[Sparky_Hughes]

Excellent professional performance to put the tie to bed and give us a little breathing room. More of the same against newcastle please.

3 minutes of sloppiness cost us a place in the UCL second stage. It’s cost us valuable points in the PL that is now seeing City stroll to the title.

We need to admit that the defence is a weak point in our squad. Whether it’s 3 or 15 minutes, we give teams opportunities to attack and score through an inability to concentrate,control and see out games. There was another example last night when at a RS free kick, Maguire dropped off the line just as he did against Everton. We just never learn

DDG being a massive wetwipe cost us a place in the UCL second stage to be more precise.

 

[Jeffthered]

We're a confidence team, so this result and performance helps, a lot.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Excellent professional performance to put the tie to bed and give us a little breathing room. More of the same against newcastle please.


DDG being a massive wetwipe cost us a place in the UCL second stage to be more precise.

He’s part of the defence. I count it as a back 5 including the keeper

 

[Inigo Montoya]

It's unrealistic to not concede a single chance against top opposition. Of course opponents will get a chance or two every game, even more mediocre opposition usually will, both against us and against City. Expecting different is simply unrealistic. Against WBA the main problem wasn't conceding a goal, it was our total inability to create anything for the 90 minutes following the goal. Hence the endless "we can't break down low block teams" discussions.

I think we were solid yesterday. We kept a clean sheet to prove it. You disagree, and that's fair, but in my opinion very harsh.

I'm not saying the defense isn't a problem in general, just to be clear. But it certainly wasn't a problem yesterday.

You’re hoisted by your own petard there. Unrealistic against top opposition yes, fair enough, however WBA, Everton and Sheffield Utd aren’t nor would I put Istanbul Basaksehir in that bracket.
I’m not being harsh just realistic. We’re not quite the sum of our parts; capable of world class performances but National League level brain farts. The frustration for me is that I know we can produce the former but biting my nails hoping I don’t see the latter

 

[Skåre Willoch]

You’re hoisted by your own petard there. Unrealistic against top opposition yes, fair enough, however WBA, Everton and Sheffield Utd aren’t nor would I put Istanbul Basaksehir in that bracket.
I’m not being harsh just realistic. We’re not quite the sum of our parts; capable of world class performances but National League level brain farts. The frustration for me is that I know we can produce the former but biting my nails hoping I don’t see the latter

This is the post match thread after Real Sociedad. A game where we kept a clean sheet, and produced enough to win by 7, and won by 4. Away from home. Against a spanish side, which we haven't beat in 9 games before this.

It's alright to complain about our defense in general, but I think it's very harsh to complain about our defense in the game that happened yesterday, the game this entire thread is about. Which is my point.

And yes, I do think it's unrealistic to not concede a single chance against almost any side in the PL, CL or EL.
That goes for WBA, Everton, Sheffield Utd or Istanbul Basaksehir.
These are all professional football teams, being either in the top 10 or 20 teams in England, or playing in the Champions League or Europa League. They're not sunday league sides, they're top teams by definition. They are bound to create something, both against us, or against City, or against Bayern Munich. It happens. It's football.

Should we improve defensively? Yes.
Should we stop conceding stupid goals, either due to tactical naivity, or individual blunders? For sure.
Can we reasonably expect to not concede chances at all to teams PL, CL or EL in general? No chance.

We kept a clean sheet away from home in the knockout stage in Europe yesterday, while scoring 4. Happy day!

 

[RooneyLegend]

That has to be the worst defence we've faced all season. They are all so slow they made Bruno look like Tyreke Hill. Wouldn't take either of them on a free. Wonder why Spanish teams subject themselves to that level of ineptitude.

 

[mitchmouse]

It was a really enjoyable game to watch - and therein lies part of the truth: Sociedad dug their own grave with a high line/press which played into our hands. If they'd sat back and defended deep, would we have see our usual problems? I'm guessing the answer would have been "yes".

But as they say, you can only play what's in front of you and we tore them to shreds for much of the game. True, we should have been one day inside about 90 seconds but we weren't. And - something we don't do often enough - having gone ahead, we went for the throat.

We also say exactly what's good and bad about Rashford. He can finish more difficult chances, and looks so much more likely to do so when come in off the left but 1-on-1 when he bears straight down on the keeper, he's as likely to score as I am! No one can persuade me that Halaand wouldn't have scored at least three last night. Nonetheless, and I had to agree with Savage, he made lots of good runs all night. Not as clever a Cavani yet, but let's hope he is learning.

Other great performances: Bruno, of course, Fred (excellent) and Scotty McT (very good). After early howlers (where CL teams would have scored), Maguire and Bailly looked ok, as did the full backs, and James had his best game in I don't know how long.

Martial did almost as little as usual and it was a shame we pretty much never got the ball to Dialo so we could see what he is like but all in all, we must be through to the next round - and hopefully a few youngsters will get a chance next week (although it wouldn't surprise me if we gave them an early goal!

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

He’s part of the defence. I count it as a back 5 including the keeper

As a general point yes I agree but you cant assign a mistake to the whole defence when its entirely down to one member chickening out at the worst possible moment, thats entirely on Calamity Dave.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Excellent professional performance to put the tie to bed and give us a little breathing room. More of the same against newcastle please.


DDG being a massive wetwipe cost us a place in the UCL second stage to be more precise.

It sucks. I truly think we could have a fun CL run. Oh well. Hopefully the youngins get a lot of Europe play. Ole better focus on the Prem.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

It sucks. I truly think we could have a fun CL run. Oh well. Hopefully the youngins get a lot of Europe play. Ole better focus on the Prem.

Until we fix the defence we won’t be having fun in the UCL

 

[Gator Nate]

OK, now that I've had a night to digest things... My takes:

This was just another example that Maguire/Bailly is better than Maguire/Lindelof. Maguire gets much more involved in the attack and that is both fun and funny to watch. No one on defense knows what to do because it's so unexpected. And he looks so awkward doing it, but appearances can be deceiving. Now, the question will always be, can Bailly stay healthy? We need another in his mold, regardless, but either as good or better, and our defensive woes should be stemmed.

Telles is probably our best backup, but he's still a backup. Shaw is the man, but Ole can conserve him and keep him healthy through the remainder of the campaign because of Telles.

AWB seemed strangely quiet yesterday. He put in a shift, but... He actually drew a yellow. In a game that didn't have much called. Strange... I still want him on the field at every kickoff.

McFred are better than the sum of their parts. Say what you want about all our midfield players, but McTominay/Fred are the most functional pairing. They understand and work around each other and Bruno. Every other pairing gets in each others' way at some point.

Henderson-now is better at every aspect of goalkeeping than DeGea-now, with the possible exception of on-the-line shot stopping. And I'm not even sure about that last bit. But Dean will come out and take command, shout direction to the defense, and distribute the ball in ways that DeGea simply does not do. Today is today, and DeGea is yesterday. It's time, transfer fees and weekly wages be damned.

James is a weapon in the right circumstances and yesterday was one of those. People use the phrase "speed merchant" and "flat track bully" as epithets, but Dan is used by Ole to keep the defensive line off guard. Greenwood wasn't afraid to work with him, either.

Rashford is still class, even when not scoring goals. I do think he makes poor decisions in the 18-yard box, but his speed, footwork, and vision outside the box help move this team forward.

And then there's Bruno. We all know how good he is. And he was not happy to be taken off the field.

Ole nailed it, no two ways about it. I don't get any complaints about his substitutions yesterday. I know a lot of folks want to see Diallo, but you should know by now that Ole's not going to throw any new player out for long at first. He just doesn't. Anyway, he put out a side that wasn't our strongest (close, though!), but played the advantages he had against RS and it worked extremely well. Shaw, Lindelof, Martial and Cavani are rested, VdB is... nevermind... And now he can play a much weaker side next week and be ready for the trip to Chelsea in a week and a half.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Great performance. They had some half-chances but not enough quality to finish them off clinically. Our forwards were too quick for them. Januzaj looked prettty good. He's got a good foot and crossed some nice balls in. Good game from Henderson but not really worked enough to say he should be our keeper going forward. Maybe enough to try it though hehe.

 

[groovyalbert]

We're a confidence team, so this result and performance helps, a lot.

We've drawn both EPL games since beating Southampton 9-0...

 

[USREDEVIL]

The real question is: Should we go full "team B" (more or less) on the second fixture? We're up 4-0 and they don't look particularly dangerous.

Henderson
Williams Tuanzebe Lindelof Telles
Matic
Fred McTominay
VDB
Diallo Greenwood

This would rest: Bruno, Maguire (finally!), Rashford, Bailly, Shaw and Pogba (assuming he's fit)

 

[Berbasbullet]

The real question is: Should we go full "team B" (more or less) on the second fixture? We're up 4-0 and they don't look particularly dangerous.

Henderson
Williams Tuanzebe Lindelof Telles
Matic
Fred McTominay
VDB
Diallo Greenwood

This would rest: Bruno, Maguire (finally!), Rashford, Bailly, Shaw and Pogba (assuming he's fit)

Take out Fred and put James in.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Take out Fred and put James in.

OK

Henderson
Williams Tuanzebe Lindelof Telles
Matic
VDB McTominay
Diallo Greenwood James

 

[Plant0x84]

Obviously you only read the score line but not watching the game.

If you switched on your TV 3 min late, then yes we would have been impressive. But scoreline could easily be 2-1 after 3 MIN!

Before Bruno was gifted a Liverpooler, I recall Rashford missed 3 chances 10y in front of goal, so it could easily be 2-3 in our favour.

In short, it was another typical MU night, sloppy at the back, wasteful in front, but luckily they were not Seville or Leipzig or any better team, so we were given time to settle until a Liverpooler gift that open the scoresheet.

Obviously? I’ll politely request you shove that up your anus, you have no idea what I was doing.

As for the game I think it’s was up there with the Everton game in terms of performance. We played very well, and you’re correct we could (not should!) have a few more, but we kept a clean sheet and scored 4. Is that not enough? I’m certainly satisfied.

One mans ‘wasteful in front of goal’ is another mans creating plenty of chances. Guess my glass is half full......

Seems you’ve upset plenty in this thread already. Maybe you should think before you post.

 

[Berbasbullet]

OK

Henderson
Williams Tuanzebe Lindelof Telles
Matic
VDB McTominay
Diallo Greenwood James

Beautiful

 

[tjb]

OK, now that I've had a night to digest things... My takes:

This was just another example that Maguire/Bailly is better than Maguire/Lindelof. Maguire gets much more involved in the attack and that is both fun and funny to watch. No one on defense knows what to do because it's so unexpected. And he looks so awkward doing it, but appearances can be deceiving. Now, the question will always be, can Bailly stay healthy? We need another in his mold, regardless, but either as good or better, and our defensive woes should be stemmed.

Telles is probably our best backup, but he's still a backup. Shaw is the man, but Ole can conserve him and keep him healthy through the remainder of the campaign because of Telles.

AWB seemed strangely quiet yesterday. He put in a shift, but... He actually drew a yellow. In a game that didn't have much called. Strange... I still want him on the field at every kickoff.

McFred are better than the sum of their parts. Say what you want about all our midfield players, but McTominay/Fred are the most functional pairing. They understand and work around each other and Bruno. Every other pairing gets in each others' way at some point.

Henderson-now is better at every aspect of goalkeeping than DeGea-now, with the possible exception of on-the-line shot stopping. And I'm not even sure about that last bit. But Dean will come out and take command, shout direction to the defense, and distribute the ball in ways that DeGea simply does not do. Today is today, and DeGea is yesterday. It's time, transfer fees and weekly wages be damned.

James is a weapon in the right circumstances and yesterday was one of those. People use the phrase "speed merchant" and "flat track bully" as epithets, but Dan is used by Ole to keep the defensive line off guard. Greenwood wasn't afraid to work with him, either.

Rashford is still class, even when not scoring goals. I do think he makes poor decisions in the 18-yard box, but his speed, footwork, and vision outside the box help move this team forward.

And then there's Bruno. We all know how good he is. And he was not happy to be taken off the field.

Ole nailed it, no two ways about it. I don't get any complaints about his substitutions yesterday. I know a lot of folks want to see Diallo, but you should know by now that Ole's not going to throw any new player out for long at first. He just doesn't. Anyway, he put out a side that wasn't our strongest (close, though!), but played the advantages he had against RS and it worked extremely well. Shaw, Lindelof, Martial and Cavani are rested, VdB is... nevermind... And now he can play a much weaker side next week and be ready for the trip to Chelsea in a week and a half.

I think that tells you how good AWB is as a defender. The fact that he barely draws yellows despite getting in so many tackles. I just wish our fans weren't so offensively focused that they could see we have a potentially all time great defender on our hands who we just need to get the poor lapses of concentration out of.

 

[Hughie77]

Cant understand some people on here, it was a great away win in Europe, against a Team most thought would beat us including myself. The first 2 mins it looked like it would, but it didn't it was a stroll in the park really in European games, but some still want to pick out 2 mins of bad points, not the 93 mins of total control of a European away game , this hopefully has given the lads a bit more confidence going into the next fixtures. You just cannot please some people no matter how we play.

 

[always_hoping]

For the 2nd leg I'd reckon the starting 11 will be.

Henderson
Williams Bailly Maguire Telles
De Beek Matic
Mata
James Greenwood
Martial

Diallo to get 30 or 45 minutes of action instead of 10 minutes.

 

[cyril C]

Feck off with that condescending tone. Read my post properly, or shut up.

I literally said we were solid after the first 3 minutes. Then you try to create something of nothing by following up with "After that scary 3min we were much better composed at the back". Which is LITERALLY what I just said.

Get your shite together, read my posts properly, then let's talk.

Well, if EPL is like a golf game with your pal, that you can have mulligan, that you can shit, this is not what we have planned, rewind the clock back to 0th min and start it all over again, then yes, we can be a champion for 85min, as long as nobody score in the other 5min.

 

[acnumber9]

DDG being a massive wetwipe cost us a place in the UCL second stage to be more precise.

Losing to a terrible Turkish team cost us a place in the next round to be even more precise.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Well, if EPL is like a golf game with your pal, that you can have mulligan, that you can shit, this is not what we have planned, rewind the clock back to 0th min and start it all over again, then yes, we can be a champion for 85min, as long as nobody score in the other 5min.

Good old fashioned gibberish.

 

[cyril C]

You've got to be on a wind up? Adnan chance was far from easy, hardly vulnerable, slight mistake form Bailly but no real risk. We then should have gone 1-0 up with the easiest chance of the 3 with Rashford. They they had another shot where the angle was against the player and it was an easy save for our keeper because it wasn't an easy chance.

Bailly has been out for God knows how long and perhaps wasn't match sharp, that is all. Other than that it was comfortable with good defending all round.

All teams concede chances during a game.

Now, this is much more civilised and knowledgeable on the match. Januzaj's 1st chance was not easy to score, which I admit, but it was closed, may be 1-2 ball away from the far post. Robben scored a few dozen like this every season, even our Pogba. The other chance was reasonably covered by Henderson as well, but a clear chance was a clear chance. How many times did Salah scored from similar position? And Son from the opposite end? Among the 3, Rashford's chance was the best and should really have been converted, together with 1 other, the near post reaction chance might be difficult, but a top striker like Cavani would have anticipated it.

Am I winding people up - well, it depends. I just can't stand people stating this was the best or 2nd best game of the season, because it wasn't except for 80min or so, and a game is NEVER 80min, it should be 90, or 95min, as hard lesson are learnt.

Comparatively speaking, I would much prefer the Leizip 1st game, that we had a really tight setup, and took advantage of their mistake and punished them. We did not win the group as 1 thread posted BTW.

The message that I wanted to convey, was that 80min-good performance may be good enough against Europa clubs, but not against CL clubs, not even the B-grade Leizip. We still have a long way to go to be great again.

 

[bsCallout]

Now, this is much more civilised and knowledgeable on the match. Januzaj's 1st chance was not easy to score, which I admit, but it was closed, may be 1-2 ball away from the far post. Robben scored a few dozen like this every season, even our Pogba. The other chance was reasonably covered by Henderson as well, but a clear chance was a clear chance. How many times did Salah scored from similar position? And Son from the opposite end? Among the 3, Rashford's chance was the best and should really have been converted, together with 1 other, the near post reaction chance might be difficult, but a top striker like Cavani would have anticipated it.

Am I winding people up - well, it depends. I just can't stand people stating this was the best or 2nd best game of the season, because it wasn't except for 80min or so, and a game is NEVER 80min, it should be 90, or 95min, as hard lesson are learnt.

Comparatively speaking, I would much prefer the Leizip 1st game, that we had a really tight setup, and took advantage of their mistake and punished them. We did not win the group as 1 thread posted BTW.

The message that I wanted to convey, was that 80min-good performance may be good enough against Europa clubs, but not against CL clubs, not even the B-grade Leizip. We still have a long way to go to be great again.

The only issue I take with your point is that realistically it was two brain farts from Bailly who isn't match fit. The performance of the whole team seemed much better.

I don't think it was our best game either but it was up there.

David Silva was played out of the game. We limited them to some crosses that were really well defended by the team and we looked really switched on in the final third. It was a really positive team performance all round.

 

[Bilbo]

Christ. The lengths people will go to to pick holes in a strong 4-0 away win.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Christ. The lengths people will go to to pick holes in a strong 4-0 away win.

just frustration mate. Blowing hot and cold all the time.

Enjoyable win, of course but is it any wonder people are wary of Newcastle doing what Palace, Soton, Shef.U, Everton etc have done on us?

 

[Bilbo]

just frustration mate. Blowing hot and cold all the time.

Enjoyable win, of course but is it any wonder people are wary of Newcastle doing what Palace, Soton, Shef.U, Everton etc have done on us?

Thats football. I look forward more to a game that isn't a foregone conclusion than I would a certain win. Wheres the fun in that?

 

[Glorio]

Does that just mean as a central attacking midfielder?

Ronaldo has turned himself into the complete number 9 since leaving us, but he played mostly as a winger for us in 4-4-2 formations (so not as a wide striker in 4-2-3-1), when he scored 20+ goals in seasons.

When he started putting up outrageous numbers, I think he was playing as a wide forward (sometimes centrally) in a trio with Rooney and Tevez/Berba.

 

[Schmeichel=God]

Not really, at least not yet. Their attack was useless and it still gave us some scary moments. We need to be much more compact defensively to properly progress in the CL.

Jose is that you?...

 

[united_99]

Jose is that you?...

Nah, I prefer 99 style where we would happily take the risk to concede as we would outscore everyone anyway, but more often than not strong defences are required to do well in Europe.

 

[Betson]

I was worried about this tie beforehand , looked like it could be a tricky one.

But a very good display puts the tie to bed already. And gives leeway to rest or give other players a chance in the 2nd leg.

If only we could find other players like Bruno to come and make the impact he has done.

 

[bsCallout]

I was worried about this tie beforehand , looked like it could be a tricky one.

But a very good display puts the tie to bed already. And gives leeway to rest or give other players a chance in the 2nd leg.

If only we could find other players like Bruno to come and make the impact he has done.

Grealish would. I was completely against the signing but he'd transform us against low block teams.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Thats football. I look forward more to a game that isn't a foregone conclusion than I would a certain win. Wheres the fun in that?

unless I’m being whooshed.... you’d have hated Fergie

i think I’d enjoy beating the aforementioned than be sat helplessly watching as Martial stands around with his mouth open and hands on hips and ddg chucking yet another in Etc etc.

ffs

 

[Bertie Wooster]

When he started putting up outrageous numbers, I think he was playing as a wide forward (sometimes centrally) in a trio with Rooney and Tevez/Berba.

Yeah, you could argue that for 2007/8 and 2008/9.

But I'd definitely say Ronaldo was a right winger for 2006/7 when he scored 23 goals. With Giggs / Park on the left and Rooney up front with either Saha, Ole, Smith or Larsson.