[Rightnr]

Outperforms any manager we have had in terms of the premier league, first with two consecutive top 4 finishes.

A challenge for the league is needed this season and I think we will.

This thread has a lot of barmy folk.

He also outspent all of them combined and has had every player he wanted. Every player.

And if you measure our success by consecutive top 4 finishes, I have a team or two in London you can support that do the same.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Not sure how you got away with this post.

Yeah, disgusting and not even fair based on today. McTominay was far far worse in my opinion. Fred broke up play on numerous occasions and even managed the odd through all. What did Scott do? He was absolutely useless.

 

[stw2022]

He also outspent all of them combined and has had every player he wanted. Every player.

And if you measure our success by consecutive top 4 finishes, I have a team or two in London you can support that do the same.

Oh come off it, don't you remember the days when every United fan was praising Wenger when the limits of his ambition was to simply get into the top four?


....me neither.

 

[Hammondo]

I don’t think so but one things for sure, not one of those villa players would get into our team yet they played us off the park.

Thats fair.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Outperforms any manager we have had in terms of the premier league, first with two consecutive top 4 finishes.

A challenge for the league is needed this season and I think we will.

This thread has a lot of barmy folk.

And indeed he should based on that squad. I’m not gonna go in on Ole. He’s done well up to now and he deserves his chance. But he needs to recognize his weaknesses and hire better coaches. Someone who can persuade him that McFred is not the answer. Someone who will help him take more risks and be more ruthless. Someone who can sort out our midfield and help us play better football. They exist. Carrick and McKenna are not it. But they do rhyme with it.

 

[antohan]

A well coached team can get but with either Fred or McTominay besides Pogba.

Not a chance in hell, unless by well coached you mean somehow reprogramming Pogba.

Anyone who watched the defeat vs West Ham will have noticed that VDB has the potential to play a 6, plus he has good forward passing ability. Obviously it would take time and it will be a role that he would master over time… but most of the best 6’s in modern were originally attacking CM’s eg Pirlo, Verratti, im guessing Rodri started out as an attacking CM, in the world of the 433 you play an intelligent, technical number 10 who can read the game as a 6.

This I agree with as scope for coaching and improving our midfield. Completely different attitude and discipline.

 

[HailtotheKing]

He also outspent all of them combined and has had every player he wanted. Every player.

And if you measure our success by consecutive top 4 finishes, I have a team or two in London you can support that do the same.

Not exactly true. This is the first time he got what he wanted. He wanted Grealish and got Vdb. He wanted Haaland and Bellingham. He wanted Sancho a year before. He probably wanted Rice. But there are no excuses now. He has a great squad and he should’ve got a CDM instead of Sancho.

 

[croadyman]

We know what must be done but we're not Chelsea.

Yeah it will be allowed to just drift much like we saw under LVG in 15/16

 

[Rightnr]

Not exactly true. This is the first time he got what he wanted. He wanted Grealish and got Vdb. He wanted Haaland and Bellingham. He wanted Sancho a year before. He probably wanted Rice. But there are no excuses now. He has a great squad and he should’ve got a CDM instead of Sancho.

If he sold Lingard and Donny, he could have had Rice. His inadequate running of the squad means we cannot add players he wants and are stacked with players he cannot seemingly use in the most efficient way.

I am glad we have a great squad like this because it seems like this is the only way for our fans to see what's absolutely obvious to any other fan in the PL.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Hard to know. Arteta is so new to the managerial world that you have no idea what he can do with a better team.

I think it’s almost impossible to get smashed with a team like this. We have a very strong defense and two holding mods standing in front of them. Then we have rapid fire counters. That team should never get smashed unless we are going for broke at the end like against West Ham.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

This I agree with as scope for coaching and improving our midfield. Completely different attitude and discipline.

That would be my preferred number 6, but I don’t think our manager has the vision to even see it and don’t think we have the coaching to pull it off. I would however love to be wrong

 

[davidmichael]

A game at home when we need creativity from midfield and should be on the attack is when Pogba should be used in the two man midfield, instead we played McTominay and Fred which basically says everything about Ole as a head coach I’m afraid.

Said so many times over the past couple of years that Ole was or is the perfect person to be our head of recruitment or director of football as he gets the players or characters needed but simply isn’t a good enough coach let alone head coach, look at the forward options we have and it’s unreal that we struggle like we do which is down to coaching and tactics.

 

[antohan]

He's not rejigging shit. It's more of the same old with new pieces slotting into the same "system"

Fair enough if your argument is the system is fecked.

If what you are saying is slotting new better pieces into the same system should produce better results (what most posts say pointing at player quality/status/cost) you are overlooking each piece is an individual that has to get used to new pieces.

 

[dal]

He also outspent all of them combined and has had every player he wanted. Every player.

And if you measure our success by consecutive top 4 finishes, I have a team or two in London you can support that do the same.

Really? I must have missed signing Grealish then.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

A game at home when we need creativity from midfield and should be on the attack is when Pogba should be used in the two man midfield, instead we played McTominay and Fred which basically says everything about Ole as a head coach I’m afraid.

Said so many times over the past couple of years that Ole was or is the perfect person to be our head of recruitment or director of football as he gets the players or characters needed but simply isn’t a good enough coach let alone head coach, look at the forward options we have and it’s unreal that we struggle like we do which is down to coaching and tactics.

Ole is frightened of every team he plays which is why he chooses McFred, We have a great squad, other teams should be scared of them, not the other way round.

 

[Judas]

Games like today make me dread that we'll see the same negative tactics against anyone half decent once again. At least we'll give City a game once again at their place though.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Fair enough if your argument is the system is fecked.

If what you are saying is slotting new better pieces into the same system should produce better results (what most posts say pointing at player quality/status/cost) you are overlooking each piece is an individual that has to get used to new pieces.

I think it's pretty obvious what i think of the system by putting it in inverted commas. I'll take door number 1 please.

The easiest way to spot this is to look at our pressing. 3 years in and it's usually random; who presses, where they press, how long they press for etc.

 

[SilentWitness]

Hate playing you lot when you have something to prove. Benitez is tactically on another level to Ole but you have far better players than us and our defence is shaky. Only nice thing for us is that Allan and Doucoure shouldn't have trouble dominating McFred

 

[DeGea]

Very much so.
The PL can be brutal. And it will always find you out.
Yes they lost today. But when you watch and listen to coaches like Tuchal, as well as Pep and Klopp, you can understand their intelligence.
I cannot say that Ole is intelligent. And he is being found out.

Absolutely. During SAF’s time you can get away with “man management” and hoping for individual brilliance to do the job week in week out. But in the modern game, every team now is pretty good so to have the edge you need to be brilliant tactically. The other issue is United are so obsessed with legacy and all these romantic sentimental nonsense that we persevere with mediocrity because he’s a club legend etc2.

 

[OrcaFat]

I don’t think so but one things for sure, not one of those villa players would get into our team yet they played us off the park.

Not on any level. But a few of their guys played better than some of ours today and probably would get in our team based on today.

People do overestimate the quality of our players at times.

Our main problem is CM. It doesn’t really matter how high or low you rate their natural abilities or attributes, McFred (and our other options) do not play well often enough. I don’t believe this is a technical coaching problem but one of judgement. McFred have a decent top level and, in my opinion, the coaches are selecting them based on hope rather than rational expectation. It should have been clear to everyone at the club by the end of last season that we are asking too much of them.

I can’t turn every problem into a moan about our CM but it is the root of our ills.

 

[United Hobbit]

Unfortunately we have Liverpool vs Brentford on, as my partner supports them. Worryingly, Brentford look better coached than we do....

Ole is out of his depth this is not a reactionary comment, I've long said he's taken us as far as he can. He's laid some solid foundations but now we need a world class manager to build on those

We've got, bar the DM, a strong team and should be challenging for things. Going out of the league Cup then floundering against Aston Villa, having also lost to Young Boys really doesn't look great

The lack of coaching and game changing decisions is apparent

He should have nowhere to hide this season we've made strong signings

I got the first thought during the CL game, when Ronaldo and Bruno were leaping around behind him while he stood meekly, that he may just lose the dressing room if he doesn't sort things out. He's no longer just got a bunch of his favourites/yes men eg Rashy/J Lingz/ Mc T etc he's got winners such as Ronaldo/Varane/ strong characters such as Fernández who I can't see being content with struggling against teams we should be beating if we want to win things

Trouble is we don't know what his minimum performance criteria are that mean he won't be sacked. The warning signs were there, we should have waited until Christmas before renewing him, which would have given time to see how we did in the league and cups. Noone was going to poach him, which in itself says someone.

He's starting to sound like Moyes in interviews, anyone know what he said today?

I just hope the board are decisive. Chelsea swiftly removed Lampard, another club legend and fan favourite, and went on and won the CL....

 

[2mufc0]

Yeah we didn't play well today.

 

[Androw]

The biggest issue is that we dont have a playing style. We dont controll games because of that.. players dont know what to do on the pitch at times

 

[HailtotheKing]

Not on any level. But a few of their guys played better than some of ours today and probably would get in our team based on today.

People do overestimate the quality of our players at times.

Our main problem is CM. It doesn’t really matter how high or low you rate their natural abilities or attributes, McFred (and our other options) do not play well often enough. I don’t believe this is a technical coaching problem but one of judgement. McFred have a decent top level and, in my opinion, the coaches are selecting them based on hope rather than rational expectation. It should have been clear to everyone at the club by the end of last season that we are asking too much of them.

I can’t turn every problem into a moan about our CM but it is the root of our ills.

The CM is definitely the root of our ills. And I agree it’s a bit hyperbolic to say they played us off the park but they definitely had better chances and could have scored more. And I don’t think we overestimate our players. We have great players that would show how much better they are were they to be coached better. We need better coaches. Simple.

 

[Gasmeter]

It has concerned people for quite a long time, though.

I respect that, and other people's opinion. But I have supported and loved this club for 30 years, so I have to believe in them. During the good times and the bad. There have been some instances where you can make arguments and justifications for things happening, but over the course of these past few games, I have to ask questions, and I am now catching up with other people's concerns.

On the one hand I want to believe, but on the other, I cannot see how I can argue that this is the United way. That the history of the Club is being honoured by the current regime. Whilst I am not completely calling for Olés head yet, I cannot look at these performances, and feel any sort of confidence in how we are being coached. I don't think I would completely pinpoint that with conviction in the past with the level and attitude of the players we have had, but that team today that was fielded has an immense level of footballing talent within its own hands, and it was feeble.

I just don't know what's going to happend from here on out.

 

[VivaUnited21]

The CM is definitely the root of our ills. And I agree it’s a bit hyperbolic to say they played us off the park but they definitely had better chances and could have scored more. And I don’t think we overestimate our players. We have great players that would show how much better they are were they to be coached better. We need better coaches. Simple.

This definitely.

Still fuming at today, it's gonna be a tough month of games in October and if we play like that we will get absolutely hammered.

 

[glazed]

Things that would improve us:

A defensive midfielder
A high press

As the former is one player and the latter involves full scale surgery on the squad and the coaching staff, I think we should settle for the former.

 

[antohan]

I think it's pretty obvious what i think of the system by putting it in inverted commas. I'll take door number 1 please.

The easiest way to spot this is to look at our pressing. 3 years in and it's usually random; who presses, where they press, how long they press for etc.

I gathered, thus door #1.

It's door #2 that bugs me. Good window, yes, but I largely expected it to mean roughly replicating last season with its ups and downs yet not falling on our arse the moment we got to the top in January.

 

[mav_9me]

You reckon? It just felt like our regular lack of ideas on how to unlock a defence in the final third.

I know right. Tbf we were particularly worse today. Usually the opposition gives us the ball and tries to counter, while we naff around with the ball Today Villa came to play, which theoretically should help us hit on the counter ourselves but they just played better and we shit ourselves.

 

[mav_9me]

The one thing I wanted to point out was the difference between us and Chelsea vs Villa. In their game too in first half Villa went toe to toe and could have deservedly taken the lead. But guess what Chelsea took a grip on the game in 2nd half and managed to see it out. We on the other hand had no clue what to do, got worse and ultimately got completely outplayed.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I gathered, thus door #1.

It's door #2 that bugs me. Good window, yes, but I largely expected it to mean roughly replicating last season with its ups and downs yet not falling on our arse the moment we got to the top in January.

It's linked to the first door too. The better the system, the less the variance and your highs and lows are more manageable.

 

[Red Shorts]

Yeah, you are the peak of rationality.

This is like seeing a man in the sea screaming 'I can't swim' but not taking action until he's 5 seconds away from drowning. OGS is drowning in his incompetence and taking our title ambitions with him. We are simply not winning anything with this guy in charge.

And, by the way, if you think your points are 'rational', you might need to contact the Oxford dictionary so that they change their definition to what you understand the word to be because currenntly you are as rational as a blind man running against traffic on the motorway.

Sorry, but just read your posts today and you scream a person who just has negativity running through their veins.

Go on, name a manager to replace Ole as of today. Lets say He's sacked after this game, who do we go for right now?

 

[antohan]

The CM is definitely the root of our ills. And I agree it’s a bit hyperbolic to say they played us off the park but they definitely had better chances and could have scored more. And I don’t think we overestimate our players. We have great players that would show how much better they are were they to be coached better. We need better coaches. Simple.

That's because we are home and pushing forward. When teams play like that against us we get plenty of chances and score quite a few (see Leeds), so they don't.

That's why they get 2-3 clearcut chances while we just seem to spend all game running into traffic. Simple.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Football at the highest level is a complicated chess match. Better players gives you better pieces but ultimately it's a mental game. Ole was a great player. Very underrated and we all loved him while he played for us but he is a very average manager. That should never be what we want in a manager. We should demand someone at the top of the game.

 

[OrcaFat]

The CM is definitely the root of our ills. And I agree it’s a bit hyperbolic to say they played us off the park but they definitely had better chances and could have scored more. And I don’t think we overestimate our players. We have great players that would show how much better they are were they to be coached better. We need better coaches. Simple.

I wouldn’t mind better coaches. I would welcome them, why not?

 

[Desert Eagle]

Sorry, but just read your posts today and you scream a person who just has negativity running through their veins.

Go on, name a manager to replace Ole as of today. Lets say He's sacked after this game, who do we go for right now?

Conte or Zidane

 

[Counterfactual]

Games like today make me dread that we'll see the same negative tactics against anyone half decent once again. At least we'll give City a game once again at their place though.

That's half the problem. We've gone from swashbuckling to scared of our own shadow.

 

[Flytan]

Sorry, but just read your posts today and you scream a person who just has negativity running through their veins.

Go on, name a manager to replace Ole as of today. Lets say He's sacked after this game, who do we go for right now?

Conte. I'll take someone with some pedigree and winning mentality. Tired of this feel-good-nepotism-infused managerial ride.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I’m curious to know if anyone felt confident going into today’s game? Aston Villa at home. After they sold last season’s talisman. With the transfer business we did over the summer. Surely this was a fixture we should have felt bullish going into? But I fecking knew we’d struggle. Didn’t the rest of you feel the same, deep down?

Which speaks volumes about where we are and our realistic expectations for this season….

 

[simplyared]

Tbf what surprises me most is the level Ason Villa are at. They've lost their star player yet they're quality throughout the team (apart from Ings). Mings outclassed both our CB's. Cash outclassed both our fullbacks and McGinn outclassed both McT and Fred. And they have a coach who outclassed anything we have. To all our new additions: "welcome to the PL!"