FA W FA Cup Quarter-Finals

Norwich City 1:2 Manchester United

Post-match discussion


Sat, 27 June 2020

iluvoursolskjær

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Who the feck is Tom? :lol:

Playing the big guns for 60 min from the start or playing them for 60 min from the bench. Mathematically, you see no difference. I'm sure there are 3x more of our fans believe that playing all the big guns from the start is the worse idea and they would rather us to rest players. Bruno is in the team to provide the creativity unfortunately he wasn't as great as he normally does today.
McTominay, but you probably knew that.

Anyways :rolleyes:

No one would have advocated for starting our full strength squad, but even starting Rashford in place of Lingard would give us more attacking impetus playing off Ighalo, Bruno and Mata. That being just one example that you dont just change the whole squad because everyone needs a rest at the same time, for some strange reason. Balance. Speaking of rest, Bruno is being played in to the ground and its showing in his performance.

The first 11 picked was winning pre substitutions.
Up until that goal it wasnt working and there weren't signs that it was.
 

DSG

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We have a fixture pile up coming and have already experienced injuries to both Martial and Rashford this season. I'm surprise he didn't start Greenwood or James today, but I'm sure he's scared of burning them out ( James is already burnt out). FA cup was one of the few games we could afford to sacrifice our forwards for as we are in the run in. We are clearly chasing 4th as our first priority with the FA cup and Europa League after that so it makes sense.
Yes, agree. He had to rotate and roll the dice.

The first 11 picked was winning pre substitutions.
That’s the point. Failing to create hardly any chances, Ole had to bring on almost everyone. Cantwell hits a 27 yard bomb, and suddenly you’re in a dogfight.
 

Andersons Dietician

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How Ighalo isn't Motm amongst the CAF is beyond me. His contribution led to a 1 0 and their red card
I actually thought he was quite poor at times. Took his goal well and it was a great dive to get the boy sent off but he looked slow and when Martial came on and tried to speed up our play Ighalo really seemed to be struggiling and looked quite average.

Maybe he was just shattered. However no where near MOTM for me.
 

tjb

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The aim of resting players ultimately backfired though didnt it as we had to play an extra half an hour with even Martial coming on in extra time as a desperate 6th substitute.

Flanking Ighalo with both Mata and Lingard, with a midfield of Tom and Fred, that was only going to go one way. There was no creativity, no penetration and it transpired to exactly the sort of stuff we witnessed pre-Bruno - except not even he could save that shower.
The good thing about today is that it told us a few things concerning the team. Dalot is done, pointless for us to have. The fact that we used him on the right at one point under Mourinho and pushed him as a future talent speaks to how poor our squad was.

Fred and Mctominay- Neither were impressive or poor, but they showed that they can't contribute to the attacking side of our team and that together as a tandem, cannot be used together regularly. Since this is the case, signing a defensive midfielder with better passing and off the ball movement would be useful. What is clear is that the depth we have in attacking midfield/flanks are poor. There is no pace, creativity, dribbling ability or physical presence there. We need to improve on this in the transfer market even if we do not sign Sancho, it's our biggest flaw and is the main reason we are where we are on the table. Take Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood and Pogba off this team and there is literally nothing in attack. When you consider the fact that neither Bruno nor Pogba have been available for most of the season and that Greenwood just recently improved to this level, simply relying on Rashford to create for much of the season, its no wander we have struggled to score goals.

Signing a right winger, allowing Greenwood to be a squaddie for the moment would be an improvement. But what we really need to do is sign cheap attacking players with pace, creativity and dribbling. Buendia for example or even Mcginn from Villa. There are loads of these level of players in mid table and lower end of the table sides. Signing them would give us the creativity to beat teams on a consistent basis without overexhausting the starting 11.
 

MissKatie

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What can I say? We weren't great but won.

I fully expected another wonderclass from an average keeper against us to put us out but we're through.

A bad game from Fernandes in general. Ihgalo I really like! The way he turns his man on a spin is great!

Six subs, a little rest for the first 11. I'll take it. Onwards and upwards.
 

littlepeasoup

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Think a year or so ago we struggle to create that second goal, it goes to penalties and then it's 50/50, so it's actually progress for me that we managed to crack their defence before that happened. I think if Ighalo isn't fouled for the red card good chance he slots one home and we win 2-1 without needing extra time anyway. After their sending off they were always going to load their box, stay nice and compact and try to eek out the draw.

Norwich fought hard and cup games, regardless of league positions, are always a bit weird; lots of teams including us have fallen foul of meeting an inferior team on paper and not getting a result, so again, take the semi-final place, almost look past the performance with a rotated team and move on. We know we can play better than that. It just didn't happen today.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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McTominay, but you probably knew that.

Anyways :rolleyes:

No one would have advocated for starting our full strength squad, but even starting Rashford in place of Lingard would give us more attacking impetus playing off Ighalo, Bruno and Mata. That being just one example that you dont just change the whole squad because everyone needs a rest at the same time, for some strange reason. Balance. Speaking of rest, Bruno is being played in to the ground and its showing in his performance.
Look, I just told you and you gave no response on my statement about mathematically, you see no difference. Playing the big guns for 60 min from the start or playing them for 60 min from the bench, same thing. The starting XI makes sense. Unlike months back then when we could start Rashford & Martial against Cohlcester & Tranmere, right now we're in period of us playing important league games twice in a week non stop and resting players are the right choice and makes sense. The primary aim was still the league not get through a quarter final stage FA Cup.
 

Winrar

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Job done, and now onto the next game.

Not a great performance even if we had to make many changes to rotate the squad with games coming in fast after a long break. Ultimately winning is all that matters. You won't see any Liverpool fans complain about all the times they scraped by with a win this season.
 

Tom Cato

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You can add Romero to that list. I've seen sacks of spuds get down quicker.
Sergio Romero has played 15 games for Manchester United this season. 4 goals allowed and kept 11 clean sheets in that time. Not sure you're going to find a more serviceable 2nd string GK in the Premier League.
 

iluvoursolskjær

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The good thing about today is that it told us a few things concerning the team. Dalot is done, pointless for us to have. The fact that we used him on the right at one point under Mourinho and pushed him as a future talent speaks to how poor our squad was.

Fred and Mctominay- Neither were impressive or poor, but they showed that they can't contribute to the attacking side of our team and that together as a tandem, cannot be used together regularly. Since this is the case, signing a defensive midfielder with better passing and off the ball movement would be useful. What is clear is that the depth we have in attacking midfield/flanks are poor. There is no pace, creativity, dribbling ability or physical presence there. We need to improve on this in the transfer market even if we do not sign Sancho, it's our biggest flaw and is the main reason we are where we are on the table. Take Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood and Pogba off this team and there is literally nothing in attack. When you consider the fact that neither Bruno nor Pogba have been available for most of the season and that Greenwood just recently improved to this level, simply relying on Rashford to create for much of the season, its no wander we have struggled to score goals.

Signing a right winger, allowing Greenwood to be a squaddie for the moment would be an improvement. But what we really need to do is sign cheap attacking players with pace, creativity and dribbling. Buendia for example or even Mcginn from Villa. There are loads of these level of players in mid table and lower end of the table sides. Signing them would give us the creativity to beat teams on a consistent basis without overexhausting the starting 11.

Yeah hopefully coaching staff will make final decisions about many of our squad players who have coasted for years contributing zilch. Ultimately we were lucky today thanks to that red card.
 

Rafaeldagold

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Before the red red card honestly which team looked more like scoring? Norwich looked slightly the better side second half which was worrying, but not surprising with 7 changes which nearly backfired terribly.
 

johnny1980

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hello everyone first post on here
i thought we were poor first half average second half.with our pretty much second string team we cannot expect much more add to that norwich put every man behind the ball and thats going to make for a slow boring game.a win is a win and i dont think ole will play this side in the semis.personally i think restarting this season has been a mistake as people now see its all about the money not the quality.integrity is a word banded about by the fa and pl but this is not it.starting a pl season with 1 set of rules and finishing it with another does not sit well with me but i am but 1 person,just my opinion.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Really poor performance.

We can talk about signing players left and right, but our main problem to me is, we move the ball way too slowly at times and it reared its ugly head throughout this game.

At least we won though.
 

BenitoSTARR

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No one would have advocated for starting our full strength squad, but even starting Rashford in place of Lingard would give us more attacking impetus playing off Ighalo, Bruno and Mata. That being just one example that you dont just change the whole squad because everyone needs a rest at the same time, for some strange reason. Balance. Speaking of rest, Bruno is being played in to the ground and its showing in his performance.



Up until that goal it wasnt working and there weren't signs that it was.
Rashford definitely needed a break. He’s coming back from a long term injury so Ole was right to rotate heavily. The squad players need games as a carrot and the first XI have got to pretty much go on an unprecedented winning streak to get us a chance of top 4.

Ole needs to give those players gametime and our starters a rest. It’s unfortunate it went to extra time but we got through unscathed, our squad players have got in some good solid minutes and it shows beyond doubt what should happen to certain “young” players.
 

sglowrider

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Goes to show we are work in progress. The squad needs to be improved. Outside our best 16 we don't have the qualities to compete.
 

sglowrider

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Our 2nd string are quite a level below our first choice players. Without Pogba, Bruno and Rashford we still look quite poor, much like earlier in the season.

I wish OGS would make subs earlier. The big guns should have come on at half time. Did anyone really believe the combo of Mata and Lingard were going to improve after the break!?

I think Bruno might be rested for Brighton now, having played the whole 120 mins.
The whole idea was to rest the big guns. It would defeat the purpose of we brought them on at HT.
The fact that the 2nd stringers failed at their objective is the main issue.
 

utdalltheway

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hello everyone first post on here
i thought we were poor first half average second half.with our pretty much second string team we cannot expect much more add to that norwich put every man behind the ball and thats going to make for a slow boring game.a win is a win and i dont think ole will play this side in the semis.personally i think restarting this season has been a mistake as people now see its all about the money not the quality.integrity is a word banded about by the fa and pl but this is not it.starting a pl season with 1 set of rules and finishing it with another does not sit well with me but i am but 1 person,just my opinion.
WELCOME ABOARD. I HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR TIME ON HERE.
 

criticalanalysis

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To be fair to Fred and McT, it really shouldn't be their job to be the creative outlet from deep, make runs into the box, give width or penetrate the defence etc.

That was supposed to be on Bruno, Mata and Lingard. The latter two failed spectacularly and should take the blunt responsibility of our toothless attacking display for the first 60mins.

The problem wasn't just they were bad, they was taking up important positions and holding the ball with no good effect. Hard for Fred/McT to do anything good.

It would have be more interesting if it was James and Greenword flanking Ighalo instead.
 

theklr

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Really worried that we had our most creative players on the pitch but could barely break down ten man Norwich.
We're unlikely to find anyone more creative for next season so where does that leave us? Probably where we are now..
i really hope you are kidding...
 

Tel074

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Look, I just told you and you gave no response on my statement about mathematically, you see no difference. Playing the big guns for 60 min from the start or playing them for 60 min from the bench, same thing. The starting XI makes sense. Unlike months back then when we could start Rashford & Martial against Cohlcester & Tranmere, right now we're in period of us playing important league games twice in a week non stop and resting players are the right choice and makes sense. The primary aim was still the league not get through a quarter final stage FA Cup.

I agree with this . We are just out of lockdown so the team was always going to be changed today .
Some of the players who started may be players Ole doesn't really fancy but they are part of the squad and at the end of the day we still went through .
It's not all doom and gloom . Of course no one wanted extra time but let's move on and hopefully keep this unbeaten run going
 

iluvoursolskjær

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Rashford definitely needed a break. He’s coming back from a long term injury so Ole was right to rotate heavily. The squad players need games as a carrot and the first XI have got to pretty much go on an unprecedented winning streak to get us a chance of top 4.

Ole needs to give those players gametime and our starters a rest. It’s unfortunate it went to extra time but we got through unscathed, our squad players have got in some good solid minutes and it shows beyond doubt what should happen to certain “young” players.
Point taken about Rashy, the broader point though was that the team sent out - particularly LW-RW combo - played how most of us expected: dysfunctional. I guess my frustration stems from really wanting to see the coaches recognise these sort of problems having the season that we've had of going around the same round abouts. Wholesale changes like today not leaving even a semblance of a functional team would make sense if we absolutely didn't care for the FA cup due to focusing on league position, but going by how we responded by throwing everyone on - we actually did care [as did I] and just ended up going in to the game without game management. Of course I'm pleased we scraped through in the end with a little help from the red card, but I'm certainly not any more convinced that Ole and co are the right guys to go in to next season with - and believe me I desperately want to be. It's why I often find myself being critical rather than burying my head in the sand because we've already seen winning without improving certain things achieves nothing; see Mourinho. Things don't just suddenly start happening.

Or maybe I look in to things too much. Who knows.
 

#6pogba

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I see people complaining about the match today and that's fine it's there opinion, but did we not have matches like that in FA cup with fergie?These type of games happen we got the win.
No injuries and into the next round. Happy days
 

Devil may care

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Lots of changes so the disjointed performance wasn't unexpected, in the end we got the job done and that will do right now.
 

Glorio

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The good thing about today is that it told us a few things concerning the team. Dalot is done, pointless for us to have. The fact that we used him on the right at one point under Mourinho and pushed him as a future talent speaks to how poor our squad was.

Fred and Mctominay- Neither were impressive or poor, but they showed that they can't contribute to the attacking side of our team and that together as a tandem, cannot be used together regularly. Since this is the case, signing a defensive midfielder with better passing and off the ball movement would be useful. What is clear is that the depth we have in attacking midfield/flanks are poor. There is no pace, creativity, dribbling ability or physical presence there. We need to improve on this in the transfer market even if we do not sign Sancho, it's our biggest flaw and is the main reason we are where we are on the table. Take Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood and Pogba off this team and there is literally nothing in attack. When you consider the fact that neither Bruno nor Pogba have been available for most of the season and that Greenwood just recently improved to this level, simply relying on Rashford to create for much of the season, its no wander we have struggled to score goals.

Signing a right winger, allowing Greenwood to be a squaddie for the moment would be an improvement. But what we really need to do is sign cheap attacking players with pace, creativity and dribbling. Buendia for example or even Mcginn from Villa. There are loads of these level of players in mid table and lower end of the table sides. Signing them would give us the creativity to beat teams on a consistent basis without overexhausting the starting 11.
We have a certain Anthony Martial too - just saying
 

Annihilate Now!

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That’s the point. Failing to create hardly any chances, Ole had to bring on almost everyone. Cantwell hits a 27 yard bomb, and suddenly you’re in a dogfight.
We were totally comfortable though and had started the second half quite well.

We dropped off a level and Norwich started coming into the game after the first set of subs, it wasn't just out of the blue.
 

The Oracle

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Match itself was a bit underwhelming, with a rinse and repeat theme from Utd of trying to pass it into the net, or blazing over from distance.

On the plus side we're through to the semi-final, and it was refreshing to see Romero in goal - although I've no idea why he seems to fall to his side into a dive, instead of springing to his side into a dive.
I'm sure he did something similar in the FA Cup last year against Wolves - when we went out.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

Off to Wembley we go! (Well, the team at least anyway :))
 

Okey

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Hard graft that was, but not too surprising given the circumstances meant we needed to rotate the squad. But cup games often go like this, even in the normal old days, and yes, even in Fergie's days. The key thing is we got through, and live to fight next round. We've been on good form and on a good run. One bad game shouldn't lead to too much revisionism. If the next couple of games go similarly, then we'd be right to start an inquest. For now, we good...
 

MAME DIOUF 32

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The squad players just aren't good enough to all play at once. They're all good enough to step in when needed (Lingard excepted) but if you put them all in together you have a lower midtable side.
 

Mr Smith

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Don't mind that we won ugly, especially as it was such a second string side. Winning is a habit, and we're getting into it.

Lets go back to full strength for Brighton and keep the momentum.
 

Green_Red

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Messi Lingardinho didn't do himself any favours today. I think the commentator hit the nail on the head with him when he said "he's not a winger, not a striker, and not a midfielder". He has no position that he specializes in. He just has energy. I will be very surprised if we see him on the field again this year....

Good game. Only one team deserved to win. Hard to break through when there are 9 players in the 18. Mind you, our fullbacks have to cross it early. Put in that outswinging cross from deep that goes behind defenders that strikers can run onto. We rarely do that. It's the pass that KDB loves to make as do the two Liverpool FB's. Our FB's just seem to be content with recycling the ball. Give the easy pass and let someone else try and be creative. EIther way, we still won. Huge difference in class between the team that started and the team that finished...
100% agree
 

bosnian_red

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The squad players just aren't good enough to all play at once. They're all good enough to step in when needed (Lingard excepted) but if you put them all in together you have a lower midtable side.
I don't think the midfield 2 and the defence are much of an issue. Dalot is hit and miss but generally that part of it is fine. Ighalo is also perfectly fine as a 2nd 11 striker. James I assume was injured but also very good as a back up winger. Problem was having Mata and Lingard there. No pace in the team, nobody who runs in behind. Easy to contain that. James for one of them would've had our 2nd 11 beat them I think, as the pace just opens it up so much more than Mata or Lingard who both like to come short.
 

POF

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Poor team selection today. The key to that game was early goals to put the game to bed. But they picked a front 3 with no goals in them.

At least one of Greenwood or Rashford instead of Mata/Lingard would have been a far better selection. Get a couple of goals up and then rest Bruno, Maguire and Shaw later in the game.

Instead, 3 first teamers have now played 120 minutes ahead of Brighton and another 4 have played 45-60 minutes. Bruno looked absolutely shattered by the end. He left a corner for Rashford because he was too tired to go over and take it.

Disappointing from a momentum perspective and may be costly in the run in.
 

Strelok

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Good game. Only one team deserved to win. Hard to break through when there are 9 players in the 18. Mind you, our fullbacks have to cross it early. Put in that outswinging cross from deep that goes behind defenders that strikers can run onto. We rarely do that. It's the pass that KDB loves to make as do the two Liverpool FB's. Our FB's just seem to be content with recycling the ball. Give the easy pass and let someone else try and be creative. EIther way, we still won. Huge difference in class between the team that started and the team that finished...
Well crosses of KDB, Arnold or Robertson are about two, maybe three levels above what we have here I think. That's probably why we don't do those much. Our FBs generally can't even do a normal cross not talking about early cross which requires much more technique, curve and accuracy. And before we start talking about coaching, no coaching in this world could make Shaw, AWB or Dalot to be able to do those crosses you know.

Our only players probably are capable of such crosses are Bruno and Pogba. They did try a few in the last matches, however accuracy was still not good enough though. If even our most technical players can't do those properly, expecting Shaw, AWB or Dalot to be able to do such is pretty ...
 
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Lj82

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I didn't catch most of normal time but in extra time you were battering them. Pogba looked like he could do whatever he wanted in midfield.
We could have done without the extra time. We struggled in attack in the first half, got better in the second but conceded from their only shot on target. Still could have won it but Krul was in fine form. Ighalo had a chance for a one on one but got wrestled to the floor which resulted in a red card for them, right at the end of normal time.

All in all, we rotated heavily and it was always going to be a tighter game than it should have been. We didn't do too badly considering the factors. A bit more perspective is needed but unfortunately, it's always missing.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Well crosses of KDB, Arnold or Robertson are about two, maybe three levels above what we have here I think. That's probably why we don't do those much. Our FBs generally can't even do a normal cross not talking about early cross which requires much more technique, curve and accuracy. And before we start talking about coaching, no coaching in this world could make Shaw, AWB or Dalot to be able to do those crosses you know.

Our only players probably are capable of such crosses are Bruno and Pogba. They did try a few in the last matches, however accuracy was still not good enough though. If even our most technical players can't do those properly, expecting Shaw, AWB or Dalot to be able to do such is pretty ...
I can cross a ball like that. If they're pro and can't do it then they should hang up their boots. It's not about these guys not having the technique, it's about them not seeing the space to whip the cross into, or not having the confidence to do it...
 

Strelok

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I can cross a ball like that. If they're pro and can't do it then they should hang up their boots. It's not about these guys not having the technique, it's about them not seeing the space to whip the cross into, or not having the confidence to do it...
Well you're actually asking about 99 % of pro players to hang up their boots. And it's not about seeing that space, everyone can see that space and every coach in this world can ask some winger or striker to run to that space. Problem is there are very few players who can deliver an early cross that is curve and accurate enough to hit that running player. That's why Arnold is currently among the top 10 most valuable players worldwide despite being pretty average defensively.

Btw if you happen to live in Manchester, why don't pay a visit to Carrington and ask for a trial? They would love to have someone like you I think.
 

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