The tactics didn't lose you the game but they certainly stifled you in being able to get something from it. A change of tactics or formation could certainly have increased the volume or types of chances you were creating to break us down and grab a goal.
PL L FA Premier League
Manchester United 0:1 Everton
Post-match discussion
Mon, 24 November 2025
So the tactics were fine then?
We didn't lose because someone flubbed a throw-in. We lost because the manager set the team up with five defenders at home against Everton and never segued into an attacking plan even when we were down a goal, they were down a man and they clearly made no attempt to keep threatening us. It is the single greatest case of incompetence that I have ever seen in a lifetime of watching PL football.
I ask again. Which tactical, coaching or formation hand book has you attempting a throw in whilst STILL standing in the playing part of the pitch? If you can answer that first. Then we can discuss the state of tactics. Because as far as I know if you can't execute a thing as basic as a throw in. Tactical instruction of any sort will be beyond you. So trying to blame tactics is up there with speaking English properly for years then as an adult blaming your primary school teacher because you carelessly said 'I goned to the store" in a sentence during an oral interview.....
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We lost PRECISELY because the players had the attitude and mentality to fluff a thing as basically simple as a throw in. If you are doing that you will not execute ANY set up, formation nor tactical instruction in a existence. It honestly isn't hard to grasp as a concept.
There’s been some real ups and downs this season but I think this has been a close low to when we played Grimsby.
We get gifted by being a man up in the early minutes of the match and not only fail to capitalise on it, we even go a goal down and lose the match, that’s not acceptable.
Nothing seemed to change tactically after the red card, I thought maybe we would stretch the pitch, get more aggressive with the extra space? No it didn’t happen, fair enough, maybe RA will make some half time subs to get some more attack minded players on the pitch? Not that either.
5 minutes into the second half I started to feel like we weren’t even going to get a draw let alone a win.
We get gifted by being a man up in the early minutes of the match and not only fail to capitalise on it, we even go a goal down and lose the match, that’s not acceptable.
Nothing seemed to change tactically after the red card, I thought maybe we would stretch the pitch, get more aggressive with the extra space? No it didn’t happen, fair enough, maybe RA will make some half time subs to get some more attack minded players on the pitch? Not that either.
5 minutes into the second half I started to feel like we weren’t even going to get a draw let alone a win.
These are two of the worst posts I have ever read on here. A player having a one-off brain fade while taking a throw in obviously doesn't have any bearing on their ability, or otherwise, to follow tactical instructions.
They're not saying the throw in cost us the match, but that it was symptomatic of our teams wider negligence, complacency and lack of focus.
The throw in specifically was a "one-off brain fade", but the problem is how many one off brain fades we have in matches.
Who'd have thought the mini run of form that lasted all of 3 games was maybe not enough to conclusively say he has turned everything around and it's all starting to click like people have been parroting?
Maz for Mount was like for like was it?
It still comes back to the manager and his coaching team. If their methods leave the players so unfocused and disorganized that they don't know where they are on the pitch, it's a structural issue. These players aren't so naturally stupid or clumsy that failing to carry out a throw-in correctly is the expectation. They also aren't choosing to feck up because they don't want to win.
When players do far worse than they've proven capable of before, and there's no other readily apparent reason for it, the manager is the one who should be questioned. Are they not training properly? Are they given confusing instructions that leave them distracted during games? Are they constantly stressed by having to compensate for poor tactics?
The answer is certainly not that they're too unintelligent to understand how a throw-in is meant to be taken, or so bereft of basic football skills that they can't pull it off.
When players do far worse than they've proven capable of before, and there's no other readily apparent reason for it, the manager is the one who should be questioned. Are they not training properly? Are they given confusing instructions that leave them distracted during games? Are they constantly stressed by having to compensate for poor tactics?
The answer is certainly not that they're too unintelligent to understand how a throw-in is meant to be taken, or so bereft of basic football skills that they can't pull it off.
I agree. The problem is that people either criticize the manager or the players. But we keep changing the players then level the exact same criticisms at the next group. We can accept two things at once. Firstly, our team needs to be improved (but it should still be very capable of beating Everton at home, even before going down to 10 men). Secondly, at the same time, the manager can not be good enough, as I am sure everyone can now agree proved to be the case with ETH, and I would argue has been clear for quite some time with Amorim. Indeed, there is a good reason to see both things as true and related, as they both relate to the decision making of the football management structure at the club. We know it was terrible under the Glazers, and its only marginally better now under INEOS, with the danger we will soon think its worth if they sit on their hands.
Yesterday just felt like a proper reality check for me.
The manager looked clueless, our players looked clueless. So many horrific performances and so little depth when we've injuries. Zirkzee and Mainoo aren't good enough. Dalot put onto the left was extremely disappointing, it's like he was just occupying space Shaw should have been in given he's a left footer and he just turned back each time. I'd have loved to see Martinez given the last 20 with Shaw as LWB instead given we had them pinned back with 10 men. De Ligt solid, Yoro poor. Amad/Mbeumo tried but didn't get much luck and felt like they were shattered in the latter parts. Mazraoui isn't a wing back. It was a typical game where we'd have been rescued by Maguire late on and it'd have papered over the cracks. So frustrating.
The manager looked clueless, our players looked clueless. So many horrific performances and so little depth when we've injuries. Zirkzee and Mainoo aren't good enough. Dalot put onto the left was extremely disappointing, it's like he was just occupying space Shaw should have been in given he's a left footer and he just turned back each time. I'd have loved to see Martinez given the last 20 with Shaw as LWB instead given we had them pinned back with 10 men. De Ligt solid, Yoro poor. Amad/Mbeumo tried but didn't get much luck and felt like they were shattered in the latter parts. Mazraoui isn't a wing back. It was a typical game where we'd have been rescued by Maguire late on and it'd have papered over the cracks. So frustrating.
Credit to cafe nerds for fitting a Simpsons AND Futurama reference into the first page of this thread!
Your question presupposes that one throw in was the reason we didn't win the match. In what wya did that one incident stop us from scoring a goal against ten men?
Can't help but feel we should have risked Cunha if he was removed on "precautionary" basis, or at least has him on bench. I'm sure him, mount and Mbuemo would have been better than whatever Zirkzee offers.
Didn’t Moyes sack the backroom staff?
Fellaini was the Plan A option.
I acknowledge I was wrong to describe Moyes as mediocre, but please let us not big him up into a manager he has never been.
By backroom staff I mean Ed Woodward etc., who Moyes didn't hire.
10 men Everton at home and with a chance to go top5 in the league..
Then they perform like that. What's wrong with this team seriously. So sick of it
Then they perform like that. What's wrong with this team seriously. So sick of it
You need to do a lot more reading of the caf then to be fair.
While you're focusing on the point about the throw in, which in fairness the posts you were replying to were highlighting, I think you're missing the underlying point, which is a good one; you can't "tactical instructions" your way out of players who simply aren't good enough, or are lacking the required mentality.
So many of the players looked nervous from the very start, Shaw and Yoro were great examples, both looked terrified of making a mistake on the ball so both took far too long to do anything with it. Then there's also the lack of quality in our team, Dalot and Dorgu were given free reign on the left because Everton knew our only real threat was from the right hand side in Mbeumo (and Amad when he moved to RWB).
If it was a head injury, you don't take chances with them
I don't post in here very often but feel compelled to after last night's result!
I agree with the other posters that have said last night was one of the most angry I've been at a United performance in quite some time. Abject is a word that's been used a few times, and I think that fits perfectly. It seemed we went into the game - much like most of the supporters, to be fair - with the attitude that this was a nailed on win. And they definitely performed that way from the get-go. They didn't have the intensity needed to win the game, they were devoid of ideas and far, far too many times they just passed the ball sideways to someone else in the hope they'd have the creativity to make a difference. But none of them did. Collectively they let each other down, and the manager didn't give them the best opportunity to win the game.
Credit to Everton - they were on it from the first whistle. They were the better team before the red card and even better after it. They did exactly what they needed to do - they absorbed what little attacking threat we offered and pushed us back into our own half to start again. Over and over without any real danger of conceding. Thoroughly deserved the three points. We could still be playing now and not have scored.
Amorim shoulders the responsibility for not adapting the team to the red card. Deciding to keep three at the back with a deep-lying midfielder was criminal. When what he should've done was change it immediately to be on the offensive. He has to be more dynamic and cut-throat than that if he wants to take this team forward. Equally, the players shoulder the responsibility for not having the intensity or creativity to make a difference. Bruno is wasted in this formation, he's better playing off the front where he can actually influence the game. Too many times players looked to him to influence the game last night, but he just wasn't in a position to do it. Zirkzee had a real opportunity to show what he can do and that he can be relied on; but sadly he just wasn't up to it. Having Shaw and Dalot on the same side of the pitch (or even on the pitch at all) made absolutely no sense whatsoever. They offered nothing (again).
Two of your biggest rivals lose their matches at the weekend and you're level on points with one of them before you've kicked a ball; a win puts you a point behind the other one. You're at home under the lights and coming off the back of a decent run of results domestically and some solid performances during the international break. I'm not sure how much more motivation you need as a United player or manager to go out and get the three points. Pile some more pressure on Slot and the rhetoric that his job is at risk; close the gap to City and Chelsea and get yourselves in the mix for the European places going into the festive period. But it wasn't enough to motivate them, and I think that's what frustrates me more than anything. They should be running through brick walls to gain the advantage on Liverpool and close the gap on City, but they just didn't want it.
Embarrassing and frustrating.
I agree with the other posters that have said last night was one of the most angry I've been at a United performance in quite some time. Abject is a word that's been used a few times, and I think that fits perfectly. It seemed we went into the game - much like most of the supporters, to be fair - with the attitude that this was a nailed on win. And they definitely performed that way from the get-go. They didn't have the intensity needed to win the game, they were devoid of ideas and far, far too many times they just passed the ball sideways to someone else in the hope they'd have the creativity to make a difference. But none of them did. Collectively they let each other down, and the manager didn't give them the best opportunity to win the game.
Credit to Everton - they were on it from the first whistle. They were the better team before the red card and even better after it. They did exactly what they needed to do - they absorbed what little attacking threat we offered and pushed us back into our own half to start again. Over and over without any real danger of conceding. Thoroughly deserved the three points. We could still be playing now and not have scored.
Amorim shoulders the responsibility for not adapting the team to the red card. Deciding to keep three at the back with a deep-lying midfielder was criminal. When what he should've done was change it immediately to be on the offensive. He has to be more dynamic and cut-throat than that if he wants to take this team forward. Equally, the players shoulder the responsibility for not having the intensity or creativity to make a difference. Bruno is wasted in this formation, he's better playing off the front where he can actually influence the game. Too many times players looked to him to influence the game last night, but he just wasn't in a position to do it. Zirkzee had a real opportunity to show what he can do and that he can be relied on; but sadly he just wasn't up to it. Having Shaw and Dalot on the same side of the pitch (or even on the pitch at all) made absolutely no sense whatsoever. They offered nothing (again).
Two of your biggest rivals lose their matches at the weekend and you're level on points with one of them before you've kicked a ball; a win puts you a point behind the other one. You're at home under the lights and coming off the back of a decent run of results domestically and some solid performances during the international break. I'm not sure how much more motivation you need as a United player or manager to go out and get the three points. Pile some more pressure on Slot and the rhetoric that his job is at risk; close the gap to City and Chelsea and get yourselves in the mix for the European places going into the festive period. But it wasn't enough to motivate them, and I think that's what frustrates me more than anything. They should be running through brick walls to gain the advantage on Liverpool and close the gap on City, but they just didn't want it.
Embarrassing and frustrating.
Wasn't hard to see coming for anyone who watches us with an even semi critical outlook. We'll nick results against teams that leave space in behind, essentially allowing us to take advantage of the one thing we usually do consistently, which is hoofing the ball forward quickly.
We've played three teams in a row that aren't as offensive and low and behold, we've won none of them.
I think we're maybe one win better off than we were last year around this time and in much the same position in the league, so nothing has really changed despite changing a few players.
We didnt lose because of a foul throw. Thats a cherry on top.
We lost because our players couldnt shoot properly, didnt make good decisions when they got the ball in the final third and we always had less than 6 players getting into the box while our opponents had a goalkeeper, 4 defenders and a midfielder getting into their box to defend
For some reason we kept 3 CBs, a defensive midfielder and fullbacks playing in the wide roles (Dalot came on). Mainoo came on and sat as a DM - we'd deployed him as a false 9 before, or a #10 and he barely approached the box. He was sat outside the box passing the ball around between the players who would eventually throw the ball into the box for our outnumbered 3 players getting in the box.
Our CBs remained in defensive positions and struggled to find passes with any pace or tempo and struggled to keep the ball under control at times
Our tactics didnt make sense, certainly didnt suit having a man advantage and few attacking players to deal with, didnt help the attackers break through a sea of players in their own box and those attackers looked like they hadnt practiced shooting or how to create chances together forming relationships and knowing what each other wants. Everton were constantly the ones receiving the ball from them. Some of it is clearly on the players, but a lot of it is also on the tactics
This is spot on. For me, I think senior players in the dressing room exert too much influence on the culture at the club more generally. By all accounts Bruno absolutely owns the place and Shaw is very influential too. Both have needed to go for some time in my eyes. As have Dalot, Maguire, Casemiro and others. The clearout last summer was a start. But we absolutely didn't get out all the bad eggs. Disclaimer - I know Maguire and Casemiro aren't bad eggs but they still need to go. Some serious spending needs to happen in the summer and whoever comes in to replace Amorim needs to learn from the mistakes of the past.
Right, but didn't Moyes sack, or technically order the firing of, the assistant coaches who served under Sir Alex Ferguson, arguably the greatest manager in the history of all sports and who won multiple PL and CL trophies?
The point is that Moyes took a sledgehammer to an organization which had just won a PL trophy, whose squad undeniably needed some refreshing...but Fellaini was in no way a freshening up of the squad. The panic buy of Fellaini fundamentally upset the chemistry of the squad by becoming the long ball target man. As a desperate roll of the dice in stoppage time, bringing on Fellaini was a fine option coming off the bench, but Moyes relied on him as a regular starter to serve in a role that he was wholly incapable of serving.
I know we've probably had worst results but that's the lowest I've felt supporting us. As in not seeing a bright future. It's such a mess.
Your initial point made it sound like Moyes wanted to go for Fellaini as option A, which isn't the case.
Yet another poster who CAN'T get a blantantly obvious point. .... It was the symptom of foundation of the whole disease with the playing staff last night. Not just an extra perk!!
Rather we lost because footballing basics were beyond the attitude and mentality of our players last night. Starting with things that should be like breathing to a footballer. Knowing where to stand for a throw in, passing a ball directly to a team mate with purpose, plus to a spare man when a man up. Ability to shoot/head accurately. Plus basic intensity.
ALL of it is on the players. The same freaking players have played the EXACT system and structure for a month (about 4 games) with cbs advancing deep into midfield. CBS driving forwards with the ball. Wingbacks pushed high interchanging with the wide forwards. Pressing and hunting the ball systemtically and with intensity. Blistering first half starts. Same damned players. Creating chances and attacking.
Trying to then pin that insipid execution of the self same tactics on instruction is deriliction of intelligence. The coaching staff aren't mad enough to show up and chose to "instruct" them to play a rigid, slow build up, press less, intensity less execution, playing keep ball for the sake of keep ball for this one game from minute 1 till the end of time. That's effing horse shit!
I'm tired of people trying do desperately pretend Everton & Moyes pulled some sort of special tactical stunt that "baffled " our coaching staff and 'they were too stupid" to respond. By now most of y'all should be able to tell the difference between players literally not doing the basic of their damned jobs and coaching instruction failing.
What, I didn’t spot them?
Nobody said Moyes did anything in the post you replied to. It was Amorim's tactics that were poor and defending them marks you as such
I am genuinely curious to understand your perspective. Why do we even have managers, lets alone pay them millions, if when it goes wrong 'all of it is on the players'? Does that also apply when we win, or is it just winning where we see the manager's input? A fundamental and indeed probably the most basic job of a manager is to motivate the players. if he can't do that he has utterly failed. On that basis I assume we agree that Amorim is done?
The tactics had no impact. The players were playing so stupidly we could have switched to 2-3-5 and would still have not been able to put enough men in the box nor put Everton's 10 men under pressure. They passed the ball slow. Ambled when given acres of space with it. Made no runs off the ball just stood and passed to each other . Run repeatedly into blind alleys over acres of space. Missed the target with nigh every attempt. Failed to press when Everton had the ball directly leading to their first half wonder goal. The list of insipidity is endless.
There was zero intensity, zero concentration and zero purpose. Things that are 100% incompatible with ANY tactics. I will forever insist if EVERTON had actually played well rather than do the bare minimum. They'd easily have won 2-3 with those 10 men.
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He wanted Fellaini early on, hesitated for whatever reason and missed a deadline for his release clause fee, and then end after that deadline passed, went all in on Fellaini for a higher amount than whatever the fixed fee was.
Yes we all know he wanted Fabregas above all, but everyone on the planet knew that Fabregas had no interest in going to United, no matter what Moyes claimed a decade later. Moyes has argued that needed more time, which is a convenient argument for him or anyone who gets sacked to make, but the truth is that he mismanaged his first transfer window, his man management was abysmal -- someone referred to Jagielka yesterday, which was hilarious to read -- and his tactics were laughable. There was nothing about his tenure that justifies him arguing now, as he does from time to time, that he simply needed more time. More time to do what, bring in more dinosaurs like Fellaini?
In Moyes's defense, following Sir Alex is a very tough tough task. But I very distinctly recall the fanbase understanding that the new manager needed time and that the squad was aging, but what we needed to see were green shoots of progress, some kind of new foundation being built for success in 2-3 years. But in fact there was nothing to cling to match after match of woeful performances that were highlighted by predictable tactics...which, incredibly, is what we are seeing at Old Trafford now under Amorim.
My stance is I can't defend nor critique tactics that were NEVER in play in the first place. Because the players were NEVER at the races mentally nor attitude wise from start to finish of play. I did not see a single tactic nor instruction they were executing.
Whilst you lot blaming tactics are literally attempting to imply Everton tactics "confounded" our coaching staff so that they were "too brain dead + stubborn" to adjust and respond. Because you ACTUALLY believe the players were carrying out the coaching staff instructions to the letter. Hence your "beffudlement" at their "continued use" all game.
It's abundantly clear which stance is more preposterous.
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It's so weird to assume that no amount of coaching, tactics, and instructions by ANY manager (by extrapolating from a manager that has United finished in bottom half last season, with 30+ points in 30+ games so far), wouldn't get United a better result against 10 men Everton, playing at home.
It's an utterly bizarre thinking. It shouldn't be a battle anyone should die for.
What's actually weird is to assume rather that ANYONE has chosen such a battle let alone had such thinking.
If it's one or two players having a day off, it could be personal; but if it's almost the whole squad, it's all down to the manager.
Very well said. His stubbornness to maintain a back 5 against 10 men was mind boggling. Pure incompetence.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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29%
Amad Diallo
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8%
Senne Lammens
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7%
Mason Mount
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6%
Bryan Mbeumo
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6%
Bruno Fernandes
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3%
Joshua Zirkzee
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2%
Casemiro
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1%
Luke Shaw
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1%
Kobbie Mainoo
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1%
Noussair Mazraoui
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1%
Leny Yoro
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1%
Patrick Dorgu
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 221 ratings.
Score Predictions
151,9,11
- Man Utd win
- Everton win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 28% Man Utd 2:0 Everton
- 25% Man Utd 2:1 Everton
- 14% Man Utd 3:1 Everton
- 11% Man Utd 3:0 Everton
- 4% Man Utd 1:0 Everton
- 4% Man Utd 1:1 Everton
- 3% Man Utd 1:2 Everton
- 2% Man Utd 3:2 Everton
- 2% Man Utd 4:1 Everton
- 2% Man Utd 2:2 Everton
- 2% Man Utd 4:0 Everton
- 1% Man Utd 0:0 Everton
- 1% Man Utd 1:3 Everton
- 1% Man Utd 0:1 Everton
- 1% Man Utd 0:2 Everton
- 1% Man Utd 0:5 Everton
- 1% Man Utd 4:2 Everton
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Mason Mount
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replaced by Diogo Dalot
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replaced by Kobbie Mainoo
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