[OohAahMartial]

The identity is clear for anyone who is objectively watching games under Ole. For me, it's the following and I hope you watch a few games to assess if this is true:

1. High press in transition + low block after high press fails.

2. High energy in attack - one/two touch, create one on ones for wingers, move the ball quickly with pace. (The players aren't trained well enough on this yet, and tend to lose the ball a lot trying it.)

3. Ball playing CBs - Compress the pitch by using ball playing CBs to beat opponent high press (with passes/ dribbles). This tactic gets adjusted game to game based on perceived threat from opposing strikers. CBs sit back a bit more when striker used to running on to balls in behind the defence.

4. Speed in transition - Counter attacking + quick release of forwards on winning the ball back. This is getting us labelled as a counter-attacking team, but we are actually most dangerous when we win the ball back in the midfield from opposing CDMs/ CBs.

A lot of this is picked from the Fergie template, but he clearly had better players to establish a clear pattern of play.

In 4-6 months from now, if we can establish clear patterns of play, then Ole would have done well.

I see so many people say they can't see an identity or what Ole has changed, it amazes me that they never thought that perhaps it's because they themselves are clueless or close-minded and if they just looked around it would be easy to see, watch or read.

 

[Bilbo]

I feel like people just say this because it's something so unquantifiable and entirely subjective that they pretend like they dont know what Ole is trying to do just because they dont like it. It's perfectly clear what we are trying to do. Saying shit like we don't have identity is ridiculous when in fact, this is the first time in a while that we actually do.

Theres plenty of valid reasons to criticize Ole if you want to. But saying you read a report of a game where we beat a very good side and then decide to criticize the manager even though you didn't watch the game is pretty laughable.

Very well said and I couldn't agree more. This forum is definitely a good representation of the toxicity amongst many of our fanbase at the moment. Just looking for the negatives all the time.

We clearly have a plan. It is obvious what Ole and the club are 'trying to do'. This is a complete rebuild of the squad. Anyone who we don't see as having a future here is being let go, regardless of whether it leaves us short of players (it has) or whether it hurts our season (it almost certainly will).

Countless posts by supporters over the last few seasons sick of the squad identity, the high paid primadonnas etc etc. Now that we are doing something about it everyone wants the manager out.

This group are supporters that the club and this forum can do without.

 

[Lentwood]

We were shite but somewhat dominant throughout. Even Leicester were shite.

I can not get my head around the fact that we didn't sign a striker given we sold our only proper striker to inter milan. We literally do not have a striker right now. An old fashioned centre forward isn't necessary if you have consistent, goal contributing wingers and false 9s likewise but we aren't in that position. I struggle to see where our goals will come from this season.

Why can’t you get your head around it? We sold Lukaku on the British transfer deadline...

What’s the massive rush anyway? This is where we’ve gone wrong in the past. Rushing to sign half measures and quick fixes. Take the time to identify the right target and then go all in

 

[Lentwood]

Yeh. I'm just entertaining the idea. He'd cost some fee. We still need to fix midfield and attack, I doubt we will get him.

I could maybe see a scenario where Leicester would take Shaw + cash though....might be worth exploring the option?

Rodgers might fancy he can get more out of Shaw in time

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

We did create a number of half chances. The left foot curler from Mata should have been scored.

It was still dreadful. We were at home. Our attack was literally dead. Which over shadowed how good the defensive half of our side was actually set up.

 

[mitchmouse]

Yes, agreed. Some people said it was boring?

I'm a United fan, seeing a gritty performance like that and seeing us holding on is entertaining as winning 3-0.

It's not like the players doesn't give a feck about trying to score, they did and it was a difficult game.

I'm just disappointed with the caf.

I know what you are saying but we barely had a serious shot on target in the second half and being accepting of performances like this seems to be followed by losing to teams like Palace. I'm not entirely sure gritty is the right word. I would have used that word to describe the Wolves performance had we won

 

[mitchmouse]

Very well said and I couldn't agree more. This forum is definitely a good representation of the toxicity amongst many of our fanbase at the moment. Just looking for the negatives all the time.

We clearly have a plan. It is obvious what Ole and the club are 'trying to do'. This is a complete rebuild of the squad. Anyone who we don't see as having a future here is being let go, regardless of whether it leaves us short of players (it has) or whether it hurts our season (it almost certainly will).

Countless posts by supporters over the last few seasons sick of the squad identity, the high paid primadonnas etc etc. Now that we are doing something about it everyone wants the manager out.

This group are supporters that the club and this forum can do without.

Trouble is we are getting mixed messages. How does a rebuild fit with picking the likes of Young and giving new contracts to the likes of Mata, who although passionate really does look finished...

 

[Stevondo8]

Trouble is we are getting mixed messages. How does a rebuild fit with picking the likes of Young and giving new contracts to the likes of Mata, who although passionate really does look finished...

Given Shaw was injured, who would you have picked ahead of Young at left back then?

 

[mitchmouse]

Given Shaw was injured, who would you have picked ahead of Young at left back then?

I have to believe there is a youngster who could step up... there damn well should be at a club like ours

 

[Catt]

Trouble is we are getting mixed messages. How does a rebuild fit with picking the likes of Young and giving new contracts to the likes of Mata, who although passionate really does look finished...

You can't get rid of everyone and since it's a young team, so they might think it's good value in keeping players that are good for morale. We will see more players leave, probably already in jan.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I have to believe there is a youngster who could step up... there damn well should be at a club like ours

That youngster played the night before, he is good, but needs to learn not to be a bit reckless.

 

[jem]

Am I missing something because there is a strange overrating of teams like Leicester,Wolves and probably Everton they aren't challenging for top 4 they have some decent players but that's about it we may be dire but if we finish below any of these teams Solskjaer has no right to continue as United's manager.

It's not about overrating; it's about realism. Leicester have looked better than us so far this year, and many pundits having been going on about their top-4 credentials. Thus, beating them with an injury-depleted lineup was something to be happy about, even if the football was dire.

 

[thejtrain]

Mata should not start again. Its like playing with 10 men

Add Matic in there, and we are handicapped before the ball is kicked.

Young - Played very well I thought, professional as always. I'm gonna be controversial and say he offers more than Shaw.

Honestly, there is nothing controversial about it all at all. Young offers more than Shaw in every department, consistently. He should start ahead of Shaw as long as he is fit, which is most of the time.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

Honestly, there is nothing controversial about it all at all. Young offers more than Shaw in every department, consistently. He should start ahead of Shaw as long as he is fit, which is most of the time.

Not being funny but that's a mental opinion buddy.

 

[Bilbo]

Trouble is we are getting mixed messages. How does a rebuild fit with picking the likes of Young and giving new contracts to the likes of Mata, who although passionate really does look finished...

With regards Mata and Young I would imagine that these are off field choices.

Clearly this squad has a lot of youth and inexperience and I suspect that these two players are a strong influence within the camp. We obviously need that.

 

[Red Dreams]

We have a very average squad.
It is also very thin.

It is right we got rid of the deadwood. But the fact we still have a few more to get rid of speaks volumes.

De Gea
Pogba


Macguire
Martial

plus others.

 

[Bilbo]

It's not about overrating; it's about realism. Leicester have looked better than us so far this year, and many pundits having been going on about their top-4 credentials. Thus, beating them with an injury-depleted lineup was something to be happy about, even if the football was dire.

United fans love to overrate inferior opposition. We've played two of these supposed challengers to top four already (three if we include Chelsea) and come away with 7 points (should have been 9) and looked the better team in all three games - aside from small spells in each match which is fully expected when you have a developing team.

The top 6 will be the top 6 barring a minor miracle, and I think so far this season we've looked as good as any team excluding the top 2.

We have Arsenal and Liverpool coming up and we will learn a lot about where we are at.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Couldn't catch the game, how did we play?

Well you wouldn't know it from this shitshow of a thread - most of the comments on the first page were depressing.

(1) we won and (2) while not being great, we were ok and the new players continue to look good especially Maguire .... shows why the fee (despite getting ripped) was worth it given our circumstances. Very good defender, joins up the defence and a leader.

The identity is clear for anyone who is objectively watching games under Ole. For me, it's the following and I hope you watch a few games to assess if this is true:

1. High press in transition + low block after high press fails.

2. High energy in attack - one/two touch, create one on ones for wingers, move the ball quickly with pace. (The players aren't trained well enough on this yet, and tend to lose the ball a lot trying it.)

3. Ball playing CBs - Compress the pitch by using ball playing CBs to beat opponent high press (with passes/ dribbles). This tactic gets adjusted game to game based on perceived threat from opposing strikers. CBs sit back a bit more when striker used to running on to balls in behind the defence.

4. Speed in transition - Counter attacking + quick release of forwards on winning the ball back. This is getting us labelled as a counter-attacking team, but we are actually most dangerous when we win the ball back in the midfield from opposing CDMs/ CBs.

A lot of this is picked from the Fergie template, but he clearly had better players to establish a clear pattern of play.

In 4-6 months from now, if we can establish clear patterns of play, then Ole would have done well.

The bolded word is the problem.... this thread has turned into an Ole-hating, selective fact using one.

Inexperienced.... yip. Some odd selections/tactics/subs.... yip. But ignoring anything positive (the new players, the ones left out or moved on), etc. He told the board it'd be a three year plan .... I'm happy to judge him season by season and not cry because we're not level with Liverpool.

 

[predator]

Why can’t you get your head around it? We sold Lukaku on the British transfer deadline...

What’s the massive rush anyway? This is where we’ve gone wrong in the past. Rushing to sign half measures and quick fixes. Take the time to identify the right target and then go all in

I just cant get me head round it lad. Our options upfront are unbelievably thin. We'll see anyway come the end of the season but I am not as laid back about it as you are.

 

[vanderpants]

yesterdays performance shows how much we needed a quality CM and a striker

 

[Irwin99]

I see so many people say they can't see an identity or what Ole has changed, it amazes me that they never thought that perhaps it's because they themselves are clueless or close-minded and if they just looked around it would be easy to see, watch or read.

To be fair a lot of fans want to see good attacking football and that wasn't evident yesterday and has rarely been evident since the PSG result last season. I'm grateful for some of the changes Ole has implemented in the transition to a ball playing defence and in getting rid of some of the deadwood after years of abject failure but the jury is still out on whether he can get a team that can dominate games or a team that can break stubborn teams down who don't leave space for the counter attack. if not for the stupid penalty Leicester conceded i'm not sure where we could have got a goal from yesterday's display. Yes we had Pogba and Martial out but you still expect a bit more, especially at home. Creating chances just seems to be a real problem and it has been for some time, even with Pogba in the team.

Anyway, I guess the points are all that matter after a run of disappointing results.

 

[Lentwood]

I just cant get me head round it lad. Our options upfront are unbelievably thin. We'll see anyway come the end of the season but I am not as laid back about it as you are.

I just think forget this season. Let’s see a few young players be given a chance, let’s try and build a settled back five and then go again next Summer, no panic.

People were throwing around names like Icardi and Mandzukic....I would much rather we keep our powder dry and sign one of the best young strikers around next Summer

 

[Le Red]

Add Matic in there, and we are handicapped before the ball is kicked.

Honestly, there is nothing controversial about it all at all. Young offers more than Shaw in every department, consistently. He should start ahead of Shaw as long as he is fit, which is most of the time.

Always a better LB than RB. At RB he gives me nightmares.

 

[Shiva87]

It was still dreadful. We were at home. Our attack was literally dead. Which over shadowed how good the defensive half of our side was actually set up.

Agreed. But we were also better in other games and came away with practically no points.

 

[Shiva87]

Well you wouldn't know it from this shitshow of a thread - most of the comments on the first page were depressing.

(1) we won and (2) while not being great, we were ok and the new players continue to look good especially Maguire .... shows why the fee (despite getting ripped) was worth it given our circumstances. Very good defender, joins up the defence and a leader.

The bolded word is the problem.... this thread has turned into an Ole-hating, selective fact using one.

Inexperienced.... yip. Some odd selections/tactics/subs.... yip. But ignoring anything positive (the new players, the ones left out or moved on), etc. He told the board it'd be a three year plan .... I'm happy to judge him season by season and not cry because we're not level with Liverpool.

Unfortunately, I'm tremendously hooked to this forum. I guess if everyone thought the way I do - I'd be less engaged.

I only hope we had a few more objective voices.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I just think forget this season. Let’s see a few young players be given a chance, let’s try and build a settled back five and then go again next Summer, no panic.

People were throwing around names like Icardi and Mandzukic....I would much rather we keep our powder dry and sign one of the best young strikers around next Summer

I agree but there's two things here. Firstly, if we finish outside the top 4 again (most likely), we'll struggle to attract the best young players. Secondly, Ole seems convinced that it's all about 'Rashy' and is unlikely to rock that boat by bringing in competition for him.

 

[Bilbo]

I agree but there's two things here. Firstly, if we finish outside the top 4 again (most likely), we'll struggle to attract the best young players. Secondly, Ole seems convinced that it's all about 'Rashy' and is unlikely to rock that boat by bringing in competition for him.

With regards to Rashford he isn't even considered our first choice striker in this squad. Martial will play up top when he is fit.

 

[Amerifan]

We have a very average squad.
It is also very thin.

It is right we got rid of the deadwood. But the fact we still have a few more to get rid of speaks volumes.

De Gea
Pogba


Macguire
Martial

plus others.

Are you saying those 4 are deadwood or everyone else is?

 

[Lentwood]

I agree but there's two things here. Firstly, if we finish outside the top 4 again (most likely), we'll struggle to attract the best young players. Secondly, Ole seems convinced that it's all about 'Rashy' and is unlikely to rock that boat by bringing in competition for him.

It could also be that Ole knows his squad is thin this year so why upset players he knows he has little choice but to select?

Quite frankly I’m also done with these names who “demand CL football”. I don’t want any player who would turn us down on that basis

 

[Red Dreams]

Are you saying those 4 are deadwood or everyone else is?

Saying we still have deadwood like Rojo around.

Pogba and De gea would be quality players we would want.
Martial and Macguire would be the minimum quality we need.
The rest are not there yet or will never be.

 

[Member 113277]

Just to point out that we are fourth and if West Ham win tomorrow, we'll be fifth.

Without getting carried away, this is not a disastrous start.

 

[Scholsey2004]

As a kid, flashes of quality make you highly rated. The hope is that those flashed become more consistent with age and experience. He seems to have stalled over the last 2-3 seasons. This is an important season for him - either he gets consistent or he will get sold sooner or later to a mid table team. The same can be said of Lingard also.

I think he's pretty consistent, just not that good. He puts a shift in though and our squad is pretty thin so that will buy him some time here. I actually think lingard has a future here. He'd be a good second string player but the quality player he should be subbing for simply doesn't exist at United ATM.

 

[Dve]

To be fair a lot of fans want to see good attacking football and that wasn't evident yesterday and has rarely been evident since the PSG result last season. I'm grateful for some of the changes Ole has implemented in the transition to a ball playing defence and in getting rid of some of the deadwood after years of abject failure but the jury is still out on whether he can get a team that can dominate games or a team that can break stubborn teams down who don't leave space for the counter attack. if not for the stupid penalty Leicester conceded i'm not sure where we could have got a goal from yesterday's display. Yes we had Pogba and Martial out but you still expect a bit more, especially at home. Creating chances just seems to be a real problem and it has been for some time, even with Pogba in the team.

Anyway, I guess the points are all that matter after a run of disappointing results.

The same fans will call him naiv when it leads to counter attacks and goals against. And to dominate games, you need better players in the midfield, I think it´s simple as that.

 

[nainaisson]

Not being funny but that's a mental opinion buddy.

Very compelling argument. You remind me a lot of Daniel Webster and Clarence Darrow.

 

[Isotope]

I could maybe see a scenario where Leicester would take Shaw + cash though....might be worth exploring the option?

Rodgers might fancy he can get more out of Shaw in time

I don't think Rodgers would be that silly, but who knows. This team need at least one good attacking fullback. I don't see AWB will be our Alves, so I'm hoping the other side will be.

 

[Robertd0803]

Happy with the win. Actually acknowladged football was a thing as a result.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Just to point out that we are fourth and if West Ham win tomorrow, we'll be fifth.

Without getting carried away, this is not a disastrous start.

When you consider the penalties we have missed being on 8 points is gutting. I don’t think we create enough chances to win games, eventually that will cost us. And with a few injuries in midfield and up top we are going to really struggle.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

Only caught the second half but from what I saw it wasn't too bad. We did dominate a period of the second half which was pleasing.

Positives player wise -

Mctominay was very good and is really growing into his role in the central midfield, impressive.

Bissaka is just quality I think and a fantastic signing for us, oozes quality as soon as anyone goes at him.

Maguire dealt with vardy very well and is always assured.

Mention for ddg too who was good.

Negatives

Mata looks absolutely finished as a premier League footballer. Ndidi tackled him time and again and he couldn't handle it at all.

Rashford scored but he didn't get into the game really apart from set pieces. Not a major negative bit he needs to influence more in open play.



Happy enough overall let's keep it up.

 

[minh_loc_xoay]

Just to point out that we are fourth and if West Ham win tomorrow, we'll be fifth.

Without getting carried away, this is not a disastrous start.

It's a disastrous start if you consider our next fixtures. We practically wasted a very kind opening rounds of matches.

 

[Member 113277]

When you consider the penalties we have missed being on 8 points is gutting. I don’t think we create enough chances to win games, eventually that will cost us. And with a few injuries in midfield and up top we are going to really struggle.

Your opinions are reasonable and I agree with the sentiments; However, to be where we are is not a disaster at this stage.

It's a disastrous start if you consider our next fixtures. We practically wasted a very kind opening rounds of matches.

You are conflating fact (where we are) with possibilities (what will happen in the future). I agree that we should have got more from some games (and were unlucky with rashfords penalty, for instance, as well as under performing), but equally we have integrated three new players into the team and the defence looks much less porous than of late.

After our next fixtures, we will be able to assess the position and calibrate accordingly.