[NZT-One]

Quote:
"The manager surely deserves to be criticized but he shouldn't take the blow for the team"

Technically you're correct. It's the players who allow the opposition to win the ball. It's the players who misplace passes. It's the players who don't block the shots or make the saves. It's the players who miss chances. And of course the manager shouldn't take any of the blame. Even if he played 11 outfield players and no goalkeeper, it would still be the players fault. The manager doesn't kick the ball, and he's not on the pitch. So why should he take the blame?
And that is also the reason why there's been only 9 wins and 17 defeats in 33 league games.
Does that explain your logic correctly?

No it doesn't. Do you think I missed the atrocious record we have had? I well aware of that and as I said - the manager should be held accountable. But there are a lot of players who shouldn't be here anymore and to me personally, it feels very very wrong to get rid of the manager (I am not particularly invested in him - only reason I defend him is because I think switching once again without a good plan is just prolonging the misery) but not axe a few players as well.

The Collins foul was such a clear red that Dawson should be demoted. How that is not the denial of a goal scoring opportunity is bonkers. And you just knew Bruno would feck things up.

Commentator said, that PL came out saying that Mbeumo didn't really have the ball under control and thats why they ruled this way. Seems fair to me. I could see it handled differently and wouldn't make too much of a fuss out of it but I don't think, this is serious injustice.

 

[Waynne]

Their 2nd goal we had 4 defenders against 2 attackers and they still managed to score.

I'm tired boss. I'm just fecking tired.

 

[NewGlory]

Dorgue and Bruno would have been unfit for purpose as wingbacks. Bruno especially just doesn’t work in this role. Would Bruno be an upgrade over Dalot? Possibly, but we can’t discount the possibility that he would be a massive downgrade either as he just would not have been happy remaining out wide.

I agree. I just meant yesterday's game, not Bruno as wingback permanently. Bruno should be playing as #10 or not at all. Honestly he should have been sold. But in yesterday's game, even he would have been an upgrade over Dalot because Dalot can neither defend nor attack and at least Bruno can attack. That was the only point

 

[Hester_manc]

Red card given in the match between Napoli and Milan for 100% the same situation we had against Brentford.

 

[Sandikan]

You can lose away games in the prem if you're not at it.

The more worrying thing is we're making these losses against Brentford, Brighton and their ilk regular occurrences now.

 

[Salfordlad70]

When was the last time you won two games in the PL in a row?

The Jurassic period

 

[lex talionis]

I agree. I just meant yesterday's game, not Bruno as wingback permanently. Bruno should be playing as #10 or not at all. Honestly he should have been sold. But in yesterday's game, even he would have been an upgrade over Dalot because Dalot can neither defend nor attack and at least Bruno can attack. That was the only point

Got it. Thanks!

 

[USREDEVIL]

These arent the good times right? Just checking

 

[Ayoba]

You can lose away games in the prem if you're not at it.

The more worrying thing is we're making these losses against Brentford, Brighton and their ilk regular occurrences now.

And its not like the teams have to try hard at all. Just a small tactical switch is enough to beat Amorim's system. Fulham moved Iwobi to the middle, we struggled. Against Brentford, they went long to bypass our midfield and high line defense. Simple things, yet Amorim cant figure out why or what to change, except for rotating players in this stupid, rigid system.

 

[redmanx]

After the humiliating defeat by Grimsby some people, too many people, were it seemed trying to claim the match should be replayed because Grimsby fielded a player who hadn't been properly authourized; well, if that player had been Ronaldo or Messi in their pomp then, maybe, there might have been an argument worth having, but the stark, reality was that United should never have lost to a team 3 tiers below them. And now there are people trying to convince themselves that if, against Brentford, the referee had given us a penalty the result might have been different. It wouldn't have been. Brentford were 2 up in 20 minutes and were never really put under any real pressure. Stark reality chaps...we were not and are not good enough. Harry Maguire is a shell of the player he once was, and has been for years; Luke Shaw has been dire for even longer, when, that is, he could even be bothered to get off the treatment table to play; Dalot can be good going forward and has his moments as a defender, but not nearly enough, and to cap it all we buy a new keeper to replace Onana but then keep him on the bench! Is Senne Lammens fit enough to play or not? Is he even good enough to play? And if the answer to either question is "No" why did we buy him? Wasn't Jim Ratcliffe going to change our broken transfer policy and cut out waste?
Manchester United, on and off the field, are a shambles and have been for over 10 years despite trying 7 different managers, various "Directors of Football" and other positions since SAF retired and spending countless millions on transfers and wages. People say United are "too big" to go down....once we were, but not any longer...if things don't change radically, and soon, relegation from the Premiership could very well become another stark reality.

 

[Crimson King]

Red card given in the match between Napoli and Milan for 100% the same situation we had against Brentford.

Because it was a clear DOGSO and so a red card. They completely bottled it

 

[Passitlikescholes]

Just wanted to add a little bit here.

Was during the 2nd half, Cunha had the ball, put on a bit of acceleration, passed it (expecting a one two), only for the player who recieved it (can't remember who it was) to slow the play down and play a risk averse pass backwards, with Cunha having the shits afterwards.

We can't put some pace and risk into our play because we've got cowards, who only attempt forward passes, when theres acres of room and they're out of other options

 

[ryansgirl]

Shaw is one of the worst joggers in the squad for years, doesn't deserve to still be around.

Heaven`s knows why he is, I was delighted when he was signed but he lost me when the chips were down and he wouldn`t just put his head down and try to make things different.

Being disrespectful about the club publicly online should have been rewarded with a `You`re not a required player, you`ll go elsewhere` but no action taken was symptomatic of just one of the problems with management since Sir Alex left.

 

[ryansgirl]

Because it was a clear DOGSO and so a red card. They completely bottled it

The refs were clearly wrong but the fact is while football is sometimes a game of lucky breaks, our team shouldn`t be focusing on wrong decisions instead of how to play as one and do what other clubs that spent way, way less are doing and winning games.

 

[grahamo]

How is everyone feeling this morning after that shambles of a weekend? Why are there are just no consequences for these terrible performances. Players being picked again and again after terrible games. If they're not up for it give somebody else a go. Get Bruno off penalties, give somebody else a go. Meanwhile, the manager is cowering in the dugout with his head in his hands, He obviously didn't realise just how big a club He was taking over, that isn't what Man United managers do. He's way out of his depth. This is Man United. We shouldn't be losing to Brentford.

 

[Craig Ward]

The summer transfer window was an absolute disaster, and each defeat it's becoming more and more evident.

Signing Cunha, Mbeumo & Sesko on paper is fantastic business. Cannot really fault as they are all quality players

BUT.....we still do not have a team capable of playing the way Amorin wants. And Amorin is going to play the way he wants regardless whether it's working or not.

Amorin needs fast paced defenders, capable of stepping into midfield with excellent passing ability.
Players who can do this:
Martinez
Yoro
Players who can't:
De Ligt
Maguire
Maz
Shaw

2 out of 6 who can play the way Amorin wants. Not ideal

Wingbacks > A key area of Amorin's vision. Have to have immense stamina, be good in attack and defence. Hug the touchline, link play with the central #10 and have good crossing ability.
Players who can do this:
Dorgu
Player's who can't:
Amad
Maz
Dalot
Mbeumo
Mount
Shaw

And we all know the CM area is a disaster. Casemiro can't run, Ugarte hasn't worked out as we would have liked, Mainoo seems to be completely out of favour and the Fernandes playing deep has so many flaws yet he's got Amorin's complete trust.

On paper we have a good squad. On paper the recruitment is good.

We have an abundance of playmakers, stacked for the type of 10's Amorin wants, but we have ZERO style of play that caters to these players. Our defence and midfield are so disjointed and erratic it's leaves us chasing shadows. We play a very specific formation, yet we have zero identity. I don't see any passaged of play that gives me hope, I don't see any connections being formed.

I just see players out of position, looking around for leadership and caught between going one way or another. I see us reacting to danger instead of anticipating it

I see a bunch of players trying, but failing. I'm just waiting for someone to make an individual error that costs us a goal. It happens every single game. Without fail. We do not do the basics well enough - slow boring sideways passes, Bruno lumping it 50yards into touch, Casemiro sliding around with zero chance of winning the ball. Can Dalot only pass the ball to bruno? Is he incapable of doing anything else?

We don't play with any cohesion back to front. The CM area really kills us cos Bruno wanta to be higher, or drifting around trying to do everything. We don't have a CM that wants the ball and can turn on it and make progressive passes (well we do, Mainoo but he is 4th choice) - I think this kills us. Every elite team has midfielders who can use the ball confidently. Even teams like Palace, Brighton have midfielders who can get on the ball and dictate play. We don't. From every CB we have to every CM combo - we never look like we are confident with the ball. We don't look like we can handle on form of press or pressure.

We'd score more goals if we signed a CB and a CM, played Bruno as a 10 and kept Hojlund. Used the Sesko money elsewhere. Mainoo has to get more game time too. Style of play does not work with these players. Bruno deep, slow defenders, relying on Dalot for attacking outlet. We're just committing suicide by insisting we play these players in the positions we are

 

[RedRocket9908]

Commentator said, that PL came out saying that Mbeumo didn't really have the ball under control and thats why they ruled this way. Seems fair to me. I could see it handled differently and wouldn't make too much of a fuss out of it but I don't think, this is serious injustice.

There is nothing in the rules that says the attacker has to have the ball under control for it to be a red card, it was clear denial of a goalscoring opportunity without attempt to play the ball so is 100% a straight red card

 

[mjstokes85]

How is everyone feeling this morning after that shambles of a weekend? Why are there are just no consequences for these terrible performances. Players being picked again and again after terrible games. If they're not up for it give somebody else a go. Get Bruno off penalties, give somebody else a go. Meanwhile, the manager is cowering in the dugout with his head in his hands, He obviously didn't realise just how big a club He was taking over, that isn't what Man United managers do. He's way out of his depth. This is Man United. We shouldn't be losing to Brentford.

WIth regards to the game I am just kind of numb to it now as I expect defeat in most of these types of games.

 

[NZT-One]

There is nothing in the rules that says the attacker has to have the ball under control for it to be a red card, it was clear denial of a goalscoring opportunity without attempt to play the ball so is 100% a straight red card

Its not my statement, its the PL's. If you think, they got it wrong, inform them.

 

[erikcred]

Commentator said, that PL came out saying that Mbeumo didn't really have the ball under control and thats why they ruled this way. Seems fair to me. I could see it handled differently and wouldn't make too much of a fuss out of it but I don't think, this is serious injustice.

Eh? The last defender can also just trip up a forward who's about to latch on to a through ball as long as he's not yet gained control of the ball?

The refs came out with some garbage and you somehow convinced yourself it's legit.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Its not my statement, its the PL's. If you think, they got it wrong, inform them.

Im pretty sure they already know, you know the officials got it badly wrong when even Dermot Gallagher disagrees with them

 

[Poborsky's hair]

Eh? The last defender can also just trip up a forward who's about to latch on to a through ball as long as he's not yet gained control of the ball?

The refs came out with some garbage and you somehow convinced yourself it's legit.

Yeah, the best league in the world with The worst referees around. I dont understand how much money there is that FA cant develop some good referees. It really is a travesty.

At the sam time dont have the power to convince referees some of the decisions, it's the contrary now, it's as if they feel excited about making some decisions which lead to online enrage, clickbaits and overal more United bashing with foreign manager to show him and put him into his place. Same psychology like going after some players like Casemiro. You have no power here, this is premier league..

We are in this cycle when we need a bit more luck but dont get it and need to work ever so hard despite that. It's small margins sometimes, but the statistics show we should have way more goals and points, which in the long-term will show even if Amorim is still here. He should be given at least 6-10 games to eliminate this statistical deviation. But after 6 games after tough fixtures and some unluck, it's to early to call for his head. Unless it's going totally downhill we should still back him. It's not like there is a world class manager we can get to replace him and deliver much better results.

 

[NZT-One]

Yeah, the best league in the world with The worst referees around. I dont understand how much money there is that FA cant develop some good referees. It really is a travesty.

At the sam time dont have the power to convince referees some of the decisions, it's the contrary now, it's as if they feel excited about making some decisions which lead to online enrage, clickbaits and overal more United bashing with foreign manager to show him and put him into his place. Same psychology like going after some players like Casemiro. You have no power here, this is premier league..

We are in this cycle when we need a bit more luck but dont get it and need to work ever so hard despite that. It's small margins sometimes, but the statistics show we should have way more goals and points, which in the long-term will show even if Amorim is still here. He should be given at least 6-10 games to eliminate this statistical deviation. But after 6 games after tough fixtures and some unluck, it's to early to call for his head. Unless it's going totally downhill we should still back him. It's not like there is a world class manager we can get to replace him and deliver much better results.

This sounds like something straight out of RAWK...

I am not an expert of the ruling. From my understanding, a clear goal scoring opportunity requires control to a certain degree. And if they didn't see that with Mbeumo, I don't see a huge issue with it. If others come to different conclusion, thats fine of course, but falling towards some hidden agendas? I personally think that we laughed at RAWK for a reason... It isn't as if we usually play well only to be robbed by injustice.

 

[lex talionis]

Can someone point me to the language of the rules that stipulates that the attacking player must have the ball "under control" in order for a foul that denies a clear goal scoring opportunity to be punished with a straight sending off.

Thanks!

 

[Poborsky's hair]

This sounds like something straight out of RAWK...

I am not an expert of the ruling. From my understanding, a clear goal scoring opportunity requires control to a certain degree. And if they didn't see that with Mbeumo, I don't see a huge issue with it. If others come to different conclusion, thats fine of course, but falling towards some hidden agendas? I personally think that we laughed at RAWK for a reason... It isn't as if we usually play well only to be robbed by injustice.

haha, just play the clip again. If the pass is coming and he's about to hit it first time, how can he be in control of the ball? He just missed it by foot length, easily reachable, if he wasnt dragged back. It's a terrible decision, which should be red, only defended by complete pricks from FA to save their face.

And I am not the one complaining about referees usually. We should play better to get into position where we dont need to roll dice on referees inept and inconsistent decision making to help us. The truth is in the first 6 games we were hardly in favour of them. 6 Games is a small sample, this might even out, especially when we play at home and put much more pressure on the ref by nature.

What are people not even mentioning is a clear faul/push on Cunha before their first goal, same thing which happened on the other side and was blown as faul. Small margins and it's a different game. We are not a well oiled machine yet to get a result despite that sometimes.

 

[pelterz]

No it doesn't. Do you think I missed the atrocious record we have had? I well aware of that and as I said - the manager should be held accountable. But there are a lot of players who shouldn't be here anymore and to me personally, it feels very very wrong to get rid of the manager (I am not particularly invested in him - only reason I defend him is because I think switching once again without a good plan is just prolonging the misery) but not axe a few players as well.


Commentator said, that PL came out saying that Mbeumo didn't really have the ball under control and thats why they ruled this way. Seems fair to me. I could see it handled differently and wouldn't make too much of a fuss out of it but I don't think, this is

No it doesn't. Do you think I missed the atrocious record we have had? I well aware of that and as I said - the manager should be held accountable. But there are a lot of players who shouldn't be here anymore and to me personally, it feels very very wrong to get rid of the manager (I am not particularly invested in him - only reason I defend him is because I think switching once again without a good plan is just prolonging the misery) but not axe a few players as well.


Commentator said, that PL came out saying that Mbeumo didn't really have the ball under control and thats why they ruled this way. Seems fair to me. I could see it handled differently and wouldn't make too much of a fuss out of it but I don't think, this is serious injustice.

unfortunately for the PL having control isn’t in the rules, they just made it up, strictly speaking if you are running onto a pass you are never in control of the actual ball only your actions. It was however a blatantly obvious goal scoring opportunity, that’s in the rules.

 

[Woziak]

You wish! We will labour to a 2-1 comeback win with a penalty and a red card for Sunderland which will give just enough hope to drag you back in....and then get spanked by Liverpool

You can’t drag me back in with a coach that picks 6 CB’s and 3 GK’s in a 20 man match day squad!

I was done with Ruben after Europa League Final, I’d genuine take Southgate, Sean Dyche, Brendan Rogers all are a significant upgrades on our current Head Coach!

 

[BorisManUtd]

It's a horrible defeat and results of other clubs since only made it worse. We concede easy and find it difficult to score, so a 3-1 loss makes sense. Breaks my heart watching us, feel sick most of the times. Ruben is not helping himself either but feel sorry for him as well. It's just sad state of affairs and only makes you depressed. Who knows what will happen vs Sunderland but for sure it won't be convincing win even if we manage to beat them.

 

[Denis' cuff]

I might’ve missed something but amid all the talk of the none red card fiasco, there was Cunha, shaping up to shoot on the edge of the box, or advancing further into the box when he was blatantly pushed squarely in the back, right under the referee’s nose and he didn’t even bother waving play on. Just like it never happened. It was clearly a goal scoring opportunity, albeit on the edge of the area. Referees clearly taking the piss at this stage and Pawson has long been one of the worse offenders. As somebody recently suggested, they are deliberately courting controversy to raise their own profile while knowing ply being backed by media and pogmol. Just when you think it can’t get any worse…

 

[rhutcho69]

The inconsistency with the intensity shown by the players is glaring.

Take for example the Arsenal game and the first 10 minutes Vs Chelsea, every player closing down, making runs, passing the ball forward quickly and incisively.

Tracking runners and winning 50 50s.

Brentford game and its the total opposite, the trend I've seen over a period of time now, is our problems stem from when our defenders start with no intensity or bravery especially in possession, it absolutley kills our momentum when Shaw, Dalot and Maguire for whatever reasons to take 3/4 touches, pass it slowly backwards and sideways, or just hit and hope Into congested areas.

I'm struggling with Amorims persistence in picking the most inconsistent players in the squad when we have young Yoro and Heaven on the bench, who both love to stride forward in possession, overloading the midfield, can pass between the lines , and pass quickly forward.

The old experience over youth that many a coach die on, more frustrating the amount of coaches who have persisted with the three mentioned.

Used to love how quickly United got the ball forward was always exciting to watch.