[Jonno]

He’s not being doing a great job for the best part of a year.

So even arguably the best manager of his generation is doing as good a job as Ole? Despite spending stacks more money and having substantially longer to build his team? Interesting.

 

[Feed Me]

So even arguably the best manager of his generation is doing as good a job as Ole? Despite spending stacks more money and having substantially longer to build his team? Interesting.

You’re comparing United against the 13th place team in the league. This is how much standards have been lowered.

 

[Maureen-yo]

He has played more than the games this season, hopefully you saw him defend v Palace, Spurs and Brighton? Plus he has been playing here last 6 seasons I am basing my view on him over these seasons not couple of games. The only game I thought he did well was against PSG where the team defended well overall but yesterday Chelsea did even try attacking and v Newcastle he didn't look very good at all.

Gladly this Shaw fetish will end when Telles gets up and running.

So you highlight the games when the whole team played and defended badly as justification the to single out Shaw?

 

[Forevergiggs1]

So even arguably the best manager of his generation is doing as good a job as Ole? Despite spending stacks more money and having substantially longer to build his team? Interesting.

Pep in this moment in time is failing so by your own argument Ole must be failing too. The season is still in it's early stages. Let's have this conversation around Xmas.

 

[Member 113277]

Quite simply should have been 433 or 442 not 5 at the back especially if you don’t play Telles.

and even more so with mctominay and Fred in front of them like we should be scared against chavski

one of Pogba or can de beek
Should def have played

he has to go On the offensive

way too conservative

we need to win games

On the other hand, after a disastrous start to the season, it was also very important to start to build some stability, confidence and not concede.]

The manager gets the big bucks to make these calls and has forgotten more about football than I'll ever learn, so I'm happy to go along with his choices. On a different day, we could have won the game, the more important thing IMO was we looked organised. Ole needs to put a string of league results together and this was a start.

 

[arthurka]

So you highlight the games when the whole team played and defended badly as justification the to single out Shaw?

As I said it's based on his whole career... This season has been terribly shitty.

 

[DSG]

This is why it’s so hard to come on the Caf. Really negative.

Huge improvements in defense, really didn’t give Chelsea a sniff. Werner, Havertz and Pulisic are a very good front 3.

Those of you who are expecting McT to become Pirlo overnight are dreaming. Don’t think you can play VDB there. Cavani hasn’t played since March, couldn’t start him. Martial suspended. Pogba is worthless defensively.

we still had some chances, couldn’t convert. I don’t blame Ole as much as you lot. FFS, I swear half the Caf would be calling for Zidane to be sacked if this was a Real forum.

 

[RedDevil@84]

4-2-3-1 (at least with what our players are doing) sucks. Pointless formation which seems to offer nothing. If we get individual moments of brilliance, we score and win. If we get individuals moments of brainf**ts, then we lose pathetically.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Werner, Havertz and Pulisic are a very good front 3.

On paper yes. On form meh. Think you are overplaying their awesomeness. I don't agree with giving Ole too much s**t for the Chelsea game, but the context is important. Their front 3 have not been lethal. They were there for the taking.

Same with Rashford, Martial, Cavani, Greenwood with Bruno, VdB. Pogba behind. We should be raking in the chances/goals game after game. But again that's on paper. On form, it works on and off.

 

[The Original]

If we win tomorrow I’m going to start feeling quietly confident about the rest of the season after that showing.

How's your confidence now?

 

[tenpoless]

This is why it’s so hard to come on the Caf. Really negative.

Huge improvements in defense, really didn’t give Chelsea a sniff. Werner, Havertz and Pulisic are a very good front 3.

Those of you who are expecting McT to become Pirlo overnight are dreaming. Don’t think you can play VDB there. Cavani hasn’t played since March, couldn’t start him. Martial suspended. Pogba is worthless defensively.

we still had some chances, couldn’t convert. I don’t blame Ole as much as you lot. FFS, I swear half the Caf would be calling for Zidane to be sacked if this was a Real forum.

You talk about Chelsea's players, McT and our defense.

But what about Daniel James? it's a weird decision to start him. I think that's what made some people upset and I could understand the frustration. It's a chance for us to build on confidence... not to watch James playing like that. Everybody knows he's been offering nothing up front. We had Cavani and vDB on the bench let that sink in.

 

[croadyman]

4-2-3-1 (at least with what our players are doing) sucks. Pointless formation which seems to offer nothing. If we get individual moments of brilliance, we score and win. If we get individuals moments of brainf**ts, then we lose pathetically.

Yeah this reliance on individual brilliance needs to stop and have to see some patterns of play rather than just counter attacking

 

[SilentWitness]

How's your confidence now?

with our first XI - very.

 

[Gasolin]

Yeah this reliance on individual brilliance needs to stop and have to see some patterns of play rather than just counter attacking

Again this useless moaning about pattern of play... what pattern of play do you see from the other top teams? What was the pattern of play of Chelsea? Please enlighten us with specifics and not empty words.

So for you when for the 1st attempt of Rashford, we have Fred and Scott get the ball back, then Bruno gets it into the middle and Mata then chooses Rashford when James is also running forward, that’s not a clear pattern? We are not sending the ball long, you’ve seen that right?

When United plays a 4-2-3-1, we play with players between lines and overlapping fullbacks. Because of this, we are in a good position to counterpress structurally. However, are we dominant physically from an individual perspective? No. But it’s individual issues only.

We will start showing something even better than now when Pogba and Matic can increase their physical intensity. But structurally? We are brilliant, Ole has created something great.

Competition is doing exactly that. Making sure those who are not picked do the necessary to get back into the team.

 

[Member 113277]

This is why it’s so hard to come on the Caf. Really negative.

Huge improvements in defense, really didn’t give Chelsea a sniff. Werner, Havertz and Pulisic are a very good front 3.

Those of you who are expecting McT to become Pirlo overnight are dreaming. Don’t think you can play VDB there. Cavani hasn’t played since March, couldn’t start him. Martial suspended. Pogba is worthless defensively.

we still had some chances, couldn’t convert. I don’t blame Ole as much as you lot. FFS, I swear half the Caf would be calling for Zidane to be sacked if this was a Real forum.

Great post.

 

[b20times]

I expected more after Ole telling us our boys can play and that we've got our form back. There was a lot of money on that pitch Saturday evening but you wouldn't have thought so.
Very poor showing from both sides really.

 

[Craig Ward]

I know there is so much negativity here and i'd like to add my 2 pence worth.

The premier league and champions league are different animals - we all know that.

So we won our last premier league game with 4-2-3-1 and battered PSG with a 3 at the back system.

Kinda put Ole in a tough spot with how to line up against Chelsea. What I liked about the PSG formation was how in control we were - we always looked dangerous and looked like scoring. Some superb performances too.

I always think you reward good form - your no better than your last game. Yes, you have to account for fatigue and match sharpness but I was disappointed with the fact we reverted formation. Telles and Tuanzebe the highlights of PSG - replaced by the same old in Maguire and Shaw.

Dan James - he was poor. But he's quickly becoming the scapegoat for every negative the team does. AWB cant cross? Must be Dan James fault. Rashford missed a sitter? Must be Dan James fault McTom/Fred cant pass the ball forward? Obviously Dan James fault. Etc etc

This needs to stop. Is he perfect? No. Is he learning? Absolutely. Do we actually play to any of his strengths at all? Absolutely not. He's a winger whose strength is running in behind and taking his man on. We dont play through balls and for some reason he's always too deep and playing the safe option (i'm assuming this is part confidence/part tactical)

I'm sick of all the hate for a young player who is clearly developing and learning. It's pretty vile to be honest.

So i think ultimately we threw the game. It was a poor performance. Midfield wasnt good enough, wide players weren't influential enough and our top man up front didnt put any chances away. That being said - credit where credit is due - we didnt give Chelsea a sniff either. Werner against Maguire petrified me before kick off but we limited them and made them look poor.

Another clean sheet - we didnt get battered. Seems to be our goal this season so i guess it's job done.

We miss Martial so much.

Donny is becoming a mystery - he's better than anyone we fielder in midfield up bar Fernandes. Strange

 

[Borys]

Dan James - he was poor. But he's quickly becoming the scapegoat for every negative the team does. AWB cant cross? Must be Dan James fault. Rashford missed a sitter? Must be Dan James fault McTom/Fred cant pass the ball forward? Obviously Dan James fault. Etc etc

This needs to stop. Is he perfect? No. Is he learning? Absolutely. Do we actually play to any of his strengths at all? Absolutely not. He's a winger whose strength is running in behind and taking his man on. We dont play through balls and for some reason he's always too deep and playing the safe option (i'm assuming this is part confidence/part tactical)

I'm sick of all the hate for a young player who is clearly developing and learning. It's pretty vile to be honest.

That's BS. Nobody is putting the whole blame on James, but he was worst player on the pitch. Shocking performance from him. And he definitely isn't progressing.

He had a couple chances to run at the defender, how did he do?

 

[theklr]

If Cavani was match fit James wouldnt have started , so its was just stop-gap. Same with Mata and Greenwood.

 

[Craig Ward]

That's BS. Nobody is putting the whole blame on James, but he was worst player on the pitch. Shocking performance from him. And he definitely isn't progressing.

He had a couple chances to run at the defender, how did he do?

I said he played poor and i addressed the fact he isn;t playing to his strengths. That being said, the team doesnt play through balls either so it kind of limits him.

He's in a bad rut at the moment

We need to back him instead of hating on him though. There's a good player in there

 

[Mihai]

My problem is the "draw is fine" approach. I don't recall such situations from the past. We were either fighting hard for a win, or just beaten by a better team.
Today was different, non ambitious. But I heard the conditions were Terrible and both managers just wanted to return without an injury.

We played well, created a couple of chances. We are full strength defensively and it shows, now attacking force is a different thing.

We've had several games were we played for a draw under SAF.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

We've had several games were we played for a draw under SAF.

The reality of the Fergie years was so amazing that I really don't understand why people feel the need to mythologise them like the poster you are replying to here is.

Comparing Ole's United to Fergie's United is fair enough, but comparing Ole's United to an idealised version of Fergie's United who were always great to watch, always set up to dominate possession etc. and rarely drew or lost games is unfair and inaccurate.

 

[Red00012]

Should have just started Pogba instead of James

 

[Denis' cuff]

2 teams recently leaking goals decided to tighten up, thus cancelling each other out. Borefest. It happens.

No need to shit the bed after what, on the whole was a good week.

 

[Mickson]

The only two Chelsea players who had an average position on United's half was Pulisic and Werner, and people are talking about our defense like we met peak Barcelona. THEY DIDN'T ATTACK. AT ALL. Ole is really, really scared. So scared. And he smiled so hard at the end, you could just see how happy he was with himself. Such a poor standard for Manchester United, and that's why he never will win anything of note here. Still going with his 4-2-3-1, you do wonder how competent he really is.

 

[croadyman]

Again this useless moaning about pattern of play... what pattern of play do you see from the other top teams? What was the pattern of play of Chelsea? Please enlighten us with specifics and not empty words.

So for you when for the 1st attempt of Rashford, we have Fred and Scott get the ball back, then Bruno gets it into the middle and Mata then chooses Rashford when James is also running forward, that’s not a clear pattern? We are not sending the ball long, you’ve seen that right?

When United plays a 4-2-3-1, we play with players between lines and overlapping fullbacks. Because of this, we are in a good position to counterpress structurally. However, are we dominant physically from an individual perspective? No. But it’s individual issues only.

We will start showing something even better than now when Pogba and Matic can increase their physical intensity. But structurally? We are brilliant, Ole has created something great.

Competition is doing exactly that. Making sure those who are not picked do the necessary to get back into the team.

I just think we should be better to watch considering the midfield and forward options that we have. One of my biggest frustrations is we haven't got the balance right of a mobile holding player in there and a top passer as well which think would improve the quality of play more.

I also think we would look better if we had someone who could play naturally on the right side,obviously we thought Sancho could provide that but if we really wanted that Diallo instead then should have bought him in time to get work permit sorted for the start of the season.

Unfortunately we didn't and are having to shoehorn players into that position like Mata or Greenwood.

Personally I think it's too much pressure on Amad and would have preferred we bought someone a bit more experienced in that area as well.

 

[Bestietom]

Try a 4-4-2 . Can't do any harm

----------------------De Gea---------

AWB-----Tuanzebe-----Maguire.......Telles

--------------------------Fred------------------
-------VdB------------Bruno------------Pogba

---------------Martial-------------Rashford

 

[Borys]

I said he played poor and i addressed the fact he isn;t playing to his strengths. That being said, the team doesnt play through balls either so it kind of limits him.

He's in a bad rut at the moment

We need to back him instead of hating on him though. There's a good player in there

You said everyone is blaming him for others mistake, which I called BS. He's in bad form and should be nowhere near first team, playing him in big games definitely won't help him.

We've had several games were we played for a draw under SAF.

True, "several" being key word.

That said, I do understand why we Ole wanted to avoid injuries. Difficult conditions to play.

 

[Sea-Cow]

Has there been any discussion about the revert back to a formation where we are struggling? Against PSG with the 3 CBs we looked both compact defensively and were able to keep possession well at times. I was hoping we might lean into it and embrace it going forward.

Instead it was back to the same formation where we struggle to create anything offensively that doesn't come from a quick break. Lets just switch the ball out to AWB and hope that he can beat his man one v one, or we can then try to play cute little flicks and tricks on the left hand side with three or four dudes all standing around. If one of those flicks works and someone gets down the line on the left, it might look dangerous for a second, until you realize there is no one in the box except for a few center backs waiting to casually clear it.

 

[Sea-Cow]

I think Ole should find a system and stick to it. We should also use the same system at under 23 level. This is how ajax operate and why players find it easy to move from the youth to the first team.
Personally I prefer 3 4 3
if we play this then
De Gea ( Henderson)
Tuanzebe ( Lindelof) Lindelof(Maguire)) Shaw (Maquire)
Williams (AWB) Donny (Pogba) Fred (Mac) Telles (Fred)
Bruno (Mata)
Martial (Cavani) Rashford (Mason)

Just be consistent with the system and the everyone knows exactly what is expected of them.
The constant changing depending on the opposition cant be helping to get consistency.
Of course we need to be flexible and have a plan B. but is during the course of a game, not as a game plan

I agree with your overall point, but in no world should Williams be starting over AWB, even as a wingback. I like Williams and appreciate his effort and his fight, but AWB is the far superior player.

Same with your choice of a back three. And I am against any formation including Martial, until he shows he can have a shot on goal.

But I agree with the thesis of -- pick a formation and stick with it. Drill it into their heads, including the youth sides.

We played with 3 at the back at home to City last year in the 2-0 win and we were very good. We were also good against PSG last week with 3 at the back. Lets give it a run of a few months and see what happens. I am not saying we will go on an undefeated streak and score a bucketful of goals every week, but lets just see.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Try a 4-4-2 . Can't do any harm

----------------------De Gea---------

AWB-----Tuanzebe-----Maguire.......Telles

--------------------------Fred------------------
-------VdB------------Bruno------------Pogba

---------------Martial-------------Rashford

I prefer this setup as well, maybe Shaw instead of Telles.
Key is a fit Tuanzebe, we need a pacy CB to partner Maguire and Bailly cannot be trusted.
Playing Mata, James, Fred and McTominay in the same team is mental.

 

[Green_Red]

Happy to not have lost to Chelsea this early on but the points may have been valuable towards the end of the season. Let's see how close us and Chelsea are with 6 games left to play, 2 points might be extremely valuable then. Still, we didn't lose.

 

[Mr PG]

I will never forgive/accept Ole playing Mata / McTominay ahead of VDB and Danny James (championship level) ahead of Greenwood this game. Imagine a Bayern Munich/ PSG/ Real Madrid Manager pulled that crap. Not acceptable.

Shaw, Danny James don't belong anywhere near this team either if Ole wants to keep his job.

 

[Shimo]

I will never forgive/accept Ole playing Mata / McTominay ahead of VDB and Danny James (championship level) ahead of Greenwood this game. Imagine a Bayern Munich/ PSG/ Real Madrid Manager pulled that crap. Not acceptable.

Shaw, Danny James don't belong anywhere near this team either if Ole wants to keep his job.

Am not still convinced by Ole still but, come on. Greenwood was out with an injury, so unless you know for sure he was fully fit to start - hard to criticize Ole for not starting him or Cavani. Mata was there on merit for the performances so far. Taking the McTomminay or Fred spot from the start was a tactical choice to help with keeping us solid against a quality attacking set of players - it's not the most unforgivable thing in that many managers do it in big games, go for a bit more solidity to start and then go for it after, Sir Alex went conservative many a time in big games .

 

[croadyman]

Am not still convinced by Ole still but, come on. Greenwood was out with an injury, so unless you know for sure he was fully fit to start - hard to criticize Ole for not starting him or Cavani. Mata was there on merit for the performances so far. Taking the McTomminay or Fred spot from the start was a tactical choice to help with keeping us solid against a quality attacking set of players - it's not the most unforgivable thing in that many managers do it in big games, go for a bit more solidity to start and then go for it after, Sir Alex went conservative many a time in big games .

Just wish Ole saw the merits of trying to sign a proper mobile DM this summer rather than just thinking that McTominay & Fred is the answer

 

[Craig Ward]

You said everyone is blaming him for others mistake, which I called BS. He's in bad form and should be nowhere near first team, playing him in big games definitely won't help him.


True, "several" being key word.

That said, I do understand why we Ole wanted to avoid injuries. Difficult conditions to play.

Read through the forum and performance threads - he's being scapegoated.

Agree he's in bad form. What we have to acknowledge is there is many factors which contribute to that - it's not as black and white as people are making out.

Just slating him and calling him not good enough is lame and poor. What else could Ole do? Martial banned, Greenwood not match fit, Cavani not match fit, Pellistri only ready for reserves....... Already playing Mata who is past his best by some years.

Argument he could have played Donny but he's not a wide forward so i dont see the logic there.

This is the exact reason Ole wanted Sancho - to provide competition and quality along the front 3 forward positions. We are paying the price for the boards incompetence and putting the blame in the wrong place

 

[crossy1686]

The only two Chelsea players who had an average position on United's half was Pulisic and Werner, and people are talking about our defense like we met peak Barcelona. THEY DIDN'T ATTACK. AT ALL. Ole is really, really scared. So scared. And he smiled so hard at the end, you could just see how happy he was with himself. Such a poor standard for Manchester United, and that's why he never will win anything of note here. Still going with his 4-2-3-1, you do wonder how competent he really is.

This might be the worst take on the forum...

 

[Tom Cato]

You talk about Chelsea's players, McT and our defense.

But what about Daniel James? it's a weird decision to start him. I think that's what made some people upset and I could understand the frustration. It's a chance for us to build on confidence... not to watch James playing like that. Everybody knows he's been offering nothing up front. We had Cavani and vDB on the bench let that sink in.

The plan was to hit Chelsea on the break. Ole, like 100% of Caf's posters surely understand that Chelsea bought some of the best talents in world football this summer, and going on a very offensive tactic against a team that can quite possibly end you if your centerbacks arent fast enough. We put on the team that was best suited to null out Chelsea's very, very good offensive playters.

And quite frankly it worked very well.

When we started Pogba last at home we lost 6-1 v Tottenham. VDB is not a CDM, Fred plays very well with McTominay so no reason to break them up after the PSG game, and Bruno always plays. So VDB goes on the bench, Cavani has hardly played football in forever and was never going to start regardless.

We didn't win the game which was dissapointing. But we could have lost the game with a different team on. Or won 5-0. We just can't know that.

We didn't lose. We're 1W 1D in a month that has us playing Arsenal and Leipzig this week.

We're 3-1-1 in the last 5.

Just chill the feck out.

 

[Tom Cato]

The only two Chelsea players who had an average position on United's half was Pulisic and Werner, and people are talking about our defense like we met peak Barcelona. THEY DIDN'T ATTACK. AT ALL. Ole is really, really scared. So scared. And he smiled so hard at the end, you could just see how happy he was with himself. Such a poor standard for Manchester United, and that's why he never will win anything of note here. Still going with his 4-2-3-1, you do wonder how competent he really is.

https://www.google.com/search?q=man...TF-8#sie=m;/g/11m7scxsqn;2;/m/0c1q0;dt;fp;1;;

 

[El Zoido]

Just wish Ole saw the merits of trying to sign a proper mobile DM this summer rather than just thinking that McTominay & Fred is the answer

Matic, Fred, and McTominay can all play as DM. You can argue their quality all day but we have limited finances and a board who takes three months per deal. We rightly focused on other areas - and still struggled. It’s going to take time to get really quality players in every position, this club is never going to do a Chelsea and replace half the squad in one window. I really think this squad is starting to look good, but we have to accept it’s going to take time.