a good 3/4 windows to sort this squad out big time.

 

[Tincanalley]

Why would he not want replacement players? It's got Woodward's fingerprints all over it. Profit. Profit. Profit.

Whose fault is it, anyway, the sad decline of Manchester United FC?
The Media?
The Glazers?
Woody?
Ole (and past managers)?
The Players?

It's not the media's fault, despite Ole's remarks yesterday. All of the rest have to take some measure of blame. For me ...

The Glazers
Woody (Glazer-puppet)
Ole (in Over his Little 'Ead, bless 'im)
The Players (bought and picked and trained by those above them, but not without responsibility. Some just not up to it, others trying hard, others all at sea)

I could imagine many of the players improving and clicking as a team under the right setup. Sad thing is, I don't see the path to that day without root and branch change at the club.

 

[Banana Republic]

Wages last year, up to the highest ever at £332.3m p.a.
That's up £36m, i.e. a 12.3% increase over the previous year.

Over the last 16 EPL games since losing away to Arsenal in March (last 9 of the 2018/19 season, plus the first 7 of this season).

3 games where we've scored more than 1 goal.
8 games scoring 1 goal.
5 games scoring 0 goals.

Played 16
W 4
D 5
L 7

Home games Won 4 out of 9
Away games Won 0 out of 7

17 points out of 48


x

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Ed really fecked up not getting in another attacker and RW this summer, because of that Perreira and Lingard are starters and both do feck all in every game I watch them in.

Imagine the threat we get from James down the left, but on the right as well. We have been saying year after year we are lopsided and nothing has changed. Except now we do not have a goalscorer up front either.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

The Battle of the Fallen Giants. Or, as Indonesian TV was apparently advertising it - 'Clash of the Struggler'. Very apt description. The worst United vs. Arsenal clash I can remember in terms of each team's players and the quality of football on show.

By our standards, so since Ole was made permanent, it was actually a pretty good performance. Make of that what you will. Personally, I just think it shows how awful we regularly are, when simply putting together a few quick counter-attacks and vaguely threatening their goal makes a semi-good performance.

In general though, it was a very typical United performance.

No major goal threat; one goal scored; goal in question coming from a moment of individual brilliance rather than anything else.

I'm not actually mad with that result, 1-1 was probably fair.

AWB missing was a big loss but I still have absolutely no idea why Ole played Axel on the left, when Young is comfortable there? Maguire was okay but still is disappointing me a bit - not in terms of "he doesn't look an 85m player" because we know that. Where he is disappointing me is in terms of "he isn't showing the leadership I expected". I expected him to be dominating that back four but at present, he isn't really, hopefully that improves.

Axel's mistake will always happen to young, inexperienced defenders and he should never have been at LB so I'm not holding his rough performance against him.

Pogba had around 3-4 moments where you think "Christ, he could be amazing", but that's it. Lingard was invisibile as always and will definitely start the next league game as a reward. Pereira I thought didn't play too badly by his standards.

Rashy - well, not as bad as previous games but still, laughable at times and it's becoming a dead horse now. Can't fault his effort but everything else is lacking. Dan James is definitely our best player in the entire starting 11, which is bonkers.

 

[momo83]

I agree with this "unpopular" opinion. Execution and precision were missing but the fire, creativity, dedication, thinking and vision were all there. Which is key because you can hone precision in training, you cannot train for what we saw today and what has been missing in most of the matches for years.

There may, indeed, be hope for this club if they play like today and improve execution over time. I am willing to be very patient if we are on the right trajectory. It does hurt immensely to be #10 in the league, though But it's all about where we are heading… as long as we don't get relegated FFS

We were involved in an entertaining match and i was happy to have been entertained.... Are we on the right track?
Watford had 31 shots vs Arsenal and scored 2, Villa scored 2 vis Arsenal.

So yeah it was more about Arsenal being easy then it was about us improving tactically

 

[Wolff]

Thought it was an entertaining game to watch. Big step in the right direction with some pace, urge and good energy. Good energy also on the stadium. Some plays I couldn’t be half arsed watching, others are going places. Like Tuanzebe. Log on to this place, and it like you want to kill yourself again. So fecking depressing.

 

[Jonno]

We're 2 points off spurs who have looked atrocious and a few weeks ago beat Leicester who barely threatened us... it's been 7 games. Yeah we aren't great, but this constant overrating of the others around us does my head in. Spurs have been shite for like 10 months now. Arsenal are shite as they showed today. Chelsea are beyond useless defensively. Leicester are nicely balanced but and have a shot but they won't stay consistent because that's not their level to stay consistent.

Spurs have a better squad, better club stability, and a better manager, who have proven they can be consistent every season.
Leicester have a marginally better squad, play much better football, have a better manager and play very well as a team.

That’s why I think both will finish above us. After that, it’s a shootout for 5th, 6th and 7th.

We seem incapable of scoring more than 1 goal a game, we have no real game plan when we go a goal up, we’re incapable of keeping control of a game for longer than an hour, at which point we concede. And to top that off, the manager seems really pleased we “tried really hard and were unlucky”.

I’ve backed Ole for months, but his inability to diversify and change it when this clearly isn’t working, isn’t good enough. He slumps in his chair, whispers to his assistants, looks hurt his boys are being outplayed and has nothing to combat it with. I want to see fight, higher standards, better systems of play. It’s all very average, but that’s what you get for employing an unproven manager. Very similar to Moyes.

 

[RAVred]

We genuinely have one of the worst "#9's" in the league. Lukaku haters must start to realise how delusional they were

 

[POF]

Yeah the one Lindelof blocked was a clear goalscoring opportunity, and a striker would've probably buried the half volley.

Also, our goal was a deflection from outside the box! That's what it actually took for us to score.

I just don't see the argument. We've scored more than once in 1 of the last 17 games, what other day could we have possibly won that 3-0? A day when our players miraculously start scoring triple the amount of goals they've been managing so far?

We won't get a break or build momentum because we won't start scoring more goals any time soon. This isn't some unlucky spell or something that can be fixed with a game or two of better luck or whatever, this is what we are as a team, a team that can barely score 1 goal in a game, let alone 3.

So, you don't see any way that McTominay can put a free header from 5 yards out on target or that United could score a penalty? I agree with you that the attack lacks quality but is it so hard to believe that a professional footballer could score a header that I'd back myself to put away?

If McTominay's shot was deflected, it deviated an inch at most. It was as clean a strike as you'll see.

This team scored 4 against Chelsea not that many games ago. They got ahead, defended well and counter attacked with quality. That was exactly how the Arsenal game was panning out until the mistake for the equaliser.

Confidence and momentum are huge with young players. Under Fergie, United knew how to win, even when playing poorly. This team continues to find ways to drop points.

Do I think this is a good United team? Of course not. But I think they've been the better team in the majority of their games this season and should have at least another 4-6 points.

 

[red4ever 79]

Because of the love in for Ole we are lowering our standards and accepting this crap just to justify keeping him. That first half was as bad as anything I have seen. What is the plan tactically? Why is Pogba playing so deep? Why did he play Tuanzebe on the left when he is right footed? Why did Lingard start again when he offers nothing? Why were the subs made so late? Why did Greenwood not start when he is full of confidence? What are we working on to improve the attacking side of our game

 

[Massive Spanner]

So, you don't see any way that McTominay can put a free header from 5 yards out on target or that United could score a penalty? I agree with you that the attack lacks quality but is it so hard to believe that a professional footballer could score a header that I'd back myself to put away?

If McTominay's shot was deflected, it deviated an inch at most. It was as clean a strike as you'll see.

This team scored 4 against Chelsea not that many games ago. They got ahead, defended well and counter attacked with quality. That was exactly how the Arsenal game was panning out until the mistake for the equaliser.

Confidence and momentum are huge with young players. Under Fergie, United knew how to win, even when playing poorly. This team continues to find ways to drop points.

Do I think this is a good United team? Of course not. But I think they've been the better team in the majority of their games this season and should have at least another 4-6 points.

I think sometimes stats speak for themselves and we haven't scored more than 1 goal a game in 15 of our last 17 games. The Chelsea game was an anomaly, not something we can attempt to look towards as a standard. I also really don't think we've been the better team in any of the games we lost, and 1-1 last night was a fair result. I don't see the point in dwelling on missed chances and unfair decisions because things tend to even out. We've been given loads of penalties this season already and failed to convert quite a few of them.

Results generally speak for themselves. I think if you take one or two in isolation and say we were unlucky then that's fair enough, but when this consistently happens across a sustained period of time then bringing luck into it makes no sense.

Obviously you see things differently to me which is fine, at least we can both agree that we've been shit!

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Yeah the one Lindelof blocked was a clear goalscoring opportunity, and a striker would've probably buried the half volley.

Also, our goal was a deflection from outside the box! That's what it actually took for us to score.

I just don't see the argument. We've scored more than once in 1 of the last 17 games, what other day could we have possibly won that 3-0? A day when our players miraculously start scoring triple the amount of goals they've been managing so far?

We won't get a break or build momentum because we won't start scoring more goals any time soon. This isn't some unlucky spell or something that can be fixed with a game or two of better luck or whatever, this is what we are as a team, a team that can barely score 1 goal in a game, let alone 3.

I'm with you on this, so sick and tired of seeing us look clueless and scared when we go a goal up. After Chelsea I tried my best not to get carried away but I was at least pleased with how clinical we were, taking our chances when they were presented and being so willing and able to turn an opponent's desperation to our advantage. After that game we've been poor in front of goal, poor at managing games and insistent on gifting teams ways back into matches.

 

[Jonno]

Clear penalty not given, McTominay missed a sitter and the goal conceded was an absolute howler. On another day that could have been a comfortable 3-0 win.

The team are just finding ways to drop points at the moment. Saddest of all, United are dropping points due to the opposition having attacking players of superior quality. It's depressing when you look on enviously at players like Aubameyang and Yarmolenko, wishing that United had attacking talent like that.

No, that would rely on EVERYTHING going our way, and nothing going Arsenals way. Which doesn’t happen in football every week.

We used to completely dominate games and create more than 2-3 clear cut chances and restrict the opponents to 1-2, or none. That way, if the other team had a slice of luck, it didn’t matter because we’d win 3-1, 3-2. Not draw 1-1 or lose 1-2. But now, we’re not good enough to do that and have to rely on everything going our way to win a game. Like it did against Chelsea, but not against Wolves, West Ham, Arsenal, etc.

 

[Sweet Square]

We're 2 points off spurs who have looked atrocious and a few weeks ago beat Leicester who barely threatened us... it's been 7 games. Yeah we aren't great, but this constant overrating of the others around us does my head in. Spurs have been shite for like 10 months now. Arsenal are shite as they showed today. Chelsea are beyond useless defensively. Leicester are nicely balanced but and have a shot but they won't stay consistent because that's not their level to stay consistent.

This is too sensible. Shut it!!!!

 

[Berbasbullet]

Problem is even at 1-1 in the past you knew we would come at them and create chances.

We no longer create anything. We are so utterly impotent and have been for 4-5 years.

 

[POF]

I think sometimes stats speak for themselves and we haven't scored more than 1 goal a game in 15 of our last 17 games. The Chelsea game was an anomaly, not something we can attempt to look towards as a standard. I also really don't think we've been the better team in any of the games we lost, and 1-1 last night was a fair result. I don't see the point in dwelling on missed chances and unfair decisions because things tend to even out. We've been given loads of penalties this season already and failed to convert quite a few of them.

Results generally speak for themselves. I think if you take one or two in isolation and say we were unlucky then that's fair enough, but when this consistently happens across a sustained period of time then bringing luck into it makes no sense.

Obviously you see things differently to me which is fine, at least we can both agree that we've been shit!

There's a bit more to it than that though. That is a terrible stat but if they could put penalties away they'd have scored 8 in 3 games to start the season.

It's also no coincidence that they were the only 3 games Martial has played this season. They're super short of attacking options and needed a lot of luck with injuries in attack. They took a huge gamble with the depth in attack and losing Martial was a terrible blow.

Without Martial and with Rashford in this form, they've got nothing in attack. Getting ahead, defending well and counter attacking with speed is how this team can win. So, huge chances like McTominay vs Arsenal or Mata/Maguire at West Ham are pivotal moments in these games.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Not sure if I want Ole gone or not, because a lot of the problems will still be here, but him and his coaches really need to take a look at themselves, they take some of the blame, it isn't all on the players. We do not appear to have a system, a bit of a system maybe, but not a full system. They should be working constantly to perfect it, morning and afternoon until they know it to perfection. That each player knows exactly where a teammate will be. A telepathy. At times they play like they only met that morning. Have a system, but know how to make slight tweeks if not working quite as you like, don't ditch it and try another system.

 

[R'hllor]

When you go back and read the all drivel after Chelsea game and follow ups, holy shit.

 

[Massive Spanner]

There's a bit more to it than that though. That is a terrible stat but if they could put penalties away they'd have scored 8 in 3 games to start the season.

It's also no coincidence that they were the only 3 games Martial has played this season. They're super short of attacking options and needed a lot of luck with injuries in attack. They took a huge gamble with the depth in attack and losing Martial was a terrible blow.

Without Martial and with Rashford in this form, they've got nothing in attack. Getting ahead, defending well and counter attacking with speed is how this team can win. So, huge chances like McTominay vs Arsenal or Mata/Maguire at West Ham are pivotal moments in these games.

There really isn't mate. You're just posting excuses at the end of the day. If we scored these penalties, if we put these chances away, if if if. It's meaningless. We've played those 17 games and that's what happened. We are toothless in attack and rarely look like scoring. We generally haven't deserved to win the games we've drawn or lost. Results speak for themselves, but if you want to dream up hypothetical scenarios where we'd be better off if one thing or another happened, go ahead, I believe Liverpool fans used to love doing that.

 

[Sandikan]

When you go back and read the all drivel after Chelsea game and follow ups, holy shit.

Is it worse than all the drivel since?

 

[Seb burrow]

I’ve noticed this a lot with United, floating the ball into the box for maguire but for whatever reason NOBODY follows up around him for the second ball. Surely if we’re saying get it on maguire’s head we should be telling the players to get on the end of the flick on. We really do need Ole to step up on training tactics.

We also need to put someone other than Pogba alongside Scotty (who is brilliant btw), Lingard needs dropping (selling) and pogba should play higher up.

If this teams to progress we need some serious investment in mature experienced players, which will be difficult because you’ll be paying top dollar for players who have a short career at the club. We need to do this soon otherwise these kids will suffer mentally with the pressure their under playing for us, you can already see it taking effect on some.

Overall the game was a slight improvement for me, just need to learn to push on a kill teams off.

 

[Withnail]

It wasn't a great performance and many of the team aren't good enough but again what good work the team did was undone by a defensive lapse, which is incredibly frustrating.
There was the penalty not given, but we can't rely on those, and the team aren't creating enough chances but if we could cut out the individual errors in defence we wouldn't be doing too badly.

 

[Sandikan]

Not really. There was absolutely nothing as clear for Arsenal as the McTominay chance, or the penalty United should have had.

Except their guy basically missing from 8 yards out with the whole goal open, amazingly luck saw it brush Lindelöf and go over.

 

[R'hllor]

Is it worse than all the drivel since?

Depends of level of delusion.

 

[Sandikan]

We're 2 points off spurs who have looked atrocious and a few weeks ago beat Leicester who barely threatened us... it's been 7 games. Yeah we aren't great, but this constant overrating of the others around us does my head in. Spurs have been shite for like 10 months now. Arsenal are shite as they showed today. Chelsea are beyond useless defensively. Leicester are nicely balanced but and have a shot but they won't stay consistent because that's not their level to stay consistent.

This is very true.
But it's akin to being told off at work for being lazy and sh!t at your job, and you pointing at everyone else and saying "well, so are they".

It's no real comfort or alibi!

 

[Sandikan]

Depends of level of delusion.

Not sure too many people were getting carried away on the first day.
But we're surely not so poor that we can't score more than 1 goal against anyone!

 

[R'hllor]

Not sure too many people were getting carried away on the first day.
But we're surely not so poor that we can't score more than 1 goal against anyone!

Oh many took of example of Chelsea game to have a go at those who had issue and fears going into games after. Using terms like demolished, when in reality it never was a 4:0 game.

People raised concerns about our ability to break defenses in pre Palace game and Chelsea game was thrown in their faces. Dont even know what happened with that thread made by Wum lord.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It wasn't a great performance and many of the team aren't good enough but again what good work the team did was undone by a defensive lapse, which is incredibly frustrating.
There was the penalty not given, but we can't rely on those, and the team aren't creating enough chances but if we could cut out the individual errors in defence we wouldn't be doing too badly.

The big trouble we have is yes we got a goal, but then struggle to get more so are always at risk of a defensive lapse or a wonder goal from the opposition to undo everything. It must really sap the confidence of the players. Some clinical finishing would solve it, you would think that would be the simple solution, but not for us it isn't.