[simonhch]

People said last week the subs were to blame for our collapse, and I said no…..mentality was to blame. This week we made no subs and it was the same issue. Mentality. Just a lack of intensity for long periods of the game and when that happens we concede in droves.

The team ethic to defending is appalling when we aren’t chasing the game or going for the jugular. This system is not compact by nature. So it relies on an aggressive mentality to implement well. When that’s lacking we leak goals. As was evident again today.

 

[stevoc]

Agreed. Very annoying. He didn't play amazing, but if he's considered one of the worst on the pitch in the match thread because of a bad touch and not being able to do a whole lot it seems harsh, because he was definitely making plenty of runs. It feels like Amad especially never looks to him.

I feel like he should be more vocal about it. You never really see him get upset about it when he absolutely should. The best players give their teammates shit if they don't feed them.

I lost count of how many times people were having shots when he was in good positions calling for the ball. I don't know what the strategy is to be honest, why bother playing a centreforward if we don't play to him.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

People said last week the subs were to blame for our collapse, and I said no…..mentality was to blame. This week we made no subs and it was the same issue. Mentality. Just a lack of intensity for long periods of the game and when that happens we concede in droves.

The team ethic to defending is appalling when we aren’t chasing the game or going for the jugular. This system is not compact by nature. So it relies on an aggressive mentality to implement well. When that’s lacking we leak goals. As was evident again today.

Yep, agree.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Would have been sweet if that funky Bruno strike nicked off the post and went in, that was some effort.

 

[Anil Doolah]

Amad was terrible for me,

Had ashot on target cleared on the line, put the ball on the feet of Sesko on front of the goal and Sesko shot direcly at the goalkeeper, finally scored a goal and prevent the team from losing is indeed terrible and you need to go the specs.

 

[Kayla40TS]

Just not getting over my disappointment. Such a shite performance.

Front three were below their standards. Bruno didn't have the right feel for the game and played too many defense splitting passes when what we needed was a little control in the middle of the park. Dalot was shocking. Old mentality issues reared their heads at times, especially after their first goal, obviously.

Most upsetting is that the game called for something different than the last few weeks and we didn't look nearly as comfortable playing against a low block as we should have. Why did we look leggy? We play once a week. Why were we so slow to react? Why were we losing 50/50s all over the park?

Dreadful bench options really stand out when chasing a game.

Forest is a decent side and I suspect when we look at the final table an away draw at the city ground will look a decent result but we really should have won that and continued the winning run.

 

[Sandikan]

Couldn't watch it as was at my local lot's game, but have seen the basic highlights.

Just glad we took a draw out of it, as it maintains a good run.
A loss would have just deflated it all.

 

[croadyman]

Take the point cause we were lucky to get it, shocking.

I don't want to see Dalot play for this club ever again.

Can we just shoot him out of the Arsenal cannon

 

[Moriarty]

People said last week the subs were to blame for our collapse, and I said no…..mentality was to blame. This week we made no subs and it was the same issue. Mentality. Just a lack of intensity for long periods of the game and when that happens we concede in droves.

The team ethic to defending is appalling when we aren’t chasing the game or going for the jugular. This system is not compact by nature. So it relies on an aggressive mentality to implement well. When that’s lacking we leak goals. As was evident again today.

They don't all switch off though, but all it takes is one or two to drop off and you see what happens. Fresh legs up front was required but Ruben changes defenders. Dorgu for Dalot is almost a given. Zirkzee or Mount on for the last half hour and we might have nicked it. Anyway, a point away from home to a team enjoying a new manager bounce is all right. At least we didn't lose whereas last season we would have. I'm still not 100% convinced about Ruben but he's getting the season at least so we'll have to see, but he still manages like a man with a knife prodding his back.

 

[GregM40]

Surprised at the reaction to this game. Wasn’t great, but we’d have lost that last season. It’s a work in progress, but at least we can see that progress.

10/12 points last 4 games, you’d have snatched at that before this run.

 

[SmashedHombre]

I honestly don’t understand how our players just blow so hot and cold all the time. One off games, sure, but it’s a continuous theme with us.

 

[Matt851]

Still don't like this system but the absolute inflexibility is what will cost us more

 

[FlawlessVictory88]

Hard not to be disappointed as I feel 3 points were there for the taking. Not sure why people are so critical of Cunha when he's playing without almost any support on his side as Dalot is just a warm body who runs arounds and makes a backwards or sideways pass every once in a while. If Amorim is going to drop Dorgu then play Heaven at LCB and move Shaw to LWB because Dalot doesn't offer anything and you can see how frustrated Cunha gets. He went from having Ait Nouri one of the best attacking LB's in the league to Dalot.

I am a big big fan of Murillo and he'd be my #1 choice to sign in the summer for LCB. I'm aware that this isn't going to happen as we need to strengthen a number of other areas but I wanted to make this point to highlight what was a very obvious mistake today in how little we crossed the ball to Sesko. While I am a huge fan of Murillo his only weakness as a CB is his ability in the air where his aerials won number is bottom 13% of the league, slightly higher than Martinez. We really should have isolated Sesko against Murillo all game and looked to get crosses into the box. If Sesko had been playing for Forrest they would have been sending in so many crosses you'd think it was a game from the 90s.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Yeah, so you do agree, that it isn't cowardice or some crap like that. There can be a perfectly logical explanation.

I just described it, the reason for the passive decisions is fear of getting them wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence that such decisions should be made. That is cowardice, I don't know how I can be any clearer. I think it's clear you're being deliberately obtuse about it.

 

[Bastian]

I thought we were a bit shite. Our best football was in possession playing through their press in our own half, during the first half. Final third was uninspired, defending was suspect, they looked pretty average and plenty of times they misplaced passes gifting us possession, but still looked comfortably more up for it.

I think these mid-level sides are the actual test of where this team is at, especially away from home. I.e. Villa, Forest, Brentford, Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle at a push (though I consider them a level above).

Was thinking with Luiz injured early on it was a chance to actually control the match, but we were far from it.

 

[fredriti]

Dalot has zero sense of urgency and does not even seem to work hard/sprint. Dorgu makes mistakes but I will take him any day over Dalot. He's part of the old mentality and needs to be cleared out.

When Martinez returns, Shaw should return to LWB, which would be a significant improvement at that position.

 

[Grande]

Surprised at the reaction to this game. Wasn’t great, but we’d have lost that last season. It’s a work in progress, but at least we can see that progress.

10/12 points last 4 games, you’d have snatched at that before this run.

Redcafe matchday, nothing to be surprised at.

 

[Lennon7]

Look, we had an off day, but all of this is improvement. We drew a game we would’ve capitulated and lost 3 or 4-1 in last year. It was actually a similar game to Brentford but unfortunately they have an extremely clinical forward. Forest’s is on the sidelines..

Step backwards ahead of a big game against Spurs, but praying we don’t play Dalot any more. It’s mad Amorim is so eager to rotate the starting 11 when he doesn’t need to, but refuses to play a different formation - a 4-3-3 would’ve worked extremely well today against that wide Forest team, always seeking to cross and start attacks from the wing.

 

[One Night Only]

Dyche always plays this like the world cup final. He's a Scouse loving gravel eating bellend.

When they play Liverpool he may aswell play a midget in goal and a keeper up top.

 

[Grande]

Had ashot on target cleared on the line, put the ball on the feet of Sesko on front of the goal and Sesko shot direcly at the goalkeeper, finally scored a goal and prevent the team from losing is indeed terrible and you need to go the specs.

I don’t agree. It’s possible to score a goal, almost make an assist and miss a chance in the box and still have a generally terrible game, IMO. I’m happy he wasn’t taken off like I thought he would be when Mazraoui came on, firstly because Yoro and Mazraoui on left side of defence doesn’t look the right move when we need a goal desperately. But he was so below his own par today all the way up until the goal. Stand-offish in the press, playing it anxiously safe all day in attack, a few wasteful/weak shots In good position, going to ground easily with no result, and pushed away like lice by a not that powerful player for their first goal. It’s pretty bad drop in performance. Doesn’t mean he didn’t do a few good things, and the best saved our bacon. A wonderful volley strike. But I don’t think the other poster needs specs.

 

[leontas]

Didn’t watch the game but frustrating that we didn’t continue our momentum. The goals we conceded seemed preventable with some better defending, particularly from Dalot. Disappointed.

 

[Grande]

Look, we had an off day, but all of this is improvement. We drew a game we would’ve capitulated and lost 3 or 4-1 in last year. It was actually a similar game to Brentford but unfortunately they have an extremely clinical forward. Forest’s is on the sidelines..

Step backwards ahead of a big game against Spurs, but praying we don’t play Dalot any more. It’s mad Amorim is so eager to rotate the starting 11 when he doesn’t need to, but refuses to play a different formation - a 4-3-3 would’ve worked extremely well today against that wide Forest team, always seeking to cross and start attacks from the wing.

I don’t think 3-4-3 is the issue today, because it’s easily 5-4-1 when we defend, and wouldn’t be an issue is we played like we dis against Sunderland, Pool and Brighton. The issue is when Dalot and Diallo don’t move into the right spaces nor pressure tight enough, and that filters through onto Cunha/Mbeumo and Shaw/Yoro. 90% of their joy was from Amad and Diogo not really being there. I don’t know if that is confused instructions, Forest fighting like heck on a manager bounce, or one green defender and one who forgot how to play football messing up.

In Dalot’s case I suspect he took it to heart when Ruben mentioned how many of today’s players don’t watch that much football - he spends most of the time on the pitch these days just standing still and watching.

 

[Parma Dewol]

Just seen the last-minute clearance off the line. so unfortunate, just a little higher, or a deflection along the way, and oh the scenes. Would have been the perfect continuation of recent momentum. Wasn’t to be.

 

[Chairman Steve]

We’re two centre mids and a left wing back away from being where we want to be.

Dalot is becoming an infuriating weak link for us.

 

[AkaAkuma]

I think we played well in the first half and showed skill in beating their press intelligently. That came from work on the training ground and team confidence. People hark on about seeing progress on the pitch and seeing signs of a system - that would be it.

Forest were a very good team who play hard and fast.
Hudson Odoi, Murillo, Williams wouldnt look out of place in our team.
Milenkovic, Gibbs-White, Anderson were also good, but wouldnt swap either in that game.
Ndoye and Savona showed competence.
Yates looked game raising and their crowd were the 12th man.

The only player who didnt impress was sels.

 

[Vidooq]

Sesko got cut out of the game in the second half completely. This is where I assumed that Amorim will make a change.

We lost composure, and got brutally punished. If you look at the table, in the top 7 teams, United has conceived 17 goals. Sunderland has 7. Totenham has 8.

You won't be able to always outscore your opponent. We need to be able to maintain control and rhythm. And when we don't, as it will happen in matches, don't concede 2 goals in 2 minutes. FFS.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

It’s not the worst of points against a major new manager bounce club in their own back yard. We’d have definitely lost this game last season. We were so close to winning the game if Amad’s 94th min shot goes a yard either side of where he struck it.

If Shaw can remain fit, big if, I’d move him to LWB to give Cunha some support and bring in Martinez to the LCB position. That must be an upgrade in that part of the pitch where we’re currently non existent as an attacking threat.

 

[RedStarUnited]

People said last week the subs were to blame for our collapse, and I said no…..mentality was to blame. This week we made no subs and it was the same issue. Mentality. Just a lack of intensity for long periods of the game and when that happens we concede in droves.

The team ethic to defending is appalling when we aren’t chasing the game or going for the jugular. This system is not compact by nature. So it relies on an aggressive mentality to implement well. When that’s lacking we leak goals. As was evident again today.

This times 1000. We are a very reactive team defensively instead of being proactive.

When the opposition pass to their wingers for example, our full backs usually stand off someone and wait to react to them. Which inevitably leads to loads of crosses and dangerous situations against us. Compare that to for example Arsenal, whos defenders and team in general are proactive in their defending. Its night and day.

Also the back 5 struggle with communication. Too many times the wing back I feel are too sucked in the middle and leave space out-wide where they should be.

 

[peller]

Our midfield was run through often, difficult to say they were good.

Stats say otherwise.

 

[justsomebloke]

How on earth were Mount and Zirkzee not subbed on for Cunha and Sesko, or even Mbuemo? Instead we get the diabolical Mazza and the ineffective Dorgu.

Very poor from Amorim in a very winnable match

What, you think Zirkzee would have improved things?

 

[peller]

Conceded 2 very preventable goals again. Sigh...

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

When Martinez returns, Shaw should return to LWB, which would be a significant improvement at that position.

And with the one game a week, he could maybe pull it off staying healthy.

I've given Shaw a hard time, i thought deserved earlier this season, but he's been very good of late.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Dyche always plays this like the world cup final. He's a Scouse loving gravel eating bellend.

When they play Liverpool he may aswell play a midget in goal and a keeper up top.

That should go on a T shirt or banner at OT.

 

[Hammondo]

Stats say otherwise.

Which ones?

 

[AkaAkuma]

Think Hudson Odoi should be a name in the mix for LWB role and rotation with Cunha.

He might have a release clause due to recent contract.

 

[Tallis]

My three takeways:

1. Wrong tactics - I felt tactics were wrong. We were trying to play long ball > Win second ball which we played against Liverpool. That played into their because they are a physical side with players that compete very well aerially and play more compact. This was a game where we could have tried to play more through our MF and build-up from the back. I said in the pre-match thread that I felt this was a game to start Mount over Sesko and I still feel that may have worked better.

2. Some players lacked intensity - Dalot looked tired. Yoro looked physically weak.

3. Defensive mistakes - I think its a myth that our defense is "ok". Our defense crumbles when they are under pressure and the opposition is putting some good crosses into the box. I can see why Amorim tries to start Maguire when he can.

 

[gajender]

My three takeways:

1. Wrong tactics - I felt tactics were wrong. We were trying to play long ball > Win second ball which we played against Liverpool. That played into their because they are a physical side with players that compete very well aerially and play more compact. This was a game where we could have tried to play more through our MF and build-up from the back. I said in the pre-match thread that I felt this was a game to start Mount over Sesko and I still feel that may have worked better.

2. Some players lacked intensity - Dalot looked tired. Yoro looked physically weak.

3. Defensive mistakes - I think its a myth that our defense is "ok". Our defense crumbles when they are under pressure and the opposition is putting some good crosses into the box. I can see why Amorim tries to start Maguire when he can.

Our defense is equally shit if not more with Maguire in it , it's not fixed it needs fixing along with midfield .

 

[Tallis]

Our defense is equally shit if not more with Maguire in it , it's not fixed it needs fixing along with midfield .

Maguire has his issues but is better at dealing with crosses coming into the box and more capable of having physical battles with forwards.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

Would have been a nice confidence booster if we went 2nd even if momentarily.. Missed opportunity to build on the good form.. We should have played better, thankfully we didn’t lose, and I’ll take the point.

 

[foolsgold]

Last year, we 100% lose that.We're going to have bumps along the way. Take the point and move on.