[adexkola]

I mean he would... Delph is pretty crap. Hell, last season Young was a better LB option then him.

Agree that he probably wouldn't get ahead of Mendy though.

For a crap player, Delph was really good last season for City.

 

[Rajma]

Imo Jose with that line-up sent a clear message to everyone before the game: we're here simply not to get humiliated.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Shaw was ball watching for the first goal as the cross came in, before the cross had even come in, the city player was already in position (not sure who it was) and by that time it was too late.

dea gea made an error for the 2nd goal straight at him, again errors are costing us.

Bernardo caused Shaw huge problems in the first half. Actually watching how City utilised both flanks in that early period made me green with envy and red with rage at the same time.

I was probably more angry than envious, so I finished up a sort of mahogany colour.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

For a crap player, Delph was really good last season for City.

He was alright - made to look better by playing around far superior players... and yet he was still their very obvious weak link.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

He was alright - made to look better by playing around far superior players... and yet he was still their very obvious weak link.

To be fair he was filling in out of position, he was bound to look weaker than his more exalted company.

Plus his mrs is an absolute machine, so I dare say some of that efficiency will have rubbed off.

 

[padr81]

Was going to stay away for a few days before and after the derby but decided I'd pop in, please don't kill me.

The most shocking thing for me yesterday is you clearly learned nothing from last seasons Old Trafford derby, the game was almost exactly the same and you showed no aggression. You are a far bigger and stronger team and again you let our midgets bully you off the park its baffling to be honest. It's like you guys had accepted defeat.

When Sterling, Foden and Sane were knocking the ball around and taking the piss, you did nothing. Can you imagine, Gary Neville, Keane, Vidic, Ince or even Darren Fletcher taking that. Kick someone for Christ sake. An angry word from Juan Mata is not enough. Had the scoreline been the other way around and Martial, Rashford, Sanchez taking the piss out of City with passes and step overs, 100% Kyle Walker or Fernandinho are flattening them. I'm not saying leg breaking tackles but push them in the back, take the yellow and show them, you might be winning but you are not taking the piss.
You guys just stood there and let it happen, same with the tippy tappy at the end of the OT derby.

Your play wasn't bad at times but lacking a little courage and your defending was way too passive. You've got Fellaini and Matic in midfield, they should be using their physicality to push Silva x 2 off the ball. Fellaini did pretty well but Matic was 2 yards behind the play.

 

[mitchmouse]

This from Jose:

"Not a bad performance at all, far from it. One thing is a bad performance, another is a performance with mistakes. Ours was a performance with mistakes. All of the three goals were mistakes and we were punished for that..."

To me, three defensive mistakes which cost us three goals equal a pretty bad performance! To not admit that and go on picking the likes of Young and Smalling can only have the same result again and again

 

[RedDevil@84]

Was going to stay away for a few days before and after the derby but decided I'd pop in, please don't kill me.

The most shocking thing for me yesterday is you clearly learned nothing from last seasons Old Trafford derby, the game was almost exactly the same and you showed no aggression. You are a far bigger and stronger team and again you let our midgets bully you off the park its baffling to be honest. It's like you guys had accepted defeat.

When Sterling, Foden and Sane were knocking the ball around and taking the piss, you did nothing. Can you imagine, Gary Neville, Keane, Vidic, Ince or even Darren Fletcher taking that. Kick someone for Christ sake. An angry word from Juan Mata is not enough. Had the scoreline been the other way around and Martial, Rashford, Sanchez taking the piss out of City with passes and step overs, 100% Kyle Walker or Fernandinho are flattening them. I'm not saying leg breaking tackles but push them in the back, take the yellow and show them, you might be winning but you are not taking the piss.
You guys just stood there and let it happen, same with the tippy tappy at the end of the OT derby.

I agree with this point. I spent half of the time in the match shouting "Make a tackle, you feckers"

 

[adexkola]

He was alright - made to look better by playing around far superior players... and yet he was still their very obvious weak link.

If you do a survey of the CAF almost every City player looks better because they play around far superior players. It's a fallacy.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

If you do a survey of the CAF almost every City player looks better because they play around far superior players. It's a fallacy.

Well no they don't.

But Fabian Delph? He definitely does.

He doesn't even start for England.

 

[nainaisson]

We had Pogba and Sanchez in that game and actually showed some fight. Yesterday neither the players or manager showed much.

The derby was played between legs of City's Champions League tie with Liverpool. They played Liverpool 3 days before the derby, and had to overturn a 3 goal deficit 3 days after the derby, which required that Pep rest players. United, having already been eliminated from the Champions League, were in better condition and therefore able to dominate in the second half.

These games don't happen in a total vacuum in which everything is decided by the amount of "fight" shown by players and managers.

 

[Canagel]

This from Jose:

"Not a bad performance at all, far from it. One thing is a bad performance, another is a performance with mistakes. Ours was a performance with mistakes. All of the three goals were mistakes and we were punished for that..."

To me, three defensive mistakes which cost us three goals equal a pretty bad performance! To not admit that and go on picking the likes of Young and Smalling can only have the same result again and again

We didn't even have 1 shot on goal from open play.
This is near the end when we're supposed to be chasing the game.
We let them pass it around us for 3 minutes unchallenged.

 

[Trizy]

City's 44 passes for the 3-1 were the most passes for a goal in the PL since

Spoiler: this one fact will blow your mind

United's 45 in 2015

for real though

I don't get the comin

Fellaini and Matic tripping over each other. but seriously what formation is that supposed to be?

It's an anti football formation, literally. We set up to try man mark them, that's why our formation kind of fits into theirs instead of lining up with our own formation. Sad, really.

 

[Raven]

I don't know if that's the case. The forwards were making the runs after all. And it was those midfielders lingering on the ball and then going short.

It's all very frustrating in the end, regardless of who we want to point the finger at.

That's fair, maybe the midfielders are just not creative enough. Which again, begs the question, why didn't he play any of Fred, Pereira or Mata?

I just know that in my Sunday league team, if you complete a couple of one two's with a forward and then he bombs off into space, you have to at least try and find him. I'm playing Sunday league, these guys are experienced professionals, they should know what to do, which is why I think Mou is at the heart of this.

 

[adexkola]

We didn't even have 1 shot on goal from open play.
This is near the end when we're supposed to be chasing the game.
We let them pass it around us for 3 minutes unchallenged.

If only. They passed it around us, through us, over us. They cut through our lines several times. At some points you had one or two United players pressing haphazardly, they just passed through the pressure. And the trigger for Gundogan's run was no midfield pressure on their right side. Just amateur stuff from us.

 

[Z1L3]

A lot of moaning, as usual; and nobody is commenting that United were very good three quarters of the field, stringing passes through City pressure. What was missing was a penetrating pass to the runners (Rashford, Lingard, Martial), and that's where Pogba was sorely missed. The entire game would've been different.

Anyway, I think we're in for a pleasant surprise in the reminder of the season. I feel like things are starting to click, even though the City performance was disappointing. I like Sanchez in the forward role; way better than Lukaku.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

the most annoying aspect of that 44 pass goal is if we had just defended right and held an actual offside trap that pass sequence would have amounted to nothing.....

 

[sugar_kane]

Ah bit hard to read anything into this game. We're already leagues apart in terms of quality and missing our best player did not help.

It's demoralising to see how much dead wood we have all over the pitch.

 

[WR10]

Man Fernandinho grabbing Mahrez by the shirt and giving him a bollocking after not putting 100% effort in matching Shaw’s run was iconic. Moments after that mahrez got benched by guardiola. I miss having champions like that in our team. If only someone would step up and do that to Sanchez every time he loses the ball doing playground dribbles..

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

This from Jose:

"Not a bad performance at all, far from it. One thing is a bad performance, another is a performance with mistakes. Ours was a performance with mistakes. All of the three goals were mistakes and we were punished for that..."

To me, three defensive mistakes which cost us three goals equal a pretty bad performance! To not admit that and go on picking the likes of Young and Smalling can only have the same result again and again

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Mou isn't far off.

 

[manc exile]

Imo Jose with that line-up sent a clear message to everyone before the game: we're here simply not to get humiliated.

that went well

 

[Buster15]

Bernardo caused Shaw huge problems in the first half. Actually watching how City utilised both flanks in that early period made me green with envy and red with rage at the same time.

I was probably more angry than envious, so I finished up a sort of mahogany colour.

That is exactly how I felt. I could not believe that we managed to get to just 1-2 for so long but 1-3 was a much better reflection of the match.

To be honest it was so difficult to watch that I turned over to watch Lewis Hamilton win the Brazilian GP.

All credit to an excellent City team. Wondering how long it will take for United to catch them up...

 

[Cpt Negative]

Like I said, we are dogshyte.

Gone from the number 1 club, spent as much as city and a million years behind.

Maybe you could point out 1 positive from that?

That was my point, we haven’t spent as much as city. No one on the planet has

 

[Captain Paris]

Not even disappointed. We are not at their level and it's crystal clear why. But let's focus on the (few) positives:

-Martial's goal. I think it's good that even when he's not having a great game, he still manage to be productive. Important for his development as a Top Player.
-Fellaini is having a very good season. Might be problematic to some but the big man is proving why Mourinho keeps picking him unlike some others...

And that's it.

We need to go on a run now. Our push for Top 4 starts now and we need to be much better.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

That is exactly how I felt. I could not believe that we managed to get to just 1-2 for so long but 1-3 was a much better reflection of the match.

To be honest it was so difficult to watch that I turned over to watch Lewis Hamilton win the Brazilian GP.

All credit to an excellent City team. Wondering how long it will take for United to catch them up...

Well I shamefully bailed on the same fixture last year at 2-0 so was going nowhere in case history repeated itself, but even though I've no interest in motor racing of any kind I wish I'd done the same as you.

 

[ancientmanc]

The solution may be a new manager but history with other clubs suggests this isn't always the answer. But the situation is complicated by Woodward's position isn't it? He is no doubt an excellent manager of all things commercial but his record in buying players and selecting managers is not so good. He too needs to go, at least from his football responsibilities. But isn't he big mates with the Glazers? If so that's a big problem.

As long as Woodward has a major influence I see no easy way forward unless, as some press reports say, he gets lucky and appoints a good director of football to make the player purchases. If that happens and a team (re) building plan is developed then United should make genuine progress. Until that time the player recruitment reminds me of someone at the checkout in a supermarket buying sweeties demanded by the kids. United surely have still a good scouting network. Buy some talented young players with pace and stamina and put them on long contracts then begin a clearout of the good but not excellent players whose greatest days are behind them.

 

[ToToMarshall]

I was just wondering, is there an argument that an XI of players who didn’t start/weren’t even involved on Sunday beat that side he put out, even ignoring the injured Paul Pogba?

———————-Romero
————Jones—-Bailly-—Rojo
Valencia———————————Dalot
————————Pereira
———————Fred-Mata
——————Alexis-Lukaku

Whilst still a bit ropey and admittedly not much better looking, I really don’t think that side does any worse vs City on Sunday, and from our entire squad a much better XI and system could have been picked and implemented than what José gave us, with or whiteout Pogba. That’s one of my main issues with Mourinho, and why I don’t have any sympathy with him and this view that there’s been a perceived lack of investement. There’s been a lack of investment in regards to chasing the European elite, but he should still be getting so much more out of what we have.

I’d rather have played that midfield given above with the backline and forwardline JM picked, had a proper go and been dispatched 5-2 or something, than only have 1 shot on target from a penalty - that only came from a needless brain fart from their keeper - and lose in the depressing manner we did.

The midfield he played still makes me angry. What on Earth was the plan in playing 3 6’+ donkeys against that City side? Sure bypassing the midfield by going long is an option when we have the ball, but we didn’t have the ball for about 2/3rds of the match, and that midfield wasn’t at all equipped to cope off the ball vs City, especially when you consider the current form and potential levels of fatigue in both sets of players.

As soon as Pogba was ruled out, Fred had to play - that makes the comment having to play Fellaini from the start and therefore not having him as an option from the bench even more laughable, what the hell does he want, TWO Fellainis??? He had £100m worth of midfielders in Fred and Mata on the bench.

Sunday was just indicative of what’s happened to City and United over the past 2 and a bit years. City have become a side that dictates a football match, we barely even play football at times now, football just kind of happens to us.

 

[Tyrion]

There is?
Do you have a link to this?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/11/manchester-united-director-of-football

 

[ToToMarshall]

I mean he would... Delph is pretty crap. Hell, last season Young was a better LB option then him.

Agree that he probably wouldn't get ahead of Mendy though.

Delph was much much better than Young last year, he can actually defend.

 

[sunama]

This from Jose:

"Not a bad performance at all, far from it. One thing is a bad performance, another is a performance with mistakes. Ours was a performance with mistakes. All of the three goals were mistakes and we were punished for that..."

To me, three defensive mistakes which cost us three goals equal a pretty bad performance! To not admit that and go on picking the likes of Young and Smalling can only have the same result again and again

After this match, for the first time, I had the thought that Jose needs to go.
I am resisting though, because this match was against a MCFC side which is the best in the league, but if we do this against a lesser team, then it will be clear that Jose has no confidence in his players and as such, needs to be replaced. For our team to improve/grow, the manager has to have confidence in his players, otherwise we'll stagnate or go backwards. The other issue is the negative goal difference and being in 8th place.

 

[sunama]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/11/manchester-united-director-of-football

That article was written in August, when we had some bad results.
To hush the naysayers, Woodward said that we would hire a DoF. This same story is rehashed whenever we have a bad period.
Notice how there is no DoF appointed. No interviews. No candidates. Just the story that, "we plan to hire a DoF".
Woodward isn't going to give up that role, without a fight.

 

[Tyrion]

That article was written in August, when we had some bad results.
To hush the naysayers, Woodward said that we would hire a DoF. This same story is rehashed whenever we have a bad period.
Notice how there is no DoF appointed. No interviews. No candidates. Just the story that, "we plan to hire a DoF".
Woodward isn't going to give up that role, without a fight.

I doubt that is a very effective way of placating fans considering most people seem to have forgotten about it. Also, just because we haven't heard about interviews or candidates doesn't mean there hasn't been any.

 

[Stacks]

Irrelevant if Pogba plays or not, he's as inconsistent as the rest of our team,

We are not suddenly world class when Pogba plays and its time this mentality stopped.

Would we have been better with him playing? Yes.
Would it have affected the style of our play? No
Would City still have outclassed us? Yes

Baffling logic.

Every Man City players works harder than any of our lot. They are more motivated, hungrier to win. They are tactically better, technically better and they're fringe players are better than anything we can currently start with.

The gap between us and them is massive.

Saying we didn't have Pogba is a very lazy excuse

beat them 3-2 at their ground and he scored 2, if I remember rightly

 

[ToToMarshall]

beat them 3-2 at their ground and he scored 2, if I remember rightly

Would just like to point out those account for 2 of his 3 goals vs the top 6 in the last 2 and a bit years. Yes he was great that day, but it isn’t the norm, which is kind of the point he was making.

 

[Stacks]

Would just like to point out those account for 2 of his 3 goals vs the top 6 in the last 2 and a bit years. Yes he was great that day, but it isn’t the norm, which is kind of the point he was making.

bagged 2 assists in our away win vs Arsenal, an assist in our FA cup victory vs Spurs but lets ignore all his contributions because he clearly doesn't make a difference

 

[ToToMarshall]

bagged 2 assists in our away win vs Arsenal, an assist in our FA Cup victory vs Spurs but lets ignore all his contributions because he clearly doesn't make a difference

That isn’t what I said? I just made a point that his consistency in big games does occasionally leave a little to be desired.

2 matches vs Liverpool, City home, Chelsea away in 16/17, Spurs away, The FA Cup Final vs Chelsea last season, and Spurs home and Juve away this season just off the top of my head are some big games that he didn’t perform in.

He’s our best player, of course he COULD have made the difference, in fact I don’t doubt he would have made some difference. I just think it’s prudent to point out that his record in big games suggest he may not have been enough to turn the game round.

For what it’s worth I think we’d have lost with or without Paul. Not because I don’t trust him, but because we on the whole as a team at the moment are a mess, and City let’s be honest aren’t.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I was just wondering, is there an argument that an XI of players who didn’t start/weren’t even involved on Sunday beat that side he put out, even ignoring the injured Paul Pogba?

———————-Romero
————Jones—-Bailly-—Rojo
Valencia———————————Dalot
————————Pereira
———————Fred-Mata
——————Alexis-Lukaku

Whilst still a bit ropey and admittedly not much better looking, I really don’t think that side does any worse vs City on Sunday, and from our entire squad a much better XI and system could have been picked and implemented than what José gave us, with or whiteout Pogba. That’s one of my main issues with Mourinho, and why I don’t have any sympathy with him and this view that there’s been a perceived lack of investement. There’s been a lack of investment in regards to chasing the European elite, but he should still be getting so much more out of what we have.

I’d rather have played that midfield given above with the backline and forwardline JM picked, had a proper go and been dispatched 5-2 or something, than only have 1 shot on target from a penalty - that only came from a needless brain fart from their keeper - and lose in the depressing manner we did.

The midfield he played still makes me angry. What on Earth was the plan in playing 3 6’+ donkeys against that City side? Sure bypassing the midfield by going long is an option when we have the ball, but we didn’t have the ball for about 2/3rds of the match, and that midfield wasn’t at all equipped to cope off the ball vs City, especially when you consider the current form and potential levels of fatigue in both sets of players.

As soon as Pogba was ruled out, Fred had to play - that makes the comment having to play Fellaini from the start and therefore not having him as an option from the bench even more laughable, what the hell does he want, TWO Fellainis??? He had £100m worth of midfielders in Fred and Mata on the bench.

Sunday was just indicative of what’s happened to City and United over the past 2 and a bit years. City have become a side that dictates a football match, we barely even play football at times now, football just kind of happens to us.

I'm aware that side is more of an idle thought experiment than a serious suggestion but I still see Valencia and Dalot being ripped new ones by City's wide players, just as Shaw and Young were left chasing shadows in that earlier period of the game. Bailly, Jones and Rojo have played no football recently and, in the case of the former two, were in pretty dire form when they last did, Andreas is untested in that position in such a big game and Lukaku is out of form/returning from injury. The rest I actually don't mind the look of in those positions, and perhaps a change would be as good as a rest, except I'd worry about hanging the fullbacks out to dry even more gravely than they were on Sunday with the narrowness of that formation.

Still the points you raise about the blend, particularly in midfield, being all wrong on Sunday is valid and has been discussed at length here and elsewhere. The way you put the contrast between the sides, about one doing the football and the other having football done to it, is sadly also valid.

 

[ToToMarshall]

I'm aware that side is more of an idle thought experiment than a serious suggestion but I still see Valencia and Dalot being ripped new ones by City's wide players, just as Shaw and Young were left chasing shadows in that earlier period of the game. Bailly, Jones and Rojo have played no football recently and, in the case of the former two, were in pretty dire form when they last did, Andreas is untested in that position in such a big game and Lukaku is out of form/returning from injury. The rest I actually don't mind the look of in those positions, and perhaps a change would be as good as a rest, except I'd worry about hanging the fullbacks out to dry even more gravely than they were on Sunday with the narrowness of that formation.

Still the points you raise about the blend, particularly in midfield, being all wrong on Sunday is valid and has been discussed at length here and elsewhere. The way you put the contrast between the sides, about one doing the football and the other having football done to it, is sadly also valid.

Yeah it wasn’t a serious suggestion that we should play this team really, more just making the point that a completely different XI we had available may not have done any worse than the XI he actually picked, and a combination of the 2 could have probably done better.

 

[Bestietom]

Miles behind them, and I'm afraid of it continuing for many years to come unless we invest BIG over the next few windows.

 

[Stacks]

Miles behind them, and I'm afraid of it continuing for many years to come unless we invest BIG over the next few windows.

No point if we are only going to buy players who barely even improve our fortunes. 400million and we have gone from 5th to 8th