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Manchester United 0:2 Burnley

Post-match discussion


Wed, 22 January 2020

Siorac

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Thanks.
A grim look! Have mercy, Moyes already had 40points (which is not much) and while we in 5 now, its tied with 6th and 7th and 1 point above 8th. Has the board become so familiar with failure that they can't see we worse off than the Chosen One!?!
The most incredible thing on that table is that Arsenal were top.
 

Tincanalley

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After Chelsea dropped points yesterday this was the most predictable result in the world. Our squad is spineless and shit themselves whenever the top 4 gets within their grasp. Ole and Ed has to take the blame though as well though. It was madness not to replace Lukaku and Sanchez in the summer, and their dragging their feet in signing anyone this month has probably cost us points as well.
At the start of the season, I predicted we would be eighth at the end. I think I was too optimistic. But they could do it.

The mask is off the Glazers for a while now, they are just scrambling to get their stuff off the leaky boat as it slowly sinks. There’s another six good years in it for the looters. There’s the fee they will get for Pogba. Woody is the front man, as he has been from early days (first as an accountant, now as a “CEO”), for the gutting of Manchester United Football Club. Sad.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Shelvey would do better on the ball than Andreas, but he'd still just have Martial static in front of him.
I was worried we might have problems when Marcus got injured. I do not rate Martial. He, as someone said blows hot and cold and can at times seem disinterested if things are not going right. Sometimes you just have to make things happen yourself. You know with Marcus that it might not always be working but he is giving his all.
 

Judas

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Rashford created plenty of goals for himself, he's got that bit of magic about him. Martial doesn't really. We've seen the odd moment, but any PL player is capable of a bit of magic every now and again.

I think they'll be a big change of the Martial support in the next few months when people witness over and over again that he's just not up to the task of being the leading striker for this team.
 

Toni Roncoroni

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Our players are moving like tankers. They are set up in their positions and stay there. It is so static. That is the United way from Sir Alex' time, because football has been played more or less like that back then. But it changed a lot in those years and Ole doesn't seem to have realized that. We lack quality of course, we lack owners and so on. But this has not that much to do with it.

Ole was talking about free floating attacking football. But now we are seeing nothing of that. Only shifting the ball between each others without any idea what to do next. The quality and ideas in the final third just aren't there.

At half time I switched over to Leicester for 15 minutes. It was depressing to see how they played together. I think we even couldn't do it with Maddison in our team.

And Ole: Please do yourself a favour and stop giving interviews. Nobody wants to hear those things. We were crap, once more.
 

pascell

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There has just been a United fan on Talksport who said we should get Mark Noble or Jonjo Shelvey. He said they wouldn't cost much and can spray the ball about.
I was listening to that caller on my way into work and at first I laughed, then I realised he's probably right, what a dire situation we're in.
 

Twisted Nerve

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Saw the youth team Cup highlights against Norwich. That was better than today's serving of pig's garbage.
 

Pagh Wraith

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A few thoughts on tonight's game from the stand. I'd be interested to see if people agree or differ on these:
  1. First half was a decent performance and we should have been a couple up before Burnley scored. Martial and Mata both had air shots from decent Wan Bissaka crosses and Martial completely fecked up a 1 v 1 opportunity in the box. We all may have opted for slightly different elevens, but the starting team was well justified and played well.
  2. Ole panicked at half time and upset the balance of the team by getting Greenwood on for Pereira, who whilst being wasteful and shooting too often from outside the box, was providing an important role in linking the team. We were dreadful second half and the balance of the team was completely gone. This was exacerbated further when Shaw and Lingard were brought on for little real purpose.
  3. Why are we playing Daniel James on the left? He's right footed, his biggest assets are passing and crossing whilst on the run, and he's not scored since August. He offers no threat cutting inside and is never going to be a creative fulcrum in that position against a side defending deep. What's more is that he would perfectly compensate for Wan Bissaka's lack of attacking incisiveness by staying wide and allowing AWB to focus on the stronger parts of his game, but dropping into midfield and covering counterattacks. I was baffled to see James left and Greenwood right second half. James should have been on the right putting crosses in for Martial and Greenwood. I don't know what Ole is thinking here.
  4. Fred was incredibly poor tonight. He was utterly clueless on the edge of the Burnley box. As much as he improved in games where we have a midfield battle, he's not cut out for games against weaker sides at home. He wasn't the only wasteful one, but the analysts aren't doing their job if they are not instructing our midfielders to stop shooting from range. Time and time again we give the ball away with 1-2% shots instead of recycling it and waiting for a better option. Our club would be well served instructing all our players to no longer shoot outside of the penalty area and D, except for Greenwood. It's embarrassing how little we respect the ball and play with a patience for a good chance. We're either overplaying or just shooting: just keep it simple and move, gaps will come.
  5. As happened with James earlier on this season when he scored three goals from a little more than those shots, we're now in danger of overrating Greenwood, whose overall play is leaving a lot to be desired. He'll be a top player in time. but he really struggles to impact the game and isn't getting anywhere near the number of chances and shots needed to maintain his good goalscoring run. Second half tonight and against Wolves he was pretty anonymous. He's 18; that's expected. We need to be comfortable with him not always being on the pitch when we need a goal. He isn't the solution to every problem currently.
  6. Not buying a top centre forward will be a real mistake. Martial has a role at the club, but he's not at the level to our main centre forward. You buy a top centre forward, one who can act as the real focal point of the team, and hope that either this purchase does what is expected of them, or Martial steps up and improves, or both things happen. We cannot go forward with only Martial up top though. He's shown that he's not of a sufficient standard to spearhead a title challenge.
This is a very good post.

As a neutral watching the game, the highlighted bit was one of the most striking things. You often question choices by players and managers as a fan but then you remind yourself these are highly professional athletes in a big money business so there must be a reason why they are doing this. And assuming that you, sitting on your couch at home, know better is perhaps a little arrogant. But I just cannot wrap my head around the number of absolutely pointless shots that you see in Premier League games week in week out. You don't have to be an expert on shot analysis to realise that anything from outside the box (particularly at an angle) is highly speculative and you at least want to have as little defensive pressure as possible on you. Unless your opponent is so far better than you that you have to take any chance you get, it is almost always better to retain possession and wait for a better opportunity.

You mentioned Fred but I think the worst attempt last night was the one from Shaw from the right edge of the box with a Burnley defender almost standing on his feet. That was as close to a 0% shot as you're going to see.

Without getting into a debate about Ole which doesn't particularly interest me, this clearly reflects badly on the coaching staff.
 

The Purley King

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Ole bungled this badly by taking Pereira off. Whilst he could have used the ball better, he was finding space between the lines on a regular basis. Once he went off we completely disintegrated.
I like James a lot, but he was awful last night and should have been hooked at half time instead.
 

mitchmouse

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I stand corrected: we do not play the same each game: this was beyond utter shite. An embarrassment to the club. Marital is a fecking joke as far as being even close to a top goal-scorer, he simply never makes an intelligent run. The midfield were outrun and out-muscled and DDG looked a clown as the second goal went in. Ole, as usual, hd no idea how to change things and is living in cloud-cuckoo land. Do the people running the club not see how hurt fans are? Do all those empty seats not register on their fecking brains?
 

NewGlory

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When you're 2 goals down with 20 minutes left and you need to bring on 2 players as a last roll of the dice to get something from the game.........and those 2 players are Shaw and Lingard! You've either lost the plot or you never had a clue in the first place.
To be fair, Shaw had a good game and he even scored (even if it was eventually denied by VAR).

I have nothing to excuse the bringing on of fecking JLingz. At this point I dont know why he is in the squad at all
 

mitchmouse

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Ole: "We took the decision to let some players go as we needed to start afresh with a clear sight on the target in front of us which is a certain type of player." what target..? there's no plan, we've gone backwards. You let players go without getting any replacements in.

Ole: "Go out tomorrow, the next day with the same commitment and get ready for Sunday." * Same recording message and it's exactly that which hasn't worked.

Ole" "I'm responsible for what is happening on the pitch." * Wow, we didn't realise.You are not up to the job.

Ole: "These players are stretched, and I've got no complaints on any of them - they give everything they've got." *What fecking games have you been watching?

Ole: Today we didn't get the first goal and that took a lot of belief out of us.. the players are disappointed but they gave everything once again - the effort is there. * Umm, isn't it your job to make sure that doesn't happen? and again I ask, what game were you watching?

Oliver Cromwell: "You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"
 

mitchmouse

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And I don't for moment believe we would definitely have won if Pogba and rashord had been fit
 

Catt

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Terrible after the 2nd goal went in. Worst I can remember. I spoke to a lot of people before, during and after the match, and believe me the anger is directed at Woodward, not Ole. There were also very loud bursts of Edward Woodward is a W*nker which I'm thinking must have been very audible on TV.
Thanks. Do the majority of the crowd want a managerial change or Ole to continue?
 

DomesticTadpole

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Ole: "We took the decision to let some players go as we needed to start afresh with a clear sight on the target in front of us which is a certain type of player." what target..? there's no plan, we've gone backwards. You let players go without getting any replacements in.

Ole: "Go out tomorrow, the next day with the same commitment and get ready for Sunday." * Same recording message and it's exactly that which hasn't worked.

Ole" "I'm responsible for what is happening on the pitch." * Wow, we didn't realise.You are not up to the job.

Ole: "These players are stretched, and I've got no complaints on any of them - they give everything they've got." *What fecking games have you been watching?

Ole: Today we didn't get the first goal and that took a lot of belief out of us.. the players are disappointed but they gave everything once again - the effort is there. * Umm, isn't it your job to make sure that doesn't happen? and again I ask, what game were you watching?

Oliver Cromwell: "You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"
No. That will be the sport psychologist (that he wants to hire)job.
 

Bilbo

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Thanks. Do the majority of the crowd want a managerial change or Ole to continue?
Jeez I dont know - I don't speak for all supporters and I don't get to that many matches these days. All I can tell you is that from what I heard and who I spoke to, most people seemed to believe that the reasons for us being where we are right now do not sit with our manager. People on here want a sacrificial lamb, but it won't help us. Its more likely to hurt us.
 

Zlatan Ibrahomovic

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Horrific experience yesterday. Matic was by far the best player on the field, so kudos to him I suppose. Jones was also decent, however, gave away freekicks for challenges which the more cowardly Lindelöf would not even have challenged for. Martial should have scored but is not he biggest issue- that is both Andreas and James having really poor vision and timing, continously holding on to the ball for too long and removing any sense of tempo from the attacks.

Lingard was also useless.
 

Sassy Colin

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I can't see how Andres gets the same rating as Lingard in this match.

Andres at least tried to make things happen and didn't run away from his responsibilities. He made a few decent passes and his decision making was reasonable enough. Lingard was Lingard, just making up the numbers.

As I mentioned in the Matchday thread, he gets far more stick that he should be getting on here.
 

Judas

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Andreas decision making is shocking, the amount of passes he doesn't see, the time he takes on the ball. Technically he's a good footballer, but he's not got the brain for the job. The idea that he sees himself, and Ole must, as some sort of creative force is bizarre.
 

dogwithabone

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I can't see how Andres gets the same rating as Lingard in this match.

Andres at least tried to make things happen and didn't run away from his responsibilities. He made a few decent passes and his decision making was reasonable enough. Lingard was Lingard, just making up the numbers.

As I mentioned in the Matchday thread, he gets far more stick that he should be getting on here.

Doesn’t play the simple pass enough. Twice last night he took shots from difficult positions but on both occasions he just wasn’t getting his head up to see a better passing option.

I don’t rate him as a top flight player.
 

Sassy Colin

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Doesn’t play the simple pass enough. Twice last night he took shots from difficult positions but on both occasions he just wasn’t getting his head up to see a better passing option.

I don’t rate him as a top flight player.
Nobody rates him as a top flight player, but at least he's clearly a footballer, something which is debatable in Lingard's case. He is much, much, better than Lingard.
 

Bestietom

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I'm not travelling over anymore to see this shit. 200 per trip it costs me, for to see this crap. Enough is enough.
 

LVGSdive

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Shelvey would do better on the ball than Andreas, but he'd still just have Martial static in front of him.
I used to think our strikers and forward players were static. Then Rio and BT showed clip after clip yesterday of forward players making runs in behind and not receiving the ball against Liverpool on Sunday. Either the play gets slowed down and the opposition get back into the correct defensive positions, or the pass is mishit. All this while the best player we have who is fit that can play these passes is Angel Gomes who doesn't get to kick a ball in anger and will be off for free soon.
 

Judas

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I used to think our strikers and forward players were static. Then Rio and BT showed clip after clip yesterday of forward players making runs in behind and not receiving the ball against Liverpool on Sunday. Either the play gets slowed down and the opposition get back into the correct defensive positions, or the pass is mishit. All this while the best player we have who is fit that can play these passes is Angel Gomes who doesn't get to kick a ball in anger and will be off for free soon.
It's true we lack vision from our midfielders, they never see the few runs we do make, but we're also a terribly static team.
 

Flanders Devil

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The thing is - I don’t think anyone is that surprised. And I reckon Dyche would’ve been quietly confident of a result tonight.

You look at when we played them last, and I think I said it then, we really struggled to create anything ourselves. We scored one from their back pass and then one in 95th minute when they committed everyone up.

So Burnley probably felt that if they keep their shape, we’d struggle to create many chances.
 

Bestietom

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Matic and AWB stopped and tried to hold the ball up, when no movement by the forwards to pass the ball to. Ridiculous
 

EngimaMK

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I've been supporting Ole all the time. But this is the end of the road. We should go after Poch right away!
I'm the same. Always supported Ole but my patience is running out. Fine, he has key players injured. I sympathise with that. But he's got to stop playing shite like Lingard. If he played U23 players, I'd feel much happier.
 

Player Ratings

4.0 Total Average Rating

Highest Rated Player

Lowest Rated Player

Compiled from 271 ratings.

Score Predictions

232,9,43
  • Man Utd win
  • Burnley win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 32% Man Utd 2:0 Burnley
  • 15% Man Utd 2:1 Burnley
  • 15% Man Utd 1:0 Burnley
  • 11% Man Utd 3:0 Burnley
  • 9% Man Utd 1:1 Burnley
  • 5% Man Utd 0:0 Burnley
  • 4% Man Utd 3:1 Burnley
  • 2% Man Utd 5:0 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 0:1 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 1:2 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 4:0 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 4:1 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 0:2 Burnley
  • 1% Man Utd 2:2 Burnley
  • 0% Man Utd 4:2 Burnley
  • 0% Man Utd 0:5 Burnley
  • 0% Man Utd 3:2 Burnley
Compiled from 284 predictions.
Show more results Score Predictions League Table

Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Burnley
Possession
72% 28%
Shots
24 5
Shots on Target
7 2
Corners
5 2
Fouls
11 7

Referee

Jonathan Moss