[dinostar77]

It's such a nonsense to say a manager is irrelevant until we get new central midfielders.

The fact we are still relatively high in the table despite all of our poor recent results shows many other teams have significant flaws.

Many of our competitors also have European games to contend with

Fletcher has no experience as manager but also only had around a day with the team. He set the team up in a bit of an odd way but would hopefully learn from the experience of kept in place

We should be able to qualify for the europa at least and that would have a knock on impact on our budget for next season

Huh?

I said it doesn't matter who we appoint. Until the CM issue is resolved it's irrelevant. You can only work with the players you have and our CM options aren't up to scratch.

 

[ZainCRse7en]

I can’t for the life of me bear to watch another season of Luke fkin shaw and Dalot in our team.

 

[kikks]

I'm not entirely sure why I'm so upbeat about the game yesterday. On a surface level, we dropped 2 points against a relegation candidate. But I just thought it was a marked improvement. Some of you are saying the midfield was a problem - I thought we saw a lot less of that. Missed the first 15 minutes of the first half, but from what I saw, generally with 3 in the middle, we were no longer overrun there. Ugarte was the ballwinner/waterboy picking it up and giving it to Casemiro and Bruno. Casemiro wasn't on it, Bruno was in his best position and it showed. We still need 1-3 new midfielders probably, preferably after both Ugarte and Casemiro disappear in the summer, but still worlds better than Amorim-ball.

Things I liked:
- Sesko scoring twice, on a through-ball and a cross that actually hit him. Also had another couple of headers and a weak shot on another through-ball.
- Bruno. Nuff said.
- Playing to win. Offensive substitutions.
- Lacey. Brave to come on and try a pair of shots like that. So close to scoring a worldie winner.
- Dominated possession and the game as a whole.

Things I didn't like:
- VAR / the ref. feck off with that being a "clear and obvious" foul.
- The goals against. First one is Casemiro sleeping and letting a player run in behind and Heaven is to slow to close it down. Unlucky with the deflection. The second is a rookie mistake from Martinez, letting Anthony turn inside towards goal when he has help to the outside. Terrible.

If Bruno stays on / was properly match-fit, we win this. We still need better defensive organization, better midfielders, probably a right back and perhaps a left winger? Who knows where that money will come from. But anyway, I'll take this 100 times out of 100 over the dross we've seen over the last 14 months or whatever. We might still get well beaten by City and Arsenal too. But just this game shows me that getting rid of Amorim was 100% the right choice. Not the process of it, the reasoning or any of that, merely the end result of him getting sacked. A lot of managers in the world can improve this team. So I am positive after this game, despite the dropped points. Perhaps some of you will tear my reasoning for that apart. Perhaps they will go back to being an omni-shambles. But for the first time in a long while, I had some fun watching United play.

 

[Xeque_279]

That was a fun watch. idk after how long I've said that. Adding Mbeumo/Amad & Maz to this lineup will be so much better!

Finally seeing the Bruno + Sesko link-up. Need to really build on this performance now.

 

[JBG]

It's very worrying that our team just falls apart when Bruno isn't on the pitch. Maybe with Amad and Mbuemo there it would've been better. But Cunha, Mount, Mainoo and Zirkzee did absolutely nothing to pick up the creativity or chance creation from one fecking player, yes it's Bruno. But still

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

It wasn't much, and i doubt most of our fans expected it to be, but there were glimpses here and there, in the second half, that could help us crawl to the finish line and see what happens next summer.

Firstly, we saw a team playing for its forward. I know that Burnley is a low bar, but Sesko's 7 attempts on target apparently are a record in the PL this season.

We also aimed to get Bruno in good pockets, especially in the right half-space, and either Dorgu or Shaw in-behind on the left to put some first-time balls in the box. Hardly breathtaking stuff, but, at least, our purpose on the pitch was to use what we have at our disposal, not to justify a man's obsessions.

 

[Matt851]

Huh?

I said it doesn't matter who we appoint. Until the CM issue is resolved it's irrelevant. You can only work with the players you have and our CM options aren't up to scratch.

A good manager can find ways to mitigate weaknesses in the squad and make them better than the sum of their parts. Just saying we can't do anything without another 200m spent on midfielders is a bit odd. If villa had a different manager they coulf easily be back to fighting relegation

 

[flameinthesun]

It's very worrying that our team just falls apart when Bruno isn't on the pitch. Maybe with Amad and Mbuemo there it would've been better. But Cunha, Mount, Mainoo and Zirkzee did absolutely nothing to pick up the creativity or chance creation from one fecking player, yes it's Bruno. But still

Not sure about falling apart. Bruno definitely adds creativity that we lack in the middle but the team was shaky defensively with Bruno on and off the pitch, and we created chances with him off the pitch. I think when you have to play with Dorgu at left wing, Ugarte in the midfield and bring on Zirkzee things will never be as good as we want it to be. I thought it was quite positive from an attacking perspective, especially compared to what we are used to. I also think the weakness that we know are in the squad e.g. Mbuemo, Amad away, having to play Ugarte, Zirkzee, plus playing Dorgu as winger (apart from Lacey we have no wingers at the moment), I don't think its surprising the result. In reality we should have won it. If we are able to keep this attacking intent (which hopefully improves with Mbuemo and Amad back) and just shore up the defense a bit we can have a good end to the season. Again in context of the weaknesses of our squad.

 

[JBG]

Not sure about falling apart. Bruno definitely adds creativity that we lack in the middle but the team was shaky defensively with Bruno on and off the pitch, and we created chances with him off the pitch. I think when you have to play with Dorgu at left wing, Ugarte in the midfield and bring on Zirkzee things will never be as good as we want it to be. I thought it was quite positive from an attacking perspective, especially compared to what we are used to. I also think the weakness that we know are in the squad e.g. Mbuemo, Amad away, having to play Ugarte, Zirkzee, plus playing Dorgu as winger (apart from Lacey we have no wingers at the moment), I don't think its surprising the result. In reality we should have won it. If we are able to keep this attacking intent (which hopefully improves with Mbuemo and Amad back) and just shore up the defense a bit we can have a good end to the season. Again in context of the weaknesses of our squad.

I can't remember one decent chance after Bruno went off? Laceys shot is not a chance created, it's a longshot after picking up the ball and running towards the box.

So the chance creation and attack fell apart.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Decent enough performance, just felt like one of those nights where luck continues to fall the other way. Sloppy defending for both of their goals and outside of that they posed no threat at all. Whereas we've had 2 cleared off the line, a goal ruled out that's given more often than not, hit the bar and missed a number of other good chances. Burnley could have had no complaints if we'd scored 5 or 6.

Ultimately though they are the worst side in the league and it was probably the easiest game left in the season so it's a really poor result.

 

[dinostar77]

A good manager can find ways to mitigate weaknesses in the squad and make them better than the sum of their parts. Just saying we can't do anything without another 200m spent on midfielders is a bit odd. If villa had a different manager they coulf easily be back to fighting relegation

It's been well known for awhile now that we are going to spend heavily on our central midfield this summer. No matter what you do with Casemiro, Ugarte and Mainoo. They aren't going to turn into Anderson, Wharton and Baleba.

Yes Fletcher will do what Amorim failed to do and mitigate the weaknesses in central midfield the best he can, i.e. playing a double pivot behind Bruno. However you can't turn a ford focus into a Ferrari, no matter how long you work on it.

So my point stands, whether you get in Luis Enrique, Ancelotti, Zidane or whomever else. It doesn't matter, because their hands are tied until we spend the £150mil, we will do this summer to buy 2 x elite CMs. That will make a massive difference to us, how we play both offensively and defensively.

 

[kikks]

I can't remember one decent chance after Bruno went off? Laceys shot is not a chance created, it's a longshot after picking up the ball and running towards the box.

So the chance creation and attack fell apart.

There were chances. But not huge ones.

Sesko played through by Shaw, scuffed finish. Dalot cross (after stumbling like an idiot) towards Yoro, if anyone is awake on the back-post that could have been turned in. A transition after a good turn from Zirkzee, Shaw playing Zirkzee through, ball ends up with Dorgu who crosses for Sesko, scuffs the finish. The first Lacey shot. Mount plays Shaw through after a small Lisandro raid, Shaw misses the ball and it goes out. And finally the second Lacey shot from distance.

Some of these could definitely have resulted in goals. Again, not huge chances but definitely chances.

 

[Dribbles]

Still allergic to a top 5 place. Well done team.

 

[Denis79]

We should have won regardless but the ref didn't help our cause. Happy for Sesko, when Bruno got subbed we lost momentum, Lacey was a breath of fresh air. Mainoo looked really rusty, our defence were a bit too passive.

 

[croadyman]

Don't fancy our chances for the rest of the season now. We play well in patches and badly the rest of the time. There's no consistency to our play at all. We have too many weak minded players. It's not the coach, it's not the system, it's the mentally fragile squad we've assembled.

Yeah only playing well in patches has cost us so many silly points against teams in the bottom half

 

[Chicharito_]

We leave Bruno on the pitch for 10 more minutes we win that game, it was chance after chance at that point and all going through Bruno. I think it was worth the risk for the 3 points with the fixtures we have ahead of us. As soon as he comes off Burnley have some control and the rest is history. Poor from Fletcher imo.

 

[croadyman]

We just can't control a game and we won't until we sign some midfielders. I think tonight is pretty much what we're gonna see with Ole, but the hope is when everyone is back and fit, he can get the front 3 firing. Our defence is also a massive problem.

Yeah won't be controlling games until next season then because INEOS aren't gonna spend anything until summer

I hope we get Xavi in as a permanent appointment to change things up and bolster the midfield. We will struggle against all 19 teams with Casemiro and Ugarte.

Clearly aren't considering him as he's available now

 

[Irrational.]

We are jinxed. We hit the cross bar, the post, had two certain goals cleared off the line. Sesko had 7 shots on target, and their goalie (who is crap BTW) saved 5 of them.

Burnley had a totally fluke of an own goal, and one shot that was a worldie and went in the top corner.

I cannot come to terms with how unlucky this team is. Like Villa away. We battered them all over the pitch and ended up losing to 2 worldies against the run of play.

This pretty much sums up exactly how I feel.

Our luck is simply rotten. In another universe we are comfortably top four.

 

[croadyman]

We leave Bruno on the pitch for 10 more minutes we win that game, it was chance after chance at that point and all going through Bruno. I think it was worth the risk for the 3 points with the fixtures we have ahead of us. As soon as he comes off Burnley have some control and the rest is history. Poor from Fletcher imo.

He said he was gonna manage his minutes

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yeah won't be controlling games until next season then because INEOS aren't gonna spend anything until summer

Yup. Defence isn't great either. Ole has a big job in tightening us up and putting together a coherent attack.

 

[Chicharito_]

He said he was gonna manage his minutes

I don't think he comes off if we are still 1-0 down at that point though!

 

[The Hilton]

We leave Bruno on the pitch for 10 more minutes we win that game, it was chance after chance at that point and all going through Bruno. I think it was worth the risk for the 3 points with the fixtures we have ahead of us. As soon as he comes off Burnley have some control and the rest is history. Poor from Fletcher imo.

Bruno needed to come off unfortunately, having just come back from injury, his long term health is more important than an individual match.

You make a good point though about how important he is to our attack. The system we were playing was all about getting Bruno on the ball in advanced areas, it isn't nearly as effective without him and we looked a bit blunt. We missed his leadership on the pitch too, dictating runs and the like.

 

[El Jefe]

I'm sorry but this one is clearly on Fletcher. We don't expect some kind of revolution over one game, he isn't in charge for this. Actually we just needed him to restrain from making baffling choices.

I think the last time I was so angry over in-game tactics was when we lost against PSG in 2020. Fred escaped a red card after a VAR review. Given the tension, the whole world, except Ole, knew that Fred had to be substituted. We know what happened later.

Obviously not the same situation tonight and not the same stakes. But taking off Bruno was as careless/incomprehensible as keeping Fred on the pitch that night. We managed to take the lead after stifling them hard throughout the second half. For the following 10-15 minutes it was just a matter of finishing them off with a third goal or calming the heat. Yet for weird reasons he decided to take off our best player and make the block drop deep to defend a feckin 1 goal lead as if we were known to be good at that. Don't tell me he's being cautious about Bruno's injury cause if he really were, he wouldn't have waited for us to take the lead before making those substitutions.

Worst post of the year candidate?

 

[robthered89]

A good game to watch with both sides creating plenty. Shame we didn't win but we did have the chances to and only some brilliant defending/keeping and some odd refereeing stopped us winning.

So that's positive.

What I liked most was Fletcher realising the space out wide but the quality of delivery was being poor, so straight away in the second half he sent Bruno to stand out right and swap with Cunha.

Easy to see on TV but many coaches wouldn't be so bold to change it so quickly.

A few players coming back for Brighton and most back for the Citeh game, let's stay positive. League position can improve with even 3/4 wins out of 5, just look at Brentford.

 

[Artimities]

What a season its been. The game yesterday was one that I was really looking forward to. I thought overall, we showed a decent amount of character. Playing away against a team that was ripe and ready for us. we know we are going to get everbody's best shot and yesterday was no different.
I thought that the first half we looked out of sorts, but you could tell that we shot out of a cannon in the 2nd half and looked pretty decent.
The first goal they scored was luck. The disallowed goal we scored was a load of crap. Sesko looked a different player by the end of the match, and that is a huge positive.
Really looking forward to getting Deligt and Harry back. We will look properly dangerous on set pieces when they return.
Curious to see how we look this weekend.
Another note... the way Fletcher walked out in the 2nd half. He had a swagger about him. A cockiness or something... not sure if anybody else noticed it.... but it was nice to see. One of my issues with Amorin was I felt he looked soft and uneasy on the touchline a lot. I dont see that with Fletcher. Just my 2 cents.

 

[RaddyRed]

Not sure I agree with people saying we played well but a big frustration for me, no matter who is in charge, is the speed at which we play and the constant fear of a forward ball.

As with the Leeds game, it seems that the players were just going through the motions hoping we have enough quality to win the game.

Going right back to the Fulham away game this season, which ultimately didn't end up result wise what we wanted, there was a period of this game where the players played high tempo, controlled possession and looking to get on the front foot. Granted 90 mins is a long time to keep consistency, but I feel these players aren't playing to their full potential and feels like they dont care at times. There have been other mini periods in games throughout the season as well, so the quality and ambition is there.

Maybe I'm wrong and modern football has just become a bit robotic.

Missing players at the minute doesn't help obviously so let's see what OGS does with players back.

 

[robthered89]

Modern football is certainly robotic!

The top teams look to keep the ball and build pressure, looking for mistakes or people out of position and then recycling if there are none. Plus they rely on set pieces.

There are some exceptions to that including that man k***p who coached at that bunch down the motorway.....

 

[RedRocket9908]

You could definitely see improvement last night over what we had been seeing under Amorim, I thought we looked better going forward with more players getting in to attacking positions, Sesko is looking a lot better now he isnt being starved of oppurtunities by the system.

I think we were unlucky to come away with only 1 point last night although Amorim probably would have lost this game

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

Was quite happy with how involved our left wing was in the game. We purposely played 1-2s and then got the ball in behind them for Dorgu to chase and get a cross in. It's such a simple tactic but with a packet winger who can cross the ball it's absolutely game winning.

We see so much cutting back and coming inside losing all the pace in the attack, at least when we go for the byline it gets their defence turned round and worried.

Thought Dorgu and Sesko were excellent as was Bruno at times. Ugarte had been improving steadily, he's very average but a very good ball winner and runner.

 

[Artimities]

Was quite happy with how involved our left wing was in the game. We purposely played 1-2s and then got the ball in behind them for Dorgu to chase and get a cross in. It's such a simple tactic but with a packet winger who can cross the ball it's absolutely game winning.

We see so much cutting back and coming inside losing all the pace in the attack, at least when we go for the byline it gets their defence turned round and worried.

Thought Dorgu and Sesko were excellent as was Bruno at times. Ugarte had been improving steadily, he's very average but a very good ball winner and runner.

Ugarte played really well in my opinion. He often was one of our only players that would dribble with the ball good distances instead of ping pong passing. Him mixing it up makes us much more threatening. I would like to see him continue to improve on confidence.

 

[RedStarUnited]

People are upbeat simply cos it was no Amorim in charge.

In 5 games, We have conceded 7 goals, and only won 2 matches against the teams in the bottom 3.

Thats how average we are.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Amusing to read the desperation of some posters to try and convince themselves last night was anything other than exactly the same as most games this season. Who would have guessed that suddenly playing a double pivot and 4 at the back wouldn't magically solve all of the same issues that have been cropping up all season? Burnley have scored the second lowest number of goals in the division and still managed to get two against us due to half-arsed defensive work/mistakes and worldy strikes, just like against Villa, Everton and god knows how many other teams this season. Yes, we created a lot of chances, but we've been doing that since the Arsenal game. Still square pegs in round holes, with Cunha and Dorgu as wingers, still back four substitutions, still Mainoo on the bench and jogging around the pitch as though it's a preseason run out in 100 degree heat. None of this is a dig at Darren Fletcher btw - it's hard to get much of a new manager bounce when things weren't that bad in the first place. But it was a stark reminder that our midfield needs major surgery, whoever the manager might be, and that the decision to not do anything about it lies squarely with Jason Wilcox, a fairly mediocre Blackburn Rovers winger with no first team management experience, who has admitted that he "always want(s) to interfere in what the managers are doing.” It's one thing for fans to not want Amorim anymore, but really, what credentials does Jason Wilcox have to warrant him wielding such influence??

Also, I couldn't believe my ears at the pundits last night. For the last 12 months we have heard nothing but shit from pundits and the media (which is then parroted back by all and sundry) about the 'system', about '5 at the back' blah blah. Then whaddya know, first game after Amorim gets the boot suddenly '5 at the back is a good system' (Tim Sherwood), and 'it's not about the system' (Jamie Redknapp). You couldn't make it up.

The one thing that I will concede is that - for probably the first time - we played to Sesko's strengths. That was good to see and great for him to get a brace to build his confidence. But the question then is whether a system that gets the best out of Sesko will get the best out of Mbeumo and Cunha - given that neither are 'chalk on the boots' traditional wingers built for servicing a big number 9. And where the heck is Amad going to play? He's been the player of the tournament at Afcon so far. Presumably him and Mbeumo are going to be fighting for a place now - leaving either out means that one of our best attacking talents will be on the bench.

So yeah, lots to sort out for the new guy. And if that new guy is Ole then what happens if he does brilliantly between now and the end of the season - is it going to be 'Ole's at the wheel' all over again from the fans? I don't rate Ole as a manager at all, but his tenure actually looks better and better as time passes, and another good period as a temporary manager would give him very strong credentials to take the job on permanently (maybe on a rolling annual contract?). That would be a mistake, but I couldn't argue that he wouldn't deserve it in that scenario. In all likelihood though we'll already have a permanent manager waiting in the wings who will be either taking over a team in disarray (if things go badly for Ole) or he'll be under immediate pressure with Ole as the 'King across the water' (if things go well for Ole). I think for that reason that Carrick might be a less problematic appointment as caretaker, but will never happen with Ole available.

In summary all last night showed me is that Ineos have made an absolute pigs ear out of the whole thing and the guy seemingly pulling the strings in terms of how we play is now Jason Wilcox, a guy appointed by Omar Berrada (himself not a football guy) based on knowing him from their time at City together. So a guy with a few years as City under 18s coach and 9 months as DoF at Southampton is now calling the shots at the biggest club in the world. When you look at the Ashworth debacle, the weirdness of the shortlived Dave Brailsford role, the decision to keep Ten Hag and then boot him a few months later, the decision to appoint Amorim, support his implementation of a completely new system and then ask him to change it just as it was arguably starting to bear fruit, does any of it give you the slightest faith that Jason Wilcox is some kind of footballing mastermind and not just somebody who was in the right place at the right time?

 

[Manncunian]

Fair enough.

I tend to value the opinions of those who are currently playing at the highest level, who overwhelmingly state how competitive top level football is, more than individuals on the Internet who have likely never kicked a ball in their life. I value people I know who play at a high level and myself who has played football all my life.

On top of that I also value seeing PL teams still doing well in Europe, which suggests the PL isnt at a bad level.

But yeah, some individuals online know best.

Hilariously sanctimonious for someone so blatantly clueless about what constitutes good football.

You simply cannot appear to grasp that competitiveness doesn’t automatically mean high quality football. National League is competitive, but nobody is out here claiming the standard of NL football is “very high”.

Almost everyone everywhere tends to be in broad agreement that the quality of football in the PL this season, and last season, is not particularly good. But do keep telling us how you playing football trumps the opinions and assessment of anyone who disagrees.

You can’t expect to be taken seriously or retain an ounce of credibility when trying to argue the standard of football must be very high just by looking at results and the table. How can anyone think results and a table tell you anything about the quality of football? What does looking at League 2 table tell us about the quality of football? Are you that naive that you think “lots of goals = good football”?

In fact, seeing as you pressed me to explain exactly why I believe the standard to be of a lower quality (which I did referencing unforced errors, poor passing, performances etc), could you please explain why the football is of such a high standard? And when I say explain, I mean articulating yourself beyond “I play football and speak to others who play football and we think it’s good”. Elaborate. Give details.

 

[Hammondo]

Modern football is certainly robotic!

The top teams look to keep the ball and build pressure, looking for mistakes or people out of position and then recycling if there are none. Plus they rely on set pieces.

There are some exceptions to that including that man k***p who coached at that bunch down the motorway.....

but Klops way was a lot less consistent, that's why he moved towards possession football.

 

[Kayla40TS]

I was worried they were going to batter us, and I hold my hands up and say for the most part we battered them.

However, a better team (make no mistake that's the worst team in the league and they will almost certainly finish bottom, imo) would have taken even further advantage of that setup. When they could be bothered to try and play football and attack, they walzed through our midfield at will. Burnley. Let that sink in.

Much smarter people than me have been saying this loudly for a long time but to reiterate, there is no combination of Ugarte, Case, Mainoo that works in as a midfield two. None. They MAY be able to get away with a midfield 3 of all of them. Maybe. But that leaves 3 attacking spots for Bruno, Mbuemo, Cunha, Amad, Sesko, and Mount.

Interesting that every time Amorim subbed one of his CBs essays had to be written about it but when Fletcher does it, not a peep.

Anyway, that game infuriated me. The fact is, the players aren't fecking good enough. Not even close. The squad is so poorly constructed it's a joke.

And don't get me started on Mainoo jogging to collect the ball for a goal kick with two minutes left. fecking joke of a player. Thinks he's the shit and I can't be doing with that. Does my head in. Gonna be on social media liking posts that disrespect Amorim and let your brother be a bellend at matches? You'd better back that the feck up on the pitch. Which he hasn't. In fact, when he broke in he was quite good but no where near good enough to justify being such a twat.

I remain in fear that a place in Europe was still very much on the table and now we will be lucky to finish in the top half. Again, I hope to Cantona I am wrong.

 

[manichester]

Wide open midfield, poor defending, poor finishing limited pressing. Normal service.

 

[sunama]

Very unlucky.

Burnley are near the bottom of the league and struggle to score goals and points.
When they play us, they score.
You think this is luck?

 

[sunama]

Most fun I’ve had watching United in a long time. Should have won. Sesko getting two is great for us, two super finishes.

Both of them were proper strikers' goals.
You won't see defenders scoring those types of goals.

 

[Dansk]

A freak own goal of the kind that happens once every two or three seasons. Conceded another on Burnley's single shot on goal. Hit the woodwork twice. Robbed of a perfectly legitimate goal by corrupt ref/VAR. The scoreboard is the final verdict, but for the purposes of judging performance and whether or not we were good enough, we effectively won the game. The factors that made it so we didn't win were not factors that stem from us not being good enough to beat Burnley. We don't get 3 points for a "moral victory," but when it comes to determining whether or not we were better yesterday than we were under Amorim, the answer is absolutely yes. It took extremely bad luck and objectively incorrect refereeing to rob us of the win.

 

[Exiled_Red]

I can’t for the life of me bear to watch another season of Luke fkin shaw and Dalot in our team.

Amen.

Im not a fan of Shaw but hes actually serviceable as a LCB. As a LB he's pretty useless nowadays. He only passes backwards and isnt the ball progressor he used to be. And if we keep playing him at LB he'll be injured again within the month.

Dalot is useless. I've been saying this since early in his time here. He isnt above average in a single area of his game. Somehow he got this reputation for being good in attack without actually doing anything to prove it. His touch is horrible, his decision making is horrible, he gets caught ball watching constantly, and he somehow manages to give the ball away a ton while only playing safe passes (which blows my mind). We shouldve sold him and held onto AWB.