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Manchester City 3:1 Manchester United

Post-match discussion


Sun, 11 November 2018

Bilbo

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I read this morning that when City took the lead in the 12th minute City had taken 112 touches of the ball.

United......11
 

DomesticTadpole

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I read this morning that when City took the lead in the 12th minute City had taken 112 touches of the ball.

United......11
:eek:
Funny thing is this is what LvG was trying to get us to do, difference being, City have an end product, we didn't.
 

Craig Ward

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Not even mad tbh. Once Pogba was out we know this was bound to happen. We're a nothing team without him and the gulf of quality between both teams is ridiculous.

Won't even blame the players, except Matic.
Irrelevant if Pogba plays or not, he's as inconsistent as the rest of our team,

We are not suddenly world class when pogba plays and its time this mentality stopped.

Would we have been better with him playing? Yes.
Would it have affected the style of our play? No
Would City still have outclassed us? Yes

Baffling logic.

Every Man city players works harder than any of our lot. They are more motivated, hungrier to win. They are tactically better, technically better and they're fringe players are better than anything we can currently start with.

The gap between us and them is massive.

Saying we didn't have Pogba is a very lazy excuse
 

DomM

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Never expected us to win, but we should be doing better than that. We got played off the park, it was way too easy for City, for the amount of money we have spent we should be doing better, it's almost as if we are trying our hardest to not entertain.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Irrelevant if Pogba plays or not, he's as inconsistent as the rest of our team,

We are not suddenly world class when Pogba plays and its time this mentality stopped.

Would we have been better with him playing? Yes.
Would it have affected the style of our play? No
Would City still have outclassed us? Yes

Baffling logic.

Every Man City players works harder than any of our lot. They are more motivated, hungrier to win. They are tactically better, technically better and they're fringe players are better than anything we can currently start with.

The gap between us and them is massive.

Saying we didn't have Pogba is a very lazy excuse
Don't think Paul would have made much difference. He was awful against Juventus and the way this game went he would have not been much better. Him playing might have changed City's thinking a bit, but that is all. When Paul is good he is really good, when he isn't he can actually be as big a liability as anyone else.
 

Xaviboy

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Just watched highlightes again from match and you can clearly see the difference in a well coached team. Pep has been gifted with a good squad and was given the money to buy his players that fits his style and play but you can't take it away from that man city are a well coached team, hard work on training pitch with his players. Pep 3rd year now and he has his team well drilled, they play same way every game. Mourinho 3rd year and we gave gone backwards. No style to our play. We will graft out results and wins and it's not pretty. This excuse of mourinho not getting backed in the transfer market because I don't think we would of improved in our style of play. He said we were well equipped in the attack department after Sanchez but we have got worse in attack.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Just watched highlightes again from match and you can clearly see the difference in a well coached team. Pep has been gifted with a good squad and was given the money to buy his players that fits his style and play but you can't take it away from that Man City are a well coached team, hard work on training pitch with his players. Pep 3rd year now and he has his team well drilled, they play same way every game. Mourinho 3rd year and we gave gone backwards. No style to our play. We will graft out results and wins and it's not pretty. This excuse of Mourinho not getting backed in the transfer market because I don't think we would of improved in our style of play. He said we were well equipped in the attack department after Sanchez but we have got worse in attack.
You sat down and watched it again?:eek:
 

Joeace2020

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Again, I'm not.

Just that all three City goals were awful defending (individuals and team). Or do you think the defending was ok?
The defending was shambolic and why wouldn't it when the manager sticks to a football tactic of surrendering possession to opponents that burdens the defenders who he already wrote off before a ball was kicked this season. If he can't coach this team to defend then maybe he should settle for trying to outscore opponents. I'd prefer a 6-5 entertaining loss than an inexcusable humiliating 3-1 defeat.
 
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Tmac1090

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I just realized that from the starting XI yesterday it was only 4 pre-Pep players for City and 9(!) pre-Mourinho players for United.

Pep had a much better starting point with the City squad and has spent A LOT more than Mourinho. Who's to blame, Mourinho or Woodward + Glazers? Could make a case that none of Mourinho's transfers has really worked out though.
 

GhastlyHun

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I just realized that from the starting XI yesterday it was only 4 pre-Pep players for City and 9(!) pre-Mourinho players for United.

Pep had a much better starting point with the City squad and has spent A LOT more than Mourinho. Who's to blame, Mourinho or Woodward + Glazers? Could make a case that none of Mourinho's transfers has really worked out though.
Look where several of Mou's highest profile signings were. On the bench (Sanchez, Lukaku, Fred). Who do you blame for that now?
 

mark_a

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A couple of unexplained things for me: How was Fernandinho still on the field at the end, he committed 3 yellow card offences, even Lee Dixon thought that. Is hoofing the ball away after you've conceded a foul now allowed? City did this at least 3 times during the game.
 

GhastlyHun

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kicker.de not sugarcoating things in their match report: "United clinically used their big chances, meaning the one they had." :lol:
 

red4ever 79

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Not surprised at the result. Aside from our GK and our CM who was missing there isnt another single player in our team who would make their starting XI.
 

mark_a

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Embarrassing really. Fecking get stuck in, foul them, press them, whatever... But don't just let them pass it around with so much fecking ease.

44 passes? Embarrassing.
That's exactly the point: When do City let anyone get that number of passes going? They dispossess the other team by any means necessary. I get this is how they play (though Pep won't acknowledge it), but tactics aside, it speaks of a level of commitment that our players don't seem to have. We seem to lack basics like speed, confidence, determination. We CAN do it, we proved that last week and against City at the Emptyhad last year
 

Raven

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I've constantly been between Jose in and Jose out, but this has changed things for me. I waited till today to post about it, so as not to completely knee jerk it.

We weren't the worst after the first 10 minutes in the first half. The midfield was put shit though from start to finish. The number of runs that Martial, Rashford and Lingard made and those wankers were unwilling to release the ball drove me insane.

The worst part for me though was that when we got a goal back, we just sat back again. We had the momentum, yet refused to have a proper go, this is 100% on the manager. We didn't have Pogba, but City's defence was there to be gotten at and the manager wouldn't allow it.
 

horsechoker

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:eek:
Funny thing is this is what LvG was trying to get us to do, difference being, City have an end product, we didn't.
LVG had good intentions but went about it the wrong way.

Not dropping Rooney, signing mediocre talent (with a couple of exceptions), wanting players to take an extra touch on the ball in the box. I wonder how LVG would have done if he was City manager and had unlimited cash. Sancho and Foden would most likely be first teamers.
 

Tmac1090

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Look where several of Mou's highest profile signings were. On the bench (Sanchez, Lukaku, Fred). Who do you blame for that now?
Like I said none of Mourinho's signings has really worked out and some of the players he bought might be a total miss I.E Lukaku. It's just weird that 9 players in the starting XI is from before Mourinho even though he has spent over 400 millions. He's purchased a total of 10 players (9 if you exclude Lee Grant) and Pogba is really the only one that improves the team.

It seems to be trend post-Fergie to buy bang average players that doesn't improve the team whatsoever.
 

DomesticTadpole

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LVG had good intentions but went about it the wrong way.

Not dropping Rooney, signing mediocre talent (with a couple of exceptions), wanting players to take an extra touch on the ball in the box. I wonder how LVG would have done if he was City manager and had unlimited cash. Sancho and Foden would most likely be first teamers.

Definitely agree with that. He would have loved them.
 

iHicksy

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First game of the season i've switched off, just before we scored the pen. I was sat there watching it and it was just making me depressed and I started to think. What am I actually getting from this? It's just no longer enjoyable to watch and i've served my time by watching pretty much every game from the Moyes and LvG era....
 

DomesticTadpole

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First game of the season i've switched off, just before we scored the pen. I was sat there watching it and it was just making me depressed and I started to think. What am I actually getting from this? It's just no longer enjoyable to watch and i've served my time by watching pretty much every game from the Moyes and LvG era....
I have MUTV and only now watch it for the U-18's and the women's game. I rarely re-watch games as if I didn't enjoy them first time round, why would I sit through it again.
 

jontheblue

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How much truth do United fans potentially see in this article, in particular the section I've pasted

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-United-use-scouts-arrived-former-bosses.html


Despite the controversy over City's actions, as revealed by Football Leaks, no one doubts that they run an efficient football project. Chief executive Ferran Soriano and director of football Txiki Begiristain are universally respected.

Agents who dealt with both clubs this summer report that City's strategy and presentations on why they wanted to sign a player and how it was envisaged he would fit into the team were far better than United's. At Old Trafford there are several staff all with titles suggesting they will have a significant input into transfer strategy, all of whom have been appointed under different managers.

So Jim Lawlor, appointed by Sir Alex, is chief scout. Head of Global Scouting is Marcel Bout, appointed by Van Gaal. Head of Development is John Murtough, appointed by David Moyes. Clearly Jose Mourinho has a voice in signings, and all would need the ultimate approval of executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward. Add in the fact that United's desire to dominate the social media world seems to be a diversionary obsession.

The pitch to sign Paul Pogba included analysis which showed how many more interactions he generated on social media when linked to United rather than Real Madrid. That may be the way of the modern football world, but it would have been anathema to the United of Sir Alex.

There is no intrinsic problem with having a variety of voices contributing to an area as important as transfer acquisitions. Liverpool have a transfer committee which has worked very well. And at City, Guardiola, Soriano and Begiristain liaise.

Yet, crucially, those three share a vision, inspired by Barcelona, for whom they all worked previously, and Johan Cruyff, for whom two of them played. United have a multitude of voices with fundamentally different ideas of how the game should be played.

'The recruitment plan has been all over the place,' said Gary Neville last month. 'And it has been driven by each manager at the time. And each manager has got a different philosophy and values, so you've got three or four different sets of players from three or four different managers.

'If you have a central philosophy and value it means you always bring players in who fit this profile. Then the coaches always fit around that, and you'd probably be OK
 

DomesticTadpole

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How much truth do United fans potentially see in this article, in particular the section I've pasted

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-United-use-scouts-arrived-former-bosses.html


Despite the controversy over City's actions, as revealed by Football Leaks, no one doubts that they run an efficient football project. Chief executive Ferran Soriano and director of football Txiki Begiristain are universally respected.

Agents who dealt with both clubs this summer report that City's strategy and presentations on why they wanted to sign a player and how it was envisaged he would fit into the team were far better than United's. At Old Trafford there are several staff all with titles suggesting they will have a significant input into transfer strategy, all of whom have been appointed under different managers.

So Jim Lawlor, appointed by Sir Alex, is chief scout. Head of Global Scouting is Marcel Bout, appointed by Van Gaal. Head of Development is John Murtough, appointed by David Moyes. Clearly Jose Mourinho has a voice in signings, and all would need the ultimate approval of executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward. Add in the fact that United's desire to dominate the social media world seems to be a diversionary obsession.

The pitch to sign Paul Pogba included analysis which showed how many more interactions he generated on social media when linked to United rather than Real Madrid. That may be the way of the modern football world, but it would have been anathema to the United of Sir Alex.

There is no intrinsic problem with having a variety of voices contributing to an area as important as transfer acquisitions. Liverpool have a transfer committee which has worked very well. And at City, Guardiola, Soriano and Begiristain liaise.

Yet, crucially, those three share a vision, inspired by Barcelona, for whom they all worked previously, and Johan Cruyff, for whom two of them played. United have a multitude of voices with fundamentally different ideas of how the game should be played.

'The recruitment plan has been all over the place,' said Gary Neville last month. 'And it has been driven by each manager at the time. And each manager has got a different philosophy and values, so you've got three or four different sets of players from three or four different managers.

'If you have a central philosophy and value it means you always bring players in who fit this profile. Then the coaches always fit around that, and you'd probably be OK
It is a mess and their priorities are wrong. As it says they have three different people, employed by three different manager, three different philosophies. No wonder we don't have a style. I want to scream.
 

Offsideagain

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When we pass it about which I know isn’t that often, pundits and folk on here say it’s too sideways and boring. City hit a thousand three metre passes and they all drool.

If we had some athletes in midfield instead of big lumbering cloggers, we could at least close them down. Look at Liverpool and even Wolves. Work rate is phenomenal. Our midfield is too busy shoring up the wobbly defence.
 

Buster15

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Irrelevant if Pogba plays or not, he's as inconsistent as the rest of our team,

We are not suddenly world class when Pogba plays and its time this mentality stopped.

Would we have been better with him playing? Yes.
Would it have affected the style of our play? No
Would City still have outclassed us? Yes

Baffling logic.

Every Man City players works harder than any of our lot. They are more motivated, hungrier to win. They are tactically better, technically better and they're fringe players are better than anything we can currently start with.

The gap between us and them is massive.

Saying we didn't have Pogba is a very lazy excuse
I agree with your assessment. To me there was a staggering difference between the two teams.

City play as a coordinated until such that they are far more than the sum of the 11 players. At times it looks like they have 13 or more players all moving as a unit and all knowing where and when to pass and run.

United play as 11 individual players with little coordination and very rarely knowing what the next pass or run should be.

The gap between them and us is increasing which is quite depressing. I have to say that the primary difference is the quality of coaching. Playing like City is far more than simply money and it must take an incredible amount of time to get to that level.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I agree with your assessment. To me there was a staggering difference between the two teams.

City play as a coordinated until such that they are far more than the sum of the 11 players. At times it looks like they have 13 or more players all moving as a unit and all knowing where and when to pass and run.

United play as 11 individual players with little coordination and very rarely knowing what the next pass or run should be.

The gap between them and us is increasing which is quite depressing. I have to say that the primary difference is the quality of coaching. Playing like City is far more than simply money and it must take an incredible amount of time to get to that level.
City it is the coaching. Bringing in all those players wouldn't work without good coaching. They all know the system and where they fit in it. We just chuck 11 players out there and hope it works. He has been lucky this season that his subs have got us out of a hole.
 

Trizy

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I am tired of Mourinho's approach to games to be honest.

.
As much as I'm firmly in the Jose out camp, if we played open attacking football yesterday against City we'd have lost by 6 or more goals. We are a very, very poor team.
 

robinamicrowave

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That was a strange game.

We were the better team for most of it and yet our performance was slightly muted. After the first goal went in I assumed we would really kick on and be two or three clear by half-time. But you suddenly started doing a good job of stifling our transitional play in midfield and when we went in at half-time I was pretty nervous about the second half. Even after Aguero scored I was still half expecting the game to swing back in your favour, and it nearly did when you scored the penalty, but you never quite managed to stifle our play and step up a gear at the same time. In an attempt to add some drive to your game, Mourinho sacrificed any kind of midfield stability by taking Herrera off, which made sense, but Gundogan duly took advantage of the space presented to him when he came on.

I think with Pogba in the side you might well have been able to step up ten yards during that patch in the second half after your penalty where you really needed an extra something to repeat your efforts from last season. But alas. I think the 3-1 scoreline was probably a fair reflection of where we both are and obviously it felt good to finally win a home derby again.
 

DomesticTadpole

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As much as I'm firmly in the Jose out camp, if we played open attacking football yesterday against City we'd have lost by 6 or more goals. We are a very, very poor team.
We should have attempted to at least stop them playing. To just let City have the ball is as suicidal as going gungho. We needed someone to pick Silva D up for a start.
 

lewwoo

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How has a club of our size fallen so far behind. Three managers in we can safely say its on the board and owners.
 

Trizy

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We should have attempted to at least stop them playing. To just let City have the ball is as suicidal as going gungho. We needed someone to pick Silva D up for a start.
I hear what you're saying, but, how do you expect us to stop them from having the ball? Look at the third goal, we tried press them at the half way line and they completed 90% of the passes that lead to the goal.
 

Shark

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Gulf between the sides was obvious.

  • One side was positive, creative, etc... the other was incapable and tried to defend for their lives.

  • But it doesn't matter how many men you keep back in your box... if they can't defend well, we're gonna concede.

  • Smalling has always had the physical attributes to be a top defender, but not only does he lack technical skill but he can't read the game.

  • Don't we have any creative midfielders other than Pogba? (Fred? Pereira?) Without him, we don't have a clue. We played with three defensive midfielders today, so it's no wonder that our only goal came from a penalty.

  • City are simply a different class from us - we are so clearly the inferior team and it's heartbreaking to acknowledge that. We're beating them in terms of revenues and profits, but not on the pitch, not in the league table. Why?

  • It's only November, I know, but let's face it, any fantastical title aspirations we may have had are gone. It's all about Top 4 now. I thought Spurs were having a lackluster season... today I realised they were 7 points ahead of us.
The answer to this is simple. City had a plan. They planned for Pep’ arrival while they still had Pellegrini managing the team. Prepared everything from the boardroom staff, to the profile of player, to the coaching staff to make sure that Pep had everything required to succeed with his vision and could hit the ground running. On top of that, Pep then had a free reign at the transfer market with a limitless bucket of cash, which Pep has proven more than capable of delivering instant results when given so.

Now moving on to United. Absolutely zero planning. Our two previous managerial appointments were clearly not correct. After the absolute disaster which was David Moyes, which we’re still paying for, we decided to hire whoever was available at the time to attemp to fix our issues. That man was LVG, a manager who had not managed a club since 2011. Trusted and backed him fully in the market despite this, signed countless flops, only one signing remains in our squad today. Tony Martial.
This time our manager had a vision, but it failed due to a mixture of it bring outdated, persisting for too long with a past it Rooney and our marquee signings not working out to add the needed Robben/ Ribery touch to the philosophy. Di Maria was supposed to be that but we know how that ended. LVG wasn’t a totally disaster but he definitely added to the Moyes wreckage and again we are still recovering.

Jose Mournho’ reign is still to be concluded, but it looks to be heading the same way as the previous one. Another manager brought in because he was available, not because we had an sort of long plan in place regarding where we want this club to go on the pitch. It’s funny that our equivalent of City’s Pep project, was David Moyes. Jose Mourinho and LVG got no such treatment, they were supposed to come in an patch up the leaks spurting out of the ship from all angles. It all leads back to the first appointment for me still, had we got that one right, we’d be a hell of a lot closer to City. Appointing JM back then and we’d probably have won a title. The one that Chelsea have in their trophy cabinet.
 
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Bilbo

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I hear what you're saying, but, how do you expect us to stop them from having the ball? Look at the third goal, we tried press them at the half way line and they completed 90% of the passes that lead to the goal.
Pep builds a team from the front. Get the front three pressing, the midfield adapt to the attackers positions for the second line of press etc etc. Fill your team with technically sound players and teach them your methods and you dominate matches, build confidence and as a result get the best from your players.

Mourinho is the exact opposite. He works from back to front, so his ethos is completely unsuited to a pressing game because he doesn't want his team up the pitch, and it requires minimum 6 or 7 players to press well. Pressing badly is worse than not pressing at all, as illustrated yesterday in the countless times City took our entire midfield out of the game with one pass because of our half-assed & disorganised attempts to win it back.

"The team with the ball has the fear" is one of Jose's main football beliefs. I mean - its worked for him in the past but I don't think his philosophies work in this era of football. You can't expect your players to reach their potential this way.

People say that none of our players would get into this City side. How things are now they are not wrong. However I firmly believe that we have a number of players here that, given time under Pep, would be able to perform in that team. Martial, Sanchez, Pogba, DDG, Rashford, Herrera, Shaw could I think all thrive in that set up, and would all look better players than they do at this moment.
 

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Score Predictions

155,221,85
  • Man Utd win
  • Man City win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 16% Man City 1:2 Man Utd
  • 13% Man City 3:1 Man Utd
  • 10% Man City 2:1 Man Utd
  • 10% Man City 1:1 Man Utd
  • 8% Man City 2:0 Man Utd
  • 7% Man City 2:2 Man Utd
  • 7% Man City 2:3 Man Utd
  • 6% Man City 3:0 Man Utd
  • 3% Man City 0:1 Man Utd
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  • 3% Man City 4:1 Man Utd
  • 3% Man City 4:0 Man Utd
  • 2% Man City 5:0 Man Utd
  • 2% Man City 1:3 Man Utd
  • 2% Man City 0:0 Man Utd
  • 2% Man City 0:5 Man Utd
  • 1% Man City 3:2 Man Utd
  • 1% Man City 1:0 Man Utd
  • 0% Man City 0:3 Man Utd
  • 0% Man City 5:5 Man Utd
  • 0% Man City 4:2 Man Utd
  • 0% Man City 1:4 Man Utd
  • 0% Man City 4:5 Man Utd
  • 0% Man City 1:5 Man Utd
  • 0% Man City 5:1 Man Utd
  • 0% Man City 3:3 Man Utd
  • 0% Man City 5:4 Man Utd
Compiled from 461 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man City
  2. Man Utd
Possession
65% 35%
Shots
17 6
Shots on Target
5 1
Corners
5 1
Fouls
12 12

Referee

Anthony Taylor