[The Hilton]

Brentford were there for the taking today, they only had one approach which was to lump the ball forward in the air, from open play or set pieces.

Yet we fell for it basically every time, the biggest culprit being Maguire playing everyone onside by dropping deeper then the rest of the defence, but Dalot and Shaw both struggled to deal with it regularly too

 

[sparx99]

One moment summed it up for me. Start of 2nd half Brentford launch a ball forward, De Ligt is heading it without any challenge or pressure and instead of heading it towards the middle of the pitch he heads it out allowing Brentford a thrown in exactly where they want it.

This is when we know we need to start the 2nd half fast and full of aggression. We give Brentford a minute to launch that throw in for absolutely no reason. I don't think this is something a manager should have to tell his players. They should have that much bloody common sense not to gift momentum to the opposition to do the exact things they want to.

We have a bunch of players who pretty much every other game seem lost on the pitch. Every other team we play against seems to know exactly where to be to win knock ons and 2nd balls but somehow we are never there. Half our throw ins actually end up gifting the opposition the ball.

The first touch and ball control of half the team is atrocious. Bruno spends half the game gesturing at others to get where he wants them. Surely that can't be helping his teammate if they constantly have Amorim and Bruno giving them instructions. Let them just play!

And this is despite having all week on the training pitch! I really don't see how we come out of this pattern if so far we haven't even been able to get the absolute basics right.

This is where I do think system criticism is valid.

It’s very easy to isolate wing backs. It’s very easy to force our attacks through Dalot and Dorgu.

That clearance from De Ligt is probably easier to find a player if there is a conventional full back next to him and a double pivot in front.

We seem to be asking players to do things they can’t do. Maybe if you have players suited to it the system etc can work but as far as I can tell:

GK - not good enough
CB - lack of pace to cover wide when Yoro or Mazraoui are missing.
RWB/LWB - not nearly enough attacking talent to play wide on their own.
CM - lack of athleticism and physicality especially against 3-man midfields
No 10’s - both Mbuemo and Cunha seem better in open spaces rather than the tight area this system forces them into.

A change back to 4-2-3-1 not only puts players in a more natural position for most of them but it also simplifies everyone’s instructions. The full backs and wide forwards can overlap and link up. Bruno is in his natural position. A CB pairing of De Ligt and Yoro seems solid and could be a really good foundation. Midfield would still be an issue but by fixing some other areas we may be able to get away with that a little more.

 

[moses]

Arsenal at OT, we dominated them from minute 1 and made their so called world class midfielder in Declan Rice a passenger.

We competed, but lost.

 

[El Zoido]

Will the fans boo the team or is that just a no no

We’re fighting amongst each other. In the first half I could see one of our lot getting shirty with another fan and one of the stewards had to intervene. Best I could tell was that the aggrieved guy took issue with someone being overly critical to the team. Nobody is turning up to games just to boo the team but it’s pretty grim when it goes like this. We left after the third goal went in and some reds were complaining at those leaving early, it’s been pretty fractious in the stands even at OT. Whether you’re there or not, we’re all just sick of it.

 

[Utd heap]

Arsenal at OT, we dominated them from minute 1 and made their so called world class midfielder in Declan Rice a passenger. That was our best performance of the season for sure. Against City and Chelsea, we played well as well.

Christ if thats as good as it gets we are all doomed. We played fairly well and got beat by an arsenal side miles from their best ffs

 

[Pjisared]

What are we doing at Carrington Monday to Friday, we certainly ain’t doing much coaching on defending, clueless, headless chickens, it’s almost laughable at times.
Any ball thrown into the box is panic stations.
Ferkin clueless.

 

[sparx99]

Even if you take away all the pen xG (which there is no reason to do) we're still massively under performing.

Just from the eye test though there doesn’t feel like we’ve seen loads of guilt-edged chances missed. The kind of chance where ‘player x must score’.

Regardless of xG we’ve also generally been bad for years at maximising our chances. Cunha today had a great chance to slip Bruno through and took a poor shot instead.

You shouldn’t need to coach players to make the right choice for the team.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

When will we be good again?

Genuinely not sure we will. Changing players doesn't help at all. Changing manager doesn't help at all. Getting a new (part) owner and backroom staff doesn't help at all. The club is just buggered.

 

[McGrathsipan]

We’re fighting amongst each other. In the first half I could see one of our lot getting shirty with another fan and one of the stewards had to intervene. Best I could tell was that the aggrieved guy took issue with someone being overly critical to the team. Nobody is turning up to games just to boo the team but it’s pretty grim when it goes like this. We left after the third goal went in and some reds were complaining at those leaving early, it’s been pretty fractious in the stands even at OT. Whether you’re there or not, we’re all just sick of it.

feck that sounds awful. It's just not working with Amorim and its a chore to watch the side struggle week in week out. There is zero enjoyment being a fan of United at the moment and it doesn't look like it's going to end soon.

 

[McGrathsipan]

That penalty kick was atrocious

 

[Eagle_eye]

We lose 3-1 and our keeper is our best player.. Iraola has a 10m release clause, let's just go and get him.

 

[Vicker]

I never understood why we can’t win second ball at all. We can’t press opponents and always, I really mean always, get out run. A simply one-two can break our press and attack forward. Or run to the empty and receive pass comfortably. While we just can’t do the same in the opposite direction.

Also, our passing lanes are so predictable. Teams can just defend tight and wait for the counter attack. Not to mention we never can pass balls with header precisely.

 

[moodyred]

Lower your expectations.

Any lower and it is relegation. Sigh.

 

[ForeverRed1]

A truely terrible result. Abysmal.

If Liverpool end up losing today.. we would have took the gap to five points with a win.

We would have been in and around the top teams, who will be eventually playing 3 games a week.

It’s no joke anymore. He’s got to go.

 

[Withnail]

Just from the eye test though there doesn’t feel like we’ve seen loads of guilt-edged chances missed. The kind of chance where ‘player x must score’.

Regardless of xG we’ve also generally been bad for years at maximising our chances. Cunha today had a great chance to slip Bruno through and took a poor shot instead.

You shouldn’t need to coach players to make the right choice for the team.

Perhaps you shouldn't need to in certain circumstances when looked at in isolation but isn't that part of the managers job? To make sure they players know their roles and to improve decision-making in various situations.

 

[BestRed]

That's mostly us and a few other teams from time to time. The other big teams do quite well when it comes to entertainment.

Could be an age thing, but I honestly don't see it being a patch on the game it was years ago, not just United but right through the game.

 

[foggybottom]

Another clown show led by an absolute clown. Amorim is by far the worst United manager in the past 60+ years. Totally predictable, including his little joke of changing centre back between the 60th and 70th minute.

I never had a doubt that Bruno would miss the penalty and from that moment on you could put your house on 3-1. That said, VAR's pathetic excuse for it not being a red card just shows that the officials at Stockley Park are almost as bad as Amorim... of course Mbeumo didn't have control of the ball, he'd been pulled back.

The only people who can't see that Amorim is clueless are Amorim and the other chief clown Ratcliffe. Things were actually better under ETH and the Glazers... I can't believe I'm saying this but Southgate would be better than this dolt

 

[julianfr]

This is where I do think system criticism is valid.

It’s very easy to isolate wing backs. It’s very easy to force our attacks through Dalot and Dorgu.

That clearance from De Ligt is probably easier to find a player if there is a conventional full back next to him and a double pivot in front.

We seem to be asking players to do things they can’t do. Maybe if you have players suited to it the system etc can work but as far as I can tell:

GK - not good enough
CB - lack of pace to cover wide when Yoro or Mazraoui are missing.
RWB/LWB - not nearly enough attacking talent to play wide on their own.
CM - lack of athleticism and physicality especially against 3-man midfields
No 10’s - both Mbuemo and Cunha seem better in open spaces rather than the tight area this system forces them into.

A change back to 4-2-3-1 not only puts players in a more natural position for most of them but it also simplifies everyone’s instructions. The full backs and wide forwards can overlap and link up. Bruno is in his natural position. A CB pairing of De Ligt and Yoro seems solid and could be a really good foundation. Midfield would still be an issue but by fixing some other areas we may be able to get away with that a little more.

Stop making sense. It may seem obvious to you and I and the rest of the world but Amorim knows best...

 

[BestRed]

Add choreographed corner routines, massive long throws, and booting the ball straight out at kick off in order to get the press on as well. Turd

Exactly, everything's so fecking planned & structured, it strangles the life out of the game, leaving no room for proper creative play.

 

[Lever]

How did we not sell Bruno this summer, and replaced him with a proper midfielder is beyond me.

 

[RuudTom83]

Apart from how laughably fecking useless we are as a team, the game itself imo is going to absolute shite as a spectacle.

Never ending VAR delays, shit refs, diving, shit formations, slow pointless pass after pass, on and on and on. What used to pass as entertainment is a fecking endurance test these days.

Yeah I felt the standard was particularly bad today.

But it’s not just United, the few times I’ve watched Arsenal and Liverpool this season have been similar spectacles.

 

[Escobar]

How did we not sell Bruno this summer, and replaced him with a proper midfielder is beyond me.

This will haunt us big time. Why Dalot is still here no idea

 

[KrasHammerhand]

I missed the game, it sounds like we started poorly and got back in the match, missed PK and then they put the game out of reach late.

Were we at least competitive?

 

[yamo123x]

Dalot should never play for this club again
He is not good enough, he gets away with murder. Everytime he plays it's like we got 10. 2 goals on him again today and offered nothing going forward

 

[kopviolator]

I missed the game, it sounds like we started poorly and got back in the match, missed PK and then they put the game out of reach late.

Were we at least competitive?

Not really. poor stuff all around.

 

[DevilRed]

Its not too late to change the manager and save the season.

It really isn't.

The silver lining is that we should have scored 2 goals this match at least.

Great to see Sesko off the mark.

But even his goal was just so so so difficult for us to pull off. He must have taken 2-3 stabs at it to finally get it over the line

 

[Ekeke]

Dalot should never play for this club again
He is not good enough, he gets away with murder. Everytime he plays it's like we got 10. 2 goals on him again today and offered nothing going forward

His pass set Cunha away for the cross that set up the penalty on Mbeumo. 1 of our only 2 good moments in attack

 

[Moriarty]

Could be an age thing, but I honestly don't see it being a patch on the game it was years ago, not just United but right through the game.

You're right. It's no longer about the football, and heaven knows that's bad enough , but the game has morphed into something akin to reality TV.

 

[Raoul]

Feel like something pretty remarkable has to happen against Sunderland for him to be in place against Liverpool after the break. He needed either a good performance or a good result today, he got neither. I don't think we looked any better today than in that first game against Ipswich. Doubt he'll get the chop this week, but it should be obvious to all that it's not working, I think it'll happen after Sunderland. The team just don’t believe in themselves, and Amorim doesn’t seem to be able to fire them up.

With another break looming, I suspect INEOS will use the Sunderland game as a green or red light to possibly make a change during the break.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Were we at least competitive?

No really we were not even close.
We were second best all match

 

[foggybottom]

Who do we hire then?

Allegri
Joachim Low
Xavi
Marco Rose
are all available I think

Could try for Pellegrini, who I think might be a good fix for a couple of years and see from there...

It has to be someone with proven success in one of the top European leagues. Everyone else has proved to be a waste of fresh air. But to be fair, Ruud and Michael Carrick would be a step up from Amorim.

But my guess is.... they'll approach Southgate

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

God I'm so fecking livid after this. I know it's not healthy for football to affect me this much, but somehow it does.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

I could go on a massive rant about who is bad who is good and who needs to be gone now but what’s the point.
Things are not going to change anything soon, even with another manager, will thing change , do we suddenly become a team that actually players as a team , I have no idea.
Iam not even angry , Iam past that , Iam just numb to it all.
This team and manager have almost killed my love of the game

 

[Paul778]

His pass set Cunha away for the cross that set up the penalty on Mbeumo. 1 of our only 2 good moments in attack

True. But it didn't feel deliberate.

This system requires confident WBs who cannot be left 1v1 - they are a threat carrying the ball, finding short passes and crossing. Dalot is elite in none of those areas whilst also having a brain fart in him most games. Most of the time we work an opportunity to isolate a defender only for him to recycle.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

God I'm so fecking livid after this. I know it's not healthy for football to affect me this much, but somehow it does.

Same but it's almost as if the people who can make changes don't give a shit.

 

[simonhch]

I’m not ashamed to say that I haven’t watched us play, even once, yet this season. With the time difference it’s just not worth getting up at 5 or 6am for the inevitable shambles. A decision that’s constantly proven well founded.

Where we are, how we play, it’s a disgrace. We are so weak. Just limp and pathetic. The manager is so far out of his depth it’s absurd. I can barely be bothered wasting my time on this club at all anymore.

 

[El Zoido]

God I'm so fecking livid after this. I know it's not healthy for football to affect me this much, but somehow it does.

Take a breather pal and go do something fun. The next game will roll around soon.

 

[Berbasbullet]

I’m not ashamed to say that I haven’t watched us play, even once, yet this season. With the time difference it’s just not worth getting up at 5 or 6am for the inevitable shambles. A decision that’s constantly proven well founded.

Where we are, how we play, it’s a disgrace. We are so weak. Just limp and pathetic. The manager is so far out of his depth it’s absurd. I can barely be bothered wasting my time on this club at all anymore.

I thought you liked the manager?

 

[Ekeke]

True. But it didn't feel deliberate.

This system requires confident WBs who cannot be left 1v1 - they are a threat carrying the ball, finding short passes and crossing. Dalot is elite in none of those areas whilst also having a brain fart in him most games. Most of the time we work an opportunity to isolate a defender only for him to recycle.

Its clearly on purpose as a first time pass

There wasnt much else to praise from him but that goes for all the rest of the players too

I think you'd be surprised when you look at the teams that use wingbacks. Not many have star players there or players who consistently deliver going forward. Its more about hard work and getting the ball to the actual attacking players. Dalot fits in with them aside from his brain farts defensively that happen too often

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I was really excited and nervous before this match. Why do I do this to myself? Man, I miss a United team that can just compete every game. I don't know what else to say.