PL W FA Premier League

Manchester United 1:0 Leicester City

Post-match discussion


Sat, 14 September 2019

Beans

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We got 3 points but forget about players missing. We would have played as much as yesterday even if those three players were playing.
We just don't know how to play football. There is no flow. When Scott goes on a press no one covers the space he has vacated.
Really Mata should not be playing at all.
The team has played very little football together. Herrera was the one who kept the pace in the attack, who linked attack and defense, and our losing streak at the end of last season coincided with Herrera getting injured post PSG. Pereira looked decent in pre-season and against Chelsea for 60 minutes until he switched to the wing, I'd like to see him back in midfield. We need to give them time to gel.
 

lex talionis

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Considering the condition the squad is in, both before and after the injury crisis, this was a good result.

But we must be honest. We have a long way to go before we’re even at Spurs’ level, let alone Liverpool’s level.
 

Isotope

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Was impressed with Leicester attacking leftback (Chilwell). Was he always that good? or we made him looked good?
 

Nakhon Phanom

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I didn't think it was a bad game with two evenly matched sides.
Leicester can consider themselves unfortunate not to get a point though.
I thought Maguire and James were excellent but my MOM would be McTominay for his sheer effort. Hes a human dynamo although it doesn't always come off.
Matic and Mata coming in for some unjustified criticism. They both did OK and are not regular starters.
With 3 regulars missing this was a decent win.
 

WR10

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Vital 3 points. They have been in relatively great form. This was a 6pointer.
 

devilish

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Penalty is becoming our RVP. Ps Maddison is seriously overrated in here
 

Relfy

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Not the best game but a good result. A solid 3 points against a good team and a clean sheet. Take the positives from the game and roll on to the next one.
 

predator

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Its impressive how bad we are really. I dont like slating Ole because he is desperate to succeed but the job of getting us back to the top is just too much for him imo. Having said that I have no suggestions for who can take us back to the top. Since Fergie we've had Moyes, who has been around for ages, Jose and Van Gaal, who are both seasoned, successful managers and they couldn't crack it. We've broke the world transfer record, paid the highest wages...

This is quite random but this post below blew me away. It's funny but it's so so true. I've screenshotted it and I regularly show it to people when discussing United. No one to this day has disagreed with it. It sums up the club perfectly at the moment.




My biggest concern - which I’m more than happy to stifle for half a season at least, until we’ve got some actual evidence to worry about - is that Ole is, at worst, being horrendously naive to think he can basically carbon copy Fergie’s approach to team building from 20+ years ago, which even he only effectively did once - in an era where the idea of a money bags mercenary side was the Blackburn team of Chris Sutton and Colin Hendry, and our biggest domestic competition was a Newcastle side with Darren Peacock, Steve Howey and Ruel Fox, augmented by the relative star quality of Ginola & Asprilla, who’d probably be playing midtable in the current age - into a much different, much more cosmopolitan era of English football....

Even if the likes of Greenwood and Gomes do step up in the way only really Rashford has in the post-Fergie era, we’re still looking at least 3-4 years before they’re adequately consistent first XI players ready to plausibly challenge for anything, and that’s just going off the examples of previous starlets, who were often surrounded by genuine big names to help them bed in/learn from... The Class of 92 had Cantona, Keane and a solid defence, and Rooney and Ronaldo then had the Class of 92... hell even Messi & Xavi made their bones in a recent CL winning Barca side with the likes of Ronaldinho, Eto’o and Henry in it...

The idea we can just throw all the youth in at once is alluring, sure, but potentially kamikaze.... for both us and them. The likes of West Ham & Southampton are also famous for bringing through youth, but the difference was they weren’t competitive with it. I dearly hope to a God I don’t believe in that he knows what he’s doing, or we’ll just be like them.
 

Jeffthered

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I feel like people just say this because it's something so unquantifiable and entirely subjective that they pretend like they dont know what Ole is trying to do just because they dont like it. It's perfectly clear what we are trying to do. Saying shit like we don't have identity is ridiculous when in fact, this is the first time in a while that we actually do.

Theres plenty of valid reasons to criticize Ole if you want to. But saying you read a report of a game where we beat a very good side and then decide to criticize the manager even though you didn't watch the game is pretty laughable.
I read many posts such as this on here. A few things in response: Of course it's subjective, 99% of the discourse on RedCafe. is subjective, it's a public forum for people to share opinions. Like you have. I do not think that Manchester United have any sort of footballing identity at all. I reference Klopp, Pep, Rafa, Dyche, Conte, Mourinho, Nuno Sancho..... all have teams that reflect a clear identity, all slightly different too... Emery at Arsenal... all have instilled a distinctive way their teams play.

You tell me what is our identity as a team? Because I don't know...

Leicester have had a good start, but, from what I have heard, they were not very good at all. Many people on here seem to suggest that we were also not so good.

Subjective narrative is what will continue to inform Redcafe. I welcome this. How boring would things be if everyone just posted stats.
 

Tarrou

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Couldn't catch the game, how did we play?
We sneaked into the lead and then contained them. Wasn't a dominant performance but Leicester rarely troubled us.

They started to pick up a head of steam in the second half and it felt like Wolves and Palace all over again, but then Ole did Matic> Fred and Mata > Chong and it changed the game. We saw out the last 25 minutes quite comfortably.
 

Jericholyte2

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We sneaked into the lead and then contained them. Wasn't a dominant performance but Leicester rarely troubled us.

They started to pick up a head of steam in the second half and it felt like Wolves and Palace all over again, but then Ole did Matic> Fred and Mata > Chong and it changed the game. We saw out the last 25 minutes quite comfortably.
I 100% agree with this assessment.

To say we missed our best finisher and most creative player by far, also having to rely on barely used squad players, I never felt truly worried we were going to let that lead slip.

This is the type of match that Fergie would always call title winning performances, not great, not much that clicked, but beat a relative rival for top 4/6 reasonably comfortably.

I would also like to highlight Ole’s success rate (so far) with signings. Our most impactful players so far this season have been the three new signings (along with McT who I thought was magnificent yesterday). I just hope he gets at least a few more windows to bring more depth and quality in to the squad.
 

Bestietom

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Good 3 points won. We certainly need an upgrade of 2 players into our midfield. Maddison is being blown up so we pay 80/100 million for him. Not worth any more than 50million but would be an upgrade on what we have. I havn't seen Garner play a full game for us yet, but we definitely need 2 more players for midfield.
 

Lentwood

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I'd rather us go for Digne.
Not really seen much of Digne...what would make me favour Chilwell is the fact he is 22, whilst Digne is 26

The problem is, the rebuild is so big that if we’re signing players aged 26/27, by the time we’ve fleshed out the rest of the weak areas around them, they themselves will be hitting 30

It’s a 2/3 summer job this, minimum. That has to be factored in
 

Lentwood

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So much whingeing again from people who don’t understand the reality of our situation.

Our XI isn’t top four quality when they’re all fit, never mind when we’re missing three starters

We deserved 6pts from Wolves and Southampton and got 2pts. OK, it sounds like we weren’t brilliant yesterday but we won. Simple.

Ole, correctly, prioritised our defence in the summer, spending £130m on two players that both started yesterday. It’s not a coincidence we’ve already kept two clean sheets this season
 

davidmichael

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Considering the injury crisis and confidence levels due to public criticism of the squad this season already I think it was a good 3 points even if it wasn’t a good performance at all.

I think it’s very clear to all that Mata and Matic seriously hinder us whenever they play and going forward we need to use Chong and Fred instead of them if they’re available, I’d even go as far as to play Garner ahead of Matic as Matic has no place in this squad at all and should be offloaded in January if anyone is willing to take him.

McTominay, Wan-Bisakka and Maguire both looked really good whilst Pereira looked good as well and hopefully builds on this as I think he could be the playmaker we’ve been lacking in our midfield since Carrick retired. I’m a bit worried about Lindelof as he hasn’t looked anywhere near the level of last season so I think we should play Tuanzebe in the next game.

We seriously lack depth but with our first choice 11 all fully fit and firing we should be definitely good enough for the top 4 and a Champions League spot. Pogba, Martial and Shaw make a huge difference to our team when they’re playing well and hopefully they’ll be back for the West Ham game then we put a run together and build momentum.
 

Buster15

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We got 3 points but forget about players missing. We would have played as much as yesterday even if those three players were playing.
We just don't know how to play football. There is no flow. When Scott goes on a press no one covers the space he has vacated.
Really Mata should not be playing at all.
Yes. Good assessment especially the lack of players covering eachother.
We simply don't play as a team.
And when I talk about a team, I mean everybody; players coaches and manager.
In order to get the maximum output, everyone has to operate as a unit.
Our performances are a reflection of what is done off the pitch.
Unlear objectives, very poor coaching, inept tactical thinking and players lacking technical abilities.
Those are the causes.
And the effect is clear for everyone to see.
Mediocrity in the extreme.
But it doesn't have to be that way.
Sort out the causes and the effects will improve. Even with the current squad, because that is what the coaching staff and manager have to operate with.
Improve, improve, improve.
 
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Not really seen much of Digne...what would make me favour Chilwell is the fact he is 22, whilst Digne is 26

The problem is, the rebuild is so big that if we’re signing players aged 26/27, by the time we’ve fleshed out the rest of the weak areas around them, they themselves will be hitting 30

It’s a 2/3 summer job this, minimum. That has to be factored in
Digne is good plus he can take free kicks too, 26 would be a good age for us as our starting 11 does lack experience.
 

G-manc

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It's no surprise we struggled to create much as that's the case when we are full strength too but considering the players we had missing i'm happy with the result.

I'd rather Chong, Gomes and Greenwood got minutes over Mata and Pereira who offer absolutely nothing.
 

Shiva87

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If we could parachute a player like maddison into this side he'd make a big difference. I think dybala is more of a Rooney though. More second striker than assist maker. Re Pereira he does work hard. Very limited quality though, especially considering how highly rated he was as a kid.
As a kid, flashes of quality make you highly rated. The hope is that those flashed become more consistent with age and experience. He seems to have stalled over the last 2-3 seasons. This is an important season for him - either he gets consistent or he will get sold sooner or later to a mid table team. The same can be said of Lingard also.
 

predator

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Couldn't catch the game, how did we play?
We were shite but somewhat dominant throughout. Even Leicester were shite.
So much whingeing again from people who don’t understand the reality of our situation.

Our XI isn’t top four quality when they’re all fit, never mind when we’re missing three starters

We deserved 6pts from Wolves and Southampton and got 2pts. OK, it sounds like we weren’t brilliant yesterday but we won. Simple.

Ole, correctly, prioritised our defence in the summer, spending £130m on two players that both started yesterday. It’s not a coincidence we’ve already kept two clean sheets this season
I can not get my head around the fact that we didn't sign a striker given we sold our only proper striker to inter milan. We literally do not have a striker right now. An old fashioned centre forward isn't necessary if you have consistent, goal contributing wingers and false 9s likewise but we aren't in that position. I struggle to see where our goals will come from this season.
 

Bestietom

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It's no surprise we struggled to create much as that's the case when we are full strength too but considering the players we had missing i'm happy with the result.

I'd rather Chong, Gomes and Greenwood got minutes over Mata and Pereira who offer absolutely nothing.
Throw Fred/Garner in there instead of Matic also.
 
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We fought for a win for 90 minutes.

It wasn't pretty, but it was important we kept the clean sheet and got the 3 points.

Build from here and try to improve our midfield and attack gradually. We give the ball away too much and sometimes its far too easy to get through our midfield.

Need better service in attack. I want to see us use Gomes as I believe he is a better player than Perreira.

Workmanlike effort from the lads to finally get 3 points on the board again. Lets continue to improve.
Mata was the problem. Not Pereira. He is the one Gomes or Chong should replace
 
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We were shite but somewhat dominant throughout. Even Leicester were shite.

I can not get my head around the fact that we didn't sign a striker given we sold our only proper striker to inter milan. We literally do not have a striker right now. An old fashioned centre forward isn't necessary if you have consistent, goal contributing wingers and false 9s likewise but we aren't in that position. I struggle to see where our goals will come from this season.
You do realise we did not create a single chance from open play yesterday
So I have to ask how you think a traditional cf would score goals with zero supply....
 

Isotope

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Every time I’ve seen him play for England he’s looked good to me. Likely upgrade on Shaw but would cost big money
Yeh. I'm just entertaining the idea. He'd cost some fee. We still need to fix midfield and attack, I doubt we will get him.
 

hubbuh

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But you're the one comparing us to City. All I'm saying is I expect United to be able to put out a better performance than that, and if that needs a better squad then complaints about our squad are acceptable.
Without wanting to draw this out (cos we both agree we need mega improvements to the squad), I wasn’t comparing us to City. I highlighted that we’ve just beaten a team City similarly struggled to beat to emphasise the positivity of the result. The fact two of our best players are out only accentuates the point.

We came into this with bad form, players out, lots of media attention, post international break against an inform Leicester. Performance was crap but with our current squad you take these wins any way you can.

Meant to post this yday but I’ve been camping. North of Holland is lovely, if anyone was wondering.
 

predator

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You do realise we did not create a single chance from open play yesterday
So I have to ask how you think a traditional cf would score goals with zero supply....
Because we dont have a traditional cf... Who in our attack is going to outjump, outmuscle, outmanouevre a premier league centre back? No one. So what is the point in crossing or attempting risky through balls? IIRC against palace I remember numerous times when AWB, Pogba crossed the ball and james was at the end of it, only to re cross it back in to absolutely nobody. I feel like Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis but we have no physical threat whatsoever in attack and it's so painfully obvious.
 

G-manc

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Throw Fred/Garner in there instead of Matic also.
Yeah, Fred also has his limitations but was noticeably faster on the press when he came on. I actually thought Matic did ok yesterday - no more than that though.
 

Shiva87

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I read many posts such as this on here. A few things in response: Of course it's subjective, 99% of the discourse on RedCafe. is subjective, it's a public forum for people to share opinions. Like you have. I do not think that Manchester United have any sort of footballing identity at all. I reference Klopp, Pep, Rafa, Dyche, Conte, Mourinho, Nuno Sancho..... all have teams that reflect a clear identity, all slightly different too... Emery at Arsenal... all have instilled a distinctive way their teams play.

You tell me what is our identity as a team? Because I don't know...

Leicester have had a good start, but, from what I have heard, they were not very good at all. Many people on here seem to suggest that we were also not so good.

Subjective narrative is what will continue to inform Redcafe. I welcome this. How boring would things be if everyone just posted stats.
The identity is clear for anyone who is objectively watching games under Ole. For me, it's the following and I hope you watch a few games to assess if this is true:

1. High press in transition + low block after high press fails.

2. High energy in attack - one/two touch, create one on ones for wingers, move the ball quickly with pace. (The players aren't trained well enough on this yet, and tend to lose the ball a lot trying it.)

3. Ball playing CBs - Compress the pitch by using ball playing CBs to beat opponent high press (with passes/ dribbles). This tactic gets adjusted game to game based on perceived threat from opposing strikers. CBs sit back a bit more when striker used to running on to balls in behind the defence.

4. Speed in transition - Counter attacking + quick release of forwards on winning the ball back. This is getting us labelled as a counter-attacking team, but we are actually most dangerous when we win the ball back in the midfield from opposing CDMs/ CBs.

A lot of this is picked from the Fergie template, but he clearly had better players to establish a clear pattern of play.

In 4-6 months from now, if we can establish clear patterns of play, then Ole would have done well.
 

2 man midfield

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De Gea - Looked solid again. Yay!

Wan Bissaka - No worries at all defensively, but offers very little going forward. He seems to know this too.
Lindelof - Shaky early on but recovered. Still not overly convinced by him.
Maguire - Calm and consistent again, apart from that one time he let someone nick the ball off him really close to goal for no reason.
Young - Played very well I thought, professional as always. I'm gonna be controversial and say he offers more than Shaw.

McTominay - Fantastic, MOTM for me. Turning into a really good player.
Matic - Probably the best game I can remember him having for several months, based solely on the fact he didn't feck anything up.
Mata - Neat and tidy, but didn't impress too much. See no reason Gomes shouldn't be given his role.

Pereira - Meh.
James - Really good again, love watching him play. We're creatively bankrupt going forward, but we'd be a lot harder to watch without him.
Rashford - Cool head for the pen but went missing afterwards. Martial should be our no.9 when fit.

I'm pleased with us defensively, but going forward we're far from top 4 quality. Massive 3 points, but we need to buck our ideas up and figure out a way to create a few more chances than none at all if we want CL football.
 

Bestietom

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De Gea - Looked solid again. Yay!

Wan Bissaka - No worries at all defensively, but offers very little going forward. He seems to know this too.
Lindelof - Shaky early on but recovered. Still not overly convinced by him.
Maguire - Calm and consistent again, apart from that one time he let someone nick the ball off him really close to goal for no reason.
Young - Played very well I thought, professional as always. I'm gonna be controversial and say he offers more than Shaw.

McTominay - Fantastic, MOTM for me. Turning into a really good player.
Matic - Probably the best game I can remember him having for several months, based solely on the fact he didn't feck anything up.
Mata - Neat and tidy, but didn't impress too much. See no reason Gomes shouldn't be given his role.

Pereira - Meh.
James - Really good again, love watching him play. We're creatively bankrupt going forward, but we'd be a lot harder to watch without him.
Rashford - Cool head for the pen but went missing afterwards. Martial should be our no.9 when fit.

I'm pleased with us defensively, but going forward we're far from top 4 quality. Massive 3 points, but we need to buck our ideas up and figure out a way to create a few more chances than none at all if we want CL football.
Agree with this.
 

Cockney Phil

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I think I know what Ole is trying to achieve - just not sure we have the squad.
There were some pockets of decent play but overall it was a mediocre performance and we scrambled a win.
2 Wins, 2 draws and defeat can inform any argument - I would suggest it reflects our rank mediocrity.
The defending was panicky at times and we looked disjointed up front.
Hearts raced when a high ball came towards Lindelhof and Rashford seems to have become a cameo of his old self.
James, McT, Young and others worked hard but it was never galvanised into something meaningful by a playmaker, or at least someone to hold the ball for a runner.
We need a sustained period of no injuries to allow Ole’s. system to get properly bedded in.
 

Player Ratings

6.1 Total Average Rating

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Lowest Rated Player

Compiled from 438 ratings.

Score Predictions

301,220,121
  • Man Utd win
  • Leicester win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 20% Man Utd 2:1 Leicester
  • 16% Man Utd 1:2 Leicester
  • 13% Man Utd 1:1 Leicester
  • 10% Man Utd 2:0 Leicester
  • 7% Man Utd 0:2 Leicester
  • 7% Man Utd 3:1 Leicester
  • 5% Man Utd 1:3 Leicester
  • 4% Man Utd 1:0 Leicester
  • 4% Man Utd 2:2 Leicester
  • 2% Man Utd 0:1 Leicester
  • 2% Man Utd 0:3 Leicester
  • 2% Man Utd 3:0 Leicester
  • 2% Man Utd 5:0 Leicester
  • 2% Man Utd 0:0 Leicester
  • 1% Man Utd 3:2 Leicester
  • 1% Man Utd 0:5 Leicester
  • 1% Man Utd 2:3 Leicester
  • 1% Man Utd 4:0 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 4:1 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 4:2 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 1:4 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 3:3 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 2:4 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 0:4 Leicester
Compiled from 642 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Leicester
Possession
42% 58%
Shots
10 9
Shots on Target
5 3
Corners
3 9
Fouls
14 14

Referee

Martin Atkinson