[Blake's 7]

I really wanted it to work for Amorin, but:

He's too stuborn to change his tactics, ever. Basically why do we employ him on a multi year contract? Surely one week of, this is the way we are going to play - forevermore, irrespective of the game situation, repeat, repeat, repeat, would have sufficed. Then someone, on much lower wages, could lead the pre-match team talk, using Ruben's prepared template, make like for like subs as required and not vary one inch from the script.
He is literally dialling in a performance as our manager and taking every one for fools.
Yes the players aren't performing to the standards expected at United, but there are some good players in the squad (we've also let others go who could do better than their replacements). Overall, recruitment has been poor and set us back massively with little improvement on squad quality.
Sadly I don't see this ending well.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

If it's one or two players having a day off, it could be personal; but if it's almost the whole squad, it's all down to the manager.

When 11 plus players fail to do things so basic that it should be like breathing to a pro footballer it is 100% on them. Similar to what the late great Clough once said. Players CAN Lose you games.

 

[Waynne]

I don't post in here very often but feel compelled to after last night's result!

I agree with the other posters that have said last night was one of the most angry I've been at a United performance in quite some time.

Same here. Pissed me off so much I turned off the TV midway through the second half which I very seldom do watching this team.
We couldn't fecking buy a goal against 10 men.

 

[GueRed]

that first half was an absolute disgrace

 

[Denis' cuff]

It baffles me how most posts on here polarise everything. It’s not an argument about incompetent managing or players… it can be both.

Amorim: I couldn’t help but be reminded of an almost identical situation when Nani was sent off vs RM and Jose’s animated, immediate response after his team had been outplayed by United. He changed the game. Amorim did nothing. The difference could not have been more stark as Fergie did nothing, apart from express his dismay.

Players: by and large, to quote GN, ambled throughout. Not just Shaw. They simply weren’t up for it when a golden opportunity was there to show progress. I said before the game this was a looming banana skin because Everton always put in an effort against us. Neither players nor coach anticipated it. Apart from Amad, MDL and Mount, when he eventually came on, were the only players who did justice to themselves. Mainoo was a slight improvement and Mbueno, for once was off colour.

It alarms me to see Amorim sit placidly by, as players amble viz: vs Spurs in the final just one instance where he should be up galvanising and shifting said players around.

All very disappointing.

Edit: I switched on a good few minutes into the game and right away, even before the red card, thought I was seeing a different team

 

[Oranges038]

Same here. Pissed me off so much I turned off the TV midway through the second half which I very seldom do watching this team.
We couldn't fecking buy a goal against 10 men.

Reminded me if that loss to Sheffield Utd a few years ago, zero intensity or fight or anyone willing to try and do anything to push the team on other than play like they were seeing out a 4-0 win in a pre season friendly.

Totally unacceptable.

 

[BuzzKillington]

that first half was an absolute disgrace

The second was probably worse.

—————

I’ve started to calm down a little now. As bafflingly awful as that was last night, it was only a month ago that I was thinking about how much I was enjoying football again.

He really needs to be winning against Palace though, and do it convincingly. I’ll probably flipflop back behind the manager again then.

 

[Waynne]

Reminded me if that loss to Sheffield Utd a few years ago, zero intensity or fight or anyone willing to try and do anything to push the team on other than play like they were seeing out a 4-0 win in a pre season friendly.

Totally unacceptable.

True but for me it was the manager sitting by with 3 CB's chasing a goal against 10 men, at home.

I don't like bringing up SAF but he threw on attack minded players if he was chasing a game. It's all about taking risks. With 15 or 20 minutes to go, feck it, throw on another attacker. If it goes tits up and you concede another then at least you tried by trying to change the game with an attack minded substitution.

 

[Oranges038]

True but for me it was the manager sitting by with 3 CB's chasing a goal against 10 men, at home.

I don't like bringing up SAF but he threw on attack minded players if he was chasing a game. It's all about taking risks. With 15 or 20 minutes to go, feck it, throw on another attacker. If it goes tits up and you concede another then at least you tried by trying to change the game with an attack minded substitution.

Aye, sure you may as well lose 2-0 as 1-0, I'd do the exact same and that's what any coach with an ounce of bravery would do, just pen them in and go for it. The problem with that view is that aside from Lacey & Mount he had no attacking players on the bench to throw on. He probably could have brought up 4 or 5 young lads from the 21s or younger and it couldn't have been any worse. At least he'd have tried to go for it.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Reminded me if that loss to Sheffield Utd a few years ago, zero intensity or fight or anyone willing to try and do anything to push the team on other than play like they were seeing out a 4-0 win in a pre season friendly.

Totally unacceptable.

Exactly this.

 

[stepic]

We’ve seen this before, an inability to break down a team defending. We also lack depth when we have a full team let alone when we’re missing 2/3 of our starting attack. Team still needs a lot of work.

 

[redmanx]

When 11 plus players fail to do things so basic that it should be like breathing to a pro footballer it is 100% on them. Similar to what the late great Clough once said. Players CAN Lose you games.

We've seen this problem for years from more or less when SAF retired; too many players not playing to their full capability too often, too many players coasting and not chasing, too many players who seem to feel that simply being signed up by Manchester United is enough. Since SAF we've had a series of managers who have failed to manage.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

We've seen this problem for years from more or less when SAF retired; too many players not playing to their full capability too often, too many players coasting and not chasing, too many players who seem to feel that simply being signed up by Manchester United is enough. Since SAF we've had a series of managers who have failed to manage.

The point still stands. Players CAN lose you games all on their lonesome

 

[AndySmith1990]

The point still stands. Players CAN lose you games all on their lonesome

You are always blaming the players. What exactly are you trying to prove, that Amorim isn't to blame for the countless losses we've had?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You are always blaming the players.

utter bullshit

What exactly are you trying to prove

Why would I have ANYTHING to prove and to whom?

,that Amorim isn't to blame for the countless losses we've had?

YOU certainly did NOT get the idea from me. So I have no idea what you are on about. I'm on record as having repeatedly be moaned his poor rest defence, poor cb utilization that was allowing the midfield to be overloaded, and use of inside out fullbacks. To name just 3 things over a year since he arrived. So the idea "I never blame Amorim" is beyond idiotic. I just don't engage in blaming him for what isn't his damned fault.

 

[Long_Harry]

What, I didn’t spot them?

Have another look at the first page

 

[NLunited]

Have another look at the first page

I saw the Futurama one. What‘s the Simpsons one?

 

[stevoc]

He made a lot of bad decisions, the worst being sacking all the coaching staff to bring in his own. He wasn't able to adapt and was overawed by how big Utd was and it took him a while to recover from the experience. He's come back the last few years with West Ham and looks like he's going to do another good job with Everton.

I genuinely don't think it would have gotten as bad as it's been the last few years.

Fair enough mate, but I think he was on a downward spiral that he never would have recovered from. The longer he stayed the worse it would have got.

 

[AbstruseAlan]

This is spot on. For me, I think senior players in the dressing room exert too much influence on the culture at the club more generally. By all accounts Bruno absolutely owns the place and Shaw is very influential too. Both have needed to go for some time in my eyes. As have Dalot, Maguire, Casemiro and others. The clearout last summer was a start. But we absolutely didn't get out all the bad eggs. Disclaimer - I know Maguire and Casemiro aren't bad eggs but they still need to go. Some serious spending needs to happen in the summer and whoever comes in to replace Amorim needs to learn from the mistakes of the past.

Definitely, you can see that our plan is literally just to give it to Bruno and pass on responsibility. The rest of them (minus Mbeumo/Amad) are terrified of doing anything brave with the ball. Literally like bots playing and so easy to defend against in a low block.

 

[kerrygold]

Good performance.

Hear me out:
This was a test of our second string attack essentially.

Without Sesko and Cunha up top we're awful. Zirkzee clearly isn't good enough.

We need to get Semenyo and another #9 with Zirkzee gone because up to it's the same as last season: toothless.

No runners in the team, only Bruno and Mbuemo who were poor. Casemiro and Zirkzee are slow and static. And then the WBs are not even PL quality. We were poor from the first minute.

And lacked

It baffles me how most posts on here polarise everything. It’s not an argument about incompetent managing or players… it can be both.

Amorim: I couldn’t help but be reminded of an almost identical situation when Nani was sent off vs RM and Jose’s animated, immediate response after his team had been outplayed by United. He changed the game. Amorim did nothing. The difference could not have been more stark as Fergie did nothing, apart from express his dismay.

Players: by and large, to quote GN, ambled throughout. Not just Shaw. They simply weren’t up for it when a golden opportunity was there to show progress. I said before the game this was a looming banana skin because Everton always put in an effort against us. Neither players nor coach anticipated it. Apart from Amad, MDL and Mount, when he eventually came on, were the only players who did justice to themselves. Mainoo was a slight improvement and Mbueno, for once was off colour.

It alarms me to see Amorim sit placidly by, as players amble viz: vs Spurs in the final just one instance where he should be up galvanising and shifting said players around.

All very disappointing.

Edit: I switched on a good few minutes into the game and right away, even before the red card, thought I was seeing a different team

he had modric ( I believe ) up so fast it was like lightening.

 

[leeroyTX]

Mbuemo was about as poor as I've seen him. Touch was off. Passing was bad. Didn't seem to have his normal energy.

Amad as the right sided 10 was a bad idea. Should've at least started with Mount and Amad back at RWB

Maz has regressed and Dalot just gets worse by the day. We BADLY need a LWB in January just as much as we need a CM.

All that said...Pickford was really damn good. Those were some top class shots and the saves were unreal. Any lesser of a keeper and we win easily.

 

[USREDEVIL]

First i will say that Pickford had a cracker. I've been wanting us to get this guy for a while but we have Lammens now so i'm fine with that.

Second is that Cunha/Mbuemo are a one-two punch. When one is missing, i think it makes the other's job so much more difficult. Both players create space and draw attention away from the other it seems. Amad was decent, didnt go off for him but same for Mbeumo. Beyond that i didnt see much. Maz is no wingback. Not sure what dorgu even is, but he's got energy. Yoro was weak on that goal, but Lammens didnt exactly look great either.

As far as the manager is concerned, he cannot kick the ball for the players but i'm not convinced he had any great game plan or change to win. He did make the halftime sub so i'll give him credit for that.

 

[Long_Harry]

I saw the Futurama one. What‘s the Simpsons one?

And with that, a mighty cheer went up from the heroes of Manchester. They had banished the awful three points forever... because they were haunted.

Lemon of Troy

 

[NICanRed]

What we needed last night was a spark - a bit of unpredictability - something unconventional. I know it won't be a popular idea around here but I would have loved to be able to throw on Garnacho against a tiring Everton defence.

 

[Steve 007]

I would have been happy had we sacked Amorim after the city game. However the form has upturned. The other night was so poor but I have to say when I seen the team sheet I knew we were going to struggle. The bench was so weak too. No striker, no Cunha. We are a paper thin squad. Zirkzee is like having ten men, possibly joint worse performance of the season. Having said that look at the pressure here compared to at Anfield. Who is having the worst time? Crystal Palace is not easy but we/ he needs 9 points from next 3.

 

[Ekeke]

My stance is I can't defend nor critique tactics that were NEVER in play in the first place. Because the players were NEVER at the races mentally nor attitude wise from start to finish of play. I did not see a single tactic nor instruction they were executing.

Whilst you lot blaming tactics are literally attempting to imply Everton tactics "confounded" our coaching staff so that they were "too brain dead + stubborn" to adjust and respond. Because you ACTUALLY believe the players were carrying out the coaching staff instructions to the letter. Hence your "beffudlement" at their "continued use" all game.

It's abundantly clear which stance is more preposterous.

Who's job is it to make sure the players are prepared to carry out tactics?



We've got rid of loads of players that were complained about, brought in new ones and they are to blame are they?

 

[Betson]

Still fuming over this game and the general lazy attitude of our players , on a match weekend where Liverpool get hammered at home , City lose and Spurs get humiliated we still went out and made ourselves the punchline joke of the weekend.

It seems like a watershed type of defeat where any bit of trust among the supporters that might of been there in the process or the current squad has just evaporated. They are what they are , they are not going to change and the season already feels like last seasons disaster of a season , it is the new normal now.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Who's job is it to make sure the players are prepared to carry out tactics?

It'z the job of players to consistently execute basics. They NEVER executed basics vs Everton. The fact you think it a laugh out loud thing stays it all really.

We've got rid of loads of players that were complained about, brought in new ones and they are to blame are they?

Strawman fallacy part 10. The argument I have made is players are to blame for failing to have the the attitude and mentality to do the basics vs Everton. 1 GAME. Basics they have been doing for a month, which has resulttantly meant execution of coached tactics.


I have NOT made ANY reference to year of football under Amorim, defended tactics used since arrivalt, let alone who is or was or maybe dead wood as a player in stated period.

 

[TallReed]

Absolute wage docker of a performance that.

Was excited for club football after the international break and then they churn that kind of performance out. Goes to show how far we are off currently to make a 10man Everton look so comfortable.

Cant possibly play worse than that so it'll be a better showing next game.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

This is the worst I've felt in a long time about United. Can't put my finger on it. I am a positive guy when it comes to sports but this one hurt bad. It's the hope that kills I guess. Such a bummer.

 

[foggybottom]

How anyone could watch those players absolutely make a mocklery of the club and blame the manager is fecking staggering to me. Every single one of the players who set foot on that pitch for United today were shameful. Absolutely shambolic. I'm not sure I've ever been this disgusted. Bin them all off. Every single fecking one of them.

and a half-decent manager would see that and makes changes. Amorim is so far out of his depth, it's pitiful

 

[foggybottom]

Here's something I never thought I'd say: we'd be better off if we'd appointed Sean Dyche... Amorim isn't just arrogant and stubborn, he's totally clueless. Has no idea of how to change tactics let alone alter the game. I'd take Jose back in a heartbeat compared with this dross

 

[Zed 101]

I had to wait a couple of days before I could look at or watch anything Utd again, I was so disappointed from the start of the match onwards with the way in which we yet again looked lacklustre, Everton were clearly more up for it.

Issues I see apart from the obvious lack of determination from the players:

Subs bench, we have zero options that can impact or change the game, this is not a new thing, I have been banging on about it for a while, and it is going to take a while to fix it, I would have loved to see Chido Obi on the bench, and see him and Lacey given 10 minutes at the end, FFS neither could have been worse than Zirkzee. Even if we look back to SAF in the real glory days there were matches where we were flat and the subs were able to make an impact, so this is not a RA problem, it will be a problem for him or any other manager we have.

Gary Neville, it does not matter whether we are winning, losing, playing brilliantly or stinking the place up, that tw@t just sucks the life out of watching the match on TV every single time, he does nothing but moan about us, and he drags it out, how many times did he go on about Dalot being brought on.... not once even bothering to offer who he would have brought on instead, this guy turns every TV match into a misery regardless, I so wish he would get taken off Utd matches, legend he may be but he can feck right off.

 

[NewGlory]

I am trying to remember another team that played 81 minutes against ten men, starting with 0:0 and lost 1:0 deservedly. I cannot remember anything like that happening in premier league or any top level.

Words cannot describe how shit this team is. And Amorim can feck the right off. Continuing to play with 3 in the back being one man up, bringing the useless piece of shit Dalot as a left winger/back... Not having even a youngster as as striker on the bench... Where do I even start. He is fraud who showed his true ineptness against fecking Spurs, giving them their firat trophy in forever, and continues to show how bad he really is. United fans deserve so much better instead of this

Useless morons, starting from Glazers, to Ineos, to Amorim, to Bruno have hijacked my beloved team and we are forced to watch this pathetic circus. That is the reality. I don't know why we even show up while these characters are running the club. It is truly pointless

 

[Rednick]

Good to see Moyes doing well at Everton. If he keeps this up, he'll probably be in the running to take over at OT when Amorim gets the boot.

 

[Sea-Cow]

I know this is probably a bit embarrassing for a grown man to admit, but that loss has killed my enthusiasm for the entire sport. I had no interest in reading about footy or checking twitter, or watching even a second of champions league action. All of it reminded me of that shit show.

Just so awful from the first minute, and now the entire season feels like a waste. It completely pulled the rug out of the entire project I feel. Maybe it was always going to happen when we lost again, but for a second there I thought the Ruben-System discussion was finally starting to die down a bit. Now its back stronger than ever.

Also feels like next year will be another year with no midweek footy. Just a travesty. Thanks a lot lads.

 

[Winrar]

Here's something I never thought I'd say: we'd be better off if we'd appointed Sean Dyche... Amorim isn't just arrogant and stubborn, he's totally clueless. Has no idea of how to change tactics let alone alter the game. I'd take Jose back in a heartbeat compared with this dross

It's a low bar to clear anyways, but you're not wrong. Hard to see Amorim doing much better than Ange (if at all) if he managed the current Forest team.

 

[Berbasbullet]

To me I feel like this team suffers from delusions of grandeur/complacency at times. Genuinely felt like because we were in a good run they thought they could just show up, the red card adding to that feeling.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

To me I feel like this team suffers from delusions of grandeur/complacency at times. Genuinely felt like because we were in a good run they thought they could just show up, the red card adding to that feeling.

Indeed

 

[MiracleInMadrid]

To me I feel like this team suffers from delusions of grandeur/complacency at times. Genuinely felt like because we were in a good run they thought they could just show up, the red card adding to that feeling.

Agree. It’s been a consistant issue over the years, where we’ve struggled against lesser teams