Until that challenge though, it didn't even remotely look like Fred was getting sent off, so I'm not so sure. Hindsight is 20/20. He only could have brought Matic on probably anyway, which I'm not sure would have been the right move.“Probably” should have taken Fred off?
feck a goat it was so obvious the ref would try to make up for his shocking 1st half decision. Don’t give him the chance. Anyone with half a brain could work that one out.
Yes we were generally the better team but I’m increasingly coming to the opinion that we should get rid of martial. CavanI is what a proper no9 looks like. He’s 33 and he probably ran twice as far as martial today.
I really like Rashford on the Right when a proper 9 like cavani playsFrom the right side too, which is really good for us. At this point, I would rather start the rotation of Greenwood up front than stick with Martial or Rashford. We know he's our future no.9 and we will need him to be ready when Cavani goes.
Greenwood already has really good touches on the ball, good balance, control and decent pace. He has go to moves too. He simply needs to learn to use his head more and movements that both link and anticipate goals. In two years, that is a small amount of things to learn and due to his steady and consistent improvements in his game, I think it will happen.
Yes was anything but boring at leastPoor finishing and poor management cost us but entertaining nonetheless
Really?Until that challenge though, it didn't even remotely look like Fred was getting sent off, so I'm not so sure.
Yeah, probably true. Forgot about that one. Was just thinking the second half.Really?
He maybe could/should have gone in the 1st half when he trod on parades foot.
He was 100% guaranteed to see red in that game.
Bollocks to all this “calculated risk” crap. Yes he’s been playing well but it’s not like we would be losing peak Roy Keane in there.
It’s criminally naive, end of.
EDIT also could have brought vdb on so not wholly reliant on matic
I do too. Rashford's biggest probem for me is his decision making. Cutting inside forces him to have to be creative in his off the ball movement and in the way he dribbles to get central. A player like Neymar consistently has an arsenal of skills he can use to get in those central zones when he wants to. Messi's dribbling is so tight and his creativity both on and off the ball are so high that he can find himself in the zones he wants to be in. Rashford is an average dribbler, its his pace and aggression that make his runs deadly. When he's on the left, he usually has to wait for a defensive error to occur to gain a quick step on a defender because his dribbling and creativity in that role isn't strong enough; however on the right, due to playing on his right foot, he doesn't have to work at a disadvantage with his first touch or controlling the ball. It gives him the ability to accelerate before a defender can close him down, as he is on his stronger foot. So even when he wants to go central, he already has a head start over his defender.I really like Rashford on the Right when a proper 9 like cavani plays
I agree the Istanbul game was worse but doesn’t excuse ole hamstringing us in this one..Yeah, probably true. Forgot about that one. Was just thinking the second half.
I think against PSG he doesn't fancy not having two defensive minded CMs, especially when we weren't playing a back 3, I'm not sure VDB would have worked.
Still, I think it's swings and roundabouts. I didn't expect us to get a point in Paris and a couple of mistakes has cost us a draw - possibly the win. When we look back at the group, it won't be this we point to. It will be the Istanbul game.
True, you're right. I did say to my dad at HT he should be off and I thought he would be. As the half went on and we grew into the game, I thought Ole had made the right call - then when we conceded it all just went to shit. There's probably a better argument for changing it immediately then, rather than HT, as he knew we'd be chasing the game at that point.I agree the Istanbul game was worse but doesn’t excuse ole hamstringing us in this one..
I’m not blaming Fred as we all know what he is like. He doesn’t have the self control to pull out of that challenge like 99% of players on a yellow would.
Yes his second yellow wasn’t even a foul but when a ref knows he’s dropped a bollock beforehand you can guarantee he’ll find a way to make up for it later.
Ball hit bar. Team lose shape and discipline. Team concede goal. What in your opinions is the managers job duties?What are you on about mate haha
100% agree. Would have less priority than League Cup for me.Tough result to stomach obviously, but when you don’t finish your chances along with going down to 10 men, there isn’t much else to expect.
I may get stick for saying this, but if we manage to finish 3rd and drop into the Europa League, I’m not too sold on taking it seriously this season.
With the fixture congestion it might bring, I don’t think our squad has the capacity to manage it.
Rather we focus on the league and go for it, as unpredictable as it has been thus far, managing the schedule to prioritize the league might be our best option.
That being said, feck that, let’s go and beat Leipzig.
I mean scholes literally said at half time Fred got away with murder and should now come off for VdB. I was staggered that he didn't. No hindsight required.Until that challenge though, it didn't even remotely look like Fred was getting sent off, so I'm not so sure. Hindsight is 20/20. He only could have brought Matic on probably anyway, which I'm not sure would have been the right move.
OK, so you've basically just decided that we don't have a system, so if we play well, it's got to be due to "individual talent". And you think we're playing a low block because we have two central midfielders, and that we could have dominated PSG if only the manager wasn't too cowardly.Pros. Our team is actually very good. Despite being set up to counter, despite there being no connection between Bruno and a CM behind him, we actually played well due to our individual talent. I can only dream of what we’ll do when
1) Ole develops a proper system/style of play
2) Ole realises we have the players to dominate most matches and don’t have to play a low block vs PSG with two holding CM’s
I disagree. It didn't look to me like a head butt motion. Paredes put his forehead rather aggressively against his, and Fred basically swiped his head away sideways. More a movement away from Paredes than at him.Ive never seen such an obvious red card in my life. I was genuinely angry, baffled and shocked to see Fred still out there on 46 minutes.
A player aggressively produces a head butt motion and gets a yellow, is on borrowed time. A good tackle was deemed a 2nd yellow. That’s how obvious it was.
DVB on at half time secures 11 v 11 for 90 mins.
Risk v opportunity completely misjudged
Yeah thinking about it, that seems to be most likely scenario.There was nothing wrong with Fred's (2nd yellow) tackle.
The issue I think was that the referee knew he messed up by not sending Fred off in the first half, so the first opportunity the referee got, he gave him a 2nd yellow.
Yeah it's not hard to lose faith in Tony as he has had more than enough chances in his five years here. He cannot be disappointed that Edinson has taken the no 9 role because has proved himself.“Probably” should have taken Fred off?
feck a goat it was so obvious the ref would try to make up for his shocking 1st half decision. Don’t give him the chance. Anyone with half a brain could work that one out.
Yes we were generally the better team but I’m increasingly coming to the opinion that we should get rid of martial. CavanI is what a proper no9 looks like. He’s 33 and he probably ran twice as far as martial today.
Yeah tonight showed we are not ruthless enough in the big moments when we are in the ascendancy during gamesWe lack that killer instinct and it was always going to catch up with us eventually. Tonight was the night.
Good post but disagree on Fred being any kind of a driving force. In fact even with 10 men the team continued to play decently without him. He should have been taken off. We wouldn't have collapsed without him. There's a reason the conventional wisdom in that situation says you always take the player off. That reason is multiplied when you factor in the fact that he would have to defend a full hour with the likes of Neymar and Mbappe running at him. Basic risk assessment makes it a no-brainer to take the player off. You stand more to lose versus what you have to gain. You can survive a substitution but not a sending off. It was a bad betLet's keep some perspective here - this was a very good and essentially even game between two very good teams. Could have gone either way, but this time it was us drawing the shortest straw. Don't really feel bad about it - we've had wins I've felt worse about.
I kind of sympathise with the decision to keep Fred on. He'd had an excellent game, both defensively and offensively, and was really the driving force of the team. That's something you want to see in this team, and which we've not always had.
Two clear negatives: One was obviously Martials finishing. Overall his offensive contributions were better and more numerous than you'd expect with him playing on the wing, but he just doesn't score. He is obviously now in that classic striker dead zone where the non-scoring has become a thing in itself. The other was wobbly defense in the first half , where they did far too much backing into the box, and on several occasion struggled with marking and shape. For once I thought the central pairing was better than the full backs, with also some good offensive contributions from both Maguire and Lindelof. Telles in particular were again caught too far in-field on a few occasions, including on PSG first goal.
But otherwise, this was a good performance. Fred and McTominay were both excellent, McTominay especially defensively in the second half. We created quite a lot of good offensive play, Cavani moving relentlessly and well and Rashford creating lots down the right flank, though he took some time to get going. And it was a team effort, in fact one of the better attacking performances they've delivered this season. Except for the finishing. Bruno less good than usual though. And that shot from Pogba - what a goal that would have been.
Good performance, and losing to PSG is nothing to be ashamed about. Hope they build off the positives here for the West Ham game.
Great post, v accurateI do too. Rashford's biggest probem for me is his decision making. Cutting inside forces him to have to be creative in his off the ball movement and in the way he dribbles to get central. A player like Neymar consistently has an arsenal of skills he can use to get in those central zones when he wants to. Messi's dribbling is so tight and his creativity both on and off the ball are so high that he can find himself in the zones he wants to be in. Rashford is an average dribbler, its his pace and aggression that make his runs deadly. When he's on the left, he usually has to wait for a defensive error to occur to gain a quick step on a defender because his dribbling and creativity in that role isn't strong enough; however on the right, due to playing on his right foot, he doesn't have to work at a disadvantage with his first touch or controlling the ball. It gives him the ability to accelerate before a defender can close him down, as he is on his stronger foot. So even when he wants to go central, he already has a head start over his defender.
Cutting inside as a wide player for me has always been more important for players who are good passers ( Ronaldinho, Neymar, Di Maria, Ribery, Messi) or having top level finishers ( Ronaldo, Salah, Robben). For most players, I don't actually think it's as useful, as the creativity both on and off the ball to get into those positions can cause less creative players to be anonymous in a lot of games.
I agree, no manager expects his players to pick up red cards and they hope the players are intelligent enough to keep out of trouble. Fred has been playing well and has contributed to our recent run so Ole no doubt hoped he would continue to do so. The ref was fooled and Fred had to go. No manager can wipe his players bums every minute of every match, they have to learn to look out for themselves and not to get embroiled in the histrionics of the opposition. The same goes for Martial, Ole cant go on the pitch and score goals for him, though if the Ole of old had been playing he would have certainly scored where Martial couldnt! Its time to "rest" Martial who is still far too inconsistent and give Cavani a good run in his place. A draw against Leipzig is a big challenge but it can be done if the players all get their fingers out of their bums and put in a good, solid performance.Let's keep some perspective here - this was a very good and essentially even game between two very good teams. Could have gone either way, but this time it was us drawing the shortest straw. Don't really feel bad about it - we've had wins I've felt worse about.
I kind of sympathise with the decision to keep Fred on. He'd had an excellent game, both defensively and offensively, and was really the driving force of the team. That's something you want to see in this team, and which we've not always had.
Two clear negatives: One was obviously Martials finishing. Overall his offensive contributions were better and more numerous than you'd expect with him playing on the wing, but he just doesn't score. He is obviously now in that classic striker dead zone where the non-scoring has become a thing in itself. The other was wobbly defense in the first half , where they did far too much backing into the box, and on several occasion struggled with marking and shape. For once I thought the central pairing was better than the full backs, with also some good offensive contributions from both Maguire and Lindelof. Telles in particular were again caught too far in-field on a few occasions, including on PSG first goal.
But otherwise, this was a good performance. Fred and McTominay were both excellent, McTominay especially defensively in the second half. We created quite a lot of good offensive play, Cavani moving relentlessly and well and Rashford creating lots down the right flank, though he took some time to get going. And it was a team effort, in fact one of the better attacking performances they've delivered this season. Except for the finishing. Bruno less good than usual though. And that shot from Pogba - what a goal that would have been.
Good performance, and losing to PSG is nothing to be ashamed about. Hope they build off the positives here for the West Ham game.
Sorry but that one is on Ole. We all said Fred should have been subbed at half time. It was a red card waiting to happen. Irrelevant score line after we went 2-1 down, always chasing the game. Lsts just move on.
Very weird game.
Can’t understand why ref didn’t send off Fred for headbutt
Can’t understand why OGS didn’t take Fred off and replace with Matic or Donny. Ole dropped a big ball there.
2nd yellow on Fred was unfortunate.
Martial misses a complete sitter. Cavani should also have nailed his chip.
very frustrating loss as PSG aren’t great and were beatable.
We had them against the ropes. Controlled the game. I see this as the following SQUAD and MANAGEMENT mistakes:Have to disagree.
Thought we played ok in patches against one of Europe's biggest bottle jobs. There for the taking, some great forward I grant you but an average team in average league we should be beating them.
Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory with poor management. Take Fred, off ride out the game and come away with a scrappy draw. This kind of poor management invites pressure now. He shouldn't risk big name players now against West Ham so we can goto Germany in decent nick. He maybe forced to now though. If we lose to Leipzig the only real route back into the Champions League next season will be via Automatic Qualification.
No doubt them c**nts from West Ham will play like Prime 70's Brazil on Saturday night.
Add one more: Magurie. With Fred running around like a bull in a china shop, our captain should have done "something" to get him back in line.This defeat is on three guys tonight. Martial for two shocking misses and a generally lifeless display, Fred for sheer stupidity in the first half, which led to the ref looking to make up for his mistake in not issuing a red card, Solskjaer for not subbing Fred at half time or earlier, when it was obvious to everyone that he was going to pick up a red card this evening.
Yeah was one of our better performances but there are no points awarded for good effortSay whatever you want, because Martial shit the bed and Fred 100% should have been replaced before his red, but this is the first time I can remember since SAF left that a played a top European side and absolutely dominated the game. Both in possession and pressing wise, we looked the better side pretty much the entire game, which hasn't happened against the bigger clubs. Most of the time we've been the team sitting back and countering top teams, which is where we are comfortable. But we went directly at PSG, and were we not wasteful we probably put 3-5 past them.
Shit result, but I was really pleased with the majority of the team. Martial and Bruno were the only two players I watched and thought were poor, and Martial was mainly due to his finishing. Fred I thought was actually okay apart from his recklessness that got him sent off. Defense did about as well as you can hope for who we have and how aggressive we were in our gameplay.
Daniele Orsato