[Rusholme Ruffian]

We don't get 3 points for a "moral victory," but when it comes to determining whether or not we were better yesterday than we were under Amorim, the answer is absolutely yes. It took extremely bad luck and objectively incorrect refereeing to rob us of the win.

And that never happened under Amorim yeah?

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Wild prediction - we will randomly beat Arsenal, ruining their title hopes, cementing their Bottlers status, but will miss top5 because we have wasted easy wins against relegation teams

Unlikely but a very United move

Nailed it

 

[Drainy]

Burnley are near the bottom of the league and struggle to score goals and points.
When they play us, they score.
You think this is luck?

There was luck in their first goal

There was luck in our disallowed goal

There was luck in two goal line clearances and two times hitting the woodwork and not going in

They got one shot on target and scored two
We got like ten and also got two..

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Cunha cannot play on the right wing. Was wild it took Fletcher half the game to figure that out. Burnley kept getting success down our right flank and their pathetic goal came from our right side

 

[Zed 101]

Martinez disallowed goal, if Martinez committed a foul why did the ref wait for the play to progress 5+seconds and the goal to be scored before signalling the foul?

We created more clear cut chances than we have in any game recently, proper clear cut chances, and if those Sesko chances had come after he scored he probably would have scored them, his confidence went sky high and he looked a much better player, much sharper after the 1st goal.

Heaven OG just freak, if anything blame is with Cas for not tracking his man.

Given that Ferguson had a couple of days only to work with the group, and we were still working with a half fit Bruno, Mount and Mainoo, we conceded a fluke goal, a bad goal from Martinez but still a worldie, had 2 goal line clearances, created chances which an in form Sesko would probably have done better with and had the GK make some decent saves, and hit the woodwork twice it was a massive improvement.... but it was still Burnley.

But what a difference it makes when you play Bruno in an advanced position, it really is night and day, I also like having a left footed winger on the left and right on the right, guess what it means they can cross the ball! shocker, can you imagine nowadays Beckham playing on the left and Giggs on the right, what an absolute waste.

Over all reasons to be positive, hopefully with a little more time for Ferguson to drill them we can do better, just wish we had Amad and Mbuemo back!

 

[lex talionis]

Considering all things, we actually played well, certainly well enough to have deserved victory. Luck went against us with the OG, and then with the referee decision on our perfectly good goal that is rarely ever disallowed for that kind of contact. Then the woodwork. The goal line clearances weren't luck...it was great desperate defending by Burnley so no complaints there.

But at least we deserved to win, unlike the Wolves match and even the Leeds match. What this squad needs to figure out is how to translate deserved victories into actual victories.

 

[Maticmaker]

Apart from the realisation that Sesko* can become a real striker, and Lacey is playing with no fear, then the fact we had most chances (expected against Burnley) and didn't finish effectively (also expected) it all was so frustrating.

Even allowing for miraculous goal line clearances from Burnley we should have notched up at least 3, possible up to 5 goals, last night.

[* when he lost that nervous condition and began to move with freedom and insight ,for both goals, I began to believe we might see a return on his fee after all.]

 

[leeroyTX]

Cunha cannot play on the right wing. Was wild it took Fletcher half the game to figure that out. Burnley kept getting success down our right flank and their pathetic goal came from our right side

I think that's less of a Cunha problem (though he is clearly more productive off the left) than it is that Dalot is crap. He's just crap. Until Maz is back with us, we're stuck with this. I'd love to think a back 4 of Maz - De Ligt - Martinez - Shaw will be so much better than what we've seen recently.

 

[statpadders]

Should've been 5-1. I'll give Burnely their 2nd goal.

But 2 saved off the line and 2 more off the post? That's as unlucky as it gets.

You're forgetting the absolute farce of a decision to disallow Martinez's goal.

 

[leeroyTX]

You're forgetting the absolute farce of a decision to disallow Martinez's goal.

Ok...6-1

 

[Bobski]

It was the crap for the first 30 mins then increasingly better after.

However one of the good things about Amorin being sacked is that we don't have to pretend that an unlucky few moments or missed chances against a crap team constitutes positive progress.

Still should have won. The drop in intensity after taking the lead and the subs was poor. Fletch should have gone for the throat there.

 

[justsomebloke]

I'm not entirely sure why I'm so upbeat about the game yesterday. On a surface level, we dropped 2 points against a relegation candidate. But I just thought it was a marked improvement. Some of you are saying the midfield was a problem - I thought we saw a lot less of that. Missed the first 15 minutes of the first half, but from what I saw, generally with 3 in the middle, we were no longer overrun there. Ugarte was the ballwinner/waterboy picking it up and giving it to Casemiro and Bruno. Casemiro wasn't on it, Bruno was in his best position and it showed. We still need 1-3 new midfielders probably, preferably after both Ugarte and Casemiro disappear in the summer, but still worlds better than Amorim-ball.

Things I liked:
- Sesko scoring twice, on a through-ball and a cross that actually hit him. Also had another couple of headers and a weak shot on another through-ball.
- Bruno. Nuff said.
- Playing to win. Offensive substitutions.
- Lacey. Brave to come on and try a pair of shots like that. So close to scoring a worldie winner.
- Dominated possession and the game as a whole.

Things I didn't like:
- VAR / the ref. feck off with that being a "clear and obvious" foul.
- The goals against. First one is Casemiro sleeping and letting a player run in behind and Heaven is to slow to close it down. Unlucky with the deflection. The second is a rookie mistake from Martinez, letting Anthony turn inside towards goal when he has help to the outside. Terrible.

If Bruno stays on / was properly match-fit, we win this. We still need better defensive organization, better midfielders, probably a right back and perhaps a left winger? Who knows where that money will come from. But anyway, I'll take this 100 times out of 100 over the dross we've seen over the last 14 months or whatever. We might still get well beaten by City and Arsenal too. But just this game shows me that getting rid of Amorim was 100% the right choice. Not the process of it, the reasoning or any of that, merely the end result of him getting sacked. A lot of managers in the world can improve this team. So I am positive after this game, despite the dropped points. Perhaps some of you will tear my reasoning for that apart. Perhaps they will go back to being an omni-shambles. But for the first time in a long while, I had some fun watching United play.

Hm. We have very different impressions. I thought we looked messier, less structured, more vulnerable. Very poor for about half the game (first 30, the 15 after our 2nd goal). For the other half, pretty dominant. Like we were used to in games against weak teams a few years back. But this was against a tesm that averages an xga of nearly 2 (we inflicted 2.42). Overall I don't think it was that great a performance.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Hm. We have very different impressions. I thought we looked messier, less structured, more vulnerable. Very poor for about half the game (first 30, the 15 after our 2nd goal). For the other half, pretty dominant. Like we were used to in games against weak teams a few years back. But this was against a tesm that averages an xga of nearly 2 (we inflicted 2.42). Overall I don't think it was that great a performance.

That’s a really bizarre take. More vulnerable? They had one shot on target! If xGa is your thing then how do you tally us being less structured and more vulnerable in a match where our xga was 0.24?!

 

[Brazilian_Ronaldo_9]

That’s a really bizarre take. More vulnerable? They had one shot on target! If xGa is your thing then how do you tally us being less structured and more vulnerable in a match where our xga was 0.24?!

Burnley are bottom of the league, they managed to get the ball in the dangerous area on the edge of our box few times in the first half. Concerns are there, really need to improve on this.

It’s a good thing Burnley attackers are useless, any other team we would be struggling.

It’s a one off game, will give us the benefit of the doubt and time to improve.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

I think that's less of a Cunha problem (though he is clearly more productive off the left) than it is that Dalot is crap. He's just crap. Until Maz is back with us, we're stuck with this. I'd love to think a back 4 of Maz - De Ligt - Martinez - Shaw will be so much better than what we've seen recently.

I dont disagree that Dalot is poor, but Cunha was hopeless in his defensive responsibilities on the right

 

[Tincanalley]

Right. A full 2 goal better xg than opponent. We looked miles better.

Well, to be fair it was fairly even. But I suppose I expected us to be able to beat them. Not to look so open, not to concede two, especially that second goal. Fair play to Burnley. But to my eye it was certainly no improvement on RA. I’m a bit sick of the club. Not Fletcher or the players, just the two ex City ***** on the sideline. Where did our soul go?

 

[Zed is not dead]

Well, to be fair it was fairly even. But I suppose I expected us to be able to beat them. Not to look so open, not to concede two, especially that second goal. Fair play to Burnley. But to my eye it was certainly no improvement on RA. I’m a bit sick of the club. Not Fletcher or the players, just the two ex City ***** on the sideline. Where did our soul go?

Can you please elaborate on « being so open » when they literally didn’t have the ball and had one shot on target, also while we bettered them on every single metric?

Shite defensive maybe, but wide open is simply and objectively false

 

[Tincanalley]

Can you please elaborate on « being so open » when they literally didn’t have the ball and had one shot on target, also while we bettered them on every single metric?

Shite defensive maybe, but wide open is simply and objectively false

I thought that after United scored, there was a need to control the game which we patently did not do.

 

[USREDEVIL]

I must have had too much last night because i was overall happy with the performance but annoyed at the result. I went away thinking we did not get the win due to bad luck and some great goalkeeping.

 

[Zed is not dead]

I thought that after United scored, there was a need to control the game which we patently did not do.

Still didn’t answer. What objective criteria can you use to say we haven’t had control?

 

[dirkey]

Still didn’t answer. What objective criteria can you use to say we haven’t had control?

I'm also struggling to understood how it was "fairly even".

We absolutely battered them in every metric. 2 shots cleared off the line. Hit the woodwork on a few occasions. Sesko missed a few good checks. Shaw fails to even connect with the ball when in a pretty good position etc.

Baffling.

 

[RedSince82]

I thought they played well and I actually enjoyed the game for once and was entertained. Burnley scored a wonder goal and Sesko could have had a hat trik. Was unlucky.

We still need players. But at least until summer the games will be worth watching.

 

[giggslover]

How did we not win this game?

I hate this club right now...

 

[Garnacho Libre]

Many will disagree, I feel like United were on the right track. They are creating chances and not ruthless enough to finish them.

There is a lot of problems but at least there isn't an issue with creating chances - gotta learn how to put them away.

For transparency, they are still a million miles away - but - we have to accept where currently they are at.

 

[NewGlory]

Didn't notice back then, but just saw this video... That infantile cnut Hannibal was trying to start some shit with Ugarte after the match? What a total feckface

 

[justsomebloke]

That’s a really bizarre take. More vulnerable? They had one shot on target! If xGa is your thing then how do you tally us being less structured and more vulnerable in a match where our xga was 0.24?!

You're reading too much into that comment. Vulnerable, I thought we looked less assured on the ball when in possession in the defensive third, which has actually been a strong area lately. And I thought it looked rather easy for them to get through our midfield and establish control around the box. They didn't create much from it because they are not a very good team. But it still represents a vulnerability. The point with the xga was just that this is an opponent that most teams create a lot of chances against.

I guess at this stage I'm basically a bit stand-offish about what we're seeing.

 

[kikks]

You're reading too much into that comment. Vulnerable, I thought we looked less assured on the ball when in possession in the defensive third, which has actually been a strong area lately. And I thought it looked rather easy for them to get through our midfield and establish control around the box. They didn't create much from it because they are not a very good team. But it still represents a vulnerability. The point with the xga was just that this is an opponent that most teams create a lot of chances against.

I guess at this stage I'm basically a bit stand-offish about what we're seeing.

Since right after the game, I've had several discussions with other United fans who also had a different opinion than mine. And honestly, I'm still not sure I can defend the position of being upbeat after the game given who we played and the end-result. I will never be against someone changing my mind, but this I guess is more of a feeling than actually fact-based perhaps?

Again, I thought we looked better in the middle. Perhaps I should re-watch the game (but I'm unlikely to do so, it was a fecking 2-2 draw at Burnley after all). Ugarte was better, Casemiro was worse and Bruno is always at least ok and in this game he was good I thought. Casemiro being off and the back four forgetting that there are no longer 5 of them sometimes led to open passing lanes, but for me it was worlds apart from when Fulham and the like waltzed through our midfield with hardly any opposition.

For sure we are still vulnerable, because for some reason since Ferguson disappeared we have been prone to bone-headed mistakes in defense. It is honestly baffling. The first one less so, like I said in the original post you can get on Casemiro or Heaven, the former probably more than the latter. But the second goal is idiotic. No central defender in history should think it is a good idea to let an opposing player turn inside towards goal in that situation. That's basically the only outcome that is absolutely not allowed.

And being wasteful on the other end is also not new. Hopefully that will improve with increased confidence and principles and tactical set-ups that they actually understand and/or are explained properly. We saw how Sesko improved after getting his goal, and now that players finally seem to be allowed to play through-balls and cross towards him, his output should also increase.

 

[UTD_Since_1978]

Poor result yet again.

When you go 2-1 up against the team 2nd from bottom & looking dead certs for relegation you really should go on to win the match.

When it is 2-2 with around 30 minutes still to play against the team 2nd from bottom & looking dead certs for relegation you really should go on to win the match.

Good to see Sesko notch a couple, hopefully the start of many more to come for the rest of the season, we'll see.

 

[Anustart89]

That’s a really bizarre take. More vulnerable? They had one shot on target! If xGa is your thing then how do you tally us being less structured and more vulnerable in a match where our xga was 0.24?!

One of the main things for me is we just ceded control of the game right after scoring and let them put us under pressure until they scored like we’ve seen so many times before. The fact that they equalised when they’d only racked up 0.24xG is lucky for them but if they hadn’t scored from that chance it was definitely looking like they would’ve had more and more of the ball and would’ve created more chances until they scored. Such was the drop-off from us after we scored and took Bruno off.

 

[justsomebloke]

Since right after the game, I've had several discussions with other United fans who also had a different opinion than mine. And honestly, I'm still not sure I can defend the position of being upbeat after the game given who we played and the end-result. I will never be against someone changing my mind, but this I guess is more of a feeling than actually fact-based perhaps?

Again, I thought we looked better in the middle. Perhaps I should re-watch the game (but I'm unlikely to do so, it was a fecking 2-2 draw at Burnley after all). Ugarte was better, Casemiro was worse and Bruno is always at least ok and in this game he was good I thought. Casemiro being off and the back four forgetting that there are no longer 5 of them sometimes led to open passing lanes, but for me it was worlds apart from when Fulham and the like waltzed through our midfield with hardly any opposition.

For sure we are still vulnerable, because for some reason since Ferguson disappeared we have been prone to bone-headed mistakes in defense. It is honestly baffling. The first one less so, like I said in the original post you can get on Casemiro or Heaven, the former probably more than the latter. But the second goal is idiotic. No central defender in history should think it is a good idea to let an opposing player turn inside towards goal in that situation. That's basically the only outcome that is absolutely not allowed.

And being wasteful on the other end is also not new. Hopefully that will improve with increased confidence and principles and tactical set-ups that they actually understand and/or are explained properly. We saw how Sesko improved after getting his goal, and now that players finally seem to be allowed to play through-balls and cross towards him, his output should also increase.

I can definitely echo that. A single game, the first after a sacking, and with some quite contradictory elements, good and bad. You take notice of certain things, but it's hard to tell if they're the right ones, or what was just transitory or circumstantial, and what turned out to be lasting. I agree Sesko was a clear positive that seems significant, not just because he scored but also because he was much more consistently fed. Another was Brunos obvious impact around the box. On the other hand, Cunhas virtual invisibility, after the impact he's been having lately. Is that connected with Bruno's re-emergence as the attacking focal point or the formation change? Guess we'll find out.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I can definitely echo that. A single game, the first after a sacking, and with some quite contradictory elements, good and bad. You take notice of certain things, but it's hard to tell if they're the right ones, or what was just transitory or circumstantial, and what turned out to be lasting. I agree Sesko was a clear positive that seems significant, not just because he scored but also because he was much more consistently fed. Another was Brunos obvious impact around the box. On the other hand, Cunhas virtual invisibility, after the impact he's been having lately. Is that connected with Bruno's re-emergence as the attacking focal point or the formation change? Guess we'll find out.

Did you not watch the Spurs match? Or against Wolves? He was exactly as bad in those games as he was against Burnley. He's had a few stinkers this season. Look at his performance thread if you don't believe me. Trying to pin his disappearing act against Burnley on Fletcher is a massive stretch.

If there's any theme with him being good vs crap it's that playing against low blocks is his kryptonite. Give him space to run into and he looks great. Take it away and he struggles. Which isn't that surprising as it's probably something he never experienced when he was at Wolves.

 

[justsomebloke]

Did you not watch the Spurs match? Or against Wolves? He was exactly as bad in those games as he was against Burnley. He's had a few stinkers this season. Look at his performance thread if you don't believe me. Trying to pin his disappearing act against Burnley on Fletcher is a massive stretch.

If there's any theme with him being good vs crap it's that playing against low blocks is his kryptonite. Give him space to run into and he looks great. Take it away and he struggles. Which isn't that surprising as it's probably something he never experienced when he was at Wolves.

Like I said, I really don't know what to make of Cunha's weak performance in this game, so I'm not trying to pin that on anything.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Like I said, I really don't know what to make of Cunha's weak performance in this game, so I'm not trying to pin that on anything.

You seem to be trying to use it as a counter to the positive performance from Sesko. “Yes, this improved but this got worse”. I’m just saying that Cunha being crap/anonymous is definitely nothing new. It’s happened a few times this season, almost always against teams that sit deep like Burnley. Unlike Sesko scoring a brace. Which hasn’t happened against anyone.

But yeah. One game. We’re definitely drawing conclusions from very little data!

 

[justsomebloke]

You seem to be trying to use it as a counter to the positive performance from Sesko. “Yes, this improved but this got worse”. I’m just saying that Cunha being crap/anonymous is definitely nothing new. It’s happened a few times this season, almost always against teams that sit deep like Burnley. Unlike Sesko scoring a brace. Which hasn’t happened against anyone.

But yeah. One game. We’re definitely drawing conclusions from very little data!

As you can see, the general gist of the post is that it's hard to know what to make of anything from that game. Sesko was a positive, Cunha a negative yes, but who knows how it looks in 4 weeks. You're right that this seemed significant with Sesko while Cunha certainly has had weak games before. I'll say though that I 've been thinking lately that it really started to look like he's becoming the attacking dynamo of the team, with a really strong presence, so this was a pretty notable sudden dropoff. But again...interesting times isn't it.

 

[Tincanalley]

Still didn’t answer. What objective criteria can you use to say we haven’t had control?

You very objective, Zed?

 

[Zed is not dead]

You very objective, Zed?

It was a simple question to which you failed ti answer twice now.
Let’s call it a day

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I can’t for the life of me bear to watch another season of Luke fkin shaw and Dalot in our team.

Agreed mate. I wil watch but please change this. Can't wait for Maz to be our full time RB and Shaw ti be a squad player somehow, please.

Very happy for Sessko. I really like him and truly believe he will be a goo player for us.