FA W FA Cup 3rd Round

Manchester United 1:0 Aston Villa

Post-match discussion


Mon, 10 January 2022

Nordmore

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Absolutely awful...... yet again. It was exactly what I expected but this was one of those weeks we managed to sneak a win.

I'm at a complete loss as to why we are so bad now. It can't be the fault of Moyes, LVG, Jose, Ole and Ralf surely? This means it must be the players, but how on earth do you solve that issue? Is it a case of shipping out 2 or 3 really bad eggs (Pogba & Martial?) and bringing in one or two others? It seems the issues are deeper than that.

I think the best we hope for this weekend is another lucky narrow win.
Imo if this is the case we'll have to start from the very basics like work ethic, motivation and commitment. Get rid of anyone who can't or refuse to adapt. Then bring in some youth. It may take another year for the squad to gel and play modern football but it'll worth it in the long run imo.

Personally I don't mind the results at all as long as we don't get relegated.
 

Craig Ward

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Since Ralf has came in, not a lot has changed.

I think Ralf is a brilliant footballing man, he clearly has a great understanding of the game and has a vision of how the game should be played.

My issue with him is simple really: His style takes time to implement and is very specific and he seems to do his best work from a DOF position with a manager tweeking his style rather than being an out and out manager himself. Sure i read he's managed 2 seasons in the last 9?

So for an Interim to work - it's obvious you need a quick change around and quick wins. I'm really glad we are planning more long term with Ralf, but his style does not suit our players one bit. He's not playing to anyone's strength from what i've seen.

We dont use the width well, we dont control midfield and we dont create many clear chances. We are still error prone at the back and dont seem to press very well.

Given that the bulk of players here seem incapable of the basics in football - and have failed under previous managers i'd say we are pretty much doomed whatever manager or style we have - simply as the players dont follow instructions very well. That was the end of Ole and why there's all talk of unrest under Ralf - the players aren't upto it.

Lucky again against Villa - who i thought played well and deserved a lot more from the game. It was not enjoyable to watch from a utd viewpoint, it was painful on times how easy Villa dominated us, especially in central midfield. I opted for McTom as my MOTM but he was the best of a bad bunch in truth - his game was full of errors just like everyone else.

We didnt track any runners, we were slow to react to 2nd balls, we were static and played with zero intensity. No movement from forwards - no overlapping from the full backs and no pressing. A game played in 4th or 5th gear in the cup at home - abysmal.

Fernandes is a shadow of the player he looked last year, Greenwood seems to have gone backwards and Rashford really needs to work on the basics - he's gone AWOL. Shaw is also in decline - looks like he's running in quick sand.

I know Ralf has spoken about us being reactive but I've seen nothing at all to suggest this group of players can implement any form of a style from any manager - we are rotten to the core
 

wolvored

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Went to watch it at the pub with mates but arrived just after the goal. Asked the landlord he said utd started well. I must have jinxed it then as they were awful for the rest of the match. You can see Villa having their own back this weekend.
 

minoo-utd

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Well I don't want to judge him quickly but from what I have seen so far from RR, it seems his place should not be on the touch line, he might make better change and creates better bigger ideas but not as a manager.
 

ICHM

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We have a squad full of wingers and we play narrow. Clearly the manager has not a clue.
 

Ixion

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I thought we started OK, opening 15 minutes or so. After that as usual the opposition starts to dominate the midfield and gains confidence and we end up sinking back and soaking up pressure. Weird to see McTominay MOTM, take away the goal and I don't think he gets a mention.

Glad to see Lindelof back, couple of mistakes but he'll be larking sharpness and has gone through a lot so not going to dwell on it. Good on Dalot to play through his cut, I think he deserves to start of AWB.

Nice cameo from Elanga. Rashford needs to be used for balls in behind or over the top to use his pace, getting it to him on the wing and expecting him to dribble or whip a cross in isn't working.
 

Foxbatt

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I thought we started OK, opening 15 minutes or so. After that as usual the opposition starts to dominate the midfield and gains confidence and we end up sinking back and soaking up pressure. Weird to see McTominay MOTM, take away the goal and I don't think he gets a mention.

Glad to see Lindelof back, couple of mistakes but he'll be larking sharpness and has gone through a lot so not going to dwell on it. Good on Dalot to play through his cut, I think he deserves to start of AWB.

Nice cameo from Elanga. Rashford needs to be used for balls in behind or over the top to use his pace, getting it to him on the wing and expecting him to dribble or whip a cross in isn't working.
I was shocked too. I thought DeGea kept us in the game. That said McTominay had a decent few early minutes in the first half. What I noticed was that we do get opportunities to pass forward but the mindset has been to pass it backwards and sideways. All the players. It is only we get to think to pass forward we can progress.
 

::sonny::

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They tried many times to get Villa score with many killer back-passes

Anyway without Maguire a clean sheet, not surprised
 

DON’T PANIC ™

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Did Ralf speak to the press after the game? If so, where can I read his post match comments? I assume he wasn't happy with anything other than the result.
 

redmanx

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Well I don't want to judge him quickly but from what I have seen so far from RR, it seems his place should not be on the touch line, he might make better change and creates better bigger ideas but not as a manager.
No matter what Rangnick does or any other manager they are not responsible for the horrendous multitude of unforced errors, errors a schoolboy would be ashamed of committing. I lost count, again, of the number of times we gave the ball away, or gifted it to Villa through sloppy ball control, or over hit and under hit passes; then theres the constant problem we have of clearing our lines and poor decision making. These are highly paid professional footballers but some of them havent even mastered the basics it seems. Maybe, every time a pass goes astray or the ball is given away needlessly the culprit should be fined £5000; that might make them be a bit more careful!
 

Sandikan

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I'm making the assumption that they are spreading a lot of negativity off the pitch and that's one of the reasons they don't play?

This is all complete guess work of course and i agree it's probably miles from the truth.......... I just can't figure out what the actually issue is and how to solve it? Scary times for us.
Well Pogba has done a bad injury for one thing..but who knows on Martial.
 

Maticmaker

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I lost count, again, of the number of times we gave the ball away, or gifted it to Villa through sloppy ball control, or over hit and under hit passes;
For me this is a central question how can professional players make so many unforced errors?
Some of the balls given away (rather than lost in tackles) were excellent passes, but direct to the opposition!

What is it? Fear (i.e. just get rid!), or maybe loss of confidence/concentration, or more 'decision making' crap, or is it more insidious than that.

Greenwood three times in the second half cut in from the right and at ranges between 30 to 40 yards, well outside the 18 yard box and tried to beat the Villa keeper, ending up shooting right at him. On a least two of these occasions, and well within his sight line, Bruno, Rashford, Cavani and even VDB were in prime scoring positions, but he still tried to score from that distance.

This is not the first time, or the second time, or even the third time Greenwood has done this, since he got back in the team, but its no longer about a young lad needing to gain experience, or to address his poor decision making, the lad is deliberately ignoring his better placed colleagues, that is what worries me.
I suspect one reason Rashford did not try to get to the rebound from the final one, was his disgust at Mason's actions.

Only at the death did Mason use his position to bemuse the defence to then try to slip Lingard in... but it was much too little, too late!

If talented youngsters like Greenwood can't, or won't, learn from playing alongside such as CR and Cavani, then Ralf has really got a mountain to climb.
 

Ixion

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A clean sheet but the ball was in our net twice....but yeah, all Maguire's fault
I mean there is no question the second goal is offside. You can't shit on the defense for a ball going in the net when they got in that position being offside.
 

Stig

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We also have the most selfish attackers of all time

This. They are horrible. I watch gob smacked that the ' best players in the world' can be so greedy. Simply not team players.
 

Stig

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Worst United team since Fergie left.

All the players hate Greenwood. Rashford looks like he doesn't want to be there. Donny is shit. Apart from being told to leave by RM and the money, why did Varane come? Awful, awful team.
What makes you say that ?
 

Red Dreams

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From the admittedly very little I've seen written about him he has been average in the Championship. I don't see him making any difference for us. He might run around some and show some strong passun, but we also had Daniel James doing that and it didn't exactly set the league on fire.
They are totally different players.
Garner can tackle and pass. And he will adapt to the high press game Ralf wants to play.
Anyway. We we will have him next season.
We still need to get a DM this window.
 

mitchmouse

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It’s actually becoming tough to watch us -- and I’ve been doing so for well over 50 years. People are blaming RR but he can’t just come in and perform miracles; what we can see is that Ole’s “plan” was all smoke and mirrors: we’ve been poor for a very long time with just the odd brilliant performance fooling some people into thinking we were “getting there”

Same way, some people on here were blaming Scotty for the world ending yesterday when he was by far our best player...

We have to get the permanent manager this time and he has to work hand-in-glove with RR as a sort of DoF, and the right man has to bring in top coaches
 

Nordmore

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I didn't have the time to watch the match so just finishing watching the full replays now. Tbh I find some comments after last match a bit surprising:

- Some still say we played with a 4222. No we played with a 4231.
- Many comments say we're terrible. Second half we looked a bit off pedal but tbh that first half imo was actually our best fooball for a while. We should have scored 3 goals in the first half alone and their best chance came from a horrible mistake from Lindelof. The intensity was good, passing was ok, pressing was ok. Miles better than the dross against Norwich, Newcastle, Wolves. At least I can say we deservedly won the last match. Which I couldn't say the same in the three previous matches, even if we managed to win.

Other than that imo Rashford should be benched for a while. Something is seriously wrong with him atm. One of his biggest strength was actually his mentality, if you remember his pen against PSG. Don't know what happened to the lad but it doesn't look right at all.

Varane should be MOTM, very solid didn't put a foot wrong.

I'm very happy that Ralf benched both Ronaldo and Maguire. The football was much better and it shows the board is behind backing him, there's still hope. Let's improve from this and we might have a chance at top 4 this season.
 

DSG

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It’s actually becoming tough to watch us -- and I’ve been doing so for well over 50 years. People are blaming RR but he can’t just come in and perform miracles; what we can see is that Ole’s “plan” was all smoke and mirrors: we’ve been poor for a very long time with just the odd brilliant performance fooling some people into thinking we were “getting there”

Same way, some people on here were blaming Scotty for the world ending yesterday when he was by far our best player...

We have to get the permanent manager this time and he has to work hand-in-glove with RR as a sort of DoF, and the right man has to bring in top coaches
Agree that watching this team is painful. We are really, really bad. I think the team hates each other too. Rashford sulking around the pitch, Greenwood never passing. They clearly hate the manager.

It’s funny because I used to love watching this team. Our Bruno-inspired run of games in 19-20 to 3rd and then last season until tailing off for 2nd.

I disagree that Ralf cannot be blamed. He can, and should be. He’s being paid a lot of money to revitalize the team and refresh the tactics. We can’t sell the entire squad. If Ole was the problem, how is Ralf not the problem? If the players are the problem, you still have to find a manager to light a fire under the players because you can’t turnover the entire squad in the January window.

‘It’s more likely that it’s both: the players are a problem AND Ralf is unsuitable as a manager, even interim. Intellectually, we need to be able to accept multiple reasons for our poor performances.
 

DSG

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I didn't have the time to watch the match so just finishing watching the full replays now. Tbh I find some comments after last match a bit surprising:

- Some still say we played with a 4222. No we played with a 4231.
- Many comments say we're terrible. Second half we looked a bit off pedal but tbh that first half imo was actually our best fooball for a while. We should have scored 3 goals in the first half alone and their best chance came from a horrible mistake from Lindelof. The intensity was good, passing was ok, pressing was ok. Miles better than the dross against Norwich, Newcastle, Wolves. At least I can say we deservedly won the last match. Which I couldn't say the same in the three previous matches, even if we managed to win.

Other than that imo Rashford should be benched for a while. Something is seriously wrong with him atm. One of his biggest strength was actually his mentality, if you remember his pen against PSG. Don't know what happened to the lad but it doesn't look right at all.

Varane should be MOTM, very solid didn't put a foot wrong.

I'm very happy that Ralf benched both Ronaldo and Maguire. The football was much better and it shows the board is behind backing him, there's still hope. Let's improve from this and we might have a chance at top 4 this season.
If you didn’t watch the full match, no need to post. The highlights didn’t give you an accurate picture of what was happening out there. We probably didn’t deserve to win.
 
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Couldn’t go last night (got Cv). But Was at the Villa game earlier in season and they dived, cheated, moaned, fouled, blocked (and ran their socks off t.b.f) their way to a 1-0 and a goal that should’ve been ruled out (however ‘soft’).

I know we played average (though not as bad as some match day thread comments would suggest) but having a goal ruled out for breaking rules doesn‘t mean we’re lucky, it means the officials followed the rules… rare I know but tough shit Villa.

And for anyone thinking their players positioning was pure chance…

 

Hughie77

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Having heard everything today online on radio etc, I thought we lost! It wasn't pretty by far , and it wasn't as bad as you think either if you look at the perspective of where UTD are at present. I thought we started very well then the sloppy balls poor passing was there again.
Then the last 7 mins of the 1st half we created great chances and should have gone in 2 up. 2nd half was Villa for 25 to 30 mins, and there goal was correctly chalked off, the changes were good, and From then on I thought we were OK didn't create but neither did they. Varane was great Lindelof was his ok but there's a mistake in him as always. Rashford was the poorest out of the bunch, Fred and Mctom were OK not great, and DDG made saves , but so did Martinez the other end. Overall it wasn't up to standard, plus points were the subs thought they stabilised and brought a bit more energy to the team. But were through to the next round .
 

Berbasbullet

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Couldn’t go last night (got Cv). But Was at the Villa game earlier in season and they dived, cheated, moaned, fouled, blocked (and ran their socks off t.b.f) their way to a 1-0 and a goal that should’ve been ruled out (however ‘soft’).

I know we played average (though not as bad as some match day thread comments would suggest) but having a goal ruled out for breaking rules doesn‘t mean we’re lucky, it means the officials followed the rules… rare I know but tough shit Villa.

And for anyone thinking their players positioning was pure chance…

I was at that one and they behaved like prize douches the entire game. Killed so much time it was infuriating.
 

sparx99

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For me this is a central question how can professional players make so many unforced errors?
Some of the balls given away (rather than lost in tackles) were excellent passes, but direct to the opposition!

What is it? Fear (i.e. just get rid!), or maybe loss of confidence/concentration, or more 'decision making' crap, or is it more insidious than that.

Greenwood three times in the second half cut in from the right and at ranges between 30 to 40 yards, well outside the 18 yard box and tried to beat the Villa keeper, ending up shooting right at him. On a least two of these occasions, and well within his sight line, Bruno, Rashford, Cavani and even VDB were in prime scoring positions, but he still tried to score from that distance.

This is not the first time, or the second time, or even the third time Greenwood has done this, since he got back in the team, but its no longer about a young lad needing to gain experience, or to address his poor decision making, the lad is deliberately ignoring his better placed colleagues, that is what worries me.
I suspect one reason Rashford did not try to get to the rebound from the final one, was his disgust at Mason's actions.

Only at the death did Mason use his position to bemuse the defence to then try to slip Lingard in... but it was much too little, too late!

If talented youngsters like Greenwood can't, or won't, learn from playing alongside such as CR and Cavani, then Ralf has really got a mountain to climb.
Yeah, I wondered if Mason not looking for Rashford at the end was because of the earlier non-cross from Rashford to Mason. My non-Utd supporting friends were messaging me 'Do those two not get on?'. It makes you wonder. But in general we have a very selfish front four. Greenwood, Bruno, Rashford and Ronaldo do not make selfless runs, they don't pass much to each other (Bruno does but still takes poor shots at times) and they all seem to be glory hunting.

Maybe its symptomatic of a team not creating much and they feel 'starved' of chances so they shoot once they get sight of goal? There was that video of Ole training players to shoot on sight basically. So maybe it is still an Ole hangover?

Either way, we need a couple more selfless attackers in the side.
 

hescoresgoals1899

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The biggest take away for me is we didnt lose yesterday, we won. It is extremely important to grind out results during periods of poor form and that's what we did yesterday. It was not pretty, it was not what we want to see from our club but it's a start and something wr can build upon.

I dont think this team will change overnight but we have to look for the positives in these games and a massive one is that United found a way to win. We will get through this and need to continue to get behind the boys. I found McTominay's performance yesterday to be an eye opener, kid showed leadership and a side of him i had not seen. Varane not flawless but much improved. Good to see Elanga, Lingard and DVDB get a run out. We're finally using our squad.

A key part of the MUFC culture is to never give up and be united no matter what. When the going gets tough we knuckle down and work together, united, us against the world.

Always look on the bright side of live. UNITED! UNITED! UNITED!

Let's not become Arsenal fans please, we re better than this. Let's get behind the lads and the coach.
 

Nordmore

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If you didn’t watch the full match, no need to post. The highlights didn’t give you an accurate picture of what was happening out there. We probably didn’t deserve to win.
I watched the full replays. No need to reply if you didn't read a post carefully enough.
 

copen1945

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The starting eleven were as strong as United could possibly field. Only exception was Ronaldo. It wasn't encouraging that they could not even hold possession competently. Ralf really need to get back to the fundamental things and to impart some basic principles on our players.
 

cyberman

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Here’s one. Doesn’t the fact Watkins goes for the ball mean Ings is offside even if he touches the ball or not? Isn’t it attempt to to play the ball and not actually contacting it?
So if he attempts to play the ball then Ings becomes offside because he affects DDG attempts to gather the ball?
 

Hugh Jass

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At least there was a banner in the stadium last night. That was probably the best thing about the whole match.
 

peridigm

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Couldn’t go last night (got Cv). But Was at the Villa game earlier in season and they dived, cheated, moaned, fouled, blocked (and ran their socks off t.b.f) their way to a 1-0 and a goal that should’ve been ruled out (however ‘soft’).

I know we played average (though not as bad as some match day thread comments would suggest) but having a goal ruled out for breaking rules doesn‘t mean we’re lucky, it means the officials followed the rules… rare I know but tough shit Villa.

And for anyone thinking their players positioning was pure chance…

Something I've often wondered is why teams don't offside trap on set pieces? I've never played anything organized so excuse my ignorance if this is a stupid idea that never works but supposed you have a defensive line that steps forward just before the kicker touches the ball essentially leaving almost everyone that would come in contact with the ball offside. Is this a thing now and I just don't see it or is it just a dumb idea that never works?
 
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Something I've often wondered is why teams don't offside trap on set pieces? I've never played anything organized so excuse my ignorance if this is a stupid idea that never works but supposed you have a defensive line that steps forward just before the kicker touches the ball essentially leaving almost everyone that would come in contact with the ball offside. Is this a thing now and I just don't see it or is it just a dumb idea that never works?
Tough as needs a very disciplined and together line. Milan and Arsenal in the 80s did it well (having a familiar/regular back four probably helped).

Danger is a deeper runner beats the trap and you're fecked.

It'd be interesting to see how no offside worked as an experiment some time.. like Van Basten suggested. Not sure how it would pan out (though think eventually it'd be very similar to how game is now) but would be one less interruption in the game
 

Litch

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Oh the irony, with all that talent on the pitch, the best bit of quality was from the 2 players people think are not utd quality.....
 

Comet49

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I thought we were disappointing and were a bit lucky to win. What surprised me most was the time added on only being 6 mins, the usual is at least 3 mins. The VAR on the first took about 3 min 20 secs, then there was the player who was bleeding. I watched the match in a club and the feeling was a minimum of 8 mins, chuffed that we won though.
 

Player Ratings

5.3 Total Average Rating

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Compiled from 289 ratings.

Score Predictions

121,67,24
  • Man Utd win
  • Aston Villa win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 23% Man Utd 2:1 Aston Villa
  • 12% Man Utd 1:2 Aston Villa
  • 12% Man Utd 0:2 Aston Villa
  • 11% Man Utd 2:0 Aston Villa
  • 9% Man Utd 1:0 Aston Villa
  • 8% Man Utd 1:1 Aston Villa
  • 6% Man Utd 3:1 Aston Villa
  • 4% Man Utd 0:1 Aston Villa
  • 2% Man Utd 3:0 Aston Villa
  • 2% Man Utd 0:0 Aston Villa
  • 2% Man Utd 3:2 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 1:3 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 5:0 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 5:1 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 0:5 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 4:1 Aston Villa
  • 1% Man Utd 2:2 Aston Villa
  • 0% Man Utd 0:4 Aston Villa
  • 0% Man Utd 4:0 Aston Villa
  • 0% Man Utd 4:2 Aston Villa
  • 0% Man Utd 2:3 Aston Villa
Compiled from 212 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Aston Villa
Possession
43% 57%
Shots
7 4
Shots on Target
5 2
Corners
6 6
Fouls
8 1