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Aston Villa 2:2 Manchester United

Post-match discussion


Sat, 15 January 2022

copen1945

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That was disheartening. I thought we were past these defensive collapses since Ralf had come in. Strangely enough, with the game in hand, we are still in the race for the fourth place for Champions League.

Ralf needs to assert control over the players. He also needs to develop tactics to gain control of midfield during a match. It is frustrating to watch United losing midfield battles to the midtable teams and the teams of the lower half of the table.
 

Mick1991

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Lacked athleticism in the middle today, bypassed too easily at times. No mean streak.
 

Barnslig

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We are so unbelievably shit it's crazy. How are we incapable of sniffing out danger, and shutting down a game, like many, many other top sides? We're 2-0 up, and we just let them waltz back into the tie.

We're so soft, never really going for challenges. Bruno at the tailend of the first half, jumping out of the way while a Villa player just picks up the ball, and gets out from their half.
Have we had one game this season where both halves of football were good? I can't remember one, either absolutely shocking in the first and decent in the second, or absolutely shocking in both halves.

I don't know how to fix this, seems to be something foundationally wrong with every single player in our squad. I swear to god if one of these cnuts come out after the game saying something along the lines of "we need to improve" I will be absolutely fuming.

Not to get me started on the refeering in our games vs. Villa, they are such fecking divers and play actors, and the ref falls for it every single time, while we're getting absolutely nothing. Their worst offender in McGinn were out for this one, but Mings, Konsa, Cash, Watkins, Buendia all faffing about on the ground for absolutely minimal contact, only for them to turn around and give our players and the ref shit when he gives us a freekick after they've kicked us off the field, without getting a yellow, of course - if you want to go down like a little crybaby, shut the feck up when the other team does the same, you cretins. I'm assuming this is the Slippy G effect? Turning his players into what he once was - the largest of cnuts.

I'm fuming Coutinho got anything from that game as well, can't read any sports news for a week now, Liverpool reject has a good game - watch the media jerk themselves silly.

Thank feck we're done with Villa and Wolves for this season, I don't know if my heart could take it.

EDIT: I don't know why I wake up at ungodly hours to watch this shit anymore. It's literally turning into the shittest part of my week.
 

Red_toad

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For the love of god sign a competent CM
Agree, had we had a decent defensive holding option to sub on we’d have won that game. 2 keepers and zero players who can hold the midfield. Wonder if we can get O’Shea back on the books.
 

Barnslig

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Agree, had we had a decent defensive holding option to sub on we’d have won that game. 2 keepers and zero players who can hold the midfield. Wonder if we can get O’Shea back on the books.
If Rangnick doesn't want to sign anyone, in fear or whatever else, they might not suit the coming manager, I can understand that, but it's simply unforgiveable from the footballing structure above the manager to let this go on like this, it's a clear and obvious gaping hole in our squad, and the fact that the people in charge of this club can't, won't or refuses to see this is simply, in my opinion, grounds to get rid. Murtough (sp?) coming in to take over from Ed, to be our footballing guy upstairs - get to fecking work already. January is almost over and every man, woman and dog around the continent can see we desperately need a DM.

Also, super pleased to see Rashford relegated to staying at home after his disastrous time as of late, needs to clear his head and re-learn why he was in love with football in the first place, Elanga was way better today than Rashford has been for a long time, sadly we faded in the second half.
 

Bastian

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Better first 30 minutes than against Palace.
Looked like there were no passenger today.
Matic is finished, unfortunately.
We of course should have seen out the game, and the way Mings was allowed to dribble through the defense for their first was criminal.

Such a shame.
 

Isotope

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The result makes it harder to hit Rooney's aim for first.
 

Ace

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My love for this club is currently less than my hate for seeing Fred in the lineup. An astonishment of a Manchester United midfielder.
 

NICanRed

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Agree, had we had a decent defensive holding option to sub on we’d have won that game. 2 keepers and zero players who can hold the midfield. Wonder if we can get O’Shea back on the books.
A reminder! Two years ago the Caf was holding a poll. "Which positions do we need to strengthen?" The overwhelming winner was RW (in particular - Sancho) Second choice was a CB. A distant third was CM.
The Caf seems to have suddenly revised its position - or maybe they just forgot.
 

FrankDrebin

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I thought we were brilliant in the first half, and I like the type of football we tried to play for both halves. Attacking football and in control. It's a shame about the result, but the football, specially in the first half was very good.
I think calling our first half performance 'brilliant' is being alittle too kind. We were good ,especially compared to our previous performances, but there were still apparent issues on show.
 

RazorOz

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Saying we good for the first half is a stretch. We were decent for about 25 minutes, Villa were totally dominant at the end of the first half, and proceeded to dominate the second half. We barely created a thing all game, both our goals were horrendous mistakes from Villa, especially the first goal which was basically gift wrapped. We would have been lucky to win, given over 90 minutes Villa were the better side.
 

Cantonagotmehere

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We are so unbelievably shit it's crazy. How are we incapable of sniffing out danger, and shutting down a game, like many, many other top sides? We're 2-0 up, and we just let them waltz back into the tie.

We're so soft, never really going for challenges. Bruno at the tailend of the first half, jumping out of the way while a Villa player just picks up the ball, and gets out from their half.
Have we had one game this season where both halves of football were good? I can't remember one, either absolutely shocking in the first and decent in the second, or absolutely shocking in both halves.

I don't know how to fix this, seems to be something foundationally wrong with every single player in our squad. I swear to god if one of these cnuts come out after the game saying something along the lines of "we need to improve" I will be absolutely fuming.

Not to get me started on the refeering in our games vs. Villa, they are such fecking divers and play actors, and the ref falls for it every single time, while we're getting absolutely nothing. Their worst offender in McGinn were out for this one, but Mings, Konsa, Cash, Watkins, Buendia all faffing about on the ground for absolutely minimal contact, only for them to turn around and give our players and the ref shit when he gives us a freekick after they've kicked us off the field, without getting a yellow, of course - if you want to go down like a little crybaby, shut the feck up when the other team does the same, you cretins. I'm assuming this is the Slippy G effect? Turning his players into what he once was - the largest of cnuts.

I'm fuming Coutinho got anything from that game as well, can't read any sports news for a week now, Liverpool reject has a good game - watch the media jerk themselves silly.

Thank feck we're done with Villa and Wolves for this season, I don't know if my heart could take it.

EDIT: I don't know why I wake up at ungodly hours to watch this shit anymore. It's literally turning into the shittest part of my week.
Can't argue with you mate. Totally agree about Villa, dive and whinge like mid table Spanish club.
 

UTD_Since_1978

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Villa Park 19-08-1995 AV 3-1 UTD - Alan Hansen says, "You can't win anything with kids"

Villa Park 15-01-2022 AV 2-2 UTD - Alan Hansen would probably say, "You can't win anything with this shower of shite"
 

Marcus

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We were begging for a fresh set of legs from 50 minutes. Being constantly overrun and the second goal was not a reflection of how the game was going.

I have no idea why Ralf made no subs to the midfield until the bloody 88th minute.

Absolutely atrocious.
My thoughts exactly. If you want your team to play with high energy, you have to sub out the tired players much earlier. Sigh. We would have won I think.
 

bdspeedy

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WTF did this have to do with our owners?

Some people :eek:
6+ managers and years of shit football. Managers and players have come and gone but the rot starts from the top. The common thread is the bankers who are bleeding this team into mediocrity. Continue to suck them off as long as you wish. We'll be better off when we are owned by people who have A CLUE and give A FECK about football and aren't using the team as an ATM.
 

pratyush_utd

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We actually played some decent football in first half. We had proper shape for first 30 min and then under pressure we resorted back to old ways. This will take time to implement but we simply dont have time due to position we have found ourselves in.

It was quite disappointing to see us concede but i think Rangnick hands are tied behind his back. He simply doesn’t have a midfield to implement any system. No manager can with that midfield. If board doesn’t approve signings this window then missing out on top 4 is on them. They left it too late to sack Ole and now wont fix obvious issues.
 

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I cannot understand why he left Matic on when he was clearly dead on his feet. I know he wanted a dm on, but Matic couldn't move. And it cost us.
 

Daengophile

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Inferior (support/revenue) clubs seem to do more with less

Somehow we contrive to do less with more
 

Beans

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I've really no idea what on earth is going on with this team. Our opening 30 minutes was the best we've played in months. Our press was coordinated and when we didn't press we defended with a tight shape which Villa found hard to bypass. Also, we did well in winning the ball back and quickly countering. The final pass was poor too often, but the intent was encouraging.

But then our energy level dropped and we never regained it. You can't expect to press for a full 90 minutes, but our defensive shape, which was so tight for half an hour, went to shit after that and we never recovered.

Changes should have been made in midfield as Matic was obviously gassed after 50 minutes, but other than that I'm at a loss as to what else should have been done. We were fine and then just turned to shit.
Plenty of teams press for 90 minutes. But we haven't been, and we're not fit enough to do it. That's it, we're just not physically capable. We need new players.
 

captain666

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Such a disappointing result after a great start to the game,all of a sudden someone flicks a switch and we immediately become shite again!
Some incoming midfielders urgently required!
 

Highfather_24

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I cannot understand why he left Matic on when he was clearly dead on his feet. I know he wanted a dm on, but Matic couldn't move. And it cost us.
Because Matic is our only DM. Neither McT, Fred or VdB are DMs, and suck at that role.

Our late substitutions killed the game. The players looked drained post 60th minute.
 

PaulRich

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There were positives about this game but its the same glaring midfield and game management issues time and time again. Why wait until the 88th minute to freshen something up that wasn't working from about the 60 minute mark??
 

FrankWhite

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That was a Villa team Mcginn that did that to us. You know Mcginn, the guy that makes Scotland put Mctominay in defence. This team is a long way from good.
 

tjb

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I cannot understand why he left Matic on when he was clearly dead on his feet. I know he wanted a dm on, but Matic couldn't move. And it cost us.
Truth...we don't have anyone else with the capability to play that role. Donny cannot play that role. That's the real cost we face in every game we play with a holding midfielder at the moment. We don't have players capable of playing that holding role due to them not being able to even perform basic defensive midfield responsibilities. Ole tried endlessly with Mctominay and Fred to see if they could play that role and it has cost us for years. Matic is too old. In 2019, he could only give around 60 minutes of solid play, its 2022, his legs are completely shot and it showed. However, due to lack of options, he's still our only feasible option if we want to play a 3 man midfield.

The positive today was that the three man midfield functioned when everyone was still fresh. the 4141 we used actually worked, both in attack and in dealing with counters. Unfortunately, we don't actually have the current personnel in midfield to make it work effectively for long. It's the same as what happened with Ole during project restart, he had finally built a system that worked, but Matic getting older, lack of depth in the role and Pogba's injuries completely destroyed that platform we had built. One thing is clear for me, Ole as a manager may have been a bit too lax and friendly with some of the players, but it wasn't his tactics that hurt us, it was the lack of midfield investment more than anything, and I think people are starting to finally realize how big of a hinderance this is to our team. It doesn't matter how many Sancho's or Ronaldo's you get in attack or the Varane's in defence, if you don't have a capable midfield, it will always be a struggle to build up play, hold possession, win back possession or defend against the counter consistently. That's what we have been facing for the past 8 or so seasons and we still haven't fixed it.
 

fergiewherearethou

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I think the intensity was there at least for some parts, first 30 minutes, then after minute 60 but we have failed to win a game where we were better than in most games this season and were gifted 2 goals by the opponent.

If we will manage to keep the intensity for 90 minutes, move the ball faster, make runs in attack and press harder in midfield than we have a change to win some games.

It was certainly a better game than at OT against them so Rangnick must be doing something right.
 

Telsim

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We need ~2 points per game to qualify for the CL. This game counts as a loss in my books. This loss is on Rangnick and the midfield (or lack thereof). I still stand behind the coach. The players on the other hand...

Fred was abysmal. I honestly can't tell if he is given the wrong instructions or just doesn't have it in him to execute them properly. Sometimes he is great, other times he is just so poor. Matic is a primordial. He is good for 25 minutes, intercepted the ball a couple of times, but that's it. He just can't run. How he got to play for 94 minutes today is beyond me. I don't understand Rangnick's obsession with this guy.

The subs were very questionable. Why do Van de Beek and Lingard come 5 minutes before the end? Why was Elanga taken off so early?

Some other players carry some blame, like Sancho and Greenwood, but the midfield is the source of all evil in this team. Our defense is often left completely exposed. Our forwards are left to fend for themselves. We can't keep the ball for 5 seconds. Without a proper midfield you just can't execute a plan.

The only positive today is I was spared from having to watch Rashford's despondent attitude and dribbling into 3 people.
 

Nordmore

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Truth...we don't have anyone else with the capability to play that role. Donny cannot play that role. That's the real cost we face in every game we play with a holding midfielder at the moment. We don't have players capable of playing that holding role due to them not being able to even perform basic defensive midfield responsibilities. Ole tried endlessly with Mctominay and Fred to see if they could play that role and it has cost us for years. Matic is too old. In 2019, he could only give around 60 minutes of solid play, its 2022, his legs are completely shot and it showed. However, due to lack of options, he's still our only feasible option if we want to play a 3 man midfield.

The positive today was that the three man midfield functioned when everyone was still fresh. the 4141 we used actually worked, both in attack and in dealing with counters. Unfortunately, we don't actually have the current personnel in midfield to make it work effectively for long. It's the same as what happened with Ole during project restart, he had finally built a system that worked, but Matic getting older, lack of depth in the role and Pogba's injuries completely destroyed that platform we had built. One thing is clear for me, Ole as a manager may have been a bit too lax and friendly with some of the players, but it wasn't his tactics that hurt us, it was the lack of midfield investment more than anything, and I think people are starting to finally realize how big of a hinderance this is to our team. It doesn't matter how many Sancho's or Ronaldo's you get in attack or the Varane's in defence, if you don't have a capable midfield, it will always be a struggle to build up play, hold possession, win back possession or defend against the counter consistently. That's what we have been facing for the past 8 or so seasons and we still haven't fixed it.
Very good post. Agreed completely with you.

Quite what Zidane quipped years ago "Why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you are losing the entire engine?"
 

Mark Witter

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Absolute disgrace. 54 days since Ole was fired and nothing has changed. Crazy substitution strategy.

Matic should never play for us again.
Agree we have tried every combo in midfield and still can’t get it right give VDB a good run try him with Mctominay if it fails where no worse off than we are now
 

GueRed

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First half good collectively with and without the ball.

Second half all over the place. Terrible defending for their goals
 

Buster15

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I am not wanting to make excuses, I thought we played much better today than we have in a long time. I just think Villa played well, and we do not have the midfield to compete.
Agree with you in the first half, it was a pretty good performance.
But we seemed to run out of steam toward the end of the first half. And in the second half, we seemed to have nothing in midfield.
 

mitchmouse

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While we can't say it was "brilliant", the first 25 minutes was our best performance in months (not saying too much, I guess) but after that it was back to losing control of a game. We never really got Cavani in the game but I thought Matic and Elanga had good games and greenwood his best for a while (again not saying much).

As for the Villa comeback, again I have to say, I'm yet to be convinced by Varane but feel Dalot and Telles are ou best fullbacks right now
 

UpWithRivers

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Im sorry but Rangnick has to take the blame for this one. Yeah they players are sht and there are a million excuses but Villa were all over us second half and he did nothing. Dalot was overrun. Bring on WB. The midfield was overrun - bring on DVB for Cavani and play with 2 up top. Do something. Shut it down.

He knew what he was getting into with this game. We played them on Monday for fks sake. Yeah we played ok in parts but at the end of the day it didnt work for 90 minutes.

Also was it just me or did he swap Fred and Bruno? Fred was so high up the pitch a lot of the game and Bruno much deeper.
 

Ixion

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Has Ralf said anything about the performance and why he left the subs so late? I switched over at full-time.
I believe he said in retrospect he would have changed the formation to sure things up which he was thinking about but didn't do.

All in all I'm not too disappointed, we played well and I think deserved the 2-0 lead, we just lacked that game management to see it out. Hopefully the players and Ralf learned something.

Up to their first goal I really enjoyed watching the game which is a novelty this season. Shame we'll probably change half the XI next game.
 
Last edited:

VanDeBank

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I liked the performance. It showed that we're trying to adapt a new style. It's been ages since I saw us do a well executed press. I don't care about the result as much. It's a bumpy road. Get used to it.

Player's just need to get fitter (or be replaced by those who are). Once the team is better drilled we'll stop seeing such a massive dropoff in performance during the game.

Playing Matic for the full 90 was obviously a dumb move but Ralf got away with it last time.
 

Man of the Match

Bruno Fernandes image Bruno Fernandes 43% of 239 votes

Runners-up

Player Ratings

5.4 Total Average Rating

Highest Rated Player

Lowest Rated Player

Compiled from 253 ratings.

Score Predictions

93,77,38
  • Man Utd win
  • Aston Villa win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 19% Aston Villa 1:2 Man Utd
  • 13% Aston Villa 1:1 Man Utd
  • 12% Aston Villa 2:1 Man Utd
  • 12% Aston Villa 2:0 Man Utd
  • 7% Aston Villa 0:2 Man Utd
  • 6% Aston Villa 0:1 Man Utd
  • 6% Aston Villa 1:3 Man Utd
  • 6% Aston Villa 3:0 Man Utd
  • 5% Aston Villa 3:1 Man Utd
  • 4% Aston Villa 2:2 Man Utd
  • 2% Aston Villa 0:0 Man Utd
  • 2% Aston Villa 0:3 Man Utd
  • 2% Aston Villa 1:0 Man Utd
  • 1% Aston Villa 0:4 Man Utd
  • 1% Aston Villa 0:5 Man Utd
  • 0% Aston Villa 4:0 Man Utd
  • 0% Aston Villa 4:2 Man Utd
  • 0% Aston Villa 2:3 Man Utd
  • 0% Aston Villa 2:4 Man Utd
  • 0% Aston Villa 1:4 Man Utd
  • 0% Aston Villa 2:5 Man Utd
  • 0% Aston Villa 1:5 Man Utd
Compiled from 208 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Aston Villa
  2. Man Utd
Possession
55% 45%
Shots
13 13
Shots on Target
9 6
Corners
3 6
Fouls
8 13

Referee

David Coote