[sammsky1]

I guess it's because Mourinho has absolutely no faith in the team's ability to score multiple goals.

And he'd be right to have that point of view

 

[GM K]

Raahford's cross. That boy is going places.

 

[AndyMUFC]

That was brutal. Don't wanna seem too negative, we're in a European final after all but we just sat back and gave the ball back to Celta Vigo for 3/4 of the game. Luckily they didn't have the cutting edge to break through until late on but it was tepid stuff.

Still, job done and Jose did it again. I wouldn't be that surprised to see a similar game in the final to be honest, although preferably not...

 

[Laphroaig]

Where are the threadmarks? I'm in here to see some post match interviews, but it's 15 pages of morons moaning.

 

[manunited1919]

I hope this summer we buy 3-4 attacking players and finally get rid of Rooney. We need to have the options in attack for the manager to make attacking substitutions and kill off games. No Defenders, no midfielders (TFM & Pereira will do), no goalkeepers. We just need to reinforce Attack, Attack, Attack.

 

[noodlehair]

Same thing has started happening as it did with LVG...before the game, everyone you watch the game with predicts how it will pan out, and the stupid things that Jose will do to make it worse.

Then the game takes place, and everything everyone predicted, turns out to be correct, because the only person on the planet who can't see it, is Mourinho.

No matter how many times something is obviously a bad idea, and oobviously isn't working, Jose will keep doing it. Because there is always an excuse. It is the referee or the fixture list, or players not doing what they're told. It can never be the fact that Jose's terrible and negative game management handed complete control of the game to a vastly inferior opposition team.

It's exactly what he did at Chelsea and it's become massively concerning.

 

[minoo-utd]

Mourinho was under unbelievable pressure seeing him almost shed a tear after the game finished is say it all about the pressure and what we have been through this season, and of course he transferred the pressure and the tensity into the players after he said that this game is the most important game in our history!

 

[Fridge chutney]

I agree with you.

We've known this squad has critical issues that won't be solved until a very successful summer transfer window.

So trotting out the same frustrations game after game and expecting it to be somehow better is quite a balmy mad point of view.

Given the circumstances I don't care what style and strategy Mourinho uses, as long as he wins us CL qualification.

Winning 2 albeit minor trophies when we have such a disjointed squad will do for me.

Exactly. Compared to last year when we embarrassingly lost to bloody Liverpool in the quarters , I'd take this any day.

 

[sizzling sausages]

Our season reminds me of a much shitter version of Chelsea's season 2 seasons ago.

Start off playing decent, attacking football (Chelsea's was more than decent tbf) until you get beat convincingly in a match (against Spurs for Chelsea, iirc) and then Mourinho shits himself and his incredibly negative side comes out.

From that point forward he decides to stop attacking whenever his team goes in front and just give the ball to the other team. This causes the team to be under the cosh for the rest of the match. Chelsea were lucky enough that they managed to see out enough matches that they still easily won the league, although Mourinho did cost them dearly against PSG in the Champions League.

 

[Attila]

I agree with you.

We've known this squad has critical issues that won't be solved until a very successful summer transfer window.

So trotting out the same frustrations game after game and expecting it to be somehow better is quite a balmy mad point of view.

Given the circumstances I don't care what style and strategy Mourinho uses, as long as he wins us CL qualification.

Winning 2 albeit minor trophies when we have such a disjointed squad will do for me.

That's how I feel as well.

 

[Fridge chutney]

We were lucky to go through. We played very poorly, the strategy and tactics were wrong, and if they had a striker we would be out. There is no entitlement, just some realism and an acknowledgement that if we play like that in the final we will lose. They are none so blind who will not see.

If anything it proved we can play poorly and still get the job done.

 

[Youngie]

Winning three of the five trophies you actually enter would not be so bad when all is said and done. Especially in a season where the Scouse, City, Spuds, and most probably the Arse win Feck all.
#spoiltbastards

 

[Attila]

 

[tentan]

One more match to go, c'mon utd!

 

[NoPace]

Fellaini, Carrick and Pogba all failing to look behind them and see that we were outnumbered 3-2 on that Guidetti chance damn near gave me a rage stroke.

 

[Mockney]

It's as close to fact as an opinion can get probably.

We've tried to do things the Jose way all season of sitting on one goal leads, making negative defensive subs and it's come back to haunt us countless times. I mean for feck sake it's the 4th time in the Europa League knockouts we've been pegged back to 1-1 in similar circumstances.

Tonight was just another in a long list of games we've been needlessly submissive in and I can't see why Jose can't work out that it's not a successful tactic for this Utd side. How many times do we have to blow 1-0 leads before he changes something?

Maybe after another transfer window when he can bring in more of his own players we'll be capable of it but right now this lot can't.

The subs tonight were almost cliche Jose, take off the three players on the pitch that can run with the ball and relieve pressure by attacking and bring on 3 slow cautious "experienced" players that mean Celta can just pen us in even more.

The frustrating thing is I truly believe we're not that far away from being a proper side, he just needs to be a bit more positive and we'll be fine in Stockholm.

I agree with all of that. At the turn of the year I was convinced we were on the fast track to awesome, and I still believe we were largely good enough to have finnished top 4. And of all those home draws (that should've seen us at least 8 pts better off) the majority didn't annoy me at all. Frustrating, yeah, but as a fan whose first memory is of us losing the title in 91, and who grew up with the subsequent unprecedented success, an annoying but entertaining draw is inconsequential, and merely part and parcel of the journey. I follow England at tournaments FFS. Football for me isn't about bragging rights, it's about those glorious fleeting highs and random moments. It's that amazing goal in a game you lost. That world class move that almost was the best goal ever. That first bump of good coke when you're flagging. That sensation of coming up at a festival just as the tune drops. That 4am wank in the living room when no-ones about. It's all that, and meeting Chris Kamara in a favela.

Im fine with United not being the Godzilla of English football anymore, hoovering up trophies like a sleeve sponsored Sucubus. Us being a little bit shit for a few years doesn't bother me at all, especially as "being shit" by our standards apparently means being the current holders of 3 of the 4 available domestic trophies, and one game away from 1 of the 2 European ones*

Football for me is about looking forward to the weekend, be it on Sky, BT, a weird Arabic stream or Ceefax page 302. And from about November to Feb, this team brought all those sensations back.... which is what makes it so annoying that the last month or so has been such badger balls. We're good enough if we want to be. But we're too scared to risk it

* if this is what Man Utd in crisis is like, then what the feck does it feel like to support another team!?

 

[AshRK]

Although very frustrating performance but trust me when we win the final and are playing champions league next season, no one will remember how we knocked out celta Vigo.

Let the rivals hate on us while we are playing the final in Stockholm

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

What a bunch of whingers.

Just smash and grab this final and on to the summer transfer sagas.

The football has been pretty rough over the last month after a pretty fun run there. Jose had to hunker down and try to grind out results.

I'll enjoy the ride back to the top, no way was it going to be smooth, but United will get there as always.

 

[Mockney]

Yep, I alluded to that in an earlier post. This seemed like fearful "negative", unlike his pragmatic "negatives" from the past.

I think winning this is far too important to him (as it should be). And it's understandable if you look at his career, know who he is, and see where he sees himself now. If he pulls it off I'm sure you'll see an improvement next season.

Also, I don't think he'd have done this when he was managing you. Or at any other point in his career. Part of this fear is that he's (seemingly) finally at the club he's always dreamed of being (at least at this point of his career, and since he came here and started overtly idolising SAF) It's been patently obvious - from his constant Fergie fawning to his uncharacteristic contrition whenever he beat us - that he's wanted this job for ages. And now he's got it, he's suddenly scared of fecking it up. Which seems a tad mad considering he managed Madrid, who are the only club definitively "bigger" than us, and one with far more militant and demanding fans. But then again it's also a job that's widely accepted to be transient. One where 3 years engineering their only title in near a decade, whilst creating the base of a team that's gone on to be hugely successful, is considered at best under par for a Real boss, by many.

However here, where he dreams of being the post slump saviour, and grand successor to Fergie, he knows that fecking up so early would be seen as a globally notorious failure. Which is why winning the Europa is the ultimate saving grace of both his project and his ego. It makes complete sense that he'd be pragmatic about it. He's got a lot to lose.

It's just the extent of his pragmatism is ironically detrimental to his success at it. We've got just about enough attacking players to win most games. We don't have enough defensive ones to see them out. It should be simple logic to discern which approach is the most beneficial.

 

[Frank Grimes]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is how attractive is a Manchester United team, playing this defensive style in a European stage, to potential transfer targets? Can't imagine Griezmann et al would have been watching tonight thinking we're a club on the cusp of greatness again.

 

[Giggs86]

Who gives a shit if this is 'only' the EL, it felt like a proper European semi, with all the mandatory squeaky bum time that comes with it. Celta are a bunch of fanny tw*ts and we're lucky that bald cnut Gudetti is such a shit footballer.

Lets win this bastard cup now.

 

[el3mel]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is how attractive is a Manchester United team, playing this defensive style in a European stage, to potential transfer targets? Can't imagine Griezmann et al would have been watching tonight thinking we're a club on the cusp of greatness again.

It's not mentioned because it's not really a factor at all that determine such transfers. The players will come will be suiting what Jose wants to play with best season.

 

[Frank Grimes]

It's not mentioned because it's not really a factor at all that determine such transfers. The players will come will be suiting what Jose wants to play with best season.

That's assuming they don't have the choice of a club that are more alluring style wise and are further down the road in their development.

 

[Nakhon Phanom]

Not great but we are in the Final and that's what counts.Celta were the better side today and we could have had no complaints if they had won 3-1......what a miss by Guidetti with the last kick of the match !
I cant think of one United player who had an outstanding game.Bailly will be a big miss for the Final and I would be tempted to play Dave in goal.
But,hey,lets win this trophy and let Jose bring in a few decent signings in the summer.The current squad is functional but disjointed and this needs to be addressed.

 

[el3mel]

That's assuming they don't have the choice of a club that are more alluring style wise and are further down the road in their development.

Sure but when Jose contacts a player to come they would know what he wants from them and how they will play so it won't be a surprise from them. It's not like Jose is a new manager whose style is unknown to players we're interested in.

 

[NorthernAvengeR]

Thankfully the final isn't played at Old Trafford.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Sure but when Jose contacts a player to come they would know what he wants from them and how they will play so it won't be a surprise from them. It's not like Jose is a new manager whose style is unknown to players we're interested in.

I know it won't be a surprise, that's my point. They might prefer a more progressive style.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Thankfully the final isn't played at Old Trafford.

Hold Trafford.

 

[el3mel]

I know it won't be a surprise, that's my point. They might prefer a more progressive style.

If that was the case Jose wouldn't have been able to make a single deal with an attacking players in his career

Also, assume we're after, say, Griezmann, that guy is playing in even more ridiculously defensive team he won't complain much, I think Jose attacks more than Simeone anyway.

 

[Arruda]

Also, I don't think he'd have done this when he was managing you. Or at any other point in his career. Part of this fear is that he's (seemingly) finally at the club he's always dreamed of being (at least at this point of his career, and since he came here and started overtly idolising SAF) It's been patently obvious - from his constant Fergie fawning to his uncharacteristic contrition whenever he beat us - that he's wanted this job for ages. And now he's got it, he's suddenly scared of fecking it up. Which seems a tad mad considering he managed Madrid, who are the only club definitively "bigger" than us, and one with far more militant and demanding fans. But then again it's also a job that's widely accepted to be transient. One where 3 years engineering their only title in near a decade, whilst creating the base of a team that's gone on to be hugely successful, is considered at best under par for a Real boss, by many.

However here, where he dreams of being the post slump saviour, and grand successor to Fergie, he knows that fecking up so early would be seen as a globally notorious failure. Which is why winning the Europa is the ultimate saving grace of both his project and his ego. It makes complete sense that he'd be pragmatic about it. He's got a lot to lose.

It's just the extent of his pragmatism is ironically detrimental to his success at it. We've got just about enough attacking players to win most games. We don't have enough defensive ones to see them out. It should be simple logic to discern which approach is the most beneficial.

I agree that that may all play a significant part, but one thing you didn't mention, which I think may also be a big factor in his "fearfulness" is that Mourinho himself is at a personal (i.e., irrespective of United) crossroads in his career. He has just come from the only truly "poor" season of his life. Until here he was always winning or very closely challenging for wins. What was his worst league position ever until last year, third?

This is his second "poorest" season ever, and it's coming right after the first. Until here it has all been borderline perfect, at least as close to it as a managerial career can realistically get. He must feel a sense of urgency to get past this stage, and he would probably be feeling a relatively similar level of anxiety even at another top club that wasn't United. These next few seasons will determine his legacy too: That of a manager who was always at a top with a random blip here and there, or that of a manager that was at the top for a while and then saw his career turn average (for his incredibly high standards). He must dread to become a Wenger.

It's somewhat analogous to a scenario where Cristiano Ronaldo suddenly found himself out of WPOTY shortlists, struggling to hit 20 goals in a season, not challenging for honours, out of the CL or having to fear being benched for someone better. It would be a nightmare for him and he wouldn't rest until he was out of that slump.

 

[Frank Grimes]

If that was the case Jose wouldn't have been able to make a single deal with an attacking players in his career

Also, assume we're after, say, Griezmann, that guy is playing in even more ridiculously defensive team he won't complain much, I think Jose attacks more than Simeone anyway.

I'm not saying it would be the same for all players but could have an influence in some players decisions.

 

[el3mel]

I'm not saying it would be the same for all players but could have an influence in some players decisions.

I don't think so, you're just worrying too much Jose has signed many great offensive players in his career and no one was worrying about his style of play whatever it's.

Let's win this trophy first then we'll have all time to see what we're for in summer.

 

[criticalanalysis]

I don't mind fecking sitting deep and soaking pressure but can Mourinho coach more of a counter attacking game ffs?

 

[Shimo]

Interesting to hear Jose say that he wanted the players higher up but, because we had something to protect they kept dropping deeper than he would have liked. He talked about he wanted to bring on Martial or Mata but, then had to consider giving more support at the back because of how deep we were sitting. Some of it is down to him but, it's hard for the

That's a big part of the problem right now, there is not a proper leader out there to drag the team up, to get the them pushing for that second goal, giving whomever needs a bollocking when needlessly losing the ball or calming things down. And that's going to be next season too - who on the current squad can be counted on being the de-facto leader out there? Sure in Ferguson's last season we were maybe seen as an average team but goodness me - Rio, Vida, RVP, Rooney, Evra, Giggs - all of them could be counted on to make sure we didn't become all scared.

In that sense Ibra is a big miss and maybe in the summer Mourinho can start making sure someone like Pogba or Herrera takes on the mantle of making sure we don't put many if any performance where we become too scared to play like we are Man United.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is how attractive is a Manchester United team, playing this defensive style in a European stage, to potential transfer targets? Can't imagine Griezmann et al would have been watching tonight thinking we're a club on the cusp of greatness again.

This one takes the cake....

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Do the people that bitch about tonight, also post after the Chelsea win? I really have no clue.

 

[el3mel]

I don't mind fecking sitting deep and soaking pressure but can Mourinho coach more of a counter attacking game ffs?

He can't. Our players are just not good at it as they mispass and lose the ball a lot. The only player who seems to have a vision is Pogba, Mikhi is good but losses the ball a lot, so our attackers destroy any chance of building a counter.

Counters have never been just having pacey players upfront as some people believe. Our front row lacks vision heavily and can't make fast transition from defense to offense.

 

[Mockney]

I agree that that may all play a significant part, but one thing you didn't mention, which I think may also be a big factor in his "fearfulness" is that Mourinho himself is at a personal (i.e., irrespective of United) crossroads in his career. He has just come from the only truly "poor" season of his life. Until here he was always winning or very closely challenging for wins. What was his worst league position ever until last year, third?

This is his second "poorest" season ever, and it's coming right after the first. Until here it has all been borderline perfect, at least as close to it as a managerial career can realistically get. He must feel a sense of urgency to get past this stage, and he would probably be feeling a relatively similar level of anxiety even at another top club that wasn't United. These next few seasons will determine his legacy too: That of a manager who was always at a top with a random blip here and there, or that of a manager that was at the top for a while and then saw his career turn average (for his incredibly high standards). He must dread to become a Wenger.

It's somewhat analogous to a scenario where Cristiano Ronaldo suddenly found himself out of WPOTY shortlists, struggling to hit 20 goals in a season, not challenging for honours, out of the CL or having to fear being benched for someone better. It would be a nightmare for him and he wouldn't rest until he was out of that slump.

Ha! I wrote a whole paragraph about just that, but deleted it for fear of posting a rambling wall of text. So yeah, I agree. If he weren't our boss, I'd find it tragi-comical that Jose finally landed his dream job at the very same time not only Pep rocked up in the league, but also every other feted manager of note. This season has been like a hunger games of top managers. With cup games and European commitments being like handicaps (do they have handicaps in the Hunger Games? I'll be honest, I don't know shit about it. I watched one. Lenny Kravitz was on a train at one point. That probably has no relevance to anything, but good for Lenny Kravitz!) And all at a time when the game in general is shifting away from the style Jose spent the last decade mastering.

This is undoubtedly his managerial midlife crisis, and it's come at the worst possible time (inheriting a largely shit team he has to build from dot).. And yet I still have faith in him to work it out. If we stick with him, I'm pretty sure he'll win us the league within the next three years, and I'm confident he'll want to do it with good attacking football. If we win the Europa ugly, meh, it'll be a pretty good season**. If we lose. He can't have the same approach next year.

**As things stand, we currently hold 3 of the 4 available domestic titles, and are in the final of one of the two European ones. This is apparently Manchester United in a crisis period. I apologise profusely on behalf of my fellow glory hunters for how spoiled and ridiculous that sounds.

 

[SteveJ]

I just don't believe Jose has much faith in the quality of some United players, hence an ultra-defensive approach that he knows & acknowledges is not the way his bosses and supporters want us to play. Too many of our players pass backwards at the drop of a hat, lacking the skills or courage to take opponents on and drive forwards. Considering that I've been one of Jose's harshest critics on here in recent times, I'd gladly give him several years to sort this all out; for me, a possible two trophies in a debut season is bloody excellent, especially when fielding some of the timid and average players left over from the last few managerial reigns.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

I just don't believe Jose has much faith in the quality of some United players, hence an ultra-defensive approach that he knows & acknowledges is not the way his bosses and supporters want us to play. Too many of our players pass backwards at the drop of a hat, lacking the skills or courage to take opponents on and drive forwards. Considering that I've been one of Jose's harshest critics on here in recent times, I'd gladly give him several years to sort this all out; for me, a possible two trophies in a debut season is bloody excellent, especially when fielding some of the timid and average players left over from the last few managerial reigns.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[sashiko]

does anybody know what's behind the idea of getting to CL at any costs? BDSM may be? In Mou's place I'd hide away somewhere and train to be able to enter the first 4 in APL at least.