[Buster15]

The answer to this is simple. City had a plan. They planned for Pep’ arrival while they still had Pellegrini managing the team. Prepared everything from the boardroom staff, to the profile of player, to the coaching staff to make sure that Pep had everything required to succeed with his vision and could hit the ground running. On top of that, Pep then had a free reign at the transfer market with a limitless bucket of cash, which Pep has proven more than capable of delivering instant results when given so.

Now moving on to United. Absolutely zero planning. Our two previous managerial appointments were clearly not correct. After the absolute disaster which was David Moyes, which we’re still paying for, we decided to hire whoever was available at the time to attemp to fix our issues. That man was LVG, a manager who had not managed a club since 2011. Trusted and backed him fully in the market despite this, signed countless flops, only one signing remains in our squad today. Tony Martial.
This time our manager had a vision, but it failed due to a mixture of it bring outdated, persisting for too long with a past it Rooney and our marquee signings not working out to add the needed Robben/ Ribery touch to the philosophy. Di Maria was supposed to be that but we know how that ended. LVG wasn’t a totally disaster but he definitely added to the Moyes wreckage and again we are still recovering.

Jose Mournho’ reign is still to be concluded, but it looks to be heading the same way as the previous one. Another manager brought in because he was available, not because we had an sort of long plan in place regarding where we want this club to go on the pitch. It’s funny that our equivalent of City’s Pep project, was David Moyes. Jose Mourinho and LVG got no such treatment, they were supposed to come in an patch up the leaks spurting out of the ship from all angles. It all leads back to the first appointment for me still, had we got that one right, we’d be a hell of a lot closer to City. Appointing JM back then and we’d probably have won a title. The one that Chelsea have in their trophy cabinet.

A very well thought out post, pretty much all I agree with. Just 2 points:

I wanted Jose to succeed SAF for a number of reasons. I am absolutely not criticising SAF but Van Pursie won us the title and the squad was in need of a shake up.

I have stated that I have some respect of the way City have achieved their success and was criticised for saying that. You seem to be saying the same thing. Yes they have spent significant money but there was always a plan for that investment both coaching and playing staff.

 

[Esquire]

We should aspire to play like city. Instead we played like proper underdogs trying to ruin someones party with a smash n grab.

Can’t blame Mou for thinking this way I guess. We did exactly that and got away with it in Turin.

 

[sincher]

We are concentrating on the Champions League

 

[Reddy Rederson]

When I got back to the car after the game, I couldn’t bring myself to turn on the radio so I missed it, but there is no doubt that commentators go over the top. DeGea didn’t have his best game yesterday, but in general he is still the best out there. As for the rest, sadly, I think the point stands. I honestly can’t think of a single player who would get anything more than the occasional place on City’s bench. Even Pogba, who is our best, couldn’t replace what that lot can field. It’s a sad state of affairs.

The rest of the team, sure, can’t argue with that. It was just the “Emerson over de gea” that had me spinning in the grave I almost put myself into when they said it . Like he was as dog shit as our worst players, ya know. Just laying it on too thick with that one, IMO.

 

[sunama]

There is a director of football coming next year (afaik).

I'd say let him decide on Jose's future and start building a squad that suits the next guy.

There is?
Do you have a link to this?

 

[Reddy Rederson]

You sat down and watched it again?

Only people who watched that again were wearing a blue top or a black gimp suit with the nipple clamps while their partner beats their ass with a paddle and shouting “shame!” Over and over again.

 

[sunama]

When I got back to the car after the game, I couldn’t bring myself to turn on the radio...

I know the feeling.
After losing that match, I really felt depressed and was gutted we lost without putting up a fight.
Am I the only one who felt this?

I wasn't angry, though I was just puzzled why Jose tried to park the bus against MCFC, who destroy teams who park the bus against them.
LFC and us (last season) beat them because we attacked them really hard. If you play defensive, you will lose to them. If you try and play balanced, you will end up getting hemmed in your own half and you will lose. Going all out and attacking them really hard is the only chance to beat MCFC.

 

[sunama]

You sat down and watched it again?

Only people who watched that again were wearing a blue top or a black gimp suit with the nipple clamps while their partner beats their ass with a paddle and shouting “shame!” Over and over again.

 

[sunama]

As much as I'm firmly in the Jose out camp, if we played open attacking football yesterday against City we'd have lost by 6 or more goals. We are a very, very poor team.

I'm not sure about this.
When teams attack MCFC hard, MCFC are beatable. You need to go absolutely balls to the wall and with high intensity.
When teams park the bus, it doesn't end well.

Last season LFC attacked MCFC hard and beat them in 3 matches.
Last season, at home, we parked the bus and conceded 2 goals at home.
Last season, away, we parked the bus in the first half and conceded 2. In the 2nd half we attacked them really hard, scored 3 and conceded 0.
Yesterday, we parked the bus and conceded 3.
A week ago Southampton parked the bus and conceded 6.

I accept that going gung-ho could go wrong, but parking the bus will absolutely go wrong agianst MCFC. You need to attack them hard, aggressively. Moreover, their players are small, so playing with physicality is important.

 

[GhastlyHun]

City's 44 passes for the 3-1 were the most passes for a goal in the PL since

Spoiler: this one fact will blow your mind

United's 45 in 2015

for real though

 

[Annihilate Now!]

City's 44 passes for the 3-1 were the most passes for a goal in the PL since

Spoiler: this one fact will blow your mind

United's 45 in 2015

for real though

I'm still seething at the fact that we conceded a goal like this.

Fecking inept.

 

[Camilo]

I just think we need rid of Jose. City are a very good, well organised team - we all get this - but Jose's had plenty of time and money to get things better than this.

Yesterday was rubbish, but it wasn't much different to the "good run" we've been pretending we've been on. Things aren't changing. Is it the quality of player? Are Sanchez, Pogba, Mata, Martial, Shaw, Young, Rashford, Dave, Mike, Herrera, Matic and Fred all just wank and nobody's realised? I don't think so. Maybe we're not as strong as City - that's fine - but we should be cruising over the lesser teams in the league. And don't give me "the league is stronger than ever" bollocks - funny how it doesn't appear so strong to the collection of teams 10 points ahead of us.

Depressing shite, but yesterday isn't the issue, it's the performances in every other game. It's the setup and the game-plan and the timid mentality (not individually but as a whole, including Jose) that's the issue.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I hear what you're saying, but, how do you expect us to stop them from having the ball? Look at the third goal, we tried press them at the half way line and they completed 90% of the passes that lead to the goal.

We didn't really though. We were half-arsed at best.... there was no real press on and no real desire to win the ball back.

Did any of our players even nearly foul one of there's (something that happens when you are intensely trying to get the ball back)? Nope... should they have? Absolutely. The fact that after around 20 passes one of our players didn't just go and commit a cynical foul (something that City would have done, or Jose's Chelsea for a matter of fact) is mind boggling.

 

[Canagel]

City's 44 passes for the 3-1 were the most passes for a goal in the PL since

Spoiler: this one fact will blow your mind

United's 45 in 2015

for real though

LVG and Pep have the same ideas with possession so no surprises.
The difference is pep allows more freedom in the final third whilst under LVG it was more restricted and players didn't shoot much.

 

[rotherham_red]

I was at the game.

It was a really strange experience. City were flat and didn't really go for the kill. We had spells in the game where we had a more than decent share of the ball but due to either incompetency (Herrera) or cowardice (Matic) we simply either ceded possession too easily or continually chose the wrong pass over and over again. I lost count the amount of times Young was in acres of space on the right through the whole game but was ignored, for example. And yet, 3-1 seemed to flatter us.

The people I felt sorry for yesterday were Fellaini, Lingard and Rashford. Fellaini was the one man who could really hold his head up with his performance and it deserved a better result, and Lingard and Rashford ran themselves into the ground only for the ball to hardly ever come to them, and when it did, they were always isolated.

Also, a word on our fans. Fan-fecking-tastic. We outsung them all game and it must have been a 50 minute rendition of the new Sanchez, Paul Pogba and Fred chant in the second half which we just sang and sang and sang even as their goals went in. Their lot were fecking quiet as mice. To think this is the biggest game of their season and their supposed hardcore couldn't even be bothered to say much. They were ace with their munich plane motions though, the cnuts.

 

[Kapardin]

Can we just pretend this game never happened and forget about it? It was a fecking embarrassment.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Here's our average positioning and team shape compared with City's. The plain coloured numbers represent subs, for those that don't know. But just look at it. No fecking shape whatsoever, especially compared to the City one where there's a clear 433. The other thing that sticks out is how far we are from their box, but that's not exactly a surprise really.

 

[fergieisold]

What is depressing is that all we have any hope of getting against City now is a lucky win. Can't believe how far we've fallen behind them and seemingly this will take a number of years to sort out. Looks to me that if Pep stays he will have a period of Barca type dominance in Europe with one of our most hated rivals. awful.

 

[Ibrahimorich]

Look at our team that started compared to theirs. Even with my United blinkers on you can only claim 3 of ours would start for them. De Gea, Shaw and Martial.

Look at our selection of fullbacks compared to theirs. We only have 1 actual first team fullback in our squad. They have Walker, Mendy, Danillo.

Look at their forwards. All across the park they have better players.

We need to buy some fecking fullbacks and a quality CB. Valencia and Young? Cmon..two should be retired wingers we bought a decade ago.

Ridiculous

 

[Canagel]

Here's our average positioning and team shape compared with City's. The plain coloured numbers represent subs, for those that don't know. But just look at it. No fecking shape whatsoever, especially compared to the City one where there's a clear 433. The other thing that sticks out is how far we are from their box, but that's not exactly a surprise really.

Fellaini and Matic tripping over each other. but seriously what formation is that supposed to be?

 

[Hammondo]

Pep builds a team from the front. Get the front three pressing, the midfield adapt to the attackers positions for the second line of press etc etc. Fill your team with technically sound players and teach them your methods and you dominate matches, build confidence and as a result get the best from your players.

Mourinho is the exact opposite. He works from back to front, so his ethos is completely unsuited to a pressing game because he doesn't want his team up the pitch, and it requires minimum 6 or 7 players to press well. Pressing badly is worse than not pressing at all, as illustrated yesterday in the countless times City took our entire midfield out of the game with one pass because of our half-assed & disorganised attempts to win it back.

"The team with the ball has the fear" is one of Jose's main football beliefs. I mean - its worked for him in the past but I don't think his philosophies work in this era of football. You can't expect your players to reach their potential this way.

People say that none of our players would get into this City side. How things are now they are not wrong. However I firmly believe that we have a number of players here that, given time under Pep, would be able to perform in that team. Martial, Sanchez, Pogba, DDG, Rashford, Herrera, Shaw could I think all thrive in that set up, and would all look better players than they do at this moment.

He always builds his team from the midfield dude.

 

[Raw]

Here's our average positioning and team shape compared with City's. The plain coloured numbers represent subs, for those that don't know. But just look at it. No fecking shape whatsoever, especially compared to the City one where there's a clear 433. The other thing that sticks out is how far we are from their box, but that's not exactly a surprise really.

What on earth is that

Really shows how impotent our right side is. No threat from us and City taking advantage by crowding it.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Fellaini and Matic tripping over each other. but seriously what formation is that supposed to be?

Yeah Fellaini and Matic in each other's pockets. As for the formation? Feck knows. 2251 apparently looking at that.

 

[BusbyMalone]

What on earth is that

Really shows how impotent our right side is. No threat from us and City taking advantage by crowding it.

Our right side is fecking broke. Here's our most frequent passes during the match:

 

[Canagel]

Yeah Fellaini and Matic in each other's pockets. As for the formation? Feck knows. 2251 apparently looking at that.

Shaw as far forward as Lingard and Rashford is quite damning as well. Lingard especially is a joke. What is he doing in the middle?

 

[red4ever 79]

Look at our team that started compared to theirs. Even with my United blinkers on you can only claim 3 of ours would start for them. De Gea, Shaw and Martial.

Look at our selection of fullbacks compared to theirs. We only have 1 actual first team fullback in our squad. They have Walker, Mendy, Danillo.

Look at their forwards. All across the park they have better players.

We need to buy some fecking fullbacks and a quality CB. Valencia and Young? Cmon..two should be retired wingers we bought a decade ago.

Ridiculous

Shaw wouldnt get in ahead of Delph, never mind Mendy.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Shaw wouldnt get in ahead of Delph, never mind Mendy.

I mean he would... Delph is pretty crap. Hell, last season Young was a better LB option then him.

Agree that he probably wouldn't get ahead of Mendy though.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I mean he would... Delph is pretty crap. Hell, last season Young was a better LB option then him.

Agree that he probably wouldn't get ahead of Mendy though.

Luke wouldn't stay in good enough shape for Pep. He would drive him nuts.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Because we dont just use it Vs City. That is our strategy in most matches. Any team can come to Old Trafford now and play on the front foot cos we let them. Even if we beat teams more often than not, I bet you those players think differently when they come off the pitch than compared to playing City.

That fear alone is worth a few goals/points. City have most teams beat in their heads now before they even step on the pitch.

Now we're moving away from yesterday's game and when we do that, I have to agree. I also want us to be more forward minded. But away to this City side is not the best time to be going there.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I've constantly been between Jose in and Jose out, but this has changed things for me. I waited till today to post about it, so as not to completely knee jerk it.

We weren't the worst after the first 10 minutes in the first half. The midfield was put shit though from start to finish. The number of runs that Martial, Rashford and Lingard made and those wankers were unwilling to release the ball drove me insane.

The worst part for me though was that when we got a goal back, we just sat back again. We had the momentum, yet refused to have a proper go, this is 100% on the manager. We didn't have Pogba, but City's defence was there to be gotten at and the manager wouldn't allow it.

I don't know if that's the case. The forwards were making the runs after all. And it was those midfielders lingering on the ball and then going short.

It's all very frustrating in the end, regardless of who we want to point the finger at.

 

[sunama]

City's 44 passes for the 3-1 were the most passes for a goal in the PL since

Spoiler: this one fact will blow your mind

United's 45 in 2015

for real though

We were standing off of them, which is why they were allowed to pass like that. Quite apart from the fact that we were chasing the game, we should've broken up their stranglehold on possession at some point during the 44 passes.
For me though, the worst was seeing Gundogan drift past our midfield and defence, get 2-3 touches of the ball while in front of our goal (unchallenged) and then shoot. I've said for a long time that our defenders do not know how to defend and this was a perfect example. They NEED a DM to protect them. I saw this kind of thing in LVGs season, too. Basically, when an opponent got past our midfield, they'd bypass our defence like it wasn't there and then shoot...forcing DDG to make a save.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

We were standing off of them, which is why they were allowed to pass like that. Quite apart from the fact that we were chasing the game, we should've broken up their stranglehold on possession at some point during the 44 passes.
For me though, the worst was seeing Gundogan drift past our midfield and defence, get 2-3 touches of the ball while in front of our goal (unchallenged) and then shoot. I've said for a long time that our defenders do not know how to defend and this was a perfect example. They NEED a DM to protect them. I saw this kind of thing in LVGs season, too. Basically, when an opponent got past our midfield, they'd bypass our defence like it wasn't there and then shoot...forcing DDG to make a save.

If we had been doing that many passes somebody from City would have just fouled someone to break it up. There again everytime we foul someone people on here moan that it was stupid. Bet City fans don't think their players are stupid when they do it.

 

[GhastlyHun]

the worst was seeing Gundogan drift past our midfield and defence, get 2-3 touches of the ball while in front of our goal (unchallenged) and then shoot.

The movement of your defenders during/reacting to Silva's cross was baffling. Prior to this, there were five people in a straight line (Sané, Young, Gündogan, Matic, Lindelöf) lined up in the box. Once Bernardo let that ball fly, the latter two just stand their ground, leaving Young (who guarded Sané instead of attacking Gündogan) and DDG actually alone against Sané and Gündogan, only looking at Sterling, who was nowhere near the trajectory of that ball. With Smalling, three people were standing around Sterling, only watching Gündogan from a distance, and all gesturing how someone should have done something. Beggars belief.

 

[donkeyfish]

The movement of your defenders during/reacting to Silva's cross was baffling. Prior to this, there were five people in a straight line (Sané, Young, Gündogan, Matic, Lindelöf) lined up in the box. Once Bernardo let that ball fly, the latter two just stand their ground, leaving Young (who guarded Sané instead of attacking Gündogan) and DDG actually alone against Sané and Gündogan, only looking at Sterling, who was nowhere near the trajectory of that ball. With Smalling, three people were standing around Sterling, only watching Gündogan from a distance, and all gesturing how someone should have done something. Beggars belief.

It's almost fascinating, albeit in a depressing way, how we have a knack for these errors. Completely unacceptable if you want to be a consistently winning team.

Had nothing to do with the 44 passes, Brighton or Bournemouth could've scored that goal too.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Here's our average positioning and team shape compared with City's. The plain coloured numbers represent subs, for those that don't know. But just look at it. No fecking shape whatsoever, especially compared to the City one where there's a clear 433. The other thing that sticks out is how far we are from their box, but that's not exactly a surprise really.

As has been said that lays bare the car crash that is our midfield and joke of an imbalance between our left and right flanks. The CBs are ok, despite being forced 20 yards too deep, and Shaw and Martial look fine. Everyone else's position proves what we already know; Young cannot get up and down the pitch so sits back, which is not his strength, we don't have a proper right-sided wide player at the football club and the midfield was all over the shop. Why Jose thinks Matic, having been turned inside and out as our deepest mid in most games this season, should be deployed further up against City is a mystery. Herrera didn't do an awful defensive job but he gave the ball away time and again from almost that exact position and Fellaini was our best player trying to get something going from virtually the same position as the struggling Matic.

 

[singhters]

Shaw was ball watching for the first goal as the cross came in, before the cross had even come in, the city player was already in position (not sure who it was) and by that time it was too late.

dea gea made an error for the 2nd goal straight at him, again errors are costing us.

 

[FireballXL5]

Those diagrams just serve to illustrate what a dire coach Mourinho has become. It's laughable.

 

[Rajma]

Our right side is fecking broke. He's our most frequent passes during the match:

Tactic called 'Pass it to Martial and hope he can beat 4/5 defenders' is this why we're paying Jose the money we do? Also, those gaps...We're not a coached unit at all.

 

[Rajma]

Those diagrams just serve to illustrate what a dire coach Mourinho has become. It's laughable.

I really can believe how pathetic we're from the coaching point of view.

 

[Foxbatt]

It is purely depressing. Nothing else. Our players kick the ball forward back to City or when we have the ball, turn backwards and let City get back into shape.
I hate to see Matic on the pitch now. He simply escorts the opposing player to our goal. As for Mata, why did Jose put him on in a game we were chasing and the opposition had all the possession? He cannot play in these games. I think it is going to get worse because now Lukaku has come back and Matic will still play in midfield.
I wish Lindelof would play instead of Matic and Bailly comes back into defence. Even Jones in midfield instead of Matic would be better.